Hader trade ideas

[Brewersfanatic2882]

Refering to the Yankees trade idea:

 

You do this trade in a heart beat. Hader is amazing! But you dont build around a relief pitcher. If a team comes to you and offers you 3 guys who have all star potential, you take it. We just need 1 of those guys to pan out for it to be a good trade. A 3b/1b, of, and a sp all have more value than a rp in my oppinion. 2 of the 3 have shown they can hit in the bigs and would help us now.

[Brewcrewin07]

I mean, prospects would be nice and all, but don't you HAVE to get all major league ready pieces for Hader if you trade him?? I mean, he's a major part of them being contenders, you can't have a "drop off" from that if you trade him. I will get ridiculed for this, but again, for me to trade him, I NEED a TOR arm back, as the centerpiece. Not one that could be in a year or two, one that already is established as one. I mean DS doesn't HAVE to trade him. there is NO reason he can't/shouldn't ask for the moon, and if he gets anything less than that, simply don't trade him. If someone wants him bad enough, then they pony up, if they aren't willing to pony up, eactly what DS asks for, then you simply don't trade him. Either way you can't lose.

[brewmann04]

I agree no reason to trade him unless it a massive overpay and that has to include a top starter.

[sveumrules]

I mean, prospects would be nice and all, but don't you HAVE to get all major league ready pieces for Hader if you trade him?? I mean, he's a major part of them being contenders, you can't have a "drop off" from that if you trade him. I will get ridiculed for this, but again, for me to trade him, I NEED a TOR arm back, as the centerpiece. Not one that could be in a year or two, one that already is established as one. I mean DS doesn't HAVE to trade him. there is NO reason he can't/shouldn't ask for the moon, and if he gets anything less than that, simply don't trade him. If someone wants him bad enough, then they pony up, if they aren't willing to pony up, eactly what DS asks for, then you simply don't trade him. Either way you can't lose.

 

Any team dealing for Hader will be a contender, so if they are dealing MLB ready guys they will likely be doing so from a position of depth.

 

No organization has tradable depth in the area of proven TOR arms.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I mean, prospects would be nice and all, but don't you HAVE to get all major league ready pieces for Hader if you trade him?? I mean, he's a major part of them being contenders, you can't have a "drop off" from that if you trade him. I will get ridiculed for this, but again, for me to trade him, I NEED a TOR arm back, as the centerpiece. Not one that could be in a year or two, one that already is established as one. I mean DS doesn't HAVE to trade him. there is NO reason he can't/shouldn't ask for the moon, and if he gets anything less than that, simply don't trade him. If someone wants him bad enough, then they pony up, if they aren't willing to pony up, eactly what DS asks for, then you simply don't trade him. Either way you can't lose.

 

The Brewers can absolutely lose if the hold out for more than the current market dictates this offseason and his value decreases going forward. Thankfully it sounds like there is no shortage of interest so the Brewers should get the value they're due.

[MrTPlush]

I think you definitely want a MLB piece back that you are confident will plug in somewhere (and produce), but the entire thing doesn’t need to be and not even the main piece.

 

Remember that Lucroy trade? Zero of the those players made an impact here and all were traded off for help in postseason runs. Cordell got Swarzak, Ortiz got Schoop (gag), and Brinson got Yelich.

 

I mean we could trade for prospects and flip them tomorrow. I think people are way to focused on centering a trade entirely (or almost) made up of MLB player (or MLB ready).

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I agree no reason to trade him unless it a massive overpay and that has to include a top starter.

 

If there's no "massive overpay" now the likelihood of it happening later doesn't exactly increase.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Unless we are acknowledging that we are rebuilding instead of contending trading Hader doesn’t make much sense.

 

He’s too valuable of a weapon for a contending team.

[brewmann04]

If DS trades Hader he better be sure what he getting or whom he targeting with those Acquired prospects.

[brewerfan82]

I keep seeing "best reliever in the game" as a reason we can't trade Hader unless we get an extreme overpay... Based on fa contracts the best reliever in the game is worth less than a really good but not great starting pitcher and much much less valuable than a really good bat. I think a lot of us overvalue him.

