Hader trade ideas

[Madhawk23]

Here's the biggest issue as I see it: we are in a "win-now" window for our franchise, and it just seems a bit ludicrous to think that we are going to then trade away one of our biggest assets that has helped us win these past couple of years. Now, if we had guys that we thought were suitable replacements in the back of our pen - then I would be all-in on trying to trade Hader this winter and at least attempting to get a nice haul of players in return. But, let's say we trade Hader tomorrow: who's going to shut down games this season in the last 2-3 innings? JJ is long gone, Knebel is coming back from TJ surgery - so we have no idea what he's going to look like, and we also know that DS is never going to go out and spend a ton of money on relievers in the FA market.

 

I've been 50/50 on this whole trade Hader talk this winter, but the more time goes along here (and the FA market dwindles), the more I think we are definitely going to be holding onto Hader for at least another year (or maybe even just a 1/2 year if we are sellers at the deadline in July).

[brewcrewdue80]

Dodgers when are they going to call? They signed Alex Wood( Jimmy Nelson too) soooo, Dustin May what's your role looking like heading in to 2020? Certainly a bit more cloudy than prior to these two signings. He's also got the Hader look with the hair, so maybe fans can squint and ignore the RH pitching motion and still think Hader was on the mound.

 

That is something to ponder on. Walker Buehler, Kershaw, Maeda, Julio Urias, Alex Wood? Dustin May/Tony Gonsolin. Jimmy Nelson, and not far is Josiah Gray. Oh missed one, Ross Stripling.

 

They have control on all those pitchers for 2 seasons(Kershaw) with Wood being a 1yr incentive contract. They can clearly part with a May and replace with a stud RP in Hader. Considering they have depth in the minors to fill a rotation this year and beyond. You get in to the Dodgers payroll and in starting 2022, their largest commitment is 13mil to AJ Pollock. Yep one contract at 13mil for the LA Dodgers 2 years from now.

 

Brewers actually have more committed than LA currently in 2022.

So fitting Hader's Super 2 Arb contract will not be a thing year 3 or 4 to them.

Obviously I want more, just stating are the Dodgers going to continue running prospects moving forward? or Use a few for a proven team controlled MLB player? Or are they going to run a payroll below 100mil come 2022 with a team built on prospects?

 

When's the last time they won the WS? Be a shame to not win one with Kershaw all those years?

[reillymcshane]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

I have heard that the Brewers are very wary of adding contracts beyond the current CBA (which runs through 2021). It doesn't mean we won't add someone beyond 2 years - but it's unlikely.

 

This is very fringy information (know someone who knows someone type of stuff) - so don't take it as gospel. It does, however, gel with how this off season has been going with regards to roster construction.

[IntentionalHBP]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

I have heard that the Brewers are very wary of adding contracts beyond the current CBA (which runs through 2021). It doesn't mean we won't add someone beyond 2 years - but it's unlikely.

 

This is very fringy information (know someone who knows someone type of stuff) - so don't take it as gospel. It does, however, gel with how this off season has been going with regards to roster construction.

They must think some drastic changes are bound to happen

[stalton]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

I have heard that the Brewers are very wary of adding contracts beyond the current CBA (which runs through 2021). It doesn't mean we won't add someone beyond 2 years - but it's unlikely.

 

This is very fringy information (know someone who knows someone type of stuff) - so don't take it as gospel. It does, however, gel with how this off season has been going with regards to roster construction.

Coming from an ignorant perspective, what changes could be made to the CBA that would dictate not wanting contracts to leak out into the new contract?

[TJseven7]

Decrease in revenue sharing dropping their ability to spend. Doing away with fully guaranteed contracts as the current ones would surely be grandfathered in as fully guaranteed. Those are plausible options. Even stiffer penalties on the lux tax violators which could freeze big money spending for a short window of time and deflate the market. That could open a 1-2 year window where available cash is king.

 

Most CBAs amount to nothing. Every once and a while there is a major shift that comes with them. The Bucks missed the boat on it when the NBA had one. A new TV deal was coming a CBA was hitting and the cap was projected to explode. The years leading up to the CBA were a time to extend deals and buy beyond your means because as soon as that new deal hit, teams were flush with money and the FA class couldn't support the money available. Some terrible deals were paid out that off season because teams had money to spend and tried to get as better as they could get with the scraps available.

 

If this rumor has any truth, and MKE is positioning themselves then they see some sort of angle opening up with what they project likely to happen with this CBA. The fact that they are looking down the road and positioning themselves shows how smart this FO really is. Again, assuming its true.

[rickh150]

Hader just blew his last two saves and seven in all for 2020. He wasn't that far away from being pulled from the 9th inning- the best reliever in baseball.

[sveumrules]

Hader just blew his last two saves and seven in all for 2020. He wasn't that far away from being pulled from the 9th inning- the best reliever in baseball.

 

From 2017-19 Hader ranked 1st in rWAR, 2nd in fWAR & 2nd in Win Probability Added among all relievers. Felipe Vazquez beat him in fWAR & WPA, but I don't think he'll be pitching in MLB next year or any time soon.

 

Hader also currently has the highest 2020 WAR projection among relievers...

