Hader trade ideas

[TURBO]

What’s the difference between possibly looking to trade Hader and “willing to listen?” Also if he’s willing to listen on any player like you say how come we haven’t heard anything about teams trying to trade for Yelich? Cause that seems like someone teams would love to trade for.

I dont have a link, but I know it has been reported that yelich is the one(possibly one of two, but I cant remember the other name) player we are not open to trading for the right price.

 

Yelich is the only one who is off-limits for sure.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, he is unique. On the other hand, if a team was offering a massive overpay for Yelich (say the Yankees offer Torres, Urshela, Stanton, Severino, and Sanchez), I'd be willing to listen, even if it's to say, "Thanks, but no."

 

So, practically, I would have Yelich on a "not available for trade" list, but theoretically, there are packages I'd take for him. I doubt any GM would be willing to make them.

 

Hiura may be almost on that list. I'd take him even up for Torres, but would the Yankees bite?

 

If the Yankees offered that package for Yelich, I wouldn't be able to accept fast enough!

 

YES please!!!!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Hiura may be almost on that list. I'd take him even up for Torres, but would the Yankees bite?

 

Let's see ... a player with a similar bat to Hiura, plays a more valuable position, and isn't a Little Leaguer on defense. No, they would not.

[Lathund]

I guess I'm a bit perplexed why so many seemingly would be okay with just getting a package of prospects for Josh?? To me, you have to get something at least as impactful or more than Josh is for the current team. I really think if DS traded Josh for nothing more than a package of prospects, no matter how good they MAY become, he would get crucified, and probably rightly so. You can't subtract a piece like that from the current team, and not get an immediate impact back. That would be tough to explain I think.

 

Trades like the ones for Archer and Goldschmidt could be the model. Both were for players who weren't quite prospects, but also weren't established yet. Young players who had lost prospect status (Well not all of them). Those were deals that made the Rays and Dback not only better in the long term, but even in the short term. That's one way to go.

 

But if we're talking prospects, there can be multiple trades. Brewers acquire prospects for Hader, and Brewers send prospects in another trade. You try to get prospects you like a lot, and trade prospects you believe less in. You trade a LHRP, and acquire whatever it is you're looking for. There are few teams who both need an elite reliever and are willing to trade MLB ready talent, but finding two separate partners could be easier. A shrewd operator like Stearns could make the team better through combining moves like that, even if it's obviously not as easy as it sounds.

 

@MLBMarathon just posted this

 

Hader for Andujar and Frazier being discussed. #Brewers seeking one more top prospect to finish the deal. Cashman being a tough negotiator. #Yankees #MLB

 

Andujar and Frazier are the names thrown in on every trade discussion with the Yankees, regardless of the player, in the last year. I wouldn't read much into it.

[brewerhuman]

Can we shift our attention to the White Sox for a bit, as it was reported that they’re turning some of their efforts to relief pitching (and Puig, I guess)? They seem like a really intriguing landing spot for a Hader deal given:

 

-they need to/could improve their bullpen, given that...

-they’re sensing their time to make a push forward is now

-they have quite a bit of talent in the prospect/MLB ready/young and controllable upside camps

-have made deals with the Brewers in the past (I admit this doesn’t mean much at all but i don’t think familiarity hurts)

-also this re: familiarity https://www.brewcrewball.com/platform/amp/2017/9/25/16360096/white-sox-wanted-josh-hader-in-a-potential-jose-quintana-deal-with-milwaukee-per-report

 

Thoughts?

[brewcrewdue80]

I made mention on sending Hader to the White Sox and headline that with Dylan Cease. Looking now a guy I'd add would be #6 prospect Jonathan Stiever(has WI state ties) And that may actually be it. The read on Stiever is that he's good with Fastball and Curveball, repeats delivery and has control. He's basically a guy about to jump in to the top 100 with anything resembling under 4ERA next season. What's good about him is he had 145IP for A/A+ ball last season. So already we are staring at a guy that can exceed 160IP next season.

Maybe a Gavin Sheets joins the return. 2nd rd pick of 2017 playing 1b. Lefty. Doesn't sound like a 3TO. Maybe a Lyle Overbay type.

