Milwaukee Bucks 2019 - 20 Season Thread

[Samurai Bucky]

The 1994 Expos is not a bad position to end up in. They are way more famous than they would have been if they had lost in the playoffs.

... but then they moved on '04... I guess the Bucks will move in 2030...

[Mr Southpaw]

Vegas might be the temporary home for the rest of the NBA season. Sounds like a good plan.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-and-wnba-were-offered-a-whole-block-on-the-las-vegas-strip-to-play-and-live-by-mgm-resorts-report-says/

[adambr2]

I think it's about as good of a plan as they can get and I hope they get it done. If being quarantined for a couple months with your family in a Vegas NBA village is the worst experience of your life, you could do a lot worse.

 

If they are waiting for a perfect plan to just fall into their lap, it is not going to happen.

[HiAndTight]

I understand the context of the situation, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Bucks literally drafted Dirk Nowitzki and immediately traded him for Tractor Traylor. Honestly, the whole, ‘Bucks could’ve traded Andrew Bogut for Steph Curry, but wanted Monta Ellis instead’ misconception is more ridiculous.

 

Dirk was a Buck the same way Eli Manning was a Charger. It was simply a prearranged deal that due to some odd rules was not allowed to be announced until afterwards. The Bucks targeted Traylor, and Dirk was more than likely never on the radar whatsoever.

 

I believe it's even more than that. I thought that Nelson went over to Germany, spent time with Dirk, had a relationship with Dirk and Dirk and his parents ONLY felt comfortable with him coming to the US if he was going to Dallas.

 

So if the Bucks don't pick him, at least as I recall, there's every chance he doesn't even come over to the NBA for a few more years or refuses to play for the Bucks.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

There was a 30 for 30 I believe on the Dirk issue. Dirk and Donnie Nelson had a great relationship. Dirk cane to the US for an elite basketball tryout of sorts. His parents didn’t even know he was coming to the US as he was missing his opening league tournament game from his current team at the time. He competed in an event similar to the McDonalds game where Dirk was the star. After that game all of the scouts knew who he was but Donnie encouraged him not to talk to anybody and catch the next flight back to Germany.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Edit from above. It wasn’t a 30 for 30

 

ESPN https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26325996/they-stop-oral-history-dirk-nowitzki-1998-nike-hoop-summit%3fplatform=amp

[JackNicholson1974]

Lots of articles floating around that Golden State, who I guess still has the God given right to just acquire whoever they want, has somehow spent like the last 10 years budgeting and making moves in order to acquire Giannis.

 

I’m sick of hearing it.

 

I know if he wants to leave, he leaves. I get it. However, there is NO scenario where the bucks trade him that doesn’t result in the Bucks becoming the Atlanta hawks in 2 years. If they “sign and trade” and help both GSW and Giannis maximize his money and their cap situation while taking crap players and glorified second round draft picks I’m return I will never watch another game.

 

The way it is, I went to one game - one - in about 1994 and it was so depressing and boring I didn’t come back to another game until 2017-2018 season because of Giannis. Now this year I droppped hundreds on tickets for one game to see the bucks because of him. If they are complicit with allowing him to leave, I won’t be back.

[HiAndTight]

Lots of articles floating around that Golden State, who I guess still has the God given right to just acquire whoever they want, has somehow spent like the last 10 years budgeting and making moves in order to acquire Giannis.

 

I’m sick of hearing it.

 

I know if he wants to leave, he leaves. I get it. However, there is NO scenario where the bucks trade him that doesn’t result in the Bucks becoming the Atlanta hawks in 2 years. If they “sign and trade” and help both GSW and Giannis maximize his money and their cap situation while taking crap players and glorified second round draft picks I’m return I will never watch another game.

 

The way it is, I went to one game - one - in about 1994 and it was so depressing and boring I didn’t come back to another game until 2017-2018 season because of Giannis. Now this year I droppped hundreds on tickets for one game to see the bucks because of him. If they are complicit with allowing him to leave, I won’t be back.

 

 

There is no scenario in which Giannis leaving the Bucks leaves them in a good situation...BUT if it does indeed come to that, as crippling as it'd be for the organization, they still have an obligation to try and do what they can to build for the future.

 

If Giannis decides to leave getting something for him is obviously better than NOT getting something for him. Refusing to trade him at that point would just be petty on their behalf. If you can get a couple 1st round picks and as you say, get rid of some bad contracts, what else should they do? Refuse so that Giannis leaves but can't go to the team he wants? You're losing him anyway and as you pointed out, either way, they're going to be bad immediately following that.

