Hader trade ideas

[TJseven7]

Again completely disagree.

 

That's covering a lot of sins and you don't fix that with a bat because a bat can't end a game whenever an advantage is in place

 

So by that logic Hader is more valuable then say Mike Trout, Mookie Betts cause he can end a game and they can't? Thats absolutely ridiculous.

 

Let me ask you this, I would assume we both agree that Stearns is a really smart guy correct? Well why do you think he's willing to trade Hader and not say Yelich or Hiura? Why are we hearing all these rumors about Hader when if we really want to score a massive deal we would get more for either of those other two. Cause they're not available. Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day. Like I said all stars are not created equal. And this one for one probably isn't happening cause from what's being said Stearns wants a haul. Unless it was for someone like Cory Seagar who I don't know how long he's under contract for but even he would make us better if we had him over Hader.

 

First off Trout is locked in until 38 at 35-36 million dollars a year. He's THE player but the value there is pretty well paid for in full. I mean what do you think his worth is 40 mil per, 50 mil per? You have to put his value pretty high to make him a valuable contract. Hader's underpaid and looking to a guy in years 35-38 is murky so negative value could swing back on the gains Trout makes in the present. Hader doesn't get there. Betts is also in that same territory so I don't see those as good examples.

 

If you are asking if Trout make a bigger impact than Hader. Yes, significantly. He's the best player in baseball. (He's better than Yelich but I certainly wouldn't trade Yelich for Trout due to their contract value.) I'm saying that any player who is considered equal trade value to Hader on the field will not make the same impact as Hader. I'm saying that the SP prospect you get for Hader is going to effect the team era less than Hader and in a lower leverage position.

 

Trade value for Hader will not match his worth or impact. If you get fair, you lose the deal. If you get a significant gain in value you'll likely still lose the deal. You need something bordering on stupid for the price to be worth considering.

 

I believe the DS is willing to trade Hader rumors are cannon fodder. I don't think he's even considering it. I think we got a heck of a player and the media of other teams want him so they are making garbage up. Oh the Brewers are poor they can't afford his arby increasing, better be the lowly team that you are and sell him off to a real contender. That garbage. DS kicks every tire and turns over every stone. He's not dealing Hader, but he's smart enough to listen to people talk because the more they talk the more information they give up.

 

Basically, we got the hot GF and everyone's looking. They might talk, they might try, it ain't happening. People talk, trolls troll, reporters chase and rumors about nothing pop up. He's tied to Yelich Hiura and Woodruff.

 

"Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day."

Now I get it. You expect him to fail. Ok.

 

As for Cory Seager 2 years Arby 2 and 3. Pass.

[3and2Fastball]

Can't imagine why the Brewers would have any interest in Arenado. We would have to essentially pay free agent money for him (which we likely can't afford) and he isn't even a career .800 OPS away from Coors. I am sure he would still be great away from Coors and into Miller Park, but $35mil worthy? Paying him in his mid 30s? Giving up Hader worthy?

 

I would hope we would not hesitate on bringing in one of the Top 5/Top 10 Third Basemen of All-Time due to cost.

[3and2Fastball]

Can't imagine why the Brewers would have any interest in Arenado. We would have to essentially pay free agent money for him (which we likely can't afford) and he isn't even a career .800 OPS away from Coors. I am sure he would still be great away from Coors and into Miller Park, but $35mil worthy? Paying him in his mid 30s? Giving up Hader worthy?

 

I would hope we would not hesitate on bringing in one of the Top 5/Top 10 Third Basemen of All-Time due to cost.

[TJseven7]

Can't imagine why the Brewers would have any interest in Arenado. We would have to essentially pay free agent money for him (which we likely can't afford) and he isn't even a career .800 OPS away from Coors. I am sure he would still be great away from Coors and into Miller Park, but $35mil worthy? Paying him in his mid 30s? Giving up Hader worthy?

 

I would hope we would not hesitate on bringing in one of the Top 5/Top 10 Third Basemen of All-Time due to cost.

 

So names matter more than value you to?

