Hader trade ideas

[wntrtxn21]

In one of Heyman's articles he states that the Brewers are looking for a top prospect(s) in return for Hader. So I am assuming that means they are looking at a prospect laden deal versus a deal that will be major league ready or major league players heavy.

 

Hader to NYM

 

prospects KSmith, Baty, FAlvarez and Arcia and Lowrie to PIT (PIT new GM buying low, taking on payroll, and absorbing young controllable talent).

 

and to MKE:

 

Ke'Bryan Hayes (Hayes continues to improve as a hitter. He's always had a solid approach at the plate, but it's become even more refined, with a walk rate that went up for a third straight season in 2018. So did his ability to drive the ball. While he still largely uses a contact-first approach, Hayes set career highs in extra-base hits and slugging percentage, and there's more over-the-fence power to come as he matures and continues to add strength. That might slow him down a touch, but he's still smart enough on the basepaths to steal bases. There might not be a better defensive third baseman in the Minors, with his agility, hands, arm and instincts all pointing to future Gold Glove awards.

 

Hayes will be 22 years old for all of the 2019 season, with plenty of room for growth from an already-impressive toolset. He has every chance to be an elite-level third baseman at the big league level.)

 

Peterson (former #1 pick and LH starter from NYM---Peterson's fastball is average in terms of velocity, as he'll sit at 89-91 mph and touch 93, but few starters in the Minors can sink and command it as well as he does. Logging 127 1/3 innings in his first full season, Peterson yielded only two home runs (0.14 HR/9) and posted the third-best ground-ball rate (64.5%) in the Minors among qualified pitchers. He combines his heater with an above-average slider that nets him whiffs as an out pitch, while his changeup, which flashes above-average, gives him a weapon against right-handed hitters. He fills out his four-pitch mix with a fringy curveball that he can throw for a strike.

 

Despite a lower arm slot from his 6-foot-6 frame, Peterson has demonstrated outstanding control of all his pitches, even if he can stand to refine his overall command some. Average bat-missing ability and a knack for inducing weak, ground-ball contact points to more of a floor than a ceiling for Peterson, but it might not take him that long to reach his potential as a No. 3 or 4 starter.)

 

Ashcraft (At 6-foot-5 and closing in on 200 pounds, Ashcraft is the prototypical athletic and projectable high school right-hander. He's been up to 94 mph consistently already, and with his frame, he's likely to add strength and velocity as he matures and he throws his fastball with excellent extension, angle and sink. His slider was up to 82-85 mph in the GCL and could give him a second plus pitch in time. The changeup is behind the other two pitches, but he has a feel for it and there's confidence it will catch up and be at least an average offering.)

 

"Not enough for this guy, No way ____ will go for that... blah blah blah" Don't think it directly works? Then fill in the gaps, but the essence is...

 

We don't want to pay 5mil+ for a RP with a sub 3WAR for years to come because it will not be good value.

KBHayes' father played in MKE and this kid has the glove NOW...let him grow into a solid 3B and take the lumps but hope that his #36 MLB prospects ranking holds true. Peterson has attributes and is a lefty as we covet the hell out of them recently.

 

Given the WAR on TGrisham and ZDavies that went out...this is a comparable haul and should be the expectation of a team run by a value oriented GM.

 

Nowhere near enough for Hader. Peterson at AA: more hits than IPs and .283 BA against. Ashcraft is still in rookie ball and 4.58 ERA there. He's 4-5 years away. Hayes is absolutely nothing to get excited about other than his glove. AAA ball .264 avg/.745 OPS. Way, way too little for Hader.

[BrewForLife]

I thought that would be a popular reply that is why I wrote, "Not enough for this guy, No way ____ will go for that... blah blah blah" Don't think it directly works? Then fill in the gaps...send KSmith to MKE rather than Peterson, take a player from PIT and send it to MKE, etc...

 

But I am not as high on Hader as others on this board solely based on his WAR, how up and down relievers are year in and year out, and the availability of RPs on the market each and every year.

 

We are trading combined 2.5 WAR from 2019 that will cost 7.7mil (at its cheapest) for 6+ years of control in a black hole of a position with precious nothing in the system that makes Ryon Healy look like an answer for a playoff team. Hayes becomes our best prospect by far...but if you don't like the haul then shift things around, but the Heyman quote makes me think that we are going for sustainability in a long lasting program (save money, get playable kids under control, re-sign Yelich with the savings).

 

Think Duke basketball's sustainability over the decades vs the splash and quick fade of Michigan's Fab Five and then nothing after that...that is value.

 

I don't think we could get JMcNeil from the NYM straight up for Hader right now...the value play is in kids and buying low.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Wow some of these suggested returns on a Hader trade are earth shatteringly bad. My goodness.

 

Merry Christmas to whichever team gets 4 years of Hader for a handful of run of the mill prospects I guess.

[Eye Black]

Wow some of these suggested returns on a Hader trade are earth shatteringly bad. My goodness.

By all means, please offer up your own suggestions.

 

And no, the Dodgers aren’t trading one of the top three prospects in baseball for a reliever, so...