 

Cease was a top 30 Prospect who had the HR ding upon playing in the MLB but otherwise hadn't down in the minors. Think Burnes here. He'll obviously have options and you can put any of the 3 of Peralta/Burnes/Cease in to the rotation.

 

To me this is sorta upside, upside, upside while not digging in to the White Sox pecking order. Kopech, Vaughn, Collins, Dane Dunning.

Maybe you send them Brett Anderson if you're feeling they wouldn't make the trade of Cease out of that rotation for 2020 as it sets up a little thin in the early term of 2020.

[wntrtxn21]

I made mention on sending Hader to the White Sox and headline that with Dylan Cease. Looking now a guy I'd add would be #6 prospect Jonathan Stiever(has WI state ties) And that may actually be it. The read on Stiever is that he's good with Fastball and Curveball, repeats delivery and has control. He's basically a guy about to jump in to the top 100 with anything resembling under 4ERA next season. What's good about him is he had 145IP for A/A+ ball last season. So already we are staring at a guy that can exceed 160IP next season.

Maybe a Gavin Sheets joins the return. 2nd rd pick of 2017 playing 1b. Lefty. Doesn't sound like a 3TO. Maybe a Lyle Overbay type.

 

Cease was a top 30 Prospect who had the HR ding upon playing in the MLB but otherwise hadn't down in the minors. Think Burnes here. He'll obviously have options and you can put any of the 3 of Peralta/Burnes/Cease in to the rotation.

 

To me this is sorta upside, upside, upside while not digging in to the White Sox pecking order. Kopech, Vaughn, Collins, Dane Dunning.

Maybe you send them Brett Anderson if you're feeling they wouldn't make the trade of Cease out of that rotation for 2020 as it sets up a little thin in the early term of 2020.

 

Right now I don't see the big upside to Cease that you are seeing. In AAA 4.50 ERA - 1.57 WHIP - 10 hits/9 - 4.5 BBs/9. His small sample (73 IPs) in the big leagues last year was even worse (5.79 ERA - almost 10 hits/9 - 1.8 HRs/9 - 4+ BBs/9). Certainly not the headliner Stearns would want for Hader. Maybe for Anderson. Sheets is a nice prospect as a minor piece of the trade. Stiever is a prospect, but he got rocked in A+ last year and is too far away to be anything but a throw-in.

[MNBrew]

I believe the only way you can trade Brett Anderson is if 6 months have passed since he signed.

[NievesNoNO]

Can we shift our attention to the White Sox for a bit, as it was reported that they’re turning some of their efforts to relief pitching (and Puig, I guess)? They seem like a really intriguing landing spot for a Hader deal given:

 

-they need to/could improve their bullpen, given that...

-they’re sensing their time to make a push forward is now

-they have quite a bit of talent in the prospect/MLB ready/young and controllable upside camps

-have made deals with the Brewers in the past (I admit this doesn’t mean much at all but i don’t think familiarity hurts)

-also this re: familiarity https://www.brewcrewball.com/platform/amp/2017/9/25/16360096/white-sox-wanted-josh-hader-in-a-potential-jose-quintana-deal-with-milwaukee-per-report

 

Thoughts?

 

Madrigal - if you think he can play short (I'd be willing to take a shot with Urias opening at 3B)

Zach Collins

Burdi

Danny Mendick

 

.... or Robert straight up

[brewcrewdue80]

I made mention on sending Hader to the White Sox and headline that with Dylan Cease. Looking now a guy I'd add would be #6 prospect Jonathan Stiever(has WI state ties) And that may actually be it. The read on Stiever is that he's good with Fastball and Curveball, repeats delivery and has control. He's basically a guy about to jump in to the top 100 with anything resembling under 4ERA next season. What's good about him is he had 145IP for A/A+ ball last season. So already we are staring at a guy that can exceed 160IP next season.

Maybe a Gavin Sheets joins the return. 2nd rd pick of 2017 playing 1b. Lefty. Doesn't sound like a 3TO. Maybe a Lyle Overbay type.

