Hader trade ideas

[mattyo]

Yanks don't have the guys to make DS make this move.

 

Except the Yankees have had more discussions with the Brewers for Hader than any other team. So Stearns must like the Yankees as a possible trade partner for Hader.

 

Just because we have only heard tweets from national reporters saying the Yankees are interested in Hader doesn't mean the Brewers are interested in working out a trade with them, nor does it mean the Brewers haven't discussed Hader with multiple other teams.

[KeithStone53151]

For starters, the Yankees definitely have the pieces to swing a trade. Could certainly see a hader+arcia for torres+. They have prospects they can add to andujar to entice Stearns as well. I suppose they could also send back a guy like green, though I'm not sure that makes sense.

 

I really don't want to trade with the Yankees though. Best case scenario, we make an equal value trade. No chance of swindling him like dipoto or dombrowski or other bad gms. And I don't think I want to trade hader unless I'm getting a big overpay.

 

I think there's been too much smoke on this for it to be a fabrication. I would bet these guys have talked extensively on a number of different hader trades. Will be very curious if it happens but I'm definitely rooting against it

[reillymcshane]

Miguel Andujar had a nice 2018 at the plate, but here is why people do not want him as a centerpiece of a Hader Trade:

 

In 2018, Andujar:

 

- Ranked as the worst defensive 3rd baseman in baseball. And it wasn't close - getting twice as bad ratings as the next guy.

- Ranked the 7th worst defensive player in ALL of baseball according to Fangraphs.

- Had the 2nd worst Defensive Runs Saved rating of ANY player in baseball according to Fangraphs.

- Ranked the 4th worst defensive player in all of baseball when looking Defensive Runs Saved. Again, that's all of baseball - not just 3B.

 

Bottom line is that he's an awful defender. Perhaps he'll be okay at 1B, but we can't count on that.

 

In the end, his defensive limitations mean he'll struggle to be anything more than just good. Most of us want a really, really good player for Hader. Or a prospect(s) who have all-star potential. Andujar just doesn't seem like that guy. He's good, but that's it. We need more than that for Hader.

[MNBrew]

Yanks don't have the guys to make DS make this move.

 

Except the Yankees have had more discussions with the Brewers for Hader than any other team. So Stearns must like the Yankees as a possible trade partner for Hader.

No, if it's true, it only means the Yankees have called David Stearns the most -- and that's all.

 

I think this whole Hader trade thing is incredibly overblown. How did it start? Ken Rosenthal tweeted that the Brewers are willing to listen on Hader. Based on what's been stated by Stearns this year in response to that AND what's been reported routinely in the past, as GMs have enough conversations, Stearns hears the names of pretty much everyone on the roster come up. In other words, what Rosenthal reported is NOTHING NEW -- even pretty normal Stearns procedure.

 

BUT everyone picked up on it because of who put it out there. And I've heard it twisted into plenty more than the original Rosenthal nugget, over and over and over. Of course a potential Hader trade makes for a huge story, but geez...

 

What this doesn't mean is that Stearns is close to trading Hader, as far as we know. What it means is that word's out that teams are calling. They're probably calling on Yelich, too, and Woodruff and Hiura and on and on and on. . . .

 

.... All of this because of one Ken Rosenthal tweet. In everyone's thirst for a good potential trade scoop (my brain loves that, too -- it sure is fun!), it seems that simple connecting the basic dotes about this whole "Hader trade possibility" (and perhaps some degree of critical thinking about it) inadvertently got lost along the way because of the big-ness of the idea.

[brewerhuman]

I apologize if this is stupid, but (assuming trade talks are legitimate, which is a big maybe, but...) what if whatever prospects Stearns would ask for is for another team and not a return for Hader? Is it out of the realm of possibility that he’d need a third team involved to create a good enough package for, say, Arenado? I don’t think Stearns can pull off much with the status of the farm in a straight up trade, so could he do something like deal Hader to the Yankees in exchange for the additional farm power to get a player of Arenado’s caliber?

[wntrtxn21]

For starters, the Yankees definitely have the pieces to swing a trade. Could certainly see a hader+arcia for torres+. They have prospects they can add to andujar to entice Stearns as well. I suppose they could also send back a guy like green, though I'm not sure that makes sense.

 

I really don't want to trade with the Yankees though. Best case scenario, we make an equal value trade. No chance of swindling him like dipoto or dombrowski or other bad gms. And I don't think I want to trade hader unless I'm getting a big overpay.

 

I think there's been too much smoke on this for it to be a fabrication. I would bet these guys have talked extensively on a number of different hader trades. Will be very curious if it happens but I'm definitely rooting against it

 

You can't really believe the Yankees would part with Torres and a prospect for Hader and Arcia. They would laugh themselves silly if the Brewers offered that. Torres is going to play SS the way it looks and he is just about the last Yankee they would trade.

