Hader trade ideas

[brewcrewdue80]

I'll throw Minnesota as the trade partner. Alex Kiriloff and Jordan Balzovic are 2 top 100 prospects with upside. The Twins are a team that paid Donaldson this offseason, lose Cruz after this season, don't have elite closer now, and are fighting the uprising White Sox not just now, but imminently in the next few seasons and beyond. 1991 was last time they made the WS, the pressure may be on to secure a legit closer.

MLB.com lists Kirilloff as a 1b/OF. Right there he would solve the 1b problem since Fielder. Balzovic had a 129k/25BBs in 93.2IP last season. Seems a certainty to become a Starter, but at worst a guaranteed RP.

[RollieTime]

Lots of name brought up in this thread that I like as bats- Bohm, Vaughn, Larnach especially.

 

Hear me out on this one...

 

Brewers Receive:

OF/1B Alex Kirilloff

OF Trevor Larnach

2B/3B/OF Travis Blankenhorn OR

2B/3B Ildemaro Vargas

C/Util Willians Astudillo (yes please)

 

Twins Receive:

LHP Josh Hader

OF Corey Ray

 

The Brewers receive their first baseman of the future in Kirilloff who can also play the outfield. They get a guy that I am extremely high on in Larnach, who I think will be a multiple time All-Star during his career.

 

The third guy is either prospect Blankenhorn or utility man Ildemaro Vargas. Blankenhorn is in the upper minors and holding his own. The Brewers could use him predominantly as a third baseman and hope that he fills the gap there long term.

 

Vargas would be a cheap utility man that the Brewers could use to take the Perez role. The Brewers also get Astudillo, who is the king of anti three true outcomes. Not only is he a solid hitter, but he can play multiple positions (most notably first and third) and can catch once in a while if he is hot and would become the emergency third string catcher. He’s the man you want at the plate with runners in scoring position and less than 2 outs. You know the ball is going to get hit into play. He’s a great pinch hitting option for those late game situations.

 

The Brewers are starting to show a bunch of promise with guys in their bullpen. This would free up the money Hader is owed, allow us to get cheap controllable talent in Kirilloff and Larnach most notably, with Astudillo and possibly Vargas being the cheap bench bats. This allows us to move on from the likes of Smoak and Sogard in the offseason to allow a ton of financial flexibility to bring in a big bat, someone like Justin Turner on a short deal as a stopgap at third that is still a middle of the order bat.

 

The Twins get Hader and Corey Ray. Hader they get for 4 seasons to make a true run in the playoffs. This also gets Hader out of the NL. Ray is part of the return package to help offset the outfield depth they are losing from Kirilloff and Larnach and would be a guy they can say to their fans was a former top 5 pick to help ease the common fan and is a guy who could be a late bloomer. The Twins get a low risk, high reward prospect thrown into the deal to help even it out.

 

Opening Day 2021 lineup

 

SS Urias

2B Hiura

LF Yelich

3B Turner

1B Kirilloff

DH Braun

C Narvaez

RF Garcia

CF Cain

 

Bench: Astudillo, Vargas, Pina, Free Agent

 

If they decide to let Braun go, they will have the money to bring in another solid everyday bat. I would love to see them bring Braun back on a small one year deal for like $5 million and sign someone like Michael Brantley and I think they would be able to fit that into the payroll pretty easily. Signing Brantley adds a left handed bat to the mix that is a fantastic hitter. Freeing up the money from Sogard, Smoak, and Arcia would get you close to signing Brantley. Holt, Hader, and the extra $6.25 million from Moose, Grandal, and Thames’ contract off the books would pay a good chunk for Turner.

 

This is getting way ahead obviously and the main point is to move Hader to get a couple highly regarded prospects as well as a couple guys to help out now and provide decent production cheaply the next few years instead of needing to overpay for mediocre talent like Smoak and Sogard types in the future.

[sveumrules]

Hader has pitched fewer innings than Eric Lauer, and only has one more appearance than Woodruff. If they’re too dumb to actually use Hader in Milwaukee they might as well get young talent for him.

 

Hader is currently 369th in innings pitched (8.1), but 9th in Win Probability Added (+1.21) for 2020.

 

That tracks pretty well with his career ranks since 2017 where he is 193rd in IP (213), but 6th in WPA (+9.10).

 

To have such an outsized impact on winning games in so few innings seems to indicate A) the nature of his deployment has likely been carefully considered & B) he probably isn't getting traded in the next week.

[Eye Black]

Here is a brief paragraph from Rosenthal's latest article in The Athletic:

 

The Brewers, like most teams, are willing to talk about any player at any time, so it’s no surprise they again are listening on left-handed closer Josh Hader, just as they did at the Winter Meetings. No trade is likely, however. One rival executive says Hader is available, but only at a “bananas price.”

