Hader trade ideas

[82brewcrew82]

If the rumors of Stearns wanting top notch prospects in return for Hader are true I think the starting point is Dominguez from the Yankees plus Medina and a lower level prospect like Kevin Alcantara. I think this board would be holding pitch forks if this is the return Stearns gets for Hader. I think most on this board want major league ready or players in the majors already for Hader and I just don't see Stearns making a deal like that.

 

I am going to repeat this but I truly believe Stearns is looking for prospects being the headliners in any deal that involves Hader.

There is nothing in those reports that suggest he is ONLY looking for prospects. Just that he is looking for prospects which very well could mean prospects in addition to major league ready talent.

[82brewcrew82]

The Yankee farm system seems way overhyped and it sounds like Garcia is headed to the pen and Dominguez is 16.

 

 

Torres

 

For

 

Hader and Arcia

 

Hang up the phone if Cashman is his usual self.

This isn't going to happen. Not ever. So the choice is to trade Hader at his highest value or hold on to him. There is a lot of uncontrollable risk in holding but I certainly see the value in that as well. Personally, I'd deal him if DS feels the price is right.

[3and2Fastball]

Gleybar Day in Milwaukee would be a very good day. I’m not buying it as reality that the Yankees would go there though

[RollieTime]

Realistically, there is no way that Stearns goes into negotiations not expecting one of Torres, Severino, or Judge coming back in my opinion. Whether he is able to pry one away, we shall (maybe) see. Again, Hader is not being traded for the Yankees’ spare parts that they don’t need. Stearns is not going to trade Hader for a bunch of “meh” players.

 

If Hader is moved and it’s only between the Yankees and Brewers, I will be shocked if one of those three aren’t included in the Brewers’ return. The only other possibility is if the Yankees give up so much solid talent that they might pull the trigger, something like Clint Frazier, Miguel Andujar, Gio Urshela, Deivi Garcia, and Jasson Dominguez.

 

The Brewers need to be absolutely blown away to pull the trigger, and something like Andujar plus a couple prospects really does not trip the trigger in my opinion. I just see no way it’s even considered unless an all-star talent such as the big three listed above are included in the return package.

 

I know it’s a big debate of two sides one being “people are going to be extremely underwhelmed” or “most of these trades being proposed are terrible for the Brewers”, but realistically, if you were going to trade FOR Hader right now, what would we need to give up?

 

I would say we would be extremely hesitant to do it because most of us here would be saying there’s no way one of Hiura or Woodruff is not included. Something like Woodruff, AND Turang, AND Lutz, AND Peralta.

 

But when it’s us who has the absolute most prized reliever in the entire game for 4 years, we think spare parts will do it.

 

The Yankees just do not have the prospects to get it done. And if they aren’t going to include Judge, Severino, or Torres, you tell them to pound sand.

 

We hold all the cards. Stearns has all the leverage. The Yankees shouldn’t even be calling if they are going to offend us by offering us their bench bats and quite frankly useless defenders in the field. How is that for an absolute slap in the face to Stearns being offered bench pieces from Cashman to come in and be our everyday guys? That’s not a good way to go about negotiations as a GM.

 

Yes, if I wanted Hader, I would love to give up our role players and backend top 100 prospects for the greatest reliever in the game for 4 years. But to me, that is completely unrealistic. So why is it so unrealistic for us to shoot for the moon and not lower our standards? Either it’s high end quality major league players with multiple years of control or multiple top 50 prospects.

 

The Yankees will need to trade from the major league roster to get a deal done and taking their bench bats to give them the best reliever in the game for 4 years is not exactly an even trade in my eyes. Stearns would have a tough time selling that to the fans.

 

The Yankees will need to step up if they want to make a real run at getting Hader. Severino, Torres, or Judge or no deal. Severino is probably the most realistic and would be a nice arm to pair at the top of the rotation with Woodruff for the next 4 years.

[RollieTime]

The Yankee farm system seems way overhyped and it sounds like Garcia is headed to the pen and Dominguez is 16.

 

 

Torres

 

For

 

Hader and Arcia

 

Hang up the phone if Cashman is his usual self.

 

Exactly. Hader is being moved for legit high end talent and not a bunch of guys with low ceilings and roster filler. It’s going to be an impact player if Cashman really wants Hader.