[wntrtxn21]

Yanks don't have the guys to make DS make this move.

 

While I agree that the Yankees don't have a lot that interests me in a Hader deal (that they'd likely give up anyways), they do have some pieces that may interest a third team.

 

Yankees get: Hader

Yankees get their man while shedding a couple million in payroll

 

Mariners get: Andujar & Happ

Mariners save $18M in 2021 and add another talented young piece to add to their other talented young pieces. Maybe Happ can mentor Sheffield and Kikuchi.

 

Brewers get: Seager, Gonzales, Garcia, Montgomery & Cash ($5-10M from the Yankees)

Brewers get their 3B, an upgrade to the rotation, another LHP for the pen, a top 100 prospect, and add between $10-15M in payroll.

 

The Brewers would absolutely love the trade, but the M's wouldn't want any part of it. They give up their best pitcher and Seager for a DH/1B, a broken down pitcher, and money. They would be much better off dealing Seager to save money and keeping Gonzales.

[Eye Black]

Bringing this over from the 3B candidates thread. Assuming the Twins would offer one of these packages for Josh Hader (admittedly a big assumption), do you find either of the below packages enticing? For the purposes of this exercise lets assume the Brewers believe Arraez could be their primary 3B as well as fill-in in at other positions as needed.

 

Luis Arraez and Alex Kirilloff

 

OR

 

Luis Arraez, and TWO of the following: Brusdar Graterol, Jordan Balazovic, Trevor Larnach

[JosephC]

Bringing this over from the 3B candidates thread. Assuming the Twins would offer one of these packages for Josh Hader (admittedly a big assumption), do you find either of the below packages enticing? For the purposes of this exercise lets assume the Brewers believe Arraez could be their primary 3B as well as fill-in in at other positions as needed.

 

Luis Arraez and Alex Kirilloff

 

OR

 

Luis Arraez, and TWO of the following: Brusdar Graterol, Jordan Balazovic, Trevor Larnach

 

If Graterol's shoulder checks out as good, I would do a Hader for Arraez + Graterol + Balazovic trade.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Mets: McNeil, Smith, Familia, Matz and cash.

Twins: Kirilloff, Balazovic and Arraez

Dodgers: Lux and Gonsolin

[KeithStone53151]

For starters, the Yankees definitely have the pieces to swing a trade. Could certainly see a hader+arcia for torres+. They have prospects they can add to andujar to entice Stearns as well. I suppose they could also send back a guy like green, though I'm not sure that makes sense.

 

I really don't want to trade with the Yankees though. Best case scenario, we make an equal value trade. No chance of swindling him like dipoto or dombrowski or other bad gms. And I don't think I want to trade hader unless I'm getting a big overpay.

 

I think there's been too much smoke on this for it to be a fabrication. I would bet these guys have talked extensively on a number of different hader trades. Will be very curious if it happens but I'm definitely rooting against it

 

You can't really believe the Yankees would part with Torres and a prospect for Hader and Arcia. They would laugh themselves silly if the Brewers offered that. Torres is going to play SS the way it looks and he is just about the last Yankee they would trade.

 

It's more feasible than you are implying, but I agree I doubt that trade would happen. I think they'd be more inclined to push other players like Andujar primarily. Primary point there is the Yankees definitely have value players that we could target for Hader, and a deal is doable.

[Weirdos19]

I would take Lux straight up for Hader. Or Stripling, Turner, and cash.

 

If the Yanks offered Happ, Andujar, and Voit for Hader and Braun, I’d do that in a second too.

 

But I think the Mets are the best fit. Dominic Smith and Matz would work. Or even Syndergaard and Familia.

 

Houston for Correa.

 

I’m just very afraid that his collapse in that Wild Card game is going to affect him.

[KeithStone53151]

I would take Lux straight up for Hader. Or Stripling, Turner, and cash.

 

If the Yanks offered Happ, Andujar, and Voit for Hader and Braun, I’d do that in a second too.

 

But I think the Mets are the best fit. Dominic Smith and Matz would work. Or even Syndergaard and Familia.

 

Houston for Correa.

 

I’m just very afraid that his collapse in that Wild Card game is going to affect him.

 

Welcome to the board. I think your proposals might be a touch light, at least some of them. For starters, Braun has said he'd only accept a trade to the Dodgers. Lux would be fine, Stripling/Turner/cash would not work for me...regardless of how much cash. Syndergaard and Familia is a lot close than Smith/Matz...especially now that we've added a LH 1b.

[mattyo]

I would take Lux straight up for Hader. Or Stripling, Turner, and cash.

 

If the Yanks offered Happ, Andujar, and Voit for Hader and Braun, I’d do that in a second too.

 

But I think the Mets are the best fit. Dominic Smith and Matz would work. Or even Syndergaard and Familia.