Completely agree. He's a great asset, but out of the ~12,500 PAs a team has each year (offensively plus defensively) he only impacts ~300 PAs per year. That's compared to ~750-850 PAs for starting pitchers and ~600-700 PAs for position players. Heck Ben Gamel got 356 PAs last year off the bench. Obviously the amount of playing time isn't the sole factor in determining a players' value, but it certainly does limit it and the requirements of a TOR arm, or an organizations' best prospect, etc., are very lofty for a guy that is going to get as much playing time as a 4th outfielder. It's like having the best kicker in the NFL and demanding a star RB for him, lol, and I'm not even sure I'm exaggerating with that comparison.

 

Now with that said, with four years of control, you have every right to ask for the moon and just hold onto him longer when you don't get it. But if he continues to pitch like the best reliever in baseball, he's about to get expensive very fast through the arbitration process and with each year that his contract goes up and his years of control go down, his value is going to go down as well. Additionally, if he doesn't continue pitching like the best reliever in baseball or he gets hurt, his value is going to plummet. So I would be very careful of passing up fair offers for him that will help make this team significantly better overall just because you want to really pull one over on a team.

 

Again, he's a great player and he should demand a very good return, but I feel like some of the demands being thrown around would seem pretty silly if you heard a fan from another team saying the same thing about one of their players.

[adambr2]

As Sveum pointed out there just is no proven top end starter coming back for Hader, it just does not work that way. Best you could hope for is to get a guy with the upside to become one but who isn't there yet, like the Rays did with Glasnow when they traded Archer.

[Brewcrewin07]

Others have mentioned it in this thread I believe, but if I'm dealing with the Mets, I INSIST on Syndergaard, or no deal. Period.

[Oxy]

The problem with NOT trading him is that he is a super 2 this year and he profiles as a guy who has a higher likelihood to bust from here on out than most other players who have had similar levels of success. If he does bust this year, now you are paying a reliever ~$6M with 3 more arby years where he can't take a pay cut. Even if he does great, the roster right now is not a WS roster, and an elite reliever is more valuable to good to great teams than teams with gigantic holes in their position player and starting pitcher groups.

 

Trade him now while is value is still high and plug multiple holes for the next 5-7 years for cheap (or try to).

[Brewcrewin07]

At minimum if I'm not getting a TOR starter back, I damn well better be getting an All star bat back. Hader was an all star, you should expect to give one up.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

At minimum if I'm not getting a TOR starter back, I damn well better be getting an All star bat back. Hader was an all star, you should expect to give one up.

 

Jeff McNeil was an All-Star last year. He's been mentioned in this thread as a potential target. He'd be a solid fit at 3B I think. 27 years old, and broke out in a huge way last year power wise. The high-contact bat has always been there. He's be a nice part of a package.

[Brewcrewin07]

The problem with NOT trading him is that he is a super 2 this year and he profiles as a guy who has a higher likelihood to bust from here on out than most other players who have had similar levels of success. If he does bust this year, now you are paying a reliever ~$6M with 3 more arby years where he can't take a pay cut. Even if he does great, the roster right now is not a WS roster, and an elite reliever is more valuable to good to great teams than teams with gigantic holes in their position player and starting pitcher groups.

 

Trade him now while is value is still high and plug multiple holes for the next 5-7 years for cheap (or try to).

 

I mean, Stearns told us after the arb deadline, and they non tendered everyone that they "plan on being competitive" this next year, right?? So to me, you can't on Decemeber 12th, change that statement, and be able to sell it. If you say it, you better mean it. Walking it back would be incredibly challenging. Now yes, it's December 12th, but can ANY of us right now at this moment, say the Brewers look like they intend to contend?? Yes, there's time left, but in regards to trading Hader, if you trade him, and don't get back major league ready pieces, that will impact the MLB team now(again, remember he stated they plan to be competitive), then didn't DS lie to everyone about being competitive this year?? If you trade a KEY component of your MLB team, you have to replace it with at least one Major league piece, equal or better then what you gave up, or the whole statement about contending, is hog wash, right??

[umphrey]

Why would someone trade a TOR starter for Hader? Most TOR type pitchers would be RP aces if played there.

[Brewcrewin07]

At minimum if I'm not getting a TOR starter back, I damn well better be getting an All star bat back. Hader was an all star, you should expect to give one up.

