Hader trade ideas

[Brewcrewin07]

 

Ummm might want to do some research as Garcia ended the year in AAA.

 

Regardless, he's 20 years old and not a major league piece, not instantly anyway.

[superfly]

Soooooo what if Hader goes into a shell of sorts after what happened last season and is only a “good” reliever and not elite. Are the same people hoping for the #1, #2, and #3 prospects in baseball or no deal going to also be upset we didn’t sell high?

 

I wouldn’t give him away, but a good deal comes along and he’s gone IMO. He’s not a cornerstone in the way Yelich could and should be a career brewer from here. Deal for cheap controllable talent, rebuild farm, sign Yelich long term. That’s been Stearns MO and I don’t see it changing.

[82brewcrew82]

Next year there may be a shortage of housing on the market (currently in many places) and your house is one of the most desirable homes out there. People will pay what you want because there is very little inventory and the price is set accordingly. When you have THE most desirable home you dictate price. That's also how the market works.

The market will always dictate what your asset is worth. It's a fallacy that the owner of the asset controls that narrative. If no one is willing to pay the price, it isn't worth the price you think it is no matter how desirable you believe your asset to be. Sure, you can hold on to it and take the gamble that it may be worth more tomorrow, but then you learn they are building an outlet mall across the street and suddenly it's not quite so desirable. The gamble can cut both ways.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I mean, I know most people always thinks trades should be fair for both teams, but my question would be...why?? If you are the GM that wants an asset you have, that they know you don't HAVE to get rid of, unless you get EXACTLY what you want, then to me, you should be expected to over pay. It all comes down to how bad do you want/need that player?? And if you don't want to pay the price I'm asking, then you obviously don't want that player bad enough.

 

This exactly. I don't want to trade Hader for a "fair" return. I want a team to pay through the nose for him. If they don't, I'm hanging on to one of the top relievers in the game. If a team really wants him, they'll meet the asking price. Of course, we have no idea what that asking price is, but it better be dang high. I just don't see the Yankees as a match, despite what the national pundits think. Their system kinda sucks, and a lot of their higher ranked guys in their system are super young. I don't care how well Dominguez is ranked. I just don't have any interest in waiting around for a 16-year-old "Maybe". Andujar is a decent piece, but he's coming off a lost year, and has defensive issues.

[82brewcrew82]

 

Ummm might want to do some research as Garcia ended the year in AAA.

 

Regardless, he's 20 years old and not a major league piece, not instantly anyway.

Pretty darn close. My guess is that if we had a 20 year old starting pitcher putting up the numbers Garcia is, we'd be drooling over the potential.

[82brewcrew82]

I mean, I know most people always thinks trades should be fair for both teams, but my question would be...why?? If you are the GM that wants an asset you have, that they know you don't HAVE to get rid of, unless you get EXACTLY what you want, then to me, you should be expected to over pay. It all comes down to how bad do you want/need that player?? And if you don't want to pay the price I'm asking, then you obviously don't want that player bad enough.

 

This exactly. I don't want to trade Hader for a "fair" return. I want a team to pay through the nose for him. If they don't, I'm hanging on to one of the top relievers in the game. If a team really wants him, they'll meet the asking price. Of course, we have no idea what that asking price is, but it better be dang high. I just don't see the Yankees as a match, despite what the national pundits think. Their system kinda sucks, and a lot of their higher ranked guys in their system are super young. I don't care how well Dominguez is ranked. I just don't have any interest in waiting around for a 16-year-old "Maybe". Andujar is a decent piece, but he's coming off a lost year, and has defensive issues.

I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with this sentiment form either of you. I think the difference here is the definition of "paying through the nose". DS has a very strong track record of NOT settling and exchanging the asset he wants for the price he wants. I trust that if he does deal Hader, the return he gets will be one he considers to have been paid "through the nose". Whether that meets fans expectations is another story. I am of the opinion that the fan version of "paying through the nose" isn't realistic.

[mattyo]

I mean, I know most people always thinks trades should be fair for both teams, but my question would be...why?? If you are the GM that wants an asset you have, that they know you don't HAVE to get rid of, unless you get EXACTLY what you want, then to me, you should be expected to over pay. It all comes down to how bad do you want/need that player?? And if you don't want to pay the price I'm asking, then you obviously don't want that player bad enough.

