Milwaukee Bucks 2019 - 20 Season Thread

[tigerbrew]

Not winning the East would definitely be a major disappointment. It's hard to even say not winning the NBA Finals wouldn't be disappointing.

 

Last season I was very confident the Bucks would win the championship, Durant was out injuried and GSW was very beatable. The lost to the Raptors was heartbreaking for me.

 

This season it's championship or bust for me, anything else would be a big disappointment. I think if we don't win the championship this season, Giannis may not extend his contract this offseason and instead opt to be a free agent in 2021.

[tigerbrew]

Short list of Bucks who really haven't impressed in their roles this year: Robin Lopez, Sterling Brown

 

I'm ok with Robin Lopez as the second center, he protects the paint. Sterling Brown has been a big disappointment, I think he should be traded or send down to the Herd.

[tigerbrew]

Short list of Bucks who really haven't impressed in their roles this year: Robin Lopez, Sterling Brown

 

I'm ok with Robin Lopez as the second center, he protects the paint. Sterling Brown has been a big disappointment, I think he should be traded or send down to the Herd.

[sveumrules]

Absolutely running Malcolm Brogdon & the Pacers out of the FourOneForum on the second game of a back to back & third game in four days.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Reading a couple stories tonight about Malcolm Brogdon oh, it doesn't really sound like sour grapes, but he talks about leaving the Bucks because he didn't feel valued. Dude, you're playing on a team with the best player in the universe. How much do you think you're going to get the ball? It's not like he didn't get plenty of touches. So now he's on a team where he is the proverbial man, that literally will have no chance of getting to the finals. I guess if being the man is more important than getting a ring, congratulations?

[homer]

Big game against Philly on Christmas Day.

[adambr2]

Reading a couple stories tonight about Malcolm Brogdon oh, it doesn't really sound like sour grapes, but he talks about leaving the Bucks because he didn't feel valued. Dude, you're playing on a team with the best player in the universe. How much do you think you're going to get the ball? It's not like he didn't get plenty of touches. So now he's on a team where he is the proverbial man, that literally will have no chance of getting to the finals. I guess if being the man is more important than getting a ring, congratulations?

 

I guess by valued he means we didn't offer him 4/84. Looking at it, if you're talking about option A being paying Khris Middleton 35M a year or option B being paying Brogdon 21M a year and having 14M more to a year available m, I'm taking option B.

 

Watching this team I just have a hard time seeing Middleton as the second best player on this team. I see a lot of Michael Redd. There just isn't a lot of things he does really well whereas there's several things Brogdon does really well. With that said, I admittedly have no idea how devastating it would have been to our chances of keeping Giannis if we had let Khris walk. So that has to be considered regardless of the money. But Middleton is far and away the most overpaid player on the Bucks especially when you consider on any given night you might have 5 or 6 guys that played a bigger role. He just isn't on a level with too many other guys who make 35M a season. But they've got their core locked up if they can get Giannis to sign the supermax which is obviously the final piece of the puzzle.

[homer]

I think option A was signing Bledsoe. Brogdon wanted to run the point. He wasn't going to do that with Beldsoe around

[GAME05]

Like George Hill, I think Middleton got most of his contract largely on being clutch in the playoffs.

 

Besides, who's replacing Middleton? Kevin Love? We're still talking about a small-market city that probably most players don't want to be at. Maybe we'd have that ability to make some short-term splash like trading for the next Anthony Davis type player, but then in a year or two he'd be wanting out to go to some big market team. Middleton likes Milwaukee and there's also a value to having some relative permanence with your star players.

[areacodes]

Middleton is averaging 23.4 points per 36 minutes which ranks 24th in the NBA (per Basketball-Reference).

 

I’ll be honest in saying I don’t follow money/contracts in the NBA so I’m not really sure how it compares, but I think some are looking at his 18ppg and not factoring in how much rest the Bucks are able to give their players in game due to blowing teams out.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Middleton is fine. Per 36, he's dumping in 23.4 points, 7 boards, and 5 assists. He plays decent defense, can stop and pop, and he's gotten better at running with the fast break offense Bud wants these guys to run. Is he a max contract guy? No, not really, but he's fine. If paying Mids keeps Giannis happy (and here), I'm ok with him being a Buck. It hasn't kept Horst from putting together an *absolutely dominant* team that should be the East, and possibly NBA favorites this year.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Reading a couple stories tonight about Malcolm Brogdon oh, it doesn't really sound like sour grapes, but he talks about leaving the Bucks because he didn't feel valued. Dude, you're playing on a team with the best player in the universe. How much do you think you're going to get the ball? It's not like he didn't get plenty of touches. So now he's on a team where he is the proverbial man, that literally will have no chance of getting to the finals. I guess if being the man is more important than getting a ring, congratulations?

 

"They should have paid me but they paid Eric Bledsoe."