 

Houston for Correa.

 

I’m just very afraid that his collapse in that Wild Card game is going to affect him.

 

 

I'm having a very tough time figuring your valuation of Hader. You proposed a trade for Smith and Matz (way undervalued), then Syndergaard and Familiar and Correa (overvalued).

 

If we traded Hader for Smith and Matz I would chain myself to Miller Park in protest of the worst brewers trade in the franchise's history

[Austin Tatious]

If all it took for the Yankees to get Hader was a package led by Andujar and lesser pieces, that trade would have been done in an instant. Cashman would be laughing trying to finalize it before anyone in Milwaukee came to his senses. The Yankees would get a dominant weapon who can help you in 50 games for flawed pieces they don't need.

 

Hader isn't "just" a reliever. He's one of the biggest weapons in the sport. You can trot him out in the 6th inning of a tight game and mow down the heart of your order. That's a piece that's extremely valuable. The way he is deployed isn't captured in stats. It looks like a run of the mill "hold" on paper but it's really the critical piece.

 

He's got four years of control. His value is sky high right now. The Yankees got Torres for a couple of months of Chapman. We get a haul or we keep him.

[Zad Fnark]

If anyone wants Hader, we should own their soul.

[brewerfan82]

Fair enough point on Andujar's defense. That said, I think people are seeing his name and getting stuck on the possibility of him being *the centerpiece* of a deal. But I don't think that's really been insinuated by any rumors, he's just been speculated as an obvious fit as part of a package. Are people really going to complain for instance if it's a Garcia/Andujar package coming back?

[mattyo]

Fair enough point on Andujar's defense. That said, I think people are seeing his name and getting stuck on the possibility of him being *the centerpiece* of a deal. But I don't think that's really been insinuated by any rumors, he's just been speculated as an obvious fit as part of a package. Are people really going to complain for instance if it's a Garcia/Andujar package coming back?

 

 

Yes, I think thats been made clear over the past 10 or so pages of the same trade being proposed, and they should complain.

[adambr2]

If we are using Torres for Chapman as the starting point for Hader, he will never be traded. That was a unique deal with no precedent and will probably never be repeated.

[brewerfan82]

Ha, alright, well I hope they can get the return everyone seems to think they deserve, but I think it's quite possible people are going to be very underwhelmed by whatever they end up getting for him even if it makes the organization stronger.

 

Time to put on my lucky hat and hope he doesn't fall apart/get injured the first half of the season!

[brewcrewdue80]

Any deal with a top 10 Baseball market should look like robbery on the Brewers end. As another or few have posted, these teams can part with say Torres and spend big on a FA. How about the Yankees rumors of Andujar because now 3b opens up and the money NY saves on Hader going forward allows them to swoop in and sign Donaldson.

 

We're parting with an 16mil Lockdown RP that for 4years likely makes only half that, with the caveat that injury or regression lowers his salary moving forward. This is compared to the Yankees signing their HOF RP Riviera 15mil per guaranteed and relying on health and effectiveness to earn that 60mil deal(13-17)

 

Dellin Betances wants 10mil for a 1yr likely prove it deal after injury in Sept to ask for more and longer next year. Under 5mil this year for Best in baseball, or pay 10mil on a guy coming off an injury.

For these top markets at or above luxury tax, what looks to us as under 5mil is 6mil to them. 10mil for Betances could turn out being 14.5 to them.

 

The trade simulators you use do not take that in to effect. Hader needs to be a value around 64mil vs what did I see 43? In here? To those markets the Brewers trade with. Because a comparable value RP in FA for them to pay for costs them more after being taxed.

Having Andujar lead off a trade proposal from the Yankees while having equal team control? Being Damaged goods. That is trying to get 60mil value for Andujar and 20 for Hader. Flipping the way the offer should be heading.

[nate82]

In one of Heyman's articles he states that the Brewers are looking for a top prospect(s) in return for Hader. So I am assuming that means they are looking at a prospect laden deal versus a deal that will be major league ready or major league players heavy.

 

So I am thinking the Brewers are looking for a return where they are getting a prospect in the 5-15 range and another in the 50-75 range plus lower level players. I don't believe the Brewers are looking at players who have already eaten some or most of their pre-arbitration years in a return for Hader.

 

I believe most on here will erupt and will be calling for Stearns head if what has been rumored is true. I don't think the Brewers are going to get what Stearns is looking for and Hader will be on the team until at least next year the latest and the earliest he may be traded would be by the trade deadline during this upcoming season. Maybe a team gets desperate and needs a bullpen arm and gives Stearns what he is looking for during the trade deadline but I think most are going to be disappointed with the return as it will be more prospects than it will be MLB ready players.

[wntrtxn21]

I would take Lux straight up for Hader. Or Stripling, Turner, and cash.

