Catcher Position for 2020

[bill hAll Star]

I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.

 

FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

 

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

 

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

 

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.

[Vollbc74]

Navarez & Seager for Cain works in the Trade Value simulator

 

That gets us out of Cain's deal 1 year earlier (2022 TO on Seager), gives us a RH 3b/1b option, and an great hitting C.

[bill hAll Star]

Navarez & Seager for Cain works in the Trade Value simulator

 

That gets us out of Cain's deal 1 year earlier (2022 TO on Seager), gives us a RH 3b/1b option, and an great hitting C.

 

What are you going to do with Cain's saved money?

 

Not only does Seattle have zero reason to send equal cash in and cash out for a guy that won't help them in the future, you're basically chopping 1-5 WAR off of the Brewers just so you can be a frugal fan and say, "well, at least we don't have that bad contract!"

 

Unless you're planning on spending the cash on another contract of Cain's ilk that will turn into 2020 Cain contract situation anyways. Then...fine, I guess.

 

But again, most importantly here...I cannot see any reason for Seattle to do this. They get a risky Cain contract sitting on their books while they tank and then have an extra year of burden at the end. Why?

[mlloyd10]

I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.

 

FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

 

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

 

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

 

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.

 

2022 becomes a player option if he is traded

[patrickgpe]

Omar for Grisham / Henry? I think it is going to take a decent package to get him, which may not be worth it for a catcher that struggles defensively.

[wntrtxn21]

I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.

 

FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

 

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

 

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

 

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.

 

Seager is owed $20.5M (AAV) per year for the next two years. $19.5M-18.5M and the third year is a $15M team option with a $3M buyout. The M's aren't going to send $20M cash plus Narvaez and Seager for Cain.

[RollieTime]

On the trade simulator site, Narvaez for Corey Ray is just about even. His surplus value is listed as only 5.1. For 3 years of a very good hitting catcher, I would do that. His bat is good enough to see some time at first as well to keep him in the lineup.

[SRB]

Why would anyone want a catcher who is terrible defensively and whose own team is actively trying to shop him with three years of control left?

 

I normally don't mind trading defense for offense, but not at catcher on a team with a young, questionable pitching staff.

[Brewersfanatic2882]

A lot of people talk about Omar's defense. Yes it's bad, but we also have pina to back him up. Omar is a perfect fit imo.

 

- He's left handed and hit 22 hr's with seatle being his home ballpark. He could hit more at Miller Park

 

- He'd be a good platoon for pina. Hit very well vs righties, but lefties he struggled pretty badly

 

- He's projected to earn a little over 2 mil next year. Leaves lots of money to fix other holes on the team.

 

- he's only 27 and has 3 years of control

 

I think this could get done without giving up a ton. I think a deal with Corey Ray and Peyton Henry is something the Mariners would strongly consider and something I would do. I'm not worried about the defense with Pina being our backup.

[reillymcshane]

I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.

 

FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

 

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

 

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

 

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.

 

Seager is owed $20.5M (AAV) per year for the next two years. $19.5M-18.5M and the third year is a $15M team option with a $3M buyout. The M's aren't going to send $20M cash plus Narvaez and Seager for Cain.

One note about Seager. His option is currently a team option. But if he is traded, it becomes a player option.

[beekay414]

Sign Castro to be the LHB in a platoon with Pina and bring Freitas up as the 3rd C/26th man.

[brewmann04]

what will be the cost to trade for him is giving Ray up for him o much?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

what will be the cost to trade for him is giving Ray up for him o much?

 

Who knows what the heck DiPoto is going to look for in a deal? He's a total enigma with the deals he makes.

[Jopal78]

First of all, Seattle is rebuilding. For those who may have forgotten this means they are looking to add long term talent to their organization. They’re not going to trade one of the few chips they have, a catcher who can hit, without getting long term pieces in return. So regardless if a ‘trade evaluater’ website says it’s even, Seattle has zero use for Lorenzo Cain. (This goes without mentioning the GM who signed Cain less than two calendar years ago likely has a different perspective on him than many of the posters here).

 

Also, Seager was a 2.5 WAR player last year. I’m sure Seattle would move him if they were offered the right combination of young talent. They’re not going to simply give him away, let alone pay cash for him to play for somebody else.

 

I presume Jerry DiPoto wants to keep his job. The scenario of actually pulling the trigger on deals where he trades his most valuable major league pieces and throws in cash to get another big contract and some dog rockets from Milwaukee’s farm system doesn’t make his organization better in the long run nor the short run.