[82brewcrew82]

I would be willing to bet large sums of money that if Hader is traded to the Yankess that the deal would not include any of Severino, Judge or Torres. If I had any of those players, I wouldn't trade any of them for Hader. I don't think Hiura or Woodruff are in that class yet so yes, I'd expect to have to trade one of those players but I wouldn't do it. In my opinion there is a certain amount of risk that comes with acquiring Hader and that has to be factored in.

[3and2Fastball]

I really think if Andujar was going to be the center piece of the trade, the trade would have already happened. I think if the Yankees offered Andujar, Stearns said “get real” and hung up...

[adambr2]

You guys should stop hanging up on opposing GMs all the time. Don't be rude. Just be open minded and hear them out.

[anglotiger]

We hold all the cards. Stearns has all the leverage.

 

This is true. Given that, it's interesting that we keep hearing about ongoing negotiations - if the two teams weren't even in the same ballpark in terms of the players involved, would talks still be ongoing?

[wisportsfan4]

Like others on here, I'm in the same camp on the Hader negotiations.

 

I, and I suspect many others, would NOT be keen on trading the best reliever in the game at his peak when this team's time to compete (aka win enough to convince Yelich to sign an extension) is RIGHT NOW.

 

There's absolutely only two scenarios right now where I think it makes sense. (although either of those address how we would replace Josh).

 

1) Trade him to the Dodgers for Gavin Lux. I think this scenario is realistic if the Dodgers acquire Lindor and/or Clevinger from Cleveland. Why? Their front office can give all the lip service they want about wanting to keep Lux, but if they acquire two players of Lindor and Clevinger's caliber, they're going to be under more pressure than ever to win next year. Which is why I think they'd be willing to part with a piece like Lux for an elite reliever to lock down games.

 

2) Trade him to the Yanks for Gleyber Torres. I'm not sold on the Brewers being OK with Dominguez, or other prospects for Hader. Explain to me how a 17 year old kid helps us right now? Given we don't need to trade Hader, I'm either dealing him for Torres or telling Cashman to f%^& off.

[wibadgers23]

How is Andujar’s health? I see he had shoulder surgery back in May and never returned.

[baumer16]

We hold all the cards. Stearns has all the leverage.

 

This is true. Given that, it's interesting that we keep hearing about ongoing negotiations - if the two teams weren't even in the same ballpark in terms of the players involved, would talks still be ongoing?

 

Trades can take months. Stearns has said before on previous trades that they started talking weeks to months before the trade actually happened. Especially in case like this where we don’t have to move him now. The secondary pieces will be key and that’s probably what the hold up is. This is a big deal for both teams. You want to be right.

[brewers888]

I would much rather keep Hader than trade him for a package highlighted by Andujar who is not only the worst defensive third baseman in the game but possibly the worst defender at any position. I just don't see any way we matchup with them unless Torres is coming back. We need extreme quality coming back in any Hader deal and not a huge package of mediocrity.

 

Has anyone thought of what kind of hit this teams chances take without Hader on it. We have a rotation full of 5 inning guys and have to have a super bullpen to be a playoff team. Taking Hader off this roster and replacing him with a butcher at third base plus some mediocre prospects means we are no longer contenders. If we are going down that road we may as well reboot and move Yelich as well. Either do everything we can to win it all with Yelich on the team which means either keeping Hader in the fold or getting real difference makers for both now and the next few seasons ahead or just start over and deal every veteran with value.

 

To tell you the truth I have no interest in giving the yankees the final piece to a super team unless its an extreme overpay and I have seen no rumors to suggest that is the case. The yankees farm system is trash so I really hope we don't make any deals with them at all.

[brewcrewdue80]

I feel as if Andujar is going to be tough to leave out of any deal. One question as we continue this exercise because I'm not too smart when it comes to baseball. How does Andujar being brutal in the field affect the team compared to Arcia being brutal at the plate? I know that's not who he'd be replacing. I guess my question is where do you think the Brewers see better value? Good/great defense and terrible offense or (potentially) good/great offense and poor defense? Are we mayyybe underrating Andujar's potential a bit because his concern is already throughout the team?

 

This is an easy answer due to who it includes. You stick with Arcia's defense and weak bat. Reason being he can be batted 8th or even 9th.

Andujar is not a top of the order bat. So he's going to bat 5th or 6th maybe even 7th since he's returning from injury and not proven that he deserves a top 6 slot in the batting order. So his weak defense that is on display for 9Innings a game vs Arcia who provides the defense 9innings in a game and bottom of the batting order hidden offense.