 

If the Yanks offered Happ, Andujar, and Voit for Hader and Braun, I’d do that in a second too.

 

But I think the Mets are the best fit. Dominic Smith and Matz would work. Or even Syndergaard and Familia.

 

Houston for Correa.

 

I’m just very afraid that his collapse in that Wild Card game is going to affect him.

 

I wouldn't make the Yankee trade because Andujar is so bad at third he has become a DH/1B. Happ would be zero help and probably DFA'd. The Brewers would be trading Braun and Hader, not saving any money, and getting a 1B, a run-down pitcher, and a pinch hitter in return.

I don't like the Correa deal because he's gone in two years and the Crew gets no pitching in return.

I definitely do it for Smith and Syndergaard. I don't think Matz plays out to well in Milwaukee and Familia is owed too much money for his fleeting talent.

[wibadgers23]

Bringing this over from the 3B candidates thread. Assuming the Twins would offer one of these packages for Josh Hader (admittedly a big assumption), do you find either of the below packages enticing? For the purposes of this exercise lets assume the Brewers believe Arraez could be their primary 3B as well as fill-in in at other positions as needed.

 

Luis Arraez and Alex Kirilloff

 

OR

 

Luis Arraez, and TWO of the following: Brusdar Graterol, Jordan Balazovic, Trevor Larnach

 

Have the Twins been one of the teams linked to Hader? Anyway, I would be very happy with a Arraez and Kirilloff trade. Arraez doesn’t hit for much power but is an absolute on base machine. This guy has walked more than he’s struck out at every level he’s been including the majors. And Kirilloff is top 20 prospect who is close to the majors himself. If the Twins get Donaldson I would hope Stearns gets on the phone with Minnesota if he hasn’t talked with them already.

[BrewForLife]

In one of Heyman's articles he states that the Brewers are looking for a top prospect(s) in return for Hader. So I am assuming that means they are looking at a prospect laden deal versus a deal that will be major league ready or major league players heavy.

 

Hader to NYM

 

prospects KSmith, Baty, FAlvarez and Arcia and Lowrie to PIT (PIT new GM buying low, taking on payroll, and absorbing young controllable talent).

 

and to MKE:

 

Ke'Bryan Hayes (Hayes continues to improve as a hitter. He's always had a solid approach at the plate, but it's become even more refined, with a walk rate that went up for a third straight season in 2018. So did his ability to drive the ball. While he still largely uses a contact-first approach, Hayes set career highs in extra-base hits and slugging percentage, and there's more over-the-fence power to come as he matures and continues to add strength. That might slow him down a touch, but he's still smart enough on the basepaths to steal bases. There might not be a better defensive third baseman in the Minors, with his agility, hands, arm and instincts all pointing to future Gold Glove awards.

 

Hayes will be 22 years old for all of the 2019 season, with plenty of room for growth from an already-impressive toolset. He has every chance to be an elite-level third baseman at the big league level.)

 

Peterson (former #1 pick and LH starter from NYM---Peterson's fastball is average in terms of velocity, as he'll sit at 89-91 mph and touch 93, but few starters in the Minors can sink and command it as well as he does. Logging 127 1/3 innings in his first full season, Peterson yielded only two home runs (0.14 HR/9) and posted the third-best ground-ball rate (64.5%) in the Minors among qualified pitchers. He combines his heater with an above-average slider that nets him whiffs as an out pitch, while his changeup, which flashes above-average, gives him a weapon against right-handed hitters. He fills out his four-pitch mix with a fringy curveball that he can throw for a strike.

 

Despite a lower arm slot from his 6-foot-6 frame, Peterson has demonstrated outstanding control of all his pitches, even if he can stand to refine his overall command some. Average bat-missing ability and a knack for inducing weak, ground-ball contact points to more of a floor than a ceiling for Peterson, but it might not take him that long to reach his potential as a No. 3 or 4 starter.)

 

Ashcraft (At 6-foot-5 and closing in on 200 pounds, Ashcraft is the prototypical athletic and projectable high school right-hander. He's been up to 94 mph consistently already, and with his frame, he's likely to add strength and velocity as he matures and he throws his fastball with excellent extension, angle and sink. His slider was up to 82-85 mph in the GCL and could give him a second plus pitch in time. The changeup is behind the other two pitches, but he has a feel for it and there's confidence it will catch up and be at least an average offering.)

 

"Not enough for this guy, No way ____ will go for that... blah blah blah" Don't think it directly works? Then fill in the gaps, but the essence is...

 

We don't want to pay 5mil+ for a RP with a sub 3WAR for years to come because it will not be good value.

KBHayes' father played in MKE and this kid has the glove NOW...let him grow into a solid 3B and take the lumps but hope that his #36 MLB prospects ranking holds true. Peterson has attributes and is a lefty as we covet the hell out of them recently.

 

Edit: citation noted--http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019