Cubs hire David Ross as new manager

[patrickgpe]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/10/latest-on-david-ross-cubs.html

 

This may work out greatly for them, but I see this being a big risk. He has no managerial experience and played with a bunch of them and is good friends with alot of the key players.

 

CC had no experience either, but was gone long enough where most of the team wasn't around when he took over for RR.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Confirmed by Jon Heyman:

 

So they go from an extreme managing and coaching veteran in Maddon to a rookie manager in Ross. Going to be interesting to watch. Ross actually followed a very similar path to a managing job as Counsell.

[JimH5]

I think it's a good hire. His teammates referred to him as Gramps, etc., so there was enough of an age and experience gap that it's not like bringing back a peer as teammate.

[bill hAll Star]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

He allegedly was the hard ass in the room on the 2015 and 16 teams and balanced Maddon’s care free culture. I think he commands more respect and responsibility out of guys than it comes off on the surface of being buddies with these dudes. I think he’ll also likely be an extension of the FO and just manage by the numbers/what they tell him. He’ll probably be fine.

[wildcat83]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

 

 

With the revenue they have they should be able to avoid dumpster fire level of bad. They can just go buy more pieces.

 

I think Ross will do fine, seemed to have a ton of respect when he was in his last few years playing. I think that would carry over, he'll get the most out of what he has.

[Eye Black]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, there is other big news in Cubs land regarding whether Kris Bryant becomes a free agent following next season or 2021, Kris Bryant's Service Time Grievance (via Bleacher Nation).

[bill hAll Star]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

 

 

With the revenue they have they should be able to avoid dumpster fire level of bad. They can just go buy more pieces.

 

I think Ross will do fine, seemed to have a ton of respect when he was in his last few years playing. I think that would carry over, he'll get the most out of what he has.

 

I don't think they'll want to do this, though. Theo might jump ship if this season doesn't go well and the new guy will probably trade Darvish and/or Hendricks and tank/build for a year or three as they did in the early 2010s.

 

It's possible that they also use their somewhat clean books to try to bully their way back into contention but that may be a disaster in its own way.

[jerichoholicninja]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, there is other big news in Cubs land regarding whether Kris Bryant becomes a free agent following next season or 2021, Kris Bryant's Service Time Grievance (via Bleacher Nation).

 

There's no way Bryant wins. We all know why they delayed his call up but too bad for Kris. The Cubs played by the agreed upon rules. There are certainly going to be changes in the next CBA but you can't be making exceptions for players now because they're not happy about it. Now if there was some evidence that the Cubs offered him an extension and said he would make the opening day roster only if he signed then you may have something.

 

As for Ross, I'm sure he'll be fine.

[KeithStone53151]

Regarding bryant, i actually think it's written in the CBA that you can't hold a guy back specifically to manipulate service time. The problem comes in proving it. Im sure the cubs have half a dozen contributing factors that they will list as reasons, will be tough for bryant to prove otherwise.

 

Regarding dave ross, the cubs are approaching the end of their window with the current core. I can understand flinging a hail mary and hoping his presence can bring back the feeling from their WS season. Barring some epic level of success, ross has 1-2 years with the cubs and he'll get punted during the rebuild

[wntrtxn21]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

 

Unlike some clubs (Pirates, Reds, Brewers, Royals, etc...) the Cubs have the money to buy just about any FA they want. Plus they have the cash to re-sign their own players if they so choose and to take on huge contracts for players rebuilding teams are trying to get off the books. I don't see them being in the dumpster fire catagory.

[bill hAll Star]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

 

Unlike some clubs (Pirates, Reds, Brewers, Royals, etc...) the Cubs have the money to buy just about any FA they want. Plus they have the cash to re-sign their own players if they so choose and to take on huge contracts for players rebuilding teams are trying to get off the books. I don't see them being in the dumpster fire catagory.

 

Once again, as I noted above, please see: Cubs, 2010-2014.

 

They definitely could re-sign Baez and maybe Bryant/Rizzo as they see fit and then buy a pitcher or two, but their entire core of useful players is aging or gone in 2 years. Might be time to rebuild again as they did in 2010 when they traded away Soriano (a bit too late), Garza, let Aramis walk, etc.

 

Their roster after 2021 is:

Jason Heyward (32 years old, 2 years left)

Yu Darvish (35 years old, 2 years left)

Kyle Hendricks (32 years old, 2 years left)

Willson Contreras (30 years old, 1 year left)

David Bote (who cares)

 

That already takes up roughly $60 million of payroll.

 

Now, most teams have a pretty empty roster starting in 2021...except the Cubs have no farm system and their team is already aging.

 

They're actually already at a crossroads. Either they have to trust that putting a guy that made a good pretend Spring Training pep talk to a team that is sinking/aging is going to get them back to 95+ wins or are they going to do something drastic?

 

Because it's going to come completely crashing down in 2 years if they stick with the same core and can't improve with less payroll open this year than you'd think (they already have something like $160 million committed) and no pitching depth.

[MadScientist]

I was hoping they would hire Kapler. Hopefully Ross will work out just as well.

 

As for Bryant, he was called up 12 days into the season. He wasn't down long enough to do anything except reduce his service time by just enough. Still, he will lose the case, because the Cubs can point to some injuries at the time that necessitated his being called up, 'earlier than they had intended'.

[Madhawk23]

Yeah, this feels like a Theo "yes man" that he is bringing in to have more control over, and to manage by the numbers. With that said - that's certainly the trend in baseball these days, and while I'm not sure if I'd call CC a "yes man" for Stearns - there is definitely a good relationship there between those two and it's very clear that they work side by side on many managerial decisions for the Crew.