 

I've said this before, it feels like people here have seen rumors and gone into "we have to trade Hader this offseason" mode. Which, obviously, is ridiculous since hes under cheap control for 4 years. If they Yankees aren't willing to give up huge value to pry away the best RP in baseball from a "contending" team, then you tell them to pound sand. "The Yankees will never trade X" "THey would NEVER give up X". Their loss - kick rocks.

 

Also to the people saying we should trade Hader because he "might not be elite" next year - The exact same could be said for extremely volatile MLB prospects, most of which never pan out, let alone reach the level of Hader. Furthermore, Hader at this point has a pretty extensive track record of dominance.

 

Its confounding to me the undervaluing of one of our best assets. Do people not remember the insane trade proposals people came up with for a half season of Jonathan Lucroy? My god its like everyone in that thread deleted their accounts and its all new posters in here.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I mean, I know most people always thinks trades should be fair for both teams, but my question would be...why?? If you are the GM that wants an asset you have, that they know you don't HAVE to get rid of, unless you get EXACTLY what you want, then to me, you should be expected to over pay. It all comes down to how bad do you want/need that player?? And if you don't want to pay the price I'm asking, then you obviously don't want that player bad enough.

 

This exactly. I don't want to trade Hader for a "fair" return. I want a team to pay through the nose for him. If they don't, I'm hanging on to one of the top relievers in the game. If a team really wants him, they'll meet the asking price. Of course, we have no idea what that asking price is, but it better be dang high. I just don't see the Yankees as a match, despite what the national pundits think. Their system kinda sucks, and a lot of their higher ranked guys in their system are super young. I don't care how well Dominguez is ranked. I just don't have any interest in waiting around for a 16-year-old "Maybe". Andujar is a decent piece, but he's coming off a lost year, and has defensive issues.

I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with this sentiment form either of you. I think the difference here is the definition of "paying through the nose". DS has a very strong track record of NOT settling and exchanging the asset he wants for the price he wants. I trust that if he does deal Hader, the return he gets will be one he considers to have been paid "through the nose". Whether that meets fans expectations is another story. I am of the opinion that the fan version of "paying through the nose" isn't realistic.

 

You are right. Just because I might not be as high on a guy like Garcia doesn't mean that Stearns doesn't see him as a potential TOR starting pitcher. We need to remember that the Brewers have their own value system, and it doesn't necessarily align with what national pundits or MLB Pipeline prospect lists dictate. I would just prefer the Brewers acquire players who are going to make an immediate MLB impact, rather than teenagers to dream on.

[3and2Fastball]

Stearns knows 99% more about Hader’s arm health, attitude, off the field stuff, work ethic, and trending analytics than all of us combined.... (overstating the obvious I hope)

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Stearns knows 99% more about Hader’s arm health, attitude, off the field stuff, work ethic, and trending analytics than all of us combined.... (overstating the obvious I hope)

 

Correct, which is why it's absurd for anyone to speak in absolutes. Which is why I'm speaking in scenarios. My guess is they think now is the time to cash in on Hader. Could easily be wrong.

[TURBO]

 

I didn't even say those are the two best pieces - simply they're the two that the teams apparently are in agreement on.

 

Actually, by saying they are the first two pieces makes it sound like they are the BEST two pieces. Then following it up with the sweeteners are what is holding it up, makes it sound like sweeteners are the throw ins... Sweeteners is a term not used in describing the best part of a deal, but in fact, the opposite. Sweeteners usually means throw ins or lottery tickets...

[RollieTime]

 

I didn't even say those are the two best pieces - simply they're the two that the teams apparently are in agreement on.

 

Actually, by saying they are the first two pieces makes it sound like they are the BEST two pieces. Then following it up with the sweeteners are what is holding it up, makes it sound like sweeteners are the throw ins... Sweeteners is a term not used in describing the best part of a deal, but in fact, the opposite. Sweeteners usually means throw ins or lottery tickets...

 

Ding ding ding... We have a winner! This is exactly the truth.

[brewers888]

When the off-season started I was in favor of moving Hader thinking we were going to get a package that was impossible to turn down. I had visions of star prospects like Lux leading an incredible package that would make us better for years. Now after hearing these Yankees rumors I just want to keep Hader.

