Catcher Position for 2020

[wntrtxn21]

Yan Gomes had his contract bought out by the Nats & is a free agent..

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/nationals-to-decline-options-on-ryan-zimmerman-yan-gomes.html

 

While I understand the preference of Grandal, Gomes would make sense as a much cheaper fall back option & allow funds to be reallocated to other positions of need..

Is Gomes really any different than Pina?

 

Gomes has a career .297 OBP. Worse than Pina and he made over $7M last year. There are better, cheaper options out there.

[Eye Black]

The MLB Trade Rumors prediction to this question...

 

26. Travis d’Arnaud – Brewers. Two years, $14MM.

 

D’Arnaud, 31 in February, was the 37th overall pick by the Phillies out of high school back in 2007. Drafted for his defensive abilities at catcher, d’Arnaud surpassed his younger brother, Chase, as a prospect and was traded to the Blue Jays in the Phillies’ December 2009 deal for the late, great Roy Halladay. As d’Arnaud’s prospect rating continued to rise, he was included in a second major trade three years later, joining Noah Syndergaard as part of the Mets’ return for R.A. Dickey.

 

D’Arnaud suffered a partially torn posterior cruciate ligament in his left knee at Triple-A in the season leading up to his Mets trade, and it was a sign of things to come. The touted backstop’s Mets career spanned 407 games over parts of seven seasons and was wracked by injuries, from a broken foot in 2013 to elbow surgery in 2014 to a broken hand and sprained elbow in 2015 to a rotator cuff strain in 2016 to a bruised wrist in 2017 to Tommy John surgery in 2018. From 2015-18, d’Arnaud had an IL stint lasting at least three weeks in every season. Yikes.

 

Somehow, once the Mets finally gave up on him in April of this year, d’Arnaud’s fortunes changed. After a one-game stop-off with the Dodgers, d’Arnaud was dealt to the Rays and posted a 107 wRC+ in 365 plate appearances. In June and July, d’Arnaud was not only the best-hitting catcher in baseball, he was the fifth-best hitter in all of MLB. He tailed off significantly after that, but importantly was able to avoid the IL. Notably, for a catcher returning from Tommy John surgery, he threw out an above-average 29 percent of attempted thieves on the bases this season. He’s also long been considered an average or better framer. Compared to veterans Robinson Chirinos and Jason Castro, d’Arnaud offers upside along with ample injury risk. The Rays still make sense, and d’Arnaud could also be of interest to the Brewers, Nationals, Pirates, Tigers, Astros, Angels, and Rangers.

[82brewcrew82]

The MLB Trade Rumors prediction to this question...

 

26. Travis d’Arnaud – Brewers. Two years, $14MM.

 

D’Arnaud, 31 in February, was the 37th overall pick by the Phillies out of high school back in 2007. Drafted for his defensive abilities at catcher, d’Arnaud surpassed his younger brother, Chase, as a prospect and was traded to the Blue Jays in the Phillies’ December 2009 deal for the late, great Roy Halladay. As d’Arnaud’s prospect rating continued to rise, he was included in a second major trade three years later, joining Noah Syndergaard as part of the Mets’ return for R.A. Dickey.

 

D’Arnaud suffered a partially torn posterior cruciate ligament in his left knee at Triple-A in the season leading up to his Mets trade, and it was a sign of things to come. The touted backstop’s Mets career spanned 407 games over parts of seven seasons and was wracked by injuries, from a broken foot in 2013 to elbow surgery in 2014 to a broken hand and sprained elbow in 2015 to a rotator cuff strain in 2016 to a bruised wrist in 2017 to Tommy John surgery in 2018. From 2015-18, d’Arnaud had an IL stint lasting at least three weeks in every season. Yikes.

 

Somehow, once the Mets finally gave up on him in April of this year, d’Arnaud’s fortunes changed. After a one-game stop-off with the Dodgers, d’Arnaud was dealt to the Rays and posted a 107 wRC+ in 365 plate appearances. In June and July, d’Arnaud was not only the best-hitting catcher in baseball, he was the fifth-best hitter in all of MLB. He tailed off significantly after that, but importantly was able to avoid the IL. Notably, for a catcher returning from Tommy John surgery, he threw out an above-average 29 percent of attempted thieves on the bases this season. He’s also long been considered an average or better framer. Compared to veterans Robinson Chirinos and Jason Castro, d’Arnaud offers upside along with ample injury risk. The Rays still make sense, and d’Arnaud could also be of interest to the Brewers, Nationals, Pirates, Tigers, Astros, Angels, and Rangers.