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&type=steamer&team=0&lg=all&players=0&sort=5,a

 

Who do you think is better?

[brewcrewdue80]

Hader just blew his last two saves and seven in all for 2020. He wasn't that far away from being pulled from the 9th inning- the best reliever in baseball.

 

He carried a 3.17ERA with Grandal as catcher and only a .54ERA with Pina as catcher. Love to see how well he does this year without Grandal catching him.

[TJseven7]

Hader just blew his last two saves and seven in all for 2020. He wasn't that far away from being pulled from the 9th inning- the best reliever in baseball.

 

Yup. A dominant freak of a relief pitcher that has off days just like every other player in the game. If we had a manager who saw he was off and went to Lyles he might have had a hold. Biggest coaching pet peeve... putting people in position to fail or leaving them in position to fail.

[bill hAll Star]

Hader just blew his last two saves and seven in all for 2020. He wasn't that far away from being pulled from the 9th inning- the best reliever in baseball.

 

Yup. A dominant freak of a relief pitcher that has off days just like every other player in the game. If we had a manager who saw he was off and went to Lyles he might have had a hold. Biggest coaching pet peeve... putting people in position to fail or leaving them in position to fail.

 

The most beautiful thing is you can't be wrong when you make calls like this. We can all just assume that the next, inferior guy in wouldn't have blown the game in more spectacular fashion and forget that a broken bat single was the catalyst.

 

That said, in this case I was not a fan of how early he did start Hader...but I'll stop there as we won't want to rehash this.

[reillymcshane]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

I have heard that the Brewers are very wary of adding contracts beyond the current CBA (which runs through 2021). It doesn't mean we won't add someone beyond 2 years - but it's unlikely.

 

This is very fringy information (know someone who knows someone type of stuff) - so don't take it as gospel. It does, however, gel with how this off season has been going with regards to roster construction.

Coming from an ignorant perspective, what changes could be made to the CBA that would dictate not wanting contracts to leak out into the new contract?

TJseven7 mentioned a few things in a previous post, but here are a few (mostly focusing on money).

 

Salaries - The players are finding that they are locked into a restricted system (pre-arbitration and the arbitration) during the times they are often having their peak years. Thus their chance to maximize their pay can be limited. (That is a general statement, and certainly doesn't apply to every player).

 

The players want avenues to get them to free agency earlier or some way to reward quality pay earlier.

 

Luxury tax - This has effectively become a salary cap for many teams in baseball (but not all). Does this change? Or go away? The players, of course, want it to go away. Others want a hard cap of some kind.

 

Revenue sharing - Does it change in any way (more money for Milwaukee, less money?).

 

There are other items as well that will certainly affect the Brewers, including things like an International Draft, player service time, etc. But it's the ones with big money that really could affect the team.

[JosephC]

Just wasting some time this afternoon:

 

Dodgers get:

SS - Francisco Lindor (from Cleveland)

LHP - Josh Hader (from Milwaukee)

LHP - Eric Lauer (from Milwaukee)

 

Indians get:

SS - Corey Seager (from Los Angeles)

OF - Joc Pederson (from Los Angeles)

SS - Eduardo Garcia (from Milwaukee)

3B/1B - Edwin Rios (from Los Angeles)

OF - Jeren Kendall (from Los Angeles)

LHP - Scott Alexander (from Los Angeles)

 

Milwaukee gets:

LHP - Julio Urias (from Los Angeles)

RHP - Josiah Gray (from Los Angeles)

RHP - Kenta Maeda (from Los Angeles)

LHP - Brad Hand (from Cleveland)

[82brewcrew82]

You get uber props for creativity but I don't recall ever seeing a trade that complicated. Either way, I don't think Hader is moving any time soon barring some team getting stupid crazy.

[nate82]

Just wasting some time this afternoon:

 

Dodgers get:

SS - Francisco Lindor (from Cleveland)

LHP - Josh Hader (from Milwaukee)

LHP - Eric Lauer (from Milwaukee)

 

Indians get:

SS - Corey Seager (from Los Angeles)

OF - Joc Pederson (from Los Angeles)

SS - Eduardo Garcia (from Milwaukee)

3B/1B - Edwin Rios (from Los Angeles)

OF - Jeren Kendall (from Los Angeles)

LHP - Scott Alexander (from Los Angeles)

 

Milwaukee gets:

LHP - Julio Urias (from Los Angeles)

RHP - Josiah Gray (from Los Angeles)

RHP - Kenta Maeda (from Los Angeles)

LHP - Brad Hand (from Cleveland)

 

I don't think the Indians would want Seager they would just be in the same position they are in now just a few more years down the road and the same with Pederson. I think Kendall and Rios make sense though. I would substitute Seager to Milwaukee and Gray to Cleveland. Maybe keep Pederson in the trade but I would think the Indians would want someone with more control. Maybe substitute Ray and the Brewers competitive balance pick to the Indians.

[brewcrewdue80]

I almost think currently Urias and Lauer need to be similar value. Urias isnt pitching a full season of games until maybe after he becomes a FA. Lauer can this season. 87IP is Urias' most for a season his acquisition time has passed as a meaningful SP. RP sure. I think he stays on LA while we get Maeda. So gotta get somebody else from them. Seeing as Gray and Maeda is top return it should be a non pitcher.