 

That's all this is about. When Bledsoe likely signed at a discount in the middle of the season the writing was on the wall. I'm not sure Brogdon offers what Bledsoe does on the defensive end of the floor. Brogdon may be a better player but it's one of those things where you have to look at incremental value. If paying Bledsoe instead means you can bring in Korver and Matthews then it just makes sense. Just using those names as examples, didn't crunch any numbers. But I think the incremental value was the decision maker.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Middleton is overpaid but that's really an empty word in the NBA. Your hand is forced if you can't reasonably get someone better than the guy you have.

 

What he is though, is really the only the guy the Bucks have that hits highly contested jumpers. They have some shooters, but Middleton can create a shot from nothing better than anyone they've got.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Reading a couple stories tonight about Malcolm Brogdon oh, it doesn't really sound like sour grapes, but he talks about leaving the Bucks because he didn't feel valued. Dude, you're playing on a team with the best player in the universe. How much do you think you're going to get the ball? It's not like he didn't get plenty of touches. So now he's on a team where he is the proverbial man, that literally will have no chance of getting to the finals. I guess if being the man is more important than getting a ring, congratulations?

 

"They should have paid me but they paid Eric Bledsoe."

 

That's all this is about. When Bledsoe likely signed at a discount in the middle of the season the writing was on the wall. I'm not sure Brogdon offers what Bledsoe does on the defensive end of the floor. Brogdon may be a better player but it's one of those things where you have to look at incremental value. If paying Bledsoe instead means you can bring in Korver and Matthews then it just makes sense. Just using those names as examples, didn't crunch any numbers. But I think the incremental value was the decision maker.

 

I like Brogdon, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't really create his own shot at all, he's a so-so defender, and he's more expensive.

 

I ALSO realize that the quote he gave was partly in response to a question from a reporter, but at the same time, it just seems like there's a more 'middle ground' way of answering whatever was asked. Dude was a 2nd round pick that the Bucks gave a chance to, turned him into a viable NBA player, and helped him make a LOT of money. Maybe he REALLY wanted to stay with the Bucks? I don't know. But if he wanted to be with the Bucks and be the primary ball handler and make 20 mil per year? I just don't see that as ever being a viable scenario.

[sveumrules]

According to Spotrac, Middleton is the 19th highest paid player this season at 30.6 million.

 

Coming into the season Forbes averaged the results of over a dozen preseason top 100 player lists, with some other predictive inputs mixed in & Khris came in at #32.

 

The 32nd highest paid player this year is making 27.3 million.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of players around the league that overpaid by more than Middleton's 3-4 million-ish.

[adambr2]

Bledsoe doesn't have the chronic foot issues that may plague Brogdon in the next 4 years and is obviously the better defender. I'm worried that Bledsoe may be a guy who just can't handle the bright playoff lights, which is concerning, but I'll give him another postseason before I declare that.

[tigerbrew]

According to Spotrac, Middleton is the 19th highest paid player this season at 30.6 million.

 

Coming into the season Forbes averaged the results of over a dozen preseason top 100 player lists, with some other predictive inputs mixed in & Khris came in at #32.

 

The 32nd highest paid player this year is making 27.3 million.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of players around the league that overpaid by more than Middleton's 3-4 million-ish.

 

$30.6 million is just for the first year of his contract, Middleton is going to get more overpaid with each passing year. In the final year, he will be paid $40.36 million.

 

2019-20 - $30,603,448

2020-21 - $33,051,724

2021-22 - $35,500,000

2022-23 - $37,948,276

2023-24 - $40,396,552 (player option)

[sveumrules]

$30.6 million is just for the first year of his contract, Middleton is going to get more overpaid with each passing year. In the final year, he will be paid $40.36 million.

 

2019-20 - $30,603,448

2020-21 - $33,051,724

2021-22 - $35,500,000

2022-23 - $37,948,276

2023-24 - $40,396,552 (player option)

 

Right. Many other players in Middleton's salary range will also see their salaries increase in coming seasons as most high dollar NBA contracts are structured in that fashion.

 

For the season at hand, it appears he is overpaid by less than 5 million dollars, which ultimately is a relatively paltry sum & far less than the die hard Khris detractors make it out to be.

[tigerbrew]

I like Brogdon a lot and would've preferred keeping Brogdon than giving Middleton the max contract. I'd prefer to have Brogdon than Bledsoe.

[tigerbrew]

$30.6 million is just for the first year of his contract, Middleton is going to get more overpaid with each passing year. In the final year, he will be paid $40.36 million.

 

2019-20 - $30,603,448

2020-21 - $33,051,724

2021-22 - $35,500,000

2022-23 - $37,948,276

2023-24 - $40,396,552 (player option)

 

Right. Many other players in Middleton's salary range will also see their salaries increase in coming seasons as most high dollar NBA contracts are structured in that fashion.

 

For the season at hand, it appears he is overpaid by less than 5 million dollars, which ultimately is a relatively paltry sum & far less than the die hard Khris detractors make it out to be.

 

The most important thing is for the Bucks to get Giannis to sign the max contract, he will still be underpaid in the max contract.