 

Cease was a top 30 Prospect who had the HR ding upon playing in the MLB but otherwise hadn't down in the minors. Think Burnes here. He'll obviously have options and you can put any of the 3 of Peralta/Burnes/Cease in to the rotation.

 

To me this is sorta upside, upside, upside while not digging in to the White Sox pecking order. Kopech, Vaughn, Collins, Dane Dunning.

Maybe you send them Brett Anderson if you're feeling they wouldn't make the trade of Cease out of that rotation for 2020 as it sets up a little thin in the early term of 2020.

 

Right now I don't see the big upside to Cease that you are seeing. In AAA 4.50 ERA - 1.57 WHIP - 10 hits/9 - 4.5 BBs/9. His small sample (73 IPs) in the big leagues last year was even worse (5.79 ERA - almost 10 hits/9 - 1.8 HRs/9 - 4+ BBs/9). Certainly not the headliner Stearns would want for Hader. Maybe for Anderson. Sheets is a nice prospect as a minor piece of the trade. Stiever is a prospect, but he got rocked in A+ last year and is too far away to be anything but a throw-in.

 

Plus/plus Fastball, a Plus Curveball, he mixes a slider/split from that curve, and an average Changeup offering. 6years of control. 2.4ERA in 2018. top 30 prospect prior to graduating. Remember last year was his rookie season. 6.86ERA in July, 6.97ERA in August, 3.0ERA in September. 21IP 28ks in that September only 16hits off him. Genuine 4 pitch mix that last season was 51.5%FB--21%SL--18.5%CB--8.9%CH The FB was his negative ranked pitch last season. The other 3 had positive values

You want a guy with ToR potential?, this is when you get them. Woodruff's 2017--4.81ERA 2018 for 4starts 6.32ERA or 1 start shy of a 21IP Cease month. Last season 3.62ERA. Would you trade Woodruff+ for Hader?

 

 

Stiever was rocked sure in the lower A level and had big improvement the 2nd half at A+. Reverse. Maybe the difference is a hitters league vs a pitcher's league? Either way he improved on that start at the higher level. How rare is it that a guy likely to play AA next season near age 23 will have the ability to pitch 160IP? So often it seems like they are hoping for 135 to 140IP. Then come 2021 he would be good to go for a full season at the MLB level timed with the year you'd project him to pitch in the Majors.

 

Then you may enter 2021 with Woodruff, Cease, Brown/Burnes/Peralta/Lauer and Stiever as a 7th man with that entire staff minus Woodruff having 4years of control or more. Maybe then we can go through an offseason without the incessant ToR acquiring posts after every move that isn't a ToR SP.

[Soupbone]

Sure wish DS would just get this done so we can all stop speculating the return.

[nate82]

Sure wish DS would just get this done so we can all stop speculating the return.

 

This is probably going to carry on to the deadline and then even may be into next off season.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Sure wish DS would just get this done so we can all stop speculating the return.

 

 

There's a very good possibility that we enter the season with Hader as a Brewer.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Sure wish DS would just get this done so we can all stop speculating the return.

 

 

There's a very good possibility that we enter the season with Hader as a Brewer.

 

If the trade packages being floated out there are anywhere close to accurate, I predict this will be the case. I'm not interested in trading for the Yankees spare parts and/or teenagers/overhyped prospects like Florial.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Andujar is mildly intriguing. He put up a 2.2 WAR season at age 23 which the value of was cut in half because of awful, Braunsian level bad defense at 3B. He doesn't take a lot of walks, but he is young, and could improve that walk rate. I absolutely wouldn't want him to be the centerpiece of a Hader deal, and I'd look at him being a future DH, if that is indeed coming to the NL. I just don't see the Yankees as being a great fit though, for many of the reasons listed. I think Hader is staying put for now. Though I have been known to be wrong. From time to time....

[Brewcrewin07]

Sure wish DS would just get this done so we can all stop speculating the return.

 

 

There's a very good possibility that we enter the season with Hader as a Brewer.

 

If the trade packages being floated out there are anywhere close to accurate, I predict this will be the case. I'm not interested in trading for the Yankees spare parts and/or teenagers/overhyped prospects like Florial.