 

I mean I don't think Donaldson is the right path but I'd rather pay him 120/4 and keep the value than trade the value for Arenado. He's likely a negative value contract over the life of his deal.

[TJseven7]

Can't imagine why the Brewers would have any interest in Arenado. We would have to essentially pay free agent money for him (which we likely can't afford) and he isn't even a career .800 OPS away from Coors. I am sure he would still be great away from Coors and into Miller Park, but $35mil worthy? Paying him in his mid 30s? Giving up Hader worthy?

 

I would hope we would not hesitate on bringing in one of the Top 5/Top 10 Third Basemen of All-Time due to cost.

 

So names matter more than value you to?

 

I mean I don't think Donaldson is the right path but I'd rather pay him 120/4 and keep the value than trade the value for Arenado. He's likely a negative value contract over the life of his deal.

[brewtank34]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

[brewtank34]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

[mtrebs]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

 

I don’t think one is coming. The team has been assembled for depth and will be competitive, at a lower payroll than last year. Competitive, but most likely not championship caliber unless everyone exceeds expectations somehow. Will keep fans in the seats, but likely not enough to win it all. I’m hoping that the payroll savings is to sign Yelich to an extension, but I’m not holding my breath.

[mtrebs]

Could use any...and I mean any..insider nuggets right about now calming the storm inside me that there is indeed a significant move in our near future that will make this years squad legit.

 

I don’t think one is coming. The team has been assembled for depth and will be competitive, at a lower payroll than last year. Competitive, but most likely not championship caliber unless everyone exceeds expectations somehow. Will keep fans in the seats, but likely not enough to win it all. I’m hoping that the payroll savings is to sign Yelich to an extension, but I’m not holding my breath.

[baumer16]

Again completely disagree.

 

That's covering a lot of sins and you don't fix that with a bat because a bat can't end a game whenever an advantage is in place

 

So by that logic Hader is more valuable then say Mike Trout, Mookie Betts cause he can end a game and they can't? Thats absolutely ridiculous.

 

Let me ask you this, I would assume we both agree that Stearns is a really smart guy correct? Well why do you think he's willing to trade Hader and not say Yelich or Hiura? Why are we hearing all these rumors about Hader when if we really want to score a massive deal we would get more for either of those other two. Cause they're not available. Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day. Like I said all stars are not created equal. And this one for one probably isn't happening cause from what's being said Stearns wants a haul. Unless it was for someone like Cory Seagar who I don't know how long he's under contract for but even he would make us better if we had him over Hader.

 

First off Trout is locked in until 38 at 35-36 million dollars a year. He's THE player but the value there is pretty well paid for in full. I mean what do you think his worth is 40 mil per, 50 mil per? You have to put his value pretty high to make him a valuable contract. Hader's underpaid and looking to a guy in years 35-38 is murky so negative value could swing back on the gains Trout makes in the present. Hader doesn't get there. Betts is also in that same territory so I don't see those as good examples.

 

If you are asking if Trout make a bigger impact than Hader. Yes, significantly. He's the best player in baseball. (He's better than Yelich but I certainly wouldn't trade Yelich for Trout due to their contract value.) I'm saying that any player who is considered equal trade value to Hader on the field will not make the same impact as Hader. I'm saying that the SP prospect you get for Hader is going to effect the team era less than Hader and in a lower leverage position.

 

Trade value for Hader will not match his worth or impact. If you get fair, you lose the deal. If you get a significant gain in value you'll likely still lose the deal. You need something bordering on stupid for the price to be worth considering.

 

I believe the DS is willing to trade Hader rumors are cannon fodder. I don't think he's even considering it. I think we got a heck of a player and the media of other teams want him so they are making garbage up. Oh the Brewers are poor they can't afford his arby increasing, better be the lowly team that you are and sell him off to a real contender. That garbage. DS kicks every tire and turns over every stone. He's not dealing Hader, but he's smart enough to listen to people talk because the more they talk the more information they give up.