 

Giannis has made Middleton look good. If the Bucks don't have Giannis, Middleton is going to look very overpaid in his current max contract.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Brogdon has missed 34 and 18 games the last 2 years.

 

Part of why Middleton was signed and kept as a Buck was to keep Giannis happy. Part of his value comes from keeping the best basketball player on the planet (yup) wanting to stay on the Bucks. Giannis may or may not stay, but by all accounts, if the Bucks don't re-up Middleton, their chances of re-signing Giannis would be hindered.

 

It's not like MIddleton is some 34 year old who's going to be ancient when he hits the end of this deal. He's 28, and having one of his best seasons, if not best season ever, by PER or WS/48. He's doing everything and playing good ball on both ends of the floor. The Bucks are 27 - 4.... 27 and 4 !!! and have Mids, Lopez and Bledsoe signed to multi-year deals, and if they make it to the Finals, have a REALLY good shot of signing Giannis to a super-max deal. The core of the team that's absolutely destroying everything in it's path will be together for the next 3-4 years and we're complaining that Midds is overpaid? Horst has more than shown that he's fairly shrewd and can find the pieces he needs to work within the very tricky NBA salary cap.

 

I know it was said many many times before. The Bucks choice was to sign and keep Middleton, or not spend the money. Their wasn't another option. It wasn't let Middleton walk and sign some free agent to replace him. It was sign Middleton, or lose out. Yes, he's overpaid, but it was lose him or pay him, pretty much... period, end of story. And Brogdon doesn't bring what Middleton brings to the floor.

[Mr Southpaw]

Brogdon has missed 34 and 18 games the last 2 years.

 

Part of why Middleton was signed and kept as a Buck was to keep Giannis happy. Part of his value comes from keeping the best basketball player on the planet (yup) wanting to stay on the Bucks. Giannis may or may not stay, but by all accounts, if the Bucks don't re-up Middleton, their chances of re-signing Giannis would be hindered.

 

It's not like MIddleton is some 34 year old who's going to be ancient when he hits the end of this deal. He's 28, and having one of his best seasons, if not best season ever, by PER or WS/48. He's doing everything and playing good ball on both ends of the floor. The Bucks are 27 - 4.... 27 and 4 !!! and have Mids, Lopez and Bledsoe signed to multi-year deals, and if they make it to the Finals, have a REALLY good shot of signing Giannis to a super-max deal. The core of the team that's absolutely destroying everything in it's path will be together for the next 3-4 years and we're complaining that Midds is overpaid? Horst has more than shown that he's fairly shrewd and can find the pieces he needs to work within the very tricky NBA salary cap.

 

I know it was said many many times before. The Bucks choice was to sign and keep Middleton, or not spend the money. Their wasn't another option. It wasn't let Middleton walk and sign some free agent to replace him. It was sign Middleton, or lose out. Yes, he's overpaid, but it was lose him or pay him, pretty much... period, end of story. And Brogdon doesn't bring what Middleton brings to the floor.

 

I liken Middleton to Bobby Dandridge, one of my favorite Bucks growing up. Very good player, never going to be great. The kind of player you need on your team to win championships.

[Mr Southpaw]

Brogdon has missed 34 and 18 games the last 2 years.

 

Part of why Middleton was signed and kept as a Buck was to keep Giannis happy. Part of his value comes from keeping the best basketball player on the planet (yup) wanting to stay on the Bucks. Giannis may or may not stay, but by all accounts, if the Bucks don't re-up Middleton, their chances of re-signing Giannis would be hindered.

 

It's not like MIddleton is some 34 year old who's going to be ancient when he hits the end of this deal. He's 28, and having one of his best seasons, if not best season ever, by PER or WS/48. He's doing everything and playing good ball on both ends of the floor. The Bucks are 27 - 4.... 27 and 4 !!! and have Mids, Lopez and Bledsoe signed to multi-year deals, and if they make it to the Finals, have a REALLY good shot of signing Giannis to a super-max deal. The core of the team that's absolutely destroying everything in it's path will be together for the next 3-4 years and we're complaining that Midds is overpaid? Horst has more than shown that he's fairly shrewd and can find the pieces he needs to work within the very tricky NBA salary cap.

 

I know it was said many many times before. The Bucks choice was to sign and keep Middleton, or not spend the money. Their wasn't another option. It wasn't let Middleton walk and sign some free agent to replace him. It was sign Middleton, or lose out. Yes, he's overpaid, but it was lose him or pay him, pretty much... period, end of story. And Brogdon doesn't bring what Middleton brings to the floor.

 

I liken Middleton to Bobby Dandridge, one of my favorite Bucks growing up. Very good player, never going to be great. The kind of player you need on your team to win championships.

[jason21nl]

What a piss poor first half from a team that looks like they have zero interest in playing today.

[Mr Southpaw]

Like the fact that everyone is getting restricted minutes, games to sit. All this and not dropping games you should win.