 

I think if this were a Trout with his immense Offense and he came with Andujar's defense you are going to choose Trout becase he can bat 1st or 2nd and provide that positive far more often.

 

Essentially it's something like batting:

1st sees 750 PAs

3rd sees 716 PAs

5th sees 684 PAs

7th sees 647 PAs

8th sees 627 PAs

9th sees 608 PAs

 

That's about 18% less than 1st for an 8th in order bat.

At 5 it's about 9% less.

 

You can't hide him on defense that due to age likely worsens, whereas Arcia due to age can improve on his batting. You would have to think Andujar has a Lux type of ceiling and that is hard to do when he's a .736OPS career minor league hitter with .866 at AAA.

 

I mean it is awful to dream on Andujar who is a DH only player moving forward in return on a Hader trade.

 

 

How about Houston. Ask for Forrest Whitley, Cionel Perez, Abraham Toro, and Jordan Brewer as a throw in. That is #1, former top 10, #5, and the throw in since he's a "Brewer" actually interesting has a tie to the Badgers as a potential recruit. this sounds like a Monte Harrison type player needing lots of baseball experience.

 

Toro is a switch hitter 3b/1b only 22. Perez is their #5 prospect of 2018 who starts done in the minors, but has pitched (poorly) as a brief RP for Houston thus far having lost his prospect status. 23 yrs old and Lefty, kinda a replacement for Hader in a couple seasons? but maybe he can be a starter too. Whitley is a guy dreamed as a #1 starter and had a poor season in 2019 reducing some of that shine. You know how a few of these have gone, Lucas Giolito/Tyler Glasnow. Live up to that #1 status and it's a steal for Milwaukee.

Why would Houston do this trade? Lost Will Harris, Roberto Osuna has 2 years left on contract. Whitley may never have this kind of value as he does still. Perez/Toro are lower in their pecking order. Fans can be happy that they traded back for Hader.

[Brewcrewin07]

I would much rather keep Hader than trade him for a package highlighted by Andujar who is not only the worst defensive third baseman in the game but possibly the worst defender at any position. I just don't see any way we matchup with them unless Torres is coming back. We need extreme quality coming back in any Hader deal and not a huge package of mediocrity.

 

Has anyone thought of what kind of hit this teams chances take without Hader on it. We have a rotation full of 5 inning guys and have to have a super bullpen to be a playoff team. Taking Hader off this roster and replacing him with a butcher at third base plus some mediocre prospects means we are no longer contenders. If we are going down that road we may as well reboot and move Yelich as well. Either do everything we can to win it all with Yelich on the team which means either keeping Hader in the fold or getting real difference makers for both now and the next few seasons ahead or just start over and deal every veteran with value.

 

To tell you the truth I have no interest in giving the yankees the final piece to a super team unless its an extreme overpay and I have seen no rumors to suggest that is the case. The yankees farm system is trash so I really hope we don't make any deals with them at all.

 

 

I agree with this 100%...You cannot trade Hader unless you will be significantly better NOW with what you get, then what you would lose in Hader. Unless Stearns gets whatever he wants, you simply don't trade him. Period. For me, if I'm Stearns, I echo an earlier post. I demand Torres as at least one piece. Anything that doesn't include him, my answer is no, and would always be no.

 

One thing that also needs to be considered..I know GM's have to make a lot of tough decisions, but in all honesty if you trade Hader, you HAVE to be ready to explain to the fans why you did, and if the package is underwhelming, you can expect a lot of blow back, and whether it's right or wrong, trading someone like Josh who has such a "cult" following, would have consequences from fans. That's just reality when you trade a popular player.

[brewerhuman]

Just spitballing for the sake of different packages, but could you ask for Lamahieu, Severino/Paxton, and a prospect? I think I'm mostly trying to avoid and Andujar inclusion in this exercise, but how off is this?

[mattyo]

I feel as if Andujar is going to be tough to leave out of any deal. One question as we continue this exercise because I'm not too smart when it comes to baseball. How does Andujar being brutal in the field affect the team compared to Arcia being brutal at the plate? I know that's not who he'd be replacing. I guess my question is where do you think the Brewers see better value? Good/great defense and terrible offense or (potentially) good/great offense and poor defense? Are we mayyybe underrating Andujar's potential a bit because his concern is already throughout the team?