 

Basically, we got the hot GF and everyone's looking. They might talk, they might try, it ain't happening. People talk, trolls troll, reporters chase and rumors about nothing pop up. He's tied to Yelich Hiura and Woodruff.

 

"Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day."

Now I get it. You expect him to fail. Ok.

 

As for Cory Seager 2 years Arby 2 and 3. Pass.

 

I don’t expect him to fail. But with a position that is historically as volatile as RP you better damn sure believe the Brewers have thought about it. So along with that, and just the overall value of a RP is probably why Stearns has floated the idea of trading him to upgrade other positions. And it’s not just a media made up frenzy. Cause if the media really wanted to make something up to get attention they can just have Heyman tweet,”Brewers willing to trade Yelich.” And just watch the baseball media world explode on twitter and various sites. I would imagine this site would have a 6 page thread on it within an hour.

 

And saying that no matter who you trade Hader for it won’t match Haders value is so completely ridiculous it’s not worth responding to.

[baumer16]

Again completely disagree.

 

That's covering a lot of sins and you don't fix that with a bat because a bat can't end a game whenever an advantage is in place

 

So by that logic Hader is more valuable then say Mike Trout, Mookie Betts cause he can end a game and they can't? Thats absolutely ridiculous.

 

Let me ask you this, I would assume we both agree that Stearns is a really smart guy correct? Well why do you think he's willing to trade Hader and not say Yelich or Hiura? Why are we hearing all these rumors about Hader when if we really want to score a massive deal we would get more for either of those other two. Cause they're not available. Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day. Like I said all stars are not created equal. And this one for one probably isn't happening cause from what's being said Stearns wants a haul. Unless it was for someone like Cory Seagar who I don't know how long he's under contract for but even he would make us better if we had him over Hader.

 

First off Trout is locked in until 38 at 35-36 million dollars a year. He's THE player but the value there is pretty well paid for in full. I mean what do you think his worth is 40 mil per, 50 mil per? You have to put his value pretty high to make him a valuable contract. Hader's underpaid and looking to a guy in years 35-38 is murky so negative value could swing back on the gains Trout makes in the present. Hader doesn't get there. Betts is also in that same territory so I don't see those as good examples.

 

If you are asking if Trout make a bigger impact than Hader. Yes, significantly. He's the best player in baseball. (He's better than Yelich but I certainly wouldn't trade Yelich for Trout due to their contract value.) I'm saying that any player who is considered equal trade value to Hader on the field will not make the same impact as Hader. I'm saying that the SP prospect you get for Hader is going to effect the team era less than Hader and in a lower leverage position.

 

Trade value for Hader will not match his worth or impact. If you get fair, you lose the deal. If you get a significant gain in value you'll likely still lose the deal. You need something bordering on stupid for the price to be worth considering.

 

I believe the DS is willing to trade Hader rumors are cannon fodder. I don't think he's even considering it. I think we got a heck of a player and the media of other teams want him so they are making garbage up. Oh the Brewers are poor they can't afford his arby increasing, better be the lowly team that you are and sell him off to a real contender. That garbage. DS kicks every tire and turns over every stone. He's not dealing Hader, but he's smart enough to listen to people talk because the more they talk the more information they give up.

 

Basically, we got the hot GF and everyone's looking. They might talk, they might try, it ain't happening. People talk, trolls troll, reporters chase and rumors about nothing pop up. He's tied to Yelich Hiura and Woodruff.

 

"Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day."

Now I get it. You expect him to fail. Ok.

 

As for Cory Seager 2 years Arby 2 and 3. Pass.

 

I don’t expect him to fail. But with a position that is historically as volatile as RP you better damn sure believe the Brewers have thought about it. So along with that, and just the overall value of a RP is probably why Stearns has floated the idea of trading him to upgrade other positions. And it’s not just a media made up frenzy. Cause if the media really wanted to make something up to get attention they can just have Heyman tweet,”Brewers willing to trade Yelich.” And just watch the baseball media world explode on twitter and various sites. I would imagine this site would have a 6 page thread on it within an hour.