 

That said...I'm actually pretty confident he's going to stay in Milwaukee and I understand where you're coming from. Him leaving would be absolutely brutal. And him going to Golden State with Curry and Klay in their latter years would be hard to watch.

[Oxy]

Is Adam Silver the ugliest human being of all-time? Or just the present times?

[JackNicholson1974]

Lots of articles floating around that Golden State, who I guess still has the God given right to just acquire whoever they want, has somehow spent like the last 10 years budgeting and making moves in order to acquire Giannis.

 

I’m sick of hearing it.

 

I know if he wants to leave, he leaves. I get it. However, there is NO scenario where the bucks trade him that doesn’t result in the Bucks becoming the Atlanta hawks in 2 years. If they “sign and trade” and help both GSW and Giannis maximize his money and their cap situation while taking crap players and glorified second round draft picks I’m return I will never watch another game.

 

The way it is, I went to one game - one - in about 1994 and it was so depressing and boring I didn’t come back to another game until 2017-2018 season because of Giannis. Now this year I droppped hundreds on tickets for one game to see the bucks because of him. If they are complicit with allowing him to leave, I won’t be back.

 

 

There is no scenario in which Giannis leaving the Bucks leaves them in a good situation...BUT if it does indeed come to that, as crippling as it'd be for the organization, they still have an obligation to try and do what they can to build for the future.

 

If Giannis decides to leave getting something for him is obviously better than NOT getting something for him. Refusing to trade him at that point would just be petty on their behalf. If you can get a couple 1st round picks and as you say, get rid of some bad contracts, what else should they do? Refuse so that Giannis leaves but can't go to the team he wants? You're losing him anyway and as you pointed out, either way, they're going to be bad immediately following that.

 

That said...I'm actually pretty confident he's going to stay in Milwaukee and I understand where you're coming from. Him leaving would be absolutely brutal. And him going to Golden State with Curry and Klay in their latter years would be hard to watch.

 

I disagree, maybe out of spite, but I disagree. If your girlfriend announced she was leaving you for another guy - and maybe for whatever reason he wasn’t as financially secure as you were, whatever, if you were upset by her leaving and he came to you and said “bro, help us out, we’d really like to move on together but if you just send us over that convertible she likes and maybe a few other things to make our lives more enjoyable that would be great, in return, I can give you a phone number to a girl I used to date back in the day” I don’t think I would go for that. If he leaves, why help his salary and their cap situation? For what, some crappy picks? No thanks.

[adambr2]

Well, it depends what we can get. I think we have evidence that this is still a pretty good team without Giannis. If you can get some real significant pieces, including at least one who has a chance to be your next franchise cornerstone, that's probably better than losing him for nothing.

 

However, if you keep him for one last year and win an NBA Championship, it's all worth it.

 

I hope it's all a moot point and that he signs the supermax. I have no idea what he intends to do. If he ends up in Golden State I may completely tune out of the NBA for awhile out of total disgust, although I would simultaneously respect his right to make that choice.

[rickh150]

When is the date that we can offer the max? Has it been moved back?

[reillymcshane]

When is the date that we can offer the max? Has it been moved back?

Technically it is July 1. But I think things are kind of fluid right now. Gotta figure out when the season actually begins and so forth. I doubt the season is going to be done on July 1. I'm guessing they'll be done more like September 1. But who knows.

[reillymcshane]

What kills me is the trade packages people are putting together for Giannis. The one that I've seen bandied about is Giannis for Andrew Wiggins, the Warriors 1st rounder this year (maybe the top pick), Minnesota's 2021 #1 pick (which could easily be a lottery pick next year - but is top 3 protected), and the Warriors #1 pick in 2021.

 

1. The top pick in this year's draft (assuming the Warriors) would be great to have, but there's no Zion-type player. It's a mediocre class without any superstar level type players coming out.

 

2. Getting Andrew Wiggins is not a positive. $31M a year for a guy who is a mediocre 3-point shorter and bad defensive player. I love how people suddenly start talking about Andrew Wiggins as if he's an all-star level guy. It's one of the worst contracts in the league. The Wolves basically gave up their 2021 pick to get rid of him.

 

3. The Warriors #1 pick in the 2021 draft (assuming they got Giannis in a trade) would be near the very end of the round - so it doesn't have a ton of value. Nice to have? Sure. But not a great asset.

 

4. The Timberwolves 2021 pick would be really intriguing as the the draft class is supposed to be quite strong. A top 10 pick would be really good.