 

This is an easy answer due to who it includes. You stick with Arcia's defense and weak bat. Reason being he can be batted 8th or even 9th.

Andujar is not a top of the order bat. So he's going to bat 5th or 6th maybe even 7th since he's returning from injury and not proven that he deserves a top 6 slot in the batting order. So his weak defense that is on display for 9Innings a game vs Arcia who provides the defense 9innings in a game and bottom of the batting order hidden offense.

 

I think if this were a Trout with his immense Offense and he came with Andujar's defense you are going to choose Trout becase he can bat 1st or 2nd and provide that positive far more often.

 

Essentially it's something like batting:

1st sees 750 PAs

3rd sees 716 PAs

5th sees 684 PAs

7th sees 647 PAs

8th sees 627 PAs

9th sees 608 PAs

 

That's about 18% less than 1st for an 8th in order bat.

At 5 it's about 9% less.

 

You can't hide him on defense that due to age likely worsens, whereas Arcia due to age can improve on his batting. You would have to think Andujar has a Lux type of ceiling and that is hard to do when he's a .736OPS career minor league hitter with .866 at AAA.

 

I mean it is awful to dream on Andujar who is a DH only player moving forward in return on a Hader trade.

 

 

How about Houston. Ask for Forrest Whitley, Cionel Perez, Abraham Toro, and Jordan Brewer as a throw in. That is #1, former top 10, #5, and the throw in since he's a "Brewer" actually interesting has a tie to the Badgers as a potential recruit. this sounds like a Monte Harrison type player needing lots of baseball experience.

Toro is a switch hitter 3b/1b only 22. Perez is their #5 prospect of 2018 who starts done in the minors, but has pitched (poorly) as a brief RP for Houston thus far having lost his prospect status. 23 yrs old and Lefty, kinda a replacement for Hader in a couple seasons? but maybe he can be a starter too. Whitley is a guy dreamed as a #1 starter and had a poor season in 2019 reducing some of that shine. You know how a few of these have gone, Lucas Giolito/Tyler Glasnow. Live up to that #1 status and it's a steal for Milwaukee.

Why would Houston do this trade? Lost Will Harris, Roberto Osuna has 2 years left on contract. Whitley may never have this kind of value as he does still. Perez/Toro are lower in their pecking order. Fans can be happy that they traded back for Hader.

 

This is an interesting suggestion, well done. Whitley of course has the upside of a future Cy Young type starter, but had a pretty poor 2019 by his lofty standards. I think this is much closer to realistic value for Hader than anything the Yankees would offer, and would love to see Whitley as a return, though it would be a significant gamble. I would way rather do this than any trade centered around Andujar and overhyped Yankees garbage.

[wntrtxn21]

If the rumors of Stearns wanting top notch prospects in return for Hader are true I think the starting point is Dominguez from the Yankees plus Medina and a lower level prospect like Kevin Alcantara. I think this board would be holding pitch forks if this is the return Stearns gets for Hader. I think most on this board want major league ready or players in the majors already for Hader and I just don't see Stearns making a deal like that.

 

I am going to repeat this but I truly believe Stearns is looking for prospects being the headliners in any deal that involves Hader.

 

IMO Stearns is looking for MLB ready prospects, not a 16 year old and a guy who is still in rookie ball. They both are too far away to know IF they will be even close to MLB players. I'm not sure any of the Yankees top prospects would interest Stearns unless he got a good MLB player to go along with the prospects. If he is going to decimate his pen, he needs to get immediate help at a position of dire need.

[RollieTime]

Just spitballing for the sake of different packages, but could you ask for Lamahieu, Severino/Paxton, and a prospect? I think I'm mostly trying to avoid and Andujar inclusion in this exercise, but how off is this?

 

LeMahieu and Paxton both only have one year left on their deals. So I would say no, it’s not realistic for a return if those are the main two pieces. If it’s Severino, it could work. If the prospect is then Dominguez, now you might have Stearns’ attention with a Severino, Dominguez, LeMahieu/Andujar return. LeMahieu could be the stopgap at third for this season or Andujar could be the backup at first and play some third with Severino slotting in at the top of the rotation with Woodruff, while getting an extremely young and talented prospect with massive upside.