 

And saying that no matter who you trade Hader for it won’t match Haders value is so completely ridiculous it’s not worth responding to.

[homer]

It's ok to disagree with each other as long as you keep it civil. Last warning.

[homer]

It's ok to disagree with each other as long as you keep it civil. Last warning.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

Let me ask you this, I would assume we both agree that Stearns is a really smart guy correct? Well why do you think he's willing to trade Hader and not say Yelich or Hiura? Why are we hearing all these rumors about Hader when if we really want to score a massive deal we would get more for either of those other two. Cause they're not available. Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day. Like I said all stars are not created equal. And this one for one probably isn't happening cause from what's being said Stearns wants a haul. Unless it was for someone like Cory Seagar who I don't know how long he's under contract for but even he would make us better if we had him over Hader.

 

His FB avg is 95.6MPH But he only throws it 84% of the time in '19 and that was 79% in '18 Something I attribute to Grandal's receiving skills. Pina caught 15innings for Hader to a tune of .54ERA For Grandal it was 3.17. I'd love to see graphs somewhere and pitch types to the catcher pitched too. Cant's find any currently. I am close to checking the ERAs of the pitchers for 2019 with which catcher. Just the investing time in doing so I'm on the fence doing so.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

Let me ask you this, I would assume we both agree that Stearns is a really smart guy correct? Well why do you think he's willing to trade Hader and not say Yelich or Hiura? Why are we hearing all these rumors about Hader when if we really want to score a massive deal we would get more for either of those other two. Cause they're not available. Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day. Like I said all stars are not created equal. And this one for one probably isn't happening cause from what's being said Stearns wants a haul. Unless it was for someone like Cory Seagar who I don't know how long he's under contract for but even he would make us better if we had him over Hader.

 

His FB avg is 95.6MPH But he only throws it 84% of the time in '19 and that was 79% in '18 Something I attribute to Grandal's receiving skills. Pina caught 15innings for Hader to a tune of .54ERA For Grandal it was 3.17. I'd love to see graphs somewhere and pitch types to the catcher pitched too. Cant's find any currently. I am close to checking the ERAs of the pitchers for 2019 with which catcher. Just the investing time in doing so I'm on the fence doing so.

[TJseven7]

Again completely disagree.

 

That's covering a lot of sins and you don't fix that with a bat because a bat can't end a game whenever an advantage is in place

 

So by that logic Hader is more valuable then say Mike Trout, Mookie Betts cause he can end a game and they can't? Thats absolutely ridiculous.

 

Let me ask you this, I would assume we both agree that Stearns is a really smart guy correct? Well why do you think he's willing to trade Hader and not say Yelich or Hiura? Why are we hearing all these rumors about Hader when if we really want to score a massive deal we would get more for either of those other two. Cause they're not available. Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day. Like I said all stars are not created equal. And this one for one probably isn't happening cause from what's being said Stearns wants a haul. Unless it was for someone like Cory Seagar who I don't know how long he's under contract for but even he would make us better if we had him over Hader.

 

First off Trout is locked in until 38 at 35-36 million dollars a year. He's THE player but the value there is pretty well paid for in full. I mean what do you think his worth is 40 mil per, 50 mil per? You have to put his value pretty high to make him a valuable contract. Hader's underpaid and looking to a guy in years 35-38 is murky so negative value could swing back on the gains Trout makes in the present. Hader doesn't get there. Betts is also in that same territory so I don't see those as good examples.

 

If you are asking if Trout make a bigger impact than Hader. Yes, significantly. He's the best player in baseball. (He's better than Yelich but I certainly wouldn't trade Yelich for Trout due to their contract value.) I'm saying that any player who is considered equal trade value to Hader on the field will not make the same impact as Hader. I'm saying that the SP prospect you get for Hader is going to effect the team era less than Hader and in a lower leverage position.

 

Trade value for Hader will not match his worth or impact. If you get fair, you lose the deal. If you get a significant gain in value you'll likely still lose the deal. You need something bordering on stupid for the price to be worth considering.