 

+1000...I know we are all amateur GM's here, but some of the "packages" people have put together here have been essentially nothing but prospects. That's simply not going to cut it for Hader if I'm trading him. Again, for me, unless you get at least ONE major, major piece back that can be put on the major league roster right now and contribute immediately in a massive way, I'm simply not trading him...period.

[brewerhuman]

As tempting as it has been to play along, I think it’s best to be heavily skeptical (or don’t believe) accounts like MLB Marathon and the Yankee-leaning accounts. The likelihood of them being the only accounts to have anything new is super unlikely. It makes way more sense that talks are still at “Yankees are very interested, but the price is very high and hard to meet.”

 

I think saying the Brewers need an elite, overwhelming return is a bit hyperbolic. It should be significantly substantial. Those don’t sound too different, but I think there’s a fine line there, and I think this debate can often shift to extremes. For example, a guy like Lux is probably not being included.

 

If we think as objectively as possible, the teams the Brewers should be involved with should have an easy to identify, deep and varied pool of talent and a clear desire/need for Hader to push them a level up. To me that includes the White Sox, Twins, Rays, Mets (maybe), and Dodgers.

 

Are there more teams where the logic adds up, and both the receiving team and the Brewers can get what they’re in the trade talks for?

[billymac]

I really don't care for anything the Yankees will be offering

 

I would think the Twins would maybe need to sign Donaldson for this to add to their infielder depth, but I really want a deal done with the Twins focusing on Luis Arraez and Brusdar Graterol with another lower level prospect or two.

 

Arraez is an absolute hitting machine, as a 22 year old this past year hit 334/399/439 with a 123 OPS+. He played 17 of 95 games at 3rd without an error. Throughout the 6 years in the minors he averaged 331/385/414 and I don't know how he was never a highly regarded prospect. I would put him at 3rd and not look back. Move him to 2nd if the DH opens in the NL and move Hiura to DH. He is pegged as the starting 2nd baseman this year for them, so they would need to fill that gap, possibly add Orlando Arcia to the trade who could fill in at 2nd. The Brewers definitely need more contact and OBP guys to fill their roster.

 

Graterol hits 100 routinely and mixes in a hard slider, slower curve and changeup. Gets a ton of ground balls and could be a "Future as a frontline starter". Ranked as the #53 over prospect in baseball. He could start in AAA and be with the big club later this season, or be a part of the bullpen right out of spring training.

 

This would be two immediate impact players for the ball club, both with 6 years control. Add in another lottery ticket or two which Stearns is great at finding gems.

 

Looking at the Twins bullpen, recently signed Tyler Clippard and Sergio Romo and they have only one impact left hander in Taylor Rogers. I'm sure they are looking to expand on their 101 win season from last year.

[Brewcrewin07]

As tempting as it has been to play along, I think it’s best to be heavily skeptical (or don’t believe) accounts like MLB Marathon and the Yankee-leaning accounts. The likelihood of them being the only accounts to have anything new is super unlikely. It makes way more sense that talks are still at “Yankees are very interested, but the price is very high and hard to meet.”

 

I think saying the Brewers need an elite, overwhelming return is a bit hyperbolic. It should be significantly substantial. Those don’t sound too different, but I think there’s a fine line there, and I think this debate can often shift to extremes. For example, a guy like Lux is probably not being included.

 

If we think as objectively as possible, the teams the Brewers should be involved with should have an easy to identify, deep and varied pool of talent and a clear desire/need for Hader to push them a level up. To me that includes the White Sox, Twins, Rays, Mets (maybe), and Dodgers.

 

Are there more teams where the logic adds up, and both the receiving team and the Brewers can get what they’re in the trade talks for?

 

This is one of the problems, I think...DS doesn't strike me as the type of guy that wants to literally rake someone over the coals for a player like Hader, rather he seems like the type that would want to make a "fair" deal for both sides. For some reason I can't see him even asking for someone like Gleyber for example, figuring there's no way he'd get him. I could be wrong on that, but to me, DS should be asking for the moon and hold firm on that. No one says trades have to be fair for both sides.