 

A package headlined by a DH masquerading as a third baseman like Andujar infuriates me and should bother every Brewers fan. Unless the packages are far more enticing than the current rumors suggest we would be much better off keeping the best reliever in baseball. Hader has 4 years of control so unless someone overwhelms us we would be foolish to even consider a deal like this.

[superfly]

When the off-season started I was in favor of moving Hader thinking we were going to get a package that was impossible to turn down. I had visions of star prospects like Lux leading an incredible package that would make us better for years. Now after hearing these Yankees rumors I just want to keep Hader.

 

A package headlined by a DH masquerading as a third baseman like Andujar infuriates me and should bother every Brewers fan. Unless the packages are far more enticing than the current rumors suggest we would be much better off keeping the best reliever in baseball. Hader has 4 years of control so unless someone overwhelms us we would be foolish to even consider a deal like this.

 

I don’t understand what this venomous hate for Miguel Andujar is. Have you guys even looked at what he slashed at AA/AAA and his rookie year? Keston Hiura isn’t exactly a defensive savant himself. If Travis Shaw passed as a hybrid 3b/2b I have enough faith in counsell and Stearns to mask him enough on defense to make that bat play.

 

I want more good pieces than Andujar, but he is not a garbage player.

[jjfanec]

When the off-season started I was in favor of moving Hader thinking we were going to get a package that was impossible to turn down. I had visions of star prospects like Lux leading an incredible package that would make us better for years. Now after hearing these Yankees rumors I just want to keep Hader.

 

A package headlined by a DH masquerading as a third baseman like Andujar infuriates me and should bother every Brewers fan. Unless the packages are far more enticing than the current rumors suggest we would be much better off keeping the best reliever in baseball. Hader has 4 years of control so unless someone overwhelms us we would be foolish to even consider a deal like this.

 

I don’t understand what this venomous hate for Miguel Andujar is. Have you guys even looked at what he slashed at AA/AAA and his rookie year? Keston Hiura isn’t exactly a defensive savant himself. If Travis Shaw passed as a hybrid 3b/2b I have enough faith in counsell and Stearns to mask him enough on defense to make that bat play.

 

I want more good pieces than Andujar, but he is not a garbage player.

 

100 percent agree. If the front office thinks he can stick at 3rd they could have 3 out of IF spots filled with young, controllable, high upside players. Now I would want at least one high upside arm with him and a couple fliers.

[brewers888]

When the off-season started I was in favor of moving Hader thinking we were going to get a package that was impossible to turn down. I had visions of star prospects like Lux leading an incredible package that would make us better for years. Now after hearing these Yankees rumors I just want to keep Hader.

 

A package headlined by a DH masquerading as a third baseman like Andujar infuriates me and should bother every Brewers fan. Unless the packages are far more enticing than the current rumors suggest we would be much better off keeping the best reliever in baseball. Hader has 4 years of control so unless someone overwhelms us we would be foolish to even consider a deal like this.

 

I don’t understand what this venomous hate for Miguel Andujar is. Have you guys even looked at what he slashed at AA/AAA and his rookie year? Keston Hiura isn’t exactly a defensive savant himself. If Travis Shaw passed as a hybrid 3b/2b I have enough faith in counsell and Stearns to mask him enough on defense to make that bat play.

 

I want more good pieces than Andujar, but he is not a garbage player.

 

The blatant disregard for defense from people is astonishing. Andujar is the worst defensive third baseman in the game and his bat is nothing special. He is not even close to good enough to highlight a package for the best reliever in the game that comes with 4 years of control.

 

Why are people so eager to trade Hader for these subpar packages that are rumored. If he had one year of control and we weren’t planning on competing I could see it but with 4 years left we shouldn’t move him unless we are overwhelmed and none of these rumors qualify as anything that we should even consider.

[PeaveyFury]

Never expected to stop in on the night of Christmas day to find people arguing condescendingly about how to use Twitter.

 

If you haven't gotten the point over the past week or two, we're done with this stuff around here, guys. We received two complaints from two different uninvolved posters just today.

 

Adjust your posting style, or you'll continue to see us handing out week-long suspensions.