 

I believe the DS is willing to trade Hader rumors are cannon fodder. I don't think he's even considering it. I think we got a heck of a player and the media of other teams want him so they are making garbage up. Oh the Brewers are poor they can't afford his arby increasing, better be the lowly team that you are and sell him off to a real contender. That garbage. DS kicks every tire and turns over every stone. He's not dealing Hader, but he's smart enough to listen to people talk because the more they talk the more information they give up.

 

Basically, we got the hot GF and everyone's looking. They might talk, they might try, it ain't happening. People talk, trolls troll, reporters chase and rumors about nothing pop up. He's tied to Yelich Hiura and Woodruff.

 

"Cause everyday stars are far more valuable than a reliever who pitches one pitch 95% of the time and averages less than 1 inning every other day."

Now I get it. You expect him to fail. Ok.

 

As for Cory Seager 2 years Arby 2 and 3. Pass.

 

I don’t expect him to fail. But with a position that is historically as volatile as RP you better damn sure believe the Brewers have thought about it. So along with that, and just the overall value of a RP is probably why Stearns has floated the idea of trading him to upgrade other positions. And it’s not just a media made up frenzy. Cause if the media really wanted to make something up to get attention they can just have Heyman tweet,”Brewers willing to trade Yelich.” And just watch the baseball media world explode on twitter and various sites. I would imagine this site would have a 6 page thread on it within an hour.

 

And saying that no matter who you trade Hader for it won’t match Haders value is so completely ridiculous it’s not worth responding to.

 

Bad writers chasing fake Yankee rumors made up by junior college kids is not proof he's actually being shopped.

"Rosenthal argues it’s simply the nature of being a low payroll organization; the front office can never afford to completely shut itself out from any opportunity."

That's called prospecting. Look for something within a degree of plausibility and put a flashy headline on it.

"While Stearns didn’t deny the report or dismiss the idea of a Hader deal, he naturally didn’t give any hint about how much desire his club actually had in moving Hader, only saying that “I think we consider him the best reliever in baseball right now.”''

That's a brush off.

 

Rosenthal speculating because the Brewers are a poor team, and DS not telling him off is the proof this is a thing? That's not proof of anything. That's click bait and DS didn't blast him for it. His only comment was to brush it off with "best reliever in baseball." Let's open up 47 pages of trade ideas cuz Rosenthal's saying there's a chance!

 

RP is not a historically volatile position. Mediocre RPs are consistently volatile. Elite RPs regularly dominate for 5-6 year windows if not more. He's one of those.

[clancyphile]

"Rosenthal argues it’s simply the nature of being a low payroll organization; the front office can never afford to completely shut itself out from any opportunity."

That's called prospecting. Look for something within a degree of plausibility and put a flashy headline on it.

"While Stearns didn’t deny the report or dismiss the idea of a Hader deal, he naturally didn’t give any hint about how much desire his club actually had in moving Hader, only saying that “I think we consider him the best reliever in baseball right now.”''

That's a brush off.

 

Rosenthal speculating because the Brewers are a poor team, and DS not telling him off is the proof this is a thing? That's not proof of anything. That's click bait and DS didn't blast him for it. His only comment was to brush it off with "best reliever in baseball." Let's open up 47 pages of trade ideas cuz Rosenthal's saying there's a chance!

 

RP is not a historically volatile position. Mediocre RPs are consistently volatile. Elite RPs regularly dominate for 5-6 year windows if not more. He's one of those.

 

I don't think anyone disputes that Josh Hader is an elite relief pitcher. We've seen what he has done since he came up in 2017, and his talent is undeniable. He's probably been the difference in 10 games a season over the last two years.

 

The problem is that his elite performance will soon come with a high price tag and at some point, the salary he will command for that elite performance will cost the Brewers more than just money. The question is, what do we do as that salary climbs? Do we wait until the salary gets so high that the return in a trade is diminished, or do we move him with a little more control and cheaper, to get that better return?

 

Yeah, we could pay him $15 million, but if that means he secures wins 71-80, or even to secure wins 76-85 on a season, is it really the best use of the financial resources of the Milwaukee Brewers? I would argue in those cases, the $15 million is poorly spent.