[brewerhuman]

To be clear, I meant that both teams would get what they both want as in the opposing team would get Hader and the Brewers would get to create their most ideal return from a much better looking pool of prospects instead of having to settle for the best of what is available and not as ideal (read: Yankees). I never meant to imply that any deal had to be balanced. I'm all for the Brewers winning the trade

[bigred]

As tempting as it has been to play along, I think it’s best to be heavily skeptical (or don’t believe) accounts like MLB Marathon and the Yankee-leaning accounts. The likelihood of them being the only accounts to have anything new is super unlikely. It makes way more sense that talks are still at “Yankees are very interested, but the price is very high and hard to meet.”

 

I think saying the Brewers need an elite, overwhelming return is a bit hyperbolic. It should be significantly substantial. Those don’t sound too different, but I think there’s a fine line there, and I think this debate can often shift to extremes. For example, a guy like Lux is probably not being included.

 

If we think as objectively as possible, the teams the Brewers should be involved with should have an easy to identify, deep and varied pool of talent and a clear desire/need for Hader to push them a level up. To me that includes the White Sox, Twins, Rays, Mets (maybe), and Dodgers.

 

Are there more teams where the logic adds up, and both the receiving team and the Brewers can get what they’re in the trade talks for?

 

This is one of the problems, I think...DS doesn't strike me as the type of guy that wants to literally rake someone over the coals for a player like Hader, rather he seems like the type that would want to make a "fair" deal for both sides. For some reason I can't see him even asking for someone like Gleyber for example, figuring there's no way he'd get him. I could be wrong on that, but to me, DS should be asking for the moon and hold firm on that. No one says trades have to be fair for both sides.

 

 

You figure Stearns isn't the type that would ask for a Gleyber type prospect because he'd just assume the other team wouldn't do it anyway, but also think he should ask for the moon in the trade, and stand firm to it? I'm confused.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

As tempting as it has been to play along, I think it’s best to be heavily skeptical (or don’t believe) accounts like MLB Marathon and the Yankee-leaning accounts. The likelihood of them being the only accounts to have anything new is super unlikely. It makes way more sense that talks are still at “Yankees are very interested, but the price is very high and hard to meet.”

 

I think saying the Brewers need an elite, overwhelming return is a bit hyperbolic. It should be significantly substantial. Those don’t sound too different, but I think there’s a fine line there, and I think this debate can often shift to extremes. For example, a guy like Lux is probably not being included.

 

If we think as objectively as possible, the teams the Brewers should be involved with should have an easy to identify, deep and varied pool of talent and a clear desire/need for Hader to push them a level up. To me that includes the White Sox, Twins, Rays, Mets (maybe), and Dodgers.

 

Are there more teams where the logic adds up, and both the receiving team and the Brewers can get what they’re in the trade talks for?

 

This is one of the problems, I think...DS doesn't strike me as the type of guy that wants to literally rake someone over the coals for a player like Hader, rather he seems like the type that would want to make a "fair" deal for both sides. For some reason I can't see him even asking for someone like Gleyber for example, figuring there's no way he'd get him. I could be wrong on that, but to me, DS should be asking for the moon and hold firm on that. No one says trades have to be fair for both sides.

 

 

You figure Stearns isn't the type that wouldn't even bother asking for Gleyber type prospects because he'd just automatically assume the other team wouldn't offer them anyway, but also think he should ask for the moon in a trade, and stand firm to it? (which he should) I'm confused.

 

This would be called creating a negative, combative narrative in your head simply to create one. He is waiting for a deal to go down so he can be massively underwhelmed with the return and have ammo to crap on Stearns and Attanasio some more. I suggest we just wait and see what happens before tar and feathering the GM before a move even happens.

[superfly]

As tempting as it has been to play along, I think it’s best to be heavily skeptical (or don’t believe) accounts like MLB Marathon and the Yankee-leaning accounts. The likelihood of them being the only accounts to have anything new is super unlikely. It makes way more sense that talks are still at “Yankees are very interested, but the price is very high and hard to meet.”

 

I think saying the Brewers need an elite, overwhelming return is a bit hyperbolic. It should be significantly substantial. Those don’t sound too different, but I think there’s a fine line there, and I think this debate can often shift to extremes. For example, a guy like Lux is probably not being included.