[MrTPlush]

To be honest Stearns has had an offseason dominated by total disregard for defense...so I don’t see why that trend can’t continue. Wouldn’t be exactly a shocking thing.

[BrewForLife]

Exactly this...very underwhelming return. I don't know how you would explain this one to the fan base, that you traded one of the teams most popular players(all star, reliever of the year etc), for pieces that do nothing to help the current team, after you proclaimed you expect to compete this year. As others have said, the haul had better be MASSIVE, like jaw dropping massive. As you stated you HAVE to get a headliner piece back, absolutely have to.

 

Because his super 2 arby numbers are going to make this player lose value and fast. I love Hader, but at his current price at best.

 

WAR/salary matters to a small market club...and there is also this from Mark Polishuk at MLBTR.com chat-->

(Would NYY GM) Cashman (make this trade?)

11:26 Frazier, Garcia, Florial for Hader.

Mark P

11:26 (Yankees GM Brian Cashman)

 

No way the Yankees offer that much

 

I am sure that if Frazier, Garcia, and Florial were offered on this board that the MKE faithful would pan the NYY offering as not enough.

 

Not everyone values our stuff like we do...whether it is a summer yard sale or winter trade prospects.

[nate82]

I don’t understand what this venomous hate for Miguel Andujar is. Have you guys even looked at what he slashed at AA/AAA and his rookie year? Keston Hiura isn’t exactly a defensive savant himself. If Travis Shaw passed as a hybrid 3b/2b I have enough faith in counsell and Stearns to mask him enough on defense to make that bat play.

 

I want more good pieces than Andujar, but he is not a garbage player.

 

According to baseball-reference

 

Similar Batters

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (971.0)

Ramon Laureano (967.6)

Jeff McNeil (946.4)

J.D. Davis (937.9)

Jesse Winker (936.2)

Bill Howerton (934.6)

George Puccinelli (934.2)

Tyler Naquin (931.7)

Austin Meadows (929.0)

David Dahl (921.9)

 

Similar Batters through 24

Ramon Laureano (967.6)

Eric Hinske (957.7)

Geoff Jenkins (950.5)

Tim Salmon (945.0)

Wally Judnich (941.6)

Terrence Long (940.4)

Pinky Higgins (936.4)

Preston Wilson (934.7)

Charlie Hickman (934.1)

Magglio Ordonez (931.1)

 

 

So two players Andujar has been linked as being similar that some wanted from the Mets. I don't really get the hate for Andujar as he is very similar to Hiura also. Andujar is also really close offensively and defensively to Castellanos. The hate for Andujar is really unjustified especially if anyone thinks he can't play the OF I wouldn't be surprised if he played as well as Braun did when he made the switch to the OF. Andujar as the #4 or #5 hitter in the lineup would be very exciting for the Brewers and would help solidify the lineup I wouldn't be surprised if Andujar is out producing Castellanos in 2020 and beyond.

 

If Stearns could get Andujar, Garcia/Dominguez, and others for Hader that is a big win for the Brewers. I believe a trade of Andujar, Dominguez/Garcia, Medina and Alcantara that is a very solid return for Hader. I don't believe the Dodgers will have either May or Lux after they trade for Lindor so I am not sure the Dodgers could beat that deal especially if the Yankees go Andujar, Dominguez, Medina and Alcantara. For the Dodgers to beat that they would have to do May/Lux, Ruiz and a low level prospect and I just don't see the Dodgers parting with both May/Lux and Ruiz.

 

I believe that will throw the Dodgers out of the running. Maybe the Phillies jump in and try but I don't like the Phillies prospects compared to the Yankees and I really don't like anyone in the Dbacks organization. The only other teams that could beat the Yankees offer would be the Twins or the Angels. If the Angels offered Adell plus lower level prospects for Hader or if the Twins offered Lewis/Graterol and Jeffers.

 

I don't believe Hader will be traded but if he were traded I believe the Yankees have the strongest hand that the Brewers like and it starts with Andujar.