I dont get Brad Hand or the Brewers SS at all. So just nix that.

That really means no 3rd team trade needed. Back to square 1 Hader to Dodgers for?

[MadThinker88]

I agree.. Uber props for JospehC trying to put together a 3 team deal for discussion.

That said I can confirm for you the Tribe has no interest in Seager as a return. Otherwise Lindor would already be in Dodger Blue.

 

If the Dodgers aren't giving up Lux in the deal they are giving up multiple other top end prospects (2 of Verdugo, Ruiz, May). If neither of that happens, Lindor doesn't head to LA for at least a couple more seasons (he could always head west as a free agent, that is beyond the Tribe's control). That has been the stumbling block in a deal being made so far. Now this proposal includes Brad Hand. That would increase the needed return to CLE.

 

Going over the proposed CLE return:

C Seager - already spoken too, PASS

J Peterson - interesting (like half a season of Puig at the trade deadline last season) but being a pure platoon guy is redundant to guys like Naquin/ Daniel Johnson/ etc. Maybe he remains in a revised package but I think the Tribe would be looking toward other options

Edwin Rios - Much more interesting than Peterson. I could see him as part of Tribe return package.

Eduardo Garcia - Bear with me on this: I don't believe the Tribe would see him as a significant add. Yes he is young & putting up good numbers in the DOSL. I am giving credit where it is due. But the Tribe has minor league depth in 2 areas - young middle infielders and pitching. Besides Tyler Freeman (on par with B Turang), they also have high upside talents in Brayan Rocchio, Aaron Bracho, Raynel Delgado, Richard Palacios along with MANY others. I'm not putting E Garcia behind all those players (he likely falls behind some and ahead of others), but it does lead to a question - where does everyone get to play as the continue to develop? The Tribe has focused in the International market on MIF talent so E Garcia is likely more attractive (& bring a greater return) used in a deal with another organization. Especially at the trade deadline for MKE if they are still contending/ in the thick of the race..

J Kendall - Seems redundant to others already in Cleveland (or the higher levels of the CLE minors)..

S Alexander - Hard Pass. No interest.

 

Since the name came up via nate82- no interest in Corey Ray. Perhaps last off season (before other moves were made). Again CLE has multiple options of a similar skill set. The only difference is Ray was a high 1st round draft pick.

[3and2Fastball]

Hader not being traded yet seems like a clear indication of how much the Brewers value him as a true weapon out of the bullpen. They aren’t going to just give him away.

 

I would expect that they will keep him unless blown away by a blockbuster deal. Such a stance has risk (relievers are volatile year to year) but understandable. If the Brewers are out of it at the trade deadline I could see trade talks re Hader heating up substantially.

[brewtank34]

I’m guessing his arbitration hearing is a factor in many of the decisions for the Crew. Once that concludes I believe the trade talks will ramp up again.

[brewmann04]

I still think he will be staying unless some team blows them away.

[Luke99]

With Arrenado ramping the pressure up on the Rockies, maybe we can hit squeeze some juice from them

 

To Rockies: Hader

 

To Brewers: Ryan McMahon (3rd base of the future), Michael Toglia (1st rounder, switch hittting 1B with plus D), Terrin Vavra (SS or 2b, up the middle prospect Stearns loves), Jacob Wallace (RP with funky delivery the Brewers seem to like) and Jake McGee (solid bullpen piece, owed 9 million this year and then done)

 

rockies get better to appease Arrenado, Brewers replenish some farm and take a chance McGee can be 75% of Hader this year with no long term risk money wise. We would take on about 3 million extra this year (if Hader wins his Arb case)

[Soupbone]

I would take that offer if I was the Brewers. I just get the feeling that the Arrenado situation is beyond making him happy with a trade.

[RollieTime]

I wonder if the Brewers were looking at bringing in Severino as part of a Hader trade, but didn’t like the look of his medicals. Severino is experiencing forearm soreness and is scheduled to see a doctor today. There wasn’t anything linking Severino to Milwaukee, but he’s the caliber of player Stearns would look at getting as a return piece. It’ll be interesting to see how serious Severino’s injury is.

[bill hAll Star]

I wonder if the Brewers were looking at bringing in Severino as part of a Hader trade, but didn’t like the look of his medicals. Severino is experiencing forearm soreness and is scheduled to see a doctor today. There wasn’t anything linking Severino to Milwaukee, but he’s the caliber of player Stearns would look at getting as a return piece. It’ll be interesting to see how serious Severino’s injury is.

 

Severino has 3/$30m left plus an option.

 

That's a very fair deal if he is 2018 Severino but that seems like a pretty big risk for the Brewers given the concerns coming into this season, even before he officially went in with forearm soreness.

[Lathund]

While the Brewers probably had interest in Severino as part of a deal, I don't think he's someone the Yankees would have included. Not so much because he's too valuable or untouchable, more that he's the wrong kind of valuable for them to trade. Trading him for Hader would just open up a big hole on their roster.