 

It will be interesting though to see how Ross handles going from being many of these guy's teammates to now being their manager. I know CC played with Braun, but I'm guessing he was probably the only one that was still on the team when he took over the manager's role, right? So, you didn't have as much of that dynamic as Ross will have. But, if Ross was the "hard ass" on those championship teams, then I'm sure he wouldn't have too big of an issue fitting right back into that role - except this time he's the manager.

 

But, with my Cubs hatred - I hope this blows up in their face!

[Baldkin]

Regarding bryant, i actually think it's written in the CBA that you can't hold a guy back specifically to manipulate service time. The problem comes in proving it. Im sure the cubs have half a dozen contributing factors that they will list as reasons, will be tough for bryant to prove otherwise.

 

It is not written into the CBA, it is an underlying legal doctrine (https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=906) which governs contracts.

 

There have been many appeals against this doctrine, but it has always held that collective bargaining agreements (like MLB's) must adhere to this standard.

 

Anyway, if you'd like to get into more legalese (I was fascinated by this when the Brewers screwed over JJ Hardy) Fangraphs has a great summary: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-possible-legal-argument-against-service-time-manipulation/

[NYChez]

By default, the handling of the Cubs’ bullpen will be much improved.

[long ball]

I think Ross will probably be fine. Ultimately it's up to the front office to put together a strategic plan and for Ross to message that strategic plan to the players and implement it on the field.

 

I have no idea how Maddon continued to use the same relievers basically to the point of ineffectiveness. It felt common for him to use relievers 3 days in a row or 4 out of 5 days. I feel like from the top down they need to re-evaluate the rest they're giving to the relief pitchers.

[rickh150]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

 

Unlike some clubs (Pirates, Reds, Brewers, Royals, etc...) the Cubs have the money to buy just about any FA they want. Plus they have the cash to re-sign their own players if they so choose and to take on huge contracts for players rebuilding teams are trying to get off the books. I don't see them being in the dumpster fire catagory.

 

Cubs have money. They will buy whatever. With all that money, and new money coming in, they have a big advantage each season before anything begins.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

My take is that he's probably going to be fine but their roster is likely going to be a dumpster fire in 2 years unless they get really weird this offseason...and the roster may need help as soon as this year.

 

Unlike some clubs (Pirates, Reds, Brewers, Royals, etc...) the Cubs have the money to buy just about any FA they want. Plus they have the cash to re-sign their own players if they so choose and to take on huge contracts for players rebuilding teams are trying to get off the books. I don't see them being in the dumpster fire catagory.

 

Cubs have money. They will buy whatever. With all that money, and new money coming in, they have a big advantage each season before anything begins.

Yeah and they have a lot of money available the next 3 years with contracts expiring (obviously talent needs to be replaced). I read they probably have $30 mil to spend this offseason, probably that or more next year then potentially a ton of money in 3 years. They also start their new TV Network this year which may push their available money higher and I’m sure they’ll hit on some prospects soon to at least be role players. I mean Hoerner was intriguing and was up already this year as a first round pick 2 years ago and they have 2-4 other (depending on publication) top 100 prospects. They needle is getting harder to thread than it was for them from 2015-2017 but I don’t think a complete bottom out is imminent. We can talk about pitching but who can really project any teams pitching more than 1-2 years out? It’s so volatile and they seem fine for another year or two with some marginal adds.

[bill hAll Star]

The Cubs have money and can spend to stay competitive in the next few years but it could be a very stupid idea come 2022. At some point I think they'll need a rebuild or they're just going to sit on a treadmill of 85 wins. Their only World Series victory in over 100 years is due to taking 3-4 years to rebuild and replenish the farm system.

 

Take a look at the recent trend of the Giants, a similar large market bully. The impending end of the Bryant/Rizzo/Lester contracts and primes + Baez (who may still have some prime left) needing to be paid is similar to the years as Lincecum, MadBum, Cain, Posey began to regress. That happened at different times but the Cubs could easily have a giant payroll of garbage in 2-3 years if they're not careful.

[clancyphile]

By default, the handling of the Cubs’ bullpen will be much improved.

 

That is the bad news from this change.

[MrTPlush]

I’m not really concerned. This is either meaningless or makes them worse. I don’t think Maddon is a bad manager, not like he lost the clubhouse or something. Yeah, his bullpen management is very questionable...but their problems are way bigger than a manager.

 

They can spend a bunch of money for a few years, but hopefully for them they decide to rebuild while they still have some stars to give out. They may still have a few competitive years left, but it requires payroll and eventually age of their stars and the FA additions will catch up.

[bill hAll Star]

I know that Maddon's bullpen usage was not optimal, including using one guy for one out every single day or something like that...but their bullpen was also hot garbage for the past 2 years. So they'll have to fix that if they want to actually fix their bullpen.

[Underachiever]

Yu Darvish (35 years old, 2 years left)

Doesn't Darvish have four years left? Thought he signed a six-year contract.

[MrTPlush]

Yu Darvish (35 years old, 2 years left)

Doesn't Darvish have four years left? Thought he signed a six-year contract.

 

Their roster after 2021 is:

Jason Heyward (32 years old, 2 years left)

Yu Darvish (35 years old, 2 years left)

Kyle Hendricks (32 years old, 2 years left)

Willson Contreras (30 years old, 1 year left)

David Bote (who cares)