[clancyphile]

With the White Sox:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-19615/

 

White Sox Get:

LHP Josh Hader

 

Brewers get:

IF Nick Madrigal

IF Danny Mendick

C Zach Collins

LHP Bernardo Flores

1B Gavin Sheets

[wntrtxn21]

With the White Sox:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-19615/

 

White Sox Get:

LHP Josh Hader

 

Brewers get:

IF Nick Madrigal

IF Danny Mendick

C Zach Collins

LHP Bernardo Flores

1B Gavin Sheets

 

Only one guy in the Sox top 10 prospects and that's Madrigal who is a 2B only. They tried him at 3B and SS and he quickly returned to 2B. Blocked by Huira, so no need for him. Collins is a catcher with power, walks a lot, but he whiffs at alarming rates. He's a hit-or-miss guy that usually doesn't stick around long. Flores is 24 and still in AA. More hits than IPs, not a big K guy. He's the throw-in with this deal. Mendick is a nice prospect at 3B, but power is the concern.

Now if the Sox said Vaughn-Kopech (coming off TJ surgery, but has looked great in the fall), with the throw-in Mendick, I'd jump at that for Hader.

[Eye Black]

Only one guy in the Sox top 10 prospects and that's Madrigal who is a 2B only. They tried him at 3B and SS and he quickly returned to 2B. Blocked by Huira, so no need for him. Collins is a catcher with power, walks a lot, but he whiffs at alarming rates. He's a hit-or-miss guy that usually doesn't stick around long. Flores is 24 and still in AA. More hits than IPs, not a big K guy. He's the throw-in with this deal. Mendick is a nice prospect at 3B, but power is the concern.

Now if the Sox said Vaughn-Kopech (coming off TJ surgery, but has looked great in the fall), with the throw-in Mendick, I'd jump at that for Hader.

This is a fantastic example of how it’s possible to disagree with someone else’s trade proposal, but use the premise to construct other ideas and move the conversation forward.

 

The White Sox are interesting because they seem motivated to improve the major league team in a hurry, but I would agree that the return wouldn’t be ideal for Milwaukee. Nick Madrigal and Zack Collins are two players I’m lower on than their prospect pedigree, and as noted if Hiura remains in the Brewers future plans than Madrigal would be limited in near-term opportunities. Regarding Michael Kopech, he is a fascinating player in that his range of potential outcomes seems vast, even as he approaches 24 years old. He could develop into Noah Syndergaard or he could seemingly never throw meaningful innings as a big league starter. He would be a risky upside play, but if it paid off he could be a future front of the rotation arm.

 

Ultimately I think for the a Hader trade to make sense the Brewers need at least one piece that will have an immediate impact at the MLB level since they are seemingly still trying to compete for the division and league championship next year.

[NievesNoNO]

 

Ultimately I think for the a Hader trade to make sense the Brewers need at least one piece that will have an immediate impact at the MLB level since they are seemingly still trying to compete for the division and league championship next year.

 

This is where I'm having a hard time seeing the Brewers trading Hader. You really have to find a team that has very good, young spare MLB parts or high end advanced prospects or you're making a volume prospect deal like you we're rebuilding.

 

I think there are teams that could meet that but the Yankees aren't one (without a 3rd team being involved).

[mlloyd10]

If we trade Hader to Whitesox, Andrew Vaughn fro Hader straight up.

[JosephC]

With the White Sox:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-19615/

 

White Sox Get:

LHP Josh Hader

 

Brewers get:

IF Nick Madrigal

IF Danny Mendick

C Zach Collins

LHP Bernardo Flores

1B Gavin Sheets

 

Biggest problem with this deal is the Brewers can only play one guy at first base at a time.

 

I wouldn't hesitate at all in picking up a guy like Madrigal. The guy can flat out hit and figures to be a plus-plus second baseman. Looks like 1B can be open for the Brewers in 2021 so Hiura can grab that first base glove next off-season.

 

I don't think Zach Collins will catch at the MLB level. Sounds like his bat could be for real as the White Sox may DH him if they don't sign Encarnacion. But if we are talking about an NL team, Collins probably has to play first base. For those who say that Stearns is going with the worst defensive catcher in baseball in 2020 so bad defense from Collins really shouldn't matter...obviously that's something I cannot argue with.

 

And then there is Sheets....so of the five pieces....Hiura is probably forced to move to first in 2021, Collins is a first baseman and Sheets is a first baseman....so IMO these combined pieces don't make sense for Milwaukee.

 

I have the five players total combining for 66-67 million in prospect surplus value (Madrigal accounts for over 70% of that), that would be excellent value for the Brewers if they could get that type of return.

[mlloyd10]

Hader and Turang for Ruiz and Urias

[mattyo]

Wow some of these suggested returns on a Hader trade are earth shatteringly bad. My goodness.

By all means, please offer up your own suggestions.

 

And no, the Dodgers aren’t trading one of the top three prospects in baseball for a reliever, so...

 

 

Then you tell the Dodgers, or whatever team not willing to give up actual value, to piss off and you keep your elite RP for the next four years. That was easy, wasn't it?