[Lathund]

I think there needs to be some perspective on the defense issues with Andujar. It is indeed a real concern, especially seeing as how the rest of the Brewers infield isn't exactly elite defensively, and it takes some value off Andujar. But it's also still not a reason to dismiss it entirely. Wins come from batting, fielding, baserunning, starting pitching and relievers. It doesn't really matter how it's divided, all that matters is that the amount of runs scored/prevented from each adds up to the number needed. Despite his historically Ryan Braun-level bad defense, Andujar was still 2.2 rWAR / 2.8 fWAR / 2 WARP player in his rookie season on the basis of his 130 wRC+. As a comparison, Moose posted a 113 wRC+ this year and was worth between 2.8 and 3.2 WAR. Which both illustrates how much good defense matters, but also how it's only one part. rWAR (Which uses DRS) is the most negative about his defense, taking away 2.5 WAR based on defense alone. And he still comes out as a league-average starter. One with 4 years of team control remaining. I'm sure that if Andujar was included in a deal, Stearns would account for the defense and injury and would value him accordingly, and there would be other valuable players in there. Which is not to say that Andujar is my ideal centerpiece in a trade, just that you can have him as part of it and come out fine, it's not like he has no value.

 

One small thing that shouldn't be overlooked in a trade either is the impact of the Super 2 status. $5-6m for a reliever like Hader isn't a lot of money this year, but it also means that the 4 years remaining will be significantly more expensive than expected. And especially for a reliever, it changes his value a lot. But it changes it less for a team like the Yankees than it does for the Brewers, which can impact a trade. Because it doesn't all happen in a vacuum. Even the impact in 2020 is that a return for Hader that includes only pre-arb players and prospects means $4-5m more to spend on the roster this year. Which isn't part of the deal itself, but can be spent to improve the team. I would also expect any return to be something that both has present and future value. Jason Rogers, Jean Segura, Tyler Thornburg; all trades that featured both prospects and major leaguers of the buy-low variety. Expect this team to try to operate a lot more like the As and Rays have done recently than to go for pronounced boom-bust cycles. Moves like this, or the Chris Archer trade, would traditionally be seen as "selling" or "rebuilding" moves, but the Rays got better both long- and short term, and saved money in the process. I expect the goal will be the same.

 

Which brings me to the value of an elite reliever. It isn't what many people think it is. Chapman was an aberration, nothing in the 3½ years since has indicated that teams value relievers like that. People will argue that WAR underrates relievers, but without really presenting much concrete evidence. fWAR values high-leverage performance more than low-leverage already, and even with that in mind Hader is still "only" a 2.5 fWAR type of player. Since the word WAR creates an allergic reaction in some, let's look at it just in terms of runs. Hader has a career 2.42 ERA. If his innings get replaced by a 3.42 ERA pitcher, what impact would that have? Assuming Hader pitched 80 innings, it would result in giving up ~9 more runs across a whole season. Since it would generally be high leverage innings, you could argue that it's worth a bit more than that, but even an unrealistically optimistic view of a relievers value would at most double it. Or another way to look at it, changing Hader for that pitcher would result in an increased team ERA of 0.06. The simple fact that a reliever will only impact ~5% of a teams defensive innings, and thus 2.5% of the overall innings played, is what keeps them from having the same value as a position player or elite starter. Just look at what teams are paying the best relievers in the game compared to the best starters and hitters and it'll tell you something about how they're valued.

 

A relievers value also depends more on how good the rest of the team is than other positions do. If you already have a good team that gets a lot of late leads, an elite closer is worth more than if the team doesn't get that many leads to begin with. The extreme version is illustrated in the Chapman trade; if you already have the other tools for playoff success, an elite closer is worth more. But if you're not that elite team, then simply looking at the runs scored and runs given up overall, and trying to improve them the most, regardless of where it comes from, is probably a better bet for you.

 

There's also the intangible factors; Hader is a phenom. It's fun to watch him strike out batter after batter. Depending on your affiliation, you look forward to or dread his appearance. That's all worth something. But not as much as people probably think. And at least to me, it doesn't override the impact that a trade would have on the win-loss column (Or the runs scored-allowed one).