[wntrtxn21]

Sign Castro to be the LHB in a platoon with Pina and bring Freitas up as the 3rd C/26th man.

 

You saw what the Brewers think of Freitas when Pina was hurt last year. He caught exactly zero innings and was used sparingly as an early PH. He's a career AAA catcher. The Brewers won't waste a spot on him.

[brewmann04]

I agree on Dipoto and not knowing what he wants.

[brewcrewdue80]

First of all, Seattle is rebuilding. For those who may have forgotten this means they are looking to add long term talent to their organization. They’re not going to trade one of the few chips they have, a catcher who can hit, without getting long term pieces in return. So regardless if a ‘trade evaluater’ website says it’s even, Seattle has zero use for Lorenzo Cain. (This goes without mentioning the GM who signed Cain less than two calendar years ago likely has a different perspective on him than many of the posters here).

 

Also, Seager was a 2.5 WAR player last year. I’m sure Seattle would move him if they were offered the right combination of young talent. They’re not going to simply give him away, let alone pay cash for him to play for somebody else.

 

I presume Jerry DiPoto wants to keep his job. The scenario of actually pulling the trigger on deals where he trades his most valuable major league pieces and throws in cash to get another big contract and some dog rockets from Milwaukee’s farm system doesn’t make his organization better in the long run nor the short run.

 

Yeah, I find it fairly amazing how quick to want to dump a Gold Glove CF because he's being paid for production that he exceeded and made him a near 7WAR player in 2018, because 2019 he didn't achieve 3WAR. Check his stats, he's had an off season in the past. and rebounded better than before. Who you going to replace him with in CF that produces 3+WAR on an average? With GG defense? I get the Braun and age regression.(though he did have a 116+OPS+last season) Let Cain be. His value whether an overpay or not is worth it.

[MadThinker88]

It appears Vogt is off the board...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/diamondbacks-sign-stephen-vogt.html

[mtrebs]

This catching situation is getting me nervous. I know it’s early, but there’s obviously a run on catchers now. Time to you-know-what or get off the pot Stearns!

[IntentionalHBP]

I wouldn’t mind if we got Mejia.

[wntrtxn21]

This catching situation is getting me nervous. I know it’s early, but there’s obviously a run on catchers now. Time to you-know-what or get off the pot Stearns!

 

I wonder if Stearns' inaction means a trade for a catcher is in the works? I'd be ok with Pina and a decent backup if they re-sign Moose and get a much more productive SS. Firstbase and pitching also has to be addressed pretty soon.

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah, I find it fairly amazing how quick to want to dump a Gold Glove CF because he's being paid for production that he exceeded and made him a near 7WAR player in 2018, because 2019 he didn't achieve 3WAR. Check his stats, he's had an off season in the past. and rebounded better than before. Who you going to replace him with in CF that produces 3+WAR on an average? With GG defense? I get the Braun and age regression.(though he did have a 116+OPS+last season) Let Cain be. His value whether an overpay or not is worth it.

 

What Cain did at age 27 following an off year is mostly irrelevant when you're now talking about a 34 year old. Those interested in moving on from Cain are more concerned that this is the trend, not an outlier, that will result in him being an albatross the last two years of his deal, and that's a valid concern, IMO.

[mtrebs]

This catching situation is getting me nervous. I know it’s early, but there’s obviously a run on catchers now. Time to you-know-what or get off the pot Stearns!

 

I wonder if Stearns' inaction means a trade for a catcher is in the works? I'd be ok with Pina and a decent backup if they re-sign Moose and get a much more productive SS. Firstbase and pitching also has to be addressed pretty soon.

 

Yes, I hope there’s something in the works. Last thing I want to have happen is we continue to wait for options and nothing happens.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

I wouldn’t mind if we got Mejia.

 

Personally think this guy is overrated. Strikes out 25% of the time. Rather just let Nottingham have a shot. Wouldn’t cost us anything either.

[brewcrewdue80]

Just perused some of the prior and newer top catcher prospects. Looking for maybe a guy blocking or being blocked. The Arizona DBacks have Carson Kelly now who played well last season. And then there is a one Daulton Varsho. From WI that is projected to make the Majors in 2020. Let's make a deal! I'll return to this later but go ahead. Discuss.

 

So the DBacks signed Vogt. They have better catchers at their disposal?