 

You could argue that the 2019 playoff Brewers came about because Milwaukee traded a player at the right time: The Carlos Gomez trade brought Hader and Houser, both key members of the pitching staff, it brought Brinson, who was the centerpiece of the Yelich trade, and it brought Maverick Phillips, who was arguably the centerpiece of the Moustakas trade.

 

This is what Milwaukee will have to confront, barring some super-mega billionaire buying the team from Mark Attanasio.

[brewcrewdue80]

Thinking about the Arbitration, there probably lies the timeline on when a deal may/would happen trading Hader. So after mid-Feb the salary projections for Hader will be known and what value he has moving forward. 4.1 vs 6.4mil yr 1 arb. What does that look like year 2? 7.5-11.8?

 

So what Im getting at is 1 more month boys&girls and when that salary number for year1 comes out, watch the trade rumors really take off.

[homer]

This thread got me thinking about how to value an elite reliever vs a position player(s). This was an interesting bit from a Fangraphs article about the Chapman trade from 2016 https://blogs.fangraphs.com/valuing-relievers-correction-or-bubble/:

 

By our current valuation methods, the game’s elite relievers are worth about +2 WAR in the regular season, but as Sullivan showed, teams with those kinds of elite relief performances generally win about 1.7 games more than we’d expect, so you could argue that perhaps these guys are worth closer to +4 WAR, if the team’s clutch performance was solely due to having a great reliever.

 

Obviously this does not take into account the contract of the reliever or years of control which is a HUGE deal when evaluating a trade. Also positional performance volatility has to be taken into account and relievers tend to be a volatile group. Digging a littler further I found this from a Forbes article https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonyblengino/2019/11/21/the-brewers-should-at-least-entertain-trade-offers-for-josh-hader-this-off-season/#4709ed375bda

 

Hader is under team control for four arbitration seasons, and will earn over $30M over that span if he remains healthy and effective. If he pitches at his 2019 level, he could deliver as much as $80M in value over that span, for a total of $50M excess value. That’s nothing to sneeze at.

 

That’s the potential reward. The risk, however, is immense. One would think that $50M in excess contract value would land Hader on Fangraphs’ annual Top 50 Trade Value list. He only made the Honorable Mentions, however.

 

Reliever performance, as you might surmise, is extremely volatile. Hader ranked 3rd in reliever WAR in both 2018 and 2019. Going back to 2017, he is the only reliever to repeat among the top five. That’s right - there are 14 different relievers among the 15 top relief performances over the last three seasons.

 

I put this all out there not to suggest the Brewers should trade Hader but more to see if we can come to some kind of consensus (good luck) on value.

[clancyphile]

This thread got me thinking about how to value an elite reliever vs a position player(s). This was an interesting bit from a Fangraphs article about the Chapman trade from 2016 https://blogs.fangraphs.com/valuing-relievers-correction-or-bubble/:

 

By our current valuation methods, the game’s elite relievers are worth about +2 WAR in the regular season, but as Sullivan showed, teams with those kinds of elite relief performances generally win about 1.7 games more than we’d expect, so you could argue that perhaps these guys are worth closer to +4 WAR, if the team’s clutch performance was solely due to having a great reliever.

 

Obviously this does not take into account the contract of the reliever or years of control which is a HUGE deal when evaluating a trade. Also positional performance volatility has to be taken into account and relievers tend to be a volatile group. Digging a littler further I found this from a Forbes article https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonyblengino/2019/11/21/the-brewers-should-at-least-entertain-trade-offers-for-josh-hader-this-off-season/#4709ed375bda

 

Hader is under team control for four arbitration seasons, and will earn over $30M over that span if he remains healthy and effective. If he pitches at his 2019 level, he could deliver as much as $80M in value over that span, for a total of $50M excess value. That’s nothing to sneeze at.

 

That’s the potential reward. The risk, however, is immense. One would think that $50M in excess contract value would land Hader on Fangraphs’ annual Top 50 Trade Value list. He only made the Honorable Mentions, however.