 

Because that's what it comes down to. At least to the teams involved in a trade. Teams might not use the publicly available versions of WAR. But they use something coneptually similar, something that (Based on how teams act) values an elite reliever less than an elite starter or position player. And less than what a lot of fans do here. Teams don't trade 5 years of Gleyber Torres for 4 years of Josh Hader. They probably don't trade 5 years of Jeff McNeil for Hader either (Although if one team was to do it it would be the lolMets). To some that means that we don't trade Hader at all. But that only really works under the assumption that he is in fact worth Gleyber Torres, that other teams are wrong on the way they value these players, that they do what they do because they're lowballing. And that there is some kind of prestige in trades, that there has to be a high-profile return. I don't believe in that. I just want whatever gives the most wins. Both now, but also in the future. And that requires less than most people think. A league average SP or position player, another reliever/platoon player/ type of player (Assuming 4+ years of control), and whatever the $4-5m you save from the trade will get you on the market already means you've come out ahead in the short term.

 

Which isn't to say I'd take a deal that offered only that, because as I alluded to the value of a reliever is fluid and depends on the team. It's what he might be worth in a vacuum, but he's worth more than that to certain teams and we should use that. And the intangibles, like excitement, marketability, ticket/merch sales, prestige and all that do exist; he's worth more than even an entirely correct estimation of his run prevention. But again; not that much more. But enough to both get back his short-term value and future value in terms of prospects. Just don't expect a deal to feature both current star players and top prospects. It's kind of either or.

 

TL;DR: Relievers aren't as valuable as you think. Hader is still worth more than the raw numbers indicate, but still not as much as you think, based on what teams pay relievers or trade for them. Get used to the idea that even if it's a return that will see the Brewers win more games in 2020 than with Hader, it will feel underwhelming to many. Especially if the Yankees end up with him; Cashman is no dummy.

[sveumrules]

To be honest Stearns has had an offseason dominated by total disregard for defense...so I don’t see why that trend can’t continue. Wouldn’t be exactly a shocking thing.

 

Smoak (-5 DRS / +0.3 UZR, 2017-19), Garcia (-1 DRS / +0.3 UZR, 2017-19) & Sogard (+2 DRS / -2.2 UZR, 2017-19) have all been pretty much average afield over the last three years.

 

Urias doesn't have a large MLB sample, but scouting reports indicate he is plus at 2B & adequate at SS.

 

The only acquisition this offseason with truly terrible defense is Narvaez, but that can be mitigated considerably by subbing in Pina for the last couple two tree innings of close games when we're ahead & possibly even moreso down the road with our potential new robot umpire overlords.

 

Sure, no true plus defenders have been acquired, but saying Stearns has shown a total disregard for defense this offseason seems a little hyperbolic.

 

The other thing to consider, is that there is far more opportunity (& we can much more accurately quantify) offensive contribution versus defensive.

 

In 2019 there were 135 qualified batters ranging from Mike Trout at +68.2 runs of offense at the top to Orlando Arcia at -27.3 runs of offense on the bottom.

 

The range for DRS from top to bottom among 107 qualifiers was +29 (Roberto Perez) to -21 (Xander Bogaerts) while the range for UZR was +14.8 (Matt Chapman) to -10.6 (Charlie Blackmon).

[clancyphile]

According to baseball-reference

 

Similar Batters

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (971.0)

Ramon Laureano (967.6)

Jeff McNeil (946.4)

J.D. Davis (937.9)

Jesse Winker (936.2)

Bill Howerton (934.6)

George Puccinelli (934.2)

Tyler Naquin (931.7)

Austin Meadows (929.0)

David Dahl (921.9)

 

Similar Batters through 24

Ramon Laureano (967.6)

Eric Hinske (957.7)

Geoff Jenkins (950.5)

Tim Salmon (945.0)

Wally Judnich (941.6)

Terrence Long (940.4)

Pinky Higgins (936.4)

Preston Wilson (934.7)

Charlie Hickman (934.1)

Magglio Ordonez (931.1)

 

 

So two players Andujar has been linked as being similar that some wanted from the Mets. I don't really get the hate for Andujar as he is very similar to Hiura also. Andujar is also really close offensively and defensively to Castellanos. The hate for Andujar is really unjustified especially if anyone thinks he can't play the OF I wouldn't be surprised if he played as well as Braun did when he made the switch to the OF. Andujar as the #4 or #5 hitter in the lineup would be very exciting for the Brewers and would help solidify the lineup I wouldn't be surprised if Andujar is out producing Castellanos in 2020 and beyond.