 

If we think as objectively as possible, the teams the Brewers should be involved with should have an easy to identify, deep and varied pool of talent and a clear desire/need for Hader to push them a level up. To me that includes the White Sox, Twins, Rays, Mets (maybe), and Dodgers.

 

Are there more teams where the logic adds up, and both the receiving team and the Brewers can get what they’re in the trade talks for?

 

This is one of the problems, I think...DS doesn't strike me as the type of guy that wants to literally rake someone over the coals for a player like Hader, rather he seems like the type that would want to make a "fair" deal for both sides. For some reason I can't see him even asking for someone like Gleyber for example, figuring there's no way he'd get him. I could be wrong on that, but to me, DS should be asking for the moon and hold firm on that. No one says trades have to be fair for both sides.

 

So essentially you’re saying DS needs to be a pompous prick so then GMs across baseball know that they can’t deal with the Milwaukee Brewers. That’s not how it works if you want long term relationships and GMs willing to make fair deals for all involved parties with each other but OK.

[A Swing and A Drive]

So what you are telling me is that Yankee fans are spreading internet rumors that they are on the verge of trading a couple of players that they have no place on their starting roster for (spare parts- 3B Miguel Andujar and OF Clint Frazier) to the "lowly" Brewers for the best reliever in baseball?

 

No....not Yankee fans!

 

I would speculate that these rumors are bunk.

 

Instead of refreshing this thread every couple of minutes during the holidays, I'd suggest checking back in mid-July ONLY if the Brewers are not contending.

[Brewcrewin07]

As tempting as it has been to play along, I think it’s best to be heavily skeptical (or don’t believe) accounts like MLB Marathon and the Yankee-leaning accounts. The likelihood of them being the only accounts to have anything new is super unlikely. It makes way more sense that talks are still at “Yankees are very interested, but the price is very high and hard to meet.”

 

I think saying the Brewers need an elite, overwhelming return is a bit hyperbolic. It should be significantly substantial. Those don’t sound too different, but I think there’s a fine line there, and I think this debate can often shift to extremes. For example, a guy like Lux is probably not being included.

 

If we think as objectively as possible, the teams the Brewers should be involved with should have an easy to identify, deep and varied pool of talent and a clear desire/need for Hader to push them a level up. To me that includes the White Sox, Twins, Rays, Mets (maybe), and Dodgers.

 

Are there more teams where the logic adds up, and both the receiving team and the Brewers can get what they’re in the trade talks for?

 

This is one of the problems, I think...DS doesn't strike me as the type of guy that wants to literally rake someone over the coals for a player like Hader, rather he seems like the type that would want to make a "fair" deal for both sides. For some reason I can't see him even asking for someone like Gleyber for example, figuring there's no way he'd get him. I could be wrong on that, but to me, DS should be asking for the moon and hold firm on that. No one says trades have to be fair for both sides.

 

So essentially you’re saying DS needs to be a pompous prick so then GMs across baseball know that they can’t deal with the Milwaukee Brewers. That’s not how it works if you want long term relationships and GMs willing to make fair deals for all involved parties with each other but OK.

 

So no GM in the history of baseball has totally fleeced another team, and then never ever made another trade after that?? Ok sure. You have to remember, even if Stearns takes a hardline stance on players and asks for the moon, the other team still has to be willing to give that up, and if they do, that's on them, isn't it??

[Brewcrewin07]

 

This would be called creating a negative, combative narrative in your head simply to create one. He is waiting for a deal to go down so he can be massively underwhelmed with the return and have ammo to crap on Stearns and Attanasio some more. I suggest we just wait and see what happens before tar and feathering the GM before a move even happens.

 

 

This would be 1000% false, but thanks for making an assumption. It wasn't meant to be anything other then my own thoughts on it. It doesn't make it factual, and it doesn't make it not factual. It's called an opinion. Stearns will do whatever he's going to do, and to this point, he has done a pretty damn good job. My ONLY complaint with him is he doesn't use free agency as much as I would like(I'm talking as far as bigger signings).