 

Reliever performance, as you might surmise, is extremely volatile. Hader ranked 3rd in reliever WAR in both 2018 and 2019. Going back to 2017, he is the only reliever to repeat among the top five. That’s right - there are 14 different relievers among the 15 top relief performances over the last three seasons.

 

I put this all out there not to suggest the Brewers should trade Hader but more to see if we can come to some kind of consensus (good luck) on value.

 

I think Hader's value to the Brewers is immense right now, and remains so through the 2021 season. I would not deal him through the 2020 season unless someone backed up the truck. This is the year to not just stick with Hader, but to see how the Brewers farm system's best relief prospects (Rasmussen, Andrews, and QTC) shake out along with the next tier (Barker, Perdomo, Olczak). If the top relief prospects force their way to the majors - so much the better.

 

In 2022 and 2023, the Brewers will be paying Hader a lot of money for elite performance... and that will come with costs not seen on a balance sheet - it will be opportunity costs. Losing out on free agent X - seeing player Y walk. Furthermore, the return will not be as great. I think Forbes is off on the salary - four years of arby means a total price tag of $45-50 million, not $30 million - and as such, the 2021-2022 offseason is the last chance to really get good trade value for Hader.

[TJseven7]

and as such, the 2021-2022 offseason is the last chance to really get good trade value for Hader.

 

I'd expect big payroll playoff teams to compete for him even in arby year 3 and 4. Teams chased Miller and chased Chapman (HARD) and if Hader puts up his 4th and 5th year of dominance the Papelbon Arby record won't be the only one he breaks.

 

I won't agree on the same names but the farm will be huge in the decision to eventually deal Hader. I don't see it happening before arby 4 offseason unless the farm can churn out some big time pen firemen. Peralta (if he gets a legitimate 2nd pitch) Brown (if starter flames out for him) Rasmussen and Kelly could all be of the type that makes Hader acceptably expendable.

 

I'd cuff Yelich Hader Hiura and Woodruff. That's the core for the next 3 years you ride while the window is open.

[MNBrew]

All this discussion re: Hader is fun, if for no other reason than that he's one of 2-4 players (Yelich for sure, possibly Hiura & Woodruff) who might net a very significant return in a trade.

 

But I keep coming back to this:

 

Most of the Hader discussion on a national level over the past 1+ month is rooted in a single Ken Rosenthal tweet that the Brewers were listening on Josh Hader. He followed that, as I recall, with a little speculative commentary. Others have heard that, spun it, ran with it, whatever -- basically made it into a much bigger story than it was. But it all started with "The Brewers are listening on Josh Hader" -- and that's it.

 

There's a huge difference between "listening on" and "shopping." Rosenthal said "listening on Hader." Others turned it into "shopping Hader," which was not the report.

 

Haudricourt, among others (mainly local writers), noted that Stearns said that over the course of a winter, it's normal that they get calls on pretty much everyone on their roster. In other words, it seems very true that, technically, Stearns actually listens on everyone. All that indicates, though, is that other teams are interested in Brewers players, not that Stearns is looking to move them.

 

Funny but somewhat expected how Rosenthal's tweet has created such a buzz. It's too bad, though, that others didn't see or heed the locally reported & factual 2nd part, which would've created a way different context.

[brewmann04]

I think DS will listen to all offers and would have to be blown away to move Hader IMO.

[MNBrew]

I think DS will listen to all offers and would have to be blown away to move Hader IMO.

Right. You listen in case you hear something that blows you away. Lacking that, I'd think most of those sorts of inquiries die on the vine pretty quickly.

[A Swing and A Drive]

With 4 years of team control left, LHP Josh Hader is one of the most valuable commodities in baseball.

 

I disagree that he's not as valuable as an above average everyday player.

 

Also, if you are a contending team that is already likely to make the playoffs come the end of July, is there any more valuable player that you could add to your team (bullpen) then Josh Hader The Dominator?

 

Short answer: No there is not.