[AKCheesehead]

$2.69/lb seems like a really good deal for one of if not the best active relief pitcher in all of baseball.

[Eye Black]

$2.69/lb seems like a really good deal for one of if not the best active relief pitcher in all of baseball.

Well played.

[reillymcshane]

Here is a brief paragraph from Rosenthal's latest article in The Athletic:

 

The Brewers, like most teams, are willing to talk about any player at any time, so it’s no surprise they again are listening on left-handed closer Josh Hader, just as they did at the Winter Meetings. No trade is likely, however. One rival executive says Hader is available, but only at a “bananas price.”

To me, this is how it should be.

 

Hader is an awesome player, and can be really important for years for this club. Thus, it means we need a 'bananas' offer if we are going to move him. If not, no big deal. Just enjoy having him.

[wibadgers23]

So what would a "bananas" offer look like that is also reasonable?

[Madhawk23]

So what would a "bananas" offer look like that is also reasonable?

 

Yeah, I'd love to know what we're asking for that would be called "Bananas?" As others have stated though, I'm happy to hear that DS has a very high asking price for Hader. He's been the best reliever in baseball for two years running now, and thus far at least - he's putting up even better numbers (maybe not as high of a K rate though) here in 2020. Ask for the moon and hope that some team get desperate enough to give you close to that "bananas" asking price. If not, we hold onto him and maybe we'll get a desperate offer this winter or next summer at the deadline?

[Devinep]

Hader has pitched fewer innings than Eric Lauer, and only has one more appearance than Woodruff. If they’re too dumb to actually use Hader in Milwaukee they might as well get young talent for him.

 

Hader is currently 369th in innings pitched (8.1), but 9th in Win Probability Added (+1.21) for 2020.

 

That tracks pretty well with his career ranks since 2017 where he is 193rd in IP (213), but 6th in WPA (+9.10).

 

To have such an outsized impact on winning games in so few innings seems to indicate A) the nature of his deployment has likely been carefully considered & B) he probably isn't getting traded in the next week.

 

Right, which shows just how ridiculous it is to not use him while just watching the team blow leads while your best pitcher sits in the bullpen except for like once a week

[sveumrules]

Hader has pitched fewer innings than Eric Lauer, and only has one more appearance than Woodruff. If they’re too dumb to actually use Hader in Milwaukee they might as well get young talent for him.

 

Hader is currently 369th in innings pitched (8.1), but 9th in Win Probability Added (+1.21) for 2020.

 

That tracks pretty well with his career ranks since 2017 where he is 193rd in IP (213), but 6th in WPA (+9.10).

 

To have such an outsized impact on winning games in so few innings seems to indicate A) the nature of his deployment has likely been carefully considered & B) he probably isn't getting traded in the next week.

 

Right, which shows just how ridiculous it is to not use him while just watching the team blow leads while your best pitcher sits in the bullpen except for like once a week

 

Which games would you have used him in that the Brewers didn't?

[Devinep]

[quote="sveumrules"

 

Which games would you have used him in that the Brewers didn't?

 

The first one that immediately comes to mind is the last one in Pit, when he was warm and a lefty was up with a one-run lead in the 8th and a runner on with 2 outs. If that isn’t a spot to use your dominant LHP, I don’t know when is

[reillymcshane]

So what would a "bananas" offer look like that is also reasonable?

I think you start with an elite prospect/young player. Gore, Lux - that kind of player.

 

If a team isn't willing to deal (or doesn't have) such a player, then you're talking three top 100 types. Again, this could be minor leaguers, or young major leaguers - but ideally guys with at least 5 years of service remaining after 2020.

 

In 2016, the Cubs acquired two months of Aroldis Chapman for Gleyber Torres - who was ranked #19 on the MLB Pipeline at the time. They also got Billy McKinney (a borderline Top 100 guys) and Adam Warren, who was a pretty good reliever for the Yankees.

 

For 3.5 years of Hader, we should be able to top that deal.

[Brewcrewin07]

Robert Murray

@ByRobertMurray

·

14m

The Brewers’ stance on Josh Hader is no different than how they handle any other negotiation. If someone calls, they will listen. They’re not shopping him. The price, according to someone with direct knowledge, would have to exceed what the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman.

[TURBO]

Robert Murray

@ByRobertMurray

·

14m

The Brewers’ stance on Josh Hader is no different than how they handle any other negotiation. If someone calls, they will listen. They’re not shopping him. The price, according to someone with direct knowledge, would have to exceed what the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman.

 

THAT is good news. I would hate to move him, but if someone comes calling with the right offer, you have to do it.

 

It almost feels like he is going to get traded, if not now, at the deadline next year. It feels inevitable to me.