 

The #1 picks are all really good. But none is a sure thing. And adding Wiggins would be awful.

 

The Clippers gave up five 1st rounders and the ability to swap two others (plus two decent players - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Danilo Gallinari) for two year's of Paul George. Giannis - even one year of him - should net something closer to that (granted, no guarantee where those picks will fall - and many will be toward the end of the round).

 

I'd rather play Giannis another year in Milwaukee and try and win a championship - and let him walk in FA - rather than settle for a mediocre return. You only have so many chances to win a championship - so you have to take them. A bunch of fifth seeded playoff teams don't do much (although the owners might be happy with the money).

 

Plus, if you deal Giannis to the Warriors - they are hands down favorites to win it for a few years. Curry, Thompson, Green, Giannis - that would be really good.

[nodakfan17]

I’m not a huge NBA guy, but if Giannis plays out his current contract without signing a super max extension, can’t the Bucks still organize a sign and trade to Giannis’ preferred team so that he gets maximum compensation? Didn’t the Warriors technically ‘trade’ Kevin Durant for DeAngelo Russell and a first round pick? If so, I don’t think there is a realistic trade scenario that has Giannis leaving the Bucks with one year remaining on his contract.

[reillymcshane]

I’m not a huge NBA guy, but if Giannis plays out his current contract without signing a super max extension, can’t the Bucks still organize a sign and trade to Giannis’ preferred team so that he gets maximum compensation? Didn’t the Warriors technically ‘trade’ Kevin Durant for DeAngelo Russell and a first round pick? If so, I don’t think there is a realistic trade scenario that has Giannis leaving the Bucks with one year remaining on his contract.

You are correct.

 

But everyone has to play along for such a thing to work. But it's always an option.

[JackNicholson1974]

This is that I am saying. I’m not playing along of I am Bucks owner or GM. He doesn’t get the Supermax, the signing team doesn’t get the luxury of dumping some bad contracts on me, make him take less.

 

It’s 100% proven in NBA you cannot win a title without a superstar, so getting a bunch of picks is a complete non starter. We don’t need more DJ Wilson’s or TJ Fords.

 

Hopefully it never comes to this.

[CheezWizHed]

Well, the LeBrons, Giannises, Jordans, Nowitzkis were all picks at some point. If he is set on leaving, you take the best package back and try to rebuild. It's not like we can tie him up and hide him in the closet... or could we?

[HiAndTight]

I’m not a huge NBA guy, but if Giannis plays out his current contract without signing a super max extension, can’t the Bucks still organize a sign and trade to Giannis’ preferred team so that he gets maximum compensation? Didn’t the Warriors technically ‘trade’ Kevin Durant for DeAngelo Russell and a first round pick? If so, I don’t think there is a realistic trade scenario that has Giannis leaving the Bucks with one year remaining on his contract.

 

 

Yes, this is the only scenario I'm talking about. I wouldn't trade Giannis a year early like the Pelicans did with AD. And I don't think Giannis is asking us to. In fact, I'd bet just about anything that scenario is totally off the table.

 

But IF he didn't sign an extension and IF he was going to leave anyway, I think it's a no-brainer. You don't just throw your hands up and give up. You try and make your team better for the future. And you probably wouldn't get much in return.

 

The Bucks have been through this before in their franchise history with Kareem. Different circumstance, but a superstar wanted out and the Bucks got what they could and tried to salvage as much as they could.

[HiAndTight]

 

I disagree, maybe out of spite, but I disagree. If your girlfriend announced she was leaving you for another guy - and maybe for whatever reason he wasn’t as financially secure as you were, whatever, if you were upset by her leaving and he came to you and said “bro, help us out, we’d really like to move on together but if you just send us over that convertible she likes and maybe a few other things to make our lives more enjoyable that would be great, in return, I can give you a phone number to a girl I used to date back in the day” I don’t think I would go for that. If he leaves, why help his salary and their cap situation? For what, some crappy picks? No thanks.

 

 

Yeah, this is a funny analogy, but if in this scenario Giannis is the Girlfriend...nobody's suggesting the Bucks send the Warriors(just a hypothetical) all this extra stuff to help them out in addition to Giannis. Obviously the BUCKS would be receiving the items. The Bucks would get the draft picks and cap relief.

 

Nobody's saying you go out of your way to help them with their salary cap. Take Malcom Brogdon. The Bucks didn't want to pay 22 million per year, he was leaving anyway, so we got a 1st round pick in return.