[PDCBalla]

[mattyo]

 

 

This is just some random twitter account with 1k twitter followers. Better off ignoring it until we get confirmation from an actual account with new information.

[anglotiger]

 

 

This is just some random twitter account with 1k twitter followers. Better off ignoring it until we get confirmation from an actual account with new information.

 

Is it just me, or does this feel like some elevated temperatures again...?

[BrewForLife]

How about Houston. Ask for Forrest Whitley, Cionel Perez, Abraham Toro, and Jordan Brewer as a throw in.

 

Whitley has always had a lot going for him. Not often you can poach a TOR at minimum wage...if he pans out.

Toro...man oh man...kid looks good. I could see him at AAA until Healy/Sogard play themselves out or injuries take hold.

 

A Perez rebound would be icing if the other two work this year and Brewer is young enough to be considered a decent lottery ticket.

 

I like this a lot for the Astros as well as they don't have a ton of lefty relievers killing it right now and this addition would move everyone's bullpen rank down a level.

 

The Astros have SOOO much depth and talent that it will be interesting to see where the Taylor Jones and Abraham Toros go if they don't stick around in HOU. So much of their MLB top 30 are due up in 2019 and 2020 and have no place to go.

[clancyphile]

I would much rather keep Hader than trade him for a package highlighted by Andujar who is not only the worst defensive third baseman in the game but possibly the worst defender at any position. I just don't see any way we matchup with them unless Torres is coming back. We need extreme quality coming back in any Hader deal and not a huge package of mediocrity.

 

Has anyone thought of what kind of hit this teams chances take without Hader on it. We have a rotation full of 5 inning guys and have to have a super bullpen to be a playoff team. Taking Hader off this roster and replacing him with a butcher at third base plus some mediocre prospects means we are no longer contenders. If we are going down that road we may as well reboot and move Yelich as well. Either do everything we can to win it all with Yelich on the team which means either keeping Hader in the fold or getting real difference makers for both now and the next few seasons ahead or just start over and deal every veteran with value.

 

To tell you the truth I have no interest in giving the yankees the final piece to a super team unless its an extreme overpay and I have seen no rumors to suggest that is the case. The yankees farm system is trash so I really hope we don't make any deals with them at all.

 

 

I agree with this 100%...You cannot trade Hader unless you will be significantly better NOW with what you get, then what you would lose in Hader. Unless Stearns gets whatever he wants, you simply don't trade him. Period. For me, if I'm Stearns, I echo an earlier post. I demand Torres as at least one piece. Anything that doesn't include him, my answer is no, and would always be no.

 

One thing that also needs to be considered..I know GM's have to make a lot of tough decisions, but in all honesty if you trade Hader, you HAVE to be ready to explain to the fans why you did, and if the package is underwhelming, you can expect a lot of blow back, and whether it's right or wrong, trading someone like Josh who has such a "cult" following, would have consequences from fans. That's just reality when you trade a popular player.

 

One of the benefits of what I wanted from the Mets (McNeil/Davis headlining) is very simple:

We have acquired players who can protect Yelich and Hiura in the lineup over the next five years.

[RollieTime]

 

Here are two trade ideas that would make me consider moving Hader to either the Phillies or Diamondbacks (if we were to make a deal with them).

 

Phillies Trade:

 

Phillies Receive:

LHP Josh Hader

 

Brewers Receive:

RHP Seranthony Dominguez (5 years control of reliever)

3B/1B Alec Bohm (Phillies #1 Prospect)

RHP Spencer Howard (Phillies #2 Prospect)

OF Mickey Moniak (Phillies #8 Prospect)

 

Dominguez is brought in to replace Hader’s spot in the bullpen. The other 3 prospects will all have a chance at making the big league club at some point in 2020.

 

Diamondbacks Trade:

 

Diamondbacks Receive:

LHP Josh Hader

 

Brewers Receive:

RHP Luke Weaver (4 years control for starting pitcher)

OF Alek Thomas (Diamondbacks #1 Prospect)

1B/OF Seth Beer (Diamondbacks #4 Prospect)

C Daulton Varsho (Diamondbacks #5 Prospect)

 

Brewers get a mid rotation starting pitcher with 4 years of control, bumping Houser to the bullpen where he showed very well last season. Varsho could possibly be the Brewers’ catcher of the future while adding a legit 1B prospect to the system and an OF prospect in Thomas that is at least a couple years away, but has a ton of upside.