 

If Stearns could get Andujar, Garcia/Dominguez, and others for Hader that is a big win for the Brewers. I believe a trade of Andujar, Dominguez/Garcia, Medina and Alcantara that is a very solid return for Hader. I don't believe the Dodgers will have either May or Lux after they trade for Lindor so I am not sure the Dodgers could beat that deal especially if the Yankees go Andujar, Dominguez, Medina and Alcantara. For the Dodgers to beat that they would have to do May/Lux, Ruiz and a low level prospect and I just don't see the Dodgers parting with both May/Lux and Ruiz.

 

I believe that will throw the Dodgers out of the running. Maybe the Phillies jump in and try but I don't like the Phillies prospects compared to the Yankees and I really don't like anyone in the Dbacks organization. The only other teams that could beat the Yankees offer would be the Twins or the Angels. If the Angels offered Adell plus lower level prospects for Hader or if the Twins offered Lewis/Graterol and Jeffers.

 

I don't believe Hader will be traded but if he were traded I believe the Yankees have the strongest hand that the Brewers like and it starts with Andujar.

 

I tend to agree. I think if he performs as he did in 2018/2019, he will still draw a very good haul.

 

That said, if the Mets offered a package of McNeil and Davis - I'd take it straight up for Hader.

 

At this point, I would want a good mix of MLB-ready talent AND prospects from the Yankees. OR, put it this way, I'd go Hader-Lutz for Torres, Andujar, Dominguez, and Garcia.

[StearnsFTW]

I'd be good with McNeil/Diaz/top 5 Mets pitching prospect for Hader. Obviously counting on a Doaz bounceback, but I think it makes us better potentially. McNeil is a really nice player in my opinion.

 

I'm not interested in any deal centered on Andujar.

[brewcrewdue80]

Andujar. Had a good hitting rookie season. Suffered season ending torn labrum surgery back in May. At the time he had a -9runs offensively on top of the defensive issues. To take him in is expecting his rookie year not only wasn't a fluke(because it has that appearance) but also that this torn labrum surgery was a success and he's going to be just like he was in 2018. I call bull on that.

 

taken from an article on MLB

Andujar sustained the tear by diving back into third base in the Yankees' third game of the season. Though the Yankees initially believed that Andujar's injury would not affect his hitting, Andujar was 3-for-34 (.088) after being activated from the injured list on May 4.

 

Injured goods, with 0 proof that he won't remain injured goods. Already poor defensively, how does he return from surgery? It can't be better defensively, it can only be worse. Does his amazing 2018 out of practically nowhere reappear? This is what Yankees fan dream of in getting rid of him because he's likely toast and 2.2WAR season is the best he'll ever be. Not one trade idea involving Hader should include him in it. He'd only be a PTBNL worthy after he's spent 2months playing professional ball and showing if he's even a glimmer of his former self.

Mark Polishek can go take his opinion and shove it. Frazier is an OF, Florial is an OF. Garcia is the only one that makes sense, and even mentioning Frazier, is another Yankee rid away a trash/mistake and get elite in return. Frazier probably has 0 or 1 options remaining. None of that fits the current Brewers roster. Florial at 22 in A+ ball just completed a .237/.297 season. Has a 45 hit tool according to MLB. What does that do for Milw moving forward.

 

Edit add: Also Garcia has Red Flags. He's 5'9" and usually those stats are elevated when so short. Had 5.4ERA at AAA in 40IP. What does this remind you of? Tyler Thornburg, who just can't cut it due to the stature. Had a 4.5BB/9 basically at AA and AAA. Sure he's only 20 but look at Freddy Peralta, dinged due to being 5'11" and maybe that can explain is struggles at times. You want 6'1" or taller ideally up to 6'6" Garcia is battling uphill in a downhill battle.

 

to point: MLB says this on #5 ranked 6'1" Clark Schmidt(who sound more promising that Garcia or Gil)

 

His 6-foot-1 frame doesn't create a lot of downhill plane on his pitches, and his size and less-than-smooth delivery created concerns about his durability even before he blew out his elbow. He has the best four-pitch mix among Yankees pitching prospects, so they will continue to develop him as a starter.