 

You're taking this situation and you're giving them Giannis...AND throwing in all these extra things to help them that obviously wouldn't happen. Plus....you can't operate out of spite. If Giannis leave that would cripple the franchise in the near future, but it also wouldn't mean we couldn't compete again. You take as many picks as you can and hope you can hit on a couple of them.

[Mr Southpaw]

I don't get all the Giannis - contract talk about him wanting to leave. He seems to love his coaches, he seems to love his teammates, he seems to love Milwaukee, his family seems to call Wisconsin home. I don't recall him saying he would like to leave. Milwaukee can offer him waaaaay more money than anyplace else. This is not anywhere near what KAJ wanted to do in the 1970s. I see him staying, being rich, and being happy competing for multiple championships in Milwaukee with Bud, Kris, Brooks and the rest of the boys. My opinion, I really don't want to argue with anybody.

[nodakfan17]

I don't get all the Giannis - contract talk about him wanting to leave. He seems to love his coaches, he seems to love his teammates, he seems to love Milwaukee, his family seems to call Wisconsin home. I don't recall him saying he would like to leave. Milwaukee can offer him waaaaay more money than anyplace else. This is not anywhere near what KAJ wanted to do in the 1970s. I see him staying, being rich, and being happy competing for multiple championships in Milwaukee with Bud, Kris, Brooks and the rest of the boys. My opinion, I really don't want to argue with anybody.

I see this as by far the most likely outcome, but it won’t stop the networks and other teams’ entitled fans from speculating.

[reillymcshane]

I don't get all the Giannis - contract talk about him wanting to leave. He seems to love his coaches, he seems to love his teammates, he seems to love Milwaukee, his family seems to call Wisconsin home. I don't recall him saying he would like to leave. Milwaukee can offer him waaaaay more money than anyplace else. This is not anywhere near what KAJ wanted to do in the 1970s. I see him staying, being rich, and being happy competing for multiple championships in Milwaukee with Bud, Kris, Brooks and the rest of the boys. My opinion, I really don't want to argue with anybody.

Two things.

 

1. I don't think anyone is saying that Giannis wants to leave. But if he feels the Bucks can't win a championship with the team they've built - he might consider making a move.

 

2. I think a lot of this is simply people making money -- float ideas and stories and so forth to get clicks. It works. The amount of Anthony Davis stories last year was ridiculous. And the LeBron ones the year before.

 

Let's face it - California is a way bigger market than Milwaukee, and it gets clicks and views and sells papers to push the narrative of Giannis coming out there. You'll see the same thing coming from NY and Miami and wherever as well.

[reillymcshane]

Regarding the 'Giannis to Warriors' ideas being tossed around, the Athletic has a nice article about how it's going to nearly impossible to happen.

 

https://theathletic.com/1809588/2020/05/14/the-warriors-path-to-giannis-is-far-less-plausible-than-it-was-to-kevin-durant/

 

2021-22 season contracts

 

Curry: $45.8M

Thompson: $37.9

Green: $24.0M

Wiggins: $31.6M

Total: $139.4M

 

The projected salary cap for 2021-22 BEFORE the pandemic forced all the cancellations was $125M. That will likely drop.

 

There's no way Golden State could sign him outright (like they did with Durant five years ago - when they had cap space and there was a huge increase in the cap). They'd have to work a sign-and-trade deal. And that triggers a hard cap on the Warriors - limiting their flexibility.

 

Anyhow, that means if they added Giannis via sign and trade after the 2020-21 season, they have to rid themselves of Wiggins and - at minimum - one of Green or Thompson.

 

Curry, Thompson and Giannis (assume max contract) would cost around $122M. I don't even think they could add 11 league minimum guys and get under the cap. And can a team like that win a championship? And let's point out, Curry will be 33 in 2021-22. Thompson will be 31 - and who knows how he recover after his surgery.

 

Now, the Warriors could keep Draymond Green and deal Thompson - and gain another $13M. That helps, but Green, Curry, Giannis and the scrub squad aren't locks for anything.

 

Point is - there's little reason for Giannis to want to be in Golden State. The Bucks should just keep him - even if he doesn't sign an extension this offseason. Go for a championship. There's still a chance he stays. And even if he wants to leave in FA, perhaps we can get something via a sign-and-trade. It's worth it to try and win a championship.

[adambr2]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is stating for certain that Giannis wants to leave, I just don't think we have any idea of anything until the ink is dry. I'm long past ever taking professional athletes at their word no matter how sincere they seem.

 

Being able to offer him the most money just isn't as important as we'd like it to be. He's Giannis. He can go to L.A, build his own brand and make a fortune just off endorsements in California if he really wants to.