 

It feels like people here are married to the idea that we need to get rid of him, despite the fact that the only reports have said that Brewers are "willing to listen" on Hader. Well, if you have followed the Brewers since Stearns has been in charge, that is his M.O. on every single guy. We aren't trading our best RP for scraps. We aren't trading our best RP for "equal value." And of that we can be sure, it's what Stearns does and is why I feel very comfortable in saying 90% of the trades proposed in this thread are too little and completely improbable.

[baumer16]

Yankee guy @simonettisource on Twitter is saying Yankees are pushing hard for Hader and the Brewers feel YanKees are a match. Just a matter of if Yankees are willing to meet the high asking price.

 

Gary Sheffield Jr also said on Twitter Hader talks are heating up.

[wibadgers23]

I wondered now that Betances went to the Mets if discussions between the Brewers and Yankees would really heat up. We’ll see what happens.

[mattyo]

Yankee guy @simonettisource on Twitter is saying Yankees are pushing hard for Hader and the Brewers feel YanKees are a match. Just a matter of if Yankees are willing to meet the high asking price.

 

Gary Sheffield Jr also said on Twitter Hader talks are heating up.

 

Let them push until they give the world

[82brewcrew82]

Yankee guy @simonettisource on Twitter is saying Yankees are pushing hard for Hader and the Brewers feel YanKees are a match. Just a matter of if Yankees are willing to meet the high asking price.

 

Gary Sheffield Jr also said on Twitter Hader talks are heating up.

I can't wait to see this board completely implode. I think it's the right move to trade Hader when his value is highest. I also don't believe they will ever get the value some on here are wanting.

[brewerhuman]

I know several people would not like a trade with the Yankees to get done, but what would Stearns' asking price being met look like? Can we make any reasonable guesses? To be clear, I'm not asking for the most likely deal or one that fits holes only. Put on your David Stearns mask and tell me what you being blown away (and having your high asking price met) by the Yankees can look like.

[baumer16]

Andujar, Garcia and a lottery ticket type prospect

[anglotiger]

Start with Torres, hope that they don't hang up. Move on to Dominguez +, hope that they don't hang up. Settle on Andujar, Garcia and Gil, and hope that Andujar doesn't kill you in the field.

[PeaveyFury]

Start with Torres, hope that they don't hang up. Move on to Dominguez +, hope that they don't hang up. Settle on Andujar, Garcia and Gil, and hope that Andujar doesn't kill you in the field.

 

Why are we setting on anything? And why are the Brewers the ones hoping the other side doesn’t hang up?

[brewerhuman]

I feel as if Andujar is going to be tough to leave out of any deal. One question as we continue this exercise because I'm not too smart when it comes to baseball. How does Andujar being brutal in the field affect the team compared to Arcia being brutal at the plate? I know that's not who he'd be replacing. I guess my question is where do you think the Brewers see better value? Good/great defense and terrible offense or (potentially) good/great offense and poor defense? Are we mayyybe underrating Andujar's potential a bit because his concern is already throughout the team?

[82brewcrew82]

I feel as if Andujar is going to be tough to leave out of any deal. One question as we continue this exercise because I'm not too smart when it comes to baseball. How does Andujar being brutal in the field affect the team compared to Arcia being brutal at the plate? I know that's not who he'd be replacing. I guess my question is where do you think the Brewers see better value? Good/great defense and terrible offense or (potentially) good/great offense and poor defense? Are we mayyybe underrating Andujar's potential a bit because his concern is already throughout the team?

Actually, that might be who he is replacing, no? Right now Urias would be at third and Arcia at short so that question seems valid to me. Given that, I'd probably go with the offensive upside over the defensive upside.

[nate82]

If the rumors of Stearns wanting top notch prospects in return for Hader are true I think the starting point is Dominguez from the Yankees plus Medina and a lower level prospect like Kevin Alcantara. I think this board would be holding pitch forks if this is the return Stearns gets for Hader. I think most on this board want major league ready or players in the majors already for Hader and I just don't see Stearns making a deal like that.

 

I am going to repeat this but I truly believe Stearns is looking for prospects being the headliners in any deal that involves Hader.

[KCBrewerfan34]

The Yankee farm system seems way overhyped and it sounds like Garcia is headed to the pen and Dominguez is 16.

 

 

Torres

 

For

 

Hader and Arcia

 

Hang up the phone if Cashman is his usual self.

[baumer16]

If the rumors of Stearns wanting top notch prospects in return for Hader are true I think the starting point is Dominguez from the Yankees plus Medina and a lower level prospect like Kevin Alcantara. I think this board would be holding pitch forks if this is the return Stearns gets for Hader. I think most on this board want major league ready or players in the majors already for Hader and I just don't see Stearns making a deal like that.

 

I am going to repeat this but I truly believe Stearns is looking for prospects being the headliners in any deal that involves Hader.

 

There is no reason to trade Hader just for prospects. If that is the plan they might as well trade Yelich and do a full rebuild. Andujar will be the centerpiece cause he’s young and could be an impact bat in MLB now