 

Jeff McNeil was an All-Star last year. He's been mentioned in this thread as a potential target. He'd be a solid fit at 3B I think. 27 years old, and broke out in a huge way last year power wise. The high-contact bat has always been there. He's be a nice part of a package.

 

Admittedly, he makes me nervous, for MY liking, he hasn't done it long enough yet to be considered "proven" to me anyway. Maybe he'd end up being very good, but that would be too risky for my liking. Again, for me, if it's the Mets, it starts with Syndergaard, if the answer is no right away, I hang up the phone, and don't engage with them anymore. Personal preference.

[Oxy]

I want multiple high upside prospects--Urias types would be ideal. If you get an established player for Hader that's all you are going to get for him unless that guy is already making market value for his services...or perhaps he's even slightly overpaid, then the Brewers could get an even better prospect haul.

 

That's probably the ideal scenario as it would keep the pitchfork fans at bay while also significantly improving the roster situation for years to come.

The Yankees aren't the best targets for this strategy though, as they are mostly immune from "salary relief," so it's not like they'd see it as a benefit to them to clear a contract.

[adambr2]

At minimum if I'm not getting a TOR starter back, I damn well better be getting an All star bat back. Hader was an all star, you should expect to give one up.

 

Jeff McNeil was an All-Star last year. He's been mentioned in this thread as a potential target. He'd be a solid fit at 3B I think. 27 years old, and broke out in a huge way last year power wise. The high-contact bat has always been there. He's be a nice part of a package.

 

Admittedly, he makes me nervous, for MY liking, he hasn't done it long enough yet to be considered "proven" to me anyway. Maybe he'd end up being very good, but that would be too risky for my liking. Again, for me, if it's the Mets, it starts with Syndergaard, if the answer is no right away, I hang up the phone, and don't engage with them anymore. Personal preference.

 

"Damn, he hung up. I was going to offer DeGrom and McNeil next."

[Oldcity]

 

This is a great way to not trade Hader anywhere.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Here’s the thing WAR isn’t the end all be all when it comes to assessing a player’s value especially a RP. Look at what the trade market has dictated most recently with elite relievers and tell me again we’re overvaluing Hader which is just a laughable statement, and this is coming from someone that thinks dealing him is a good idea. Some examples of the trade market for said elite relievers. Feel free to add any recent comparable ones I might have missed

 

31 year old Andrew Miller with 1.5 years of control netted Clint Frazier and Justus Sheffield two then top ranked, highly lauded prospects and two other nice fliers at the time.

 

A half year of Chapman for Gleyber freaking Torres

 

Edwin Diaz plus an albatross contract in Cano went for Jared Kelenic and Justin Dunn which is again two top 100 guys. Kelenic will be sniffing the top end of that list soon enough just an absolute stud.

 

So forgive me for saying you guys are absolutely nuts to accept a package of anything less than the moon for a guy that is; 25 years old, has won NL reliever of the year twice in a row, cost controlled for 4 years, perfect for the modern game, strikeouts guys at a rate unmatched by few in the history of baseball. Miguel Andujar and Clint Frazier... (basically red headed Brinson) *Inserts getting sick emoji. May match up in WAR but again that’s a terrible stat to assess the value of a RP. With that package Cashman kind kindly you know what himself. Jasson Dominguez would have to be part of the deal if that’s the frame of it and idk if that does enough for Stearns. He’s not dumb he understands value. If he’s not getting a king’s ransom now NY can always call back in July.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Miguel Andujar and Clint Frazier... (basically red headed Brinson) *Inserts getting sick emoji. May match up in WAR but again that’s a terrible stat to assess the value of a RP.

 

If someone said they either expect that return or that they'd be ok with it, please quote it so I can laugh at it along with you.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I agree with MilwaukeeBeers.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Miguel Andujar and Clint Frazier... (basically red headed Brinson) *Inserts getting sick emoji. May match up in WAR but again that’s a terrible stat to assess the value of a RP.

 

If someone said they either expect that return or that they'd be ok with it, please quote it so I can laugh at it along with you.

Mainly some shots at what I saw on “Yankees” twitter. Feel free to peruse that cesspool lol. I do find any idea of the Brewers “overvaluing” him laughable though. It’s just playing devil’s advocate as evidenced by previous deals involving elite relievers.