[RollieTime]

Robert Murray

@ByRobertMurray

·

14m

The Brewers’ stance on Josh Hader is no different than how they handle any other negotiation. If someone calls, they will listen. They’re not shopping him. The price, according to someone with direct knowledge, would have to exceed what the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman.

 

Basically you can bank on a top 20 prospect with another top 75 or so. Or a couple top 50 guys at the least. I think we match up extremely well with the Twins and Padres specifically. The Braves and Dodgers are the other two teams that have the pieces to make a trade work if they are interested. Are there any other teams I’m missing that would have the pieces to pull it off? Do the Phillies even have enough to pull off a trade? I’m not exactly blown away by what they have personally.

[RollieTime]

Robert Murray

@ByRobertMurray

·

14m

The Brewers’ stance on Josh Hader is no different than how they handle any other negotiation. If someone calls, they will listen. They’re not shopping him. The price, according to someone with direct knowledge, would have to exceed what the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman.

 

THAT is good news. I would hate to move him, but if someone comes calling with the right offer, you have to do it.

 

It almost feels like he is going to get traded, if not now, at the deadline next year. It feels inevitable to me.

 

For some reason, this just seems like the year Hader is moved. I think Hader is going to be traded in the next week.

[wallus]

Robert Murray

@ByRobertMurray

·

14m

The Brewers’ stance on Josh Hader is no different than how they handle any other negotiation. If someone calls, they will listen. They’re not shopping him. The price, according to someone with direct knowledge, would have to exceed what the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman.

 

No way he gets traded if that is true.

[Eye Black]

More from Robert Murray:

 

The Yankees showed interest in Hader in the offseason, per @JonHeyman. The two teams rival executives have mentioned most as the best fits for Hader are the Yankees and Padres. Unclear if they’re among teams to express recent interest.

[sveumrules]

 

Which games would you have used him in that the Brewers didn't?

 

The first one that immediately comes to mind is the last one in Pit, when he was warm and a lefty was up with a one-run lead in the 8th and a runner on with 2 outs. If that isn’t a spot to use your dominant LHP, I don’t know when is

 

So the difference between too dumb to actually use him & being ok with his usage is one game?

 

Our bullpen has lost four games in addition to the one that immediately comes to mind. They were...

 

July 28: Hader pitched day before. 6-2 lead entering 7th before Suter/Knebel gave up 4 for the tie & Wahl gave up 2 for the loss in the 8th. Hader also ended up saving the next day's game.

 

August 3: Up 4-2 entering the 7th before Burnes gave up the tying bomb to Abreu with Phelps picking up the loss next inning.

 

August 4: Tied 2-2 entering 7th before Williams picked up the loss on another Abreu RBI. Hader also ended up saving the following game.

 

August 18: Extra inning loss with Hader pitching a clean 10th.

 

So in four of our bullpen's five losses Hader either pitched or picked up a save the following day, two saves in a row in the most recent case.

 

Could Josh maybe have 10 or 11 innings now instead of 9? Sure, I guess. Would our record be any different? I don't think so.

[AKCheesehead]

I didn’t see any of it, but when I looked at the box for the extra inning L the next day, I was thinking to myself why wouldn’t CC have had another inning for Josh.

[paul253]

I throw out a deal:

 

Hader to Chicago White Sox for Andrew Vaughn and Garrett Crochet

 

 

Vaughn immediately becomes your top prospect and will help with the dearth of high impact bats. And Crochet is a top 10 pick with upside. I really liked him and was hoping he’d fall to Milwaukee this past draft.

[adambr2]

Robert Murray

@ByRobertMurray

·

14m

The Brewers’ stance on Josh Hader is no different than how they handle any other negotiation. If someone calls, they will listen. They’re not shopping him. The price, according to someone with direct knowledge, would have to exceed what the Yankees received for Aroldis Chapman.

 

No way he gets traded if that is true.

 

Why shouldn't it?

 

The Yankees were trading Chapman as a rental. Hader is equally as good, and he's controlled for 3 seasons beyond. That control is huge for his value.

[adambr2]

$2.69/lb seems like a really good deal for one of if not the best active relief pitcher in all of baseball.

 

Where the heck are you getting your bananas? They're $0.39/lb at Kwik Trip!

[wntrtxn21]

I throw out a deal:

 

Hader to Chicago White Sox for Andrew Vaughn and Garrett Crochet

 

 

Vaughn immediately becomes your top prospect and will help with the dearth of high impact bats. And Crochet is a top 10 pick with upside. I really liked him and was hoping he’d fall to Milwaukee this past draft.

 

No thanks. Vaughn has played one year and is in A ball (.252/.349) and way too far away to help any time soon. Crochet has not yet thrown a ball professionally. The Crew needs immediate help if they trade Hader.