I don't know. Doesn't seem like a Stearns guy to me.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The MLB Trade Rumors prediction to this question...

 

26. Travis d’Arnaud – Brewers. Two years, $14MM.

 

D’Arnaud, 31 in February, was the 37th overall pick by the Phillies out of high school back in 2007. Drafted for his defensive abilities at catcher, d’Arnaud surpassed his younger brother, Chase, as a prospect and was traded to the Blue Jays in the Phillies’ December 2009 deal for the late, great Roy Halladay. As d’Arnaud’s prospect rating continued to rise, he was included in a second major trade three years later, joining Noah Syndergaard as part of the Mets’ return for R.A. Dickey.

 

D’Arnaud suffered a partially torn posterior cruciate ligament in his left knee at Triple-A in the season leading up to his Mets trade, and it was a sign of things to come. The touted backstop’s Mets career spanned 407 games over parts of seven seasons and was wracked by injuries, from a broken foot in 2013 to elbow surgery in 2014 to a broken hand and sprained elbow in 2015 to a rotator cuff strain in 2016 to a bruised wrist in 2017 to Tommy John surgery in 2018. From 2015-18, d’Arnaud had an IL stint lasting at least three weeks in every season. Yikes.

 

Somehow, once the Mets finally gave up on him in April of this year, d’Arnaud’s fortunes changed. After a one-game stop-off with the Dodgers, d’Arnaud was dealt to the Rays and posted a 107 wRC+ in 365 plate appearances. In June and July, d’Arnaud was not only the best-hitting catcher in baseball, he was the fifth-best hitter in all of MLB. He tailed off significantly after that, but importantly was able to avoid the IL. Notably, for a catcher returning from Tommy John surgery, he threw out an above-average 29 percent of attempted thieves on the bases this season. He’s also long been considered an average or better framer. Compared to veterans Robinson Chirinos and Jason Castro, d’Arnaud offers upside along with ample injury risk. The Rays still make sense, and d’Arnaud could also be of interest to the Brewers, Nationals, Pirates, Tigers, Astros, Angels, and Rangers.

I don't know. Doesn't seem like a Stearns guy to me.

 

I agree. I think he's too much of an injury risk for the Brewers to take a chance on. Jason Castro probably makes a little more sense as a platoon mate with Pina. Not a great average, but he takes his walks and is solid behind the dish.

[82brewcrew82]

Castro is a decent option if you're sure he can sustain his performance from last year. I'm not sure his history suggests that doing so is likely.

[JosephC]

I like both Avila and Castro better than d'Arnaud. Both are left-handed bats that fit better with Pina. Both have better 3-year and career OBP's than d'Arnaud. d'Arnaud previously had good defensive statistics prior to 2019 (Baseball Prospectus), but really fell off last year. I suspect that might be due to noise in the system as his reputation is pretty good. But on the other hand, both Avila and Castro have ranked in the top 30 of the catcher metrics in each of the last two seasons.

 

d'Arnaud's injury history is what really steers me away from him. It also looks like he will be the highest paid of the three, and frankly if the Brewers cannot afford Grandal then I would rather go cheap with a catcher to pair with Pina.

 

About the only advantage that I can see with d'Arnaud is that he is two years younger than the other guys although he will be 31 when next season starts. Late bloomers always pop up and maybe d'Arnaud will be that guy, although I doubt it.

[Oxy]

Offer Grandal 5/75M. 2020-$18M, 2021- $18M, 2022- $15M, 2023 team option $12M, $5M buyout, 2024- team option 12M, $2M buyout.

 

That's 56M guaranteed. 3-5 years of control and team flexibility.

 

 

The guy is really good and versatile (switch hitter, can play 1st). He is a huge part of the lineup, a good value WAR-wise, and we've got the money to spend.

[clancyphile]

Offer Grandal 5/75M. 2020-$18M, 2021- $18M, 2022- $15M, 2023 team option $12M, $5M buyout, 2024- team option 12M, $2M buyout.

 

That's 56M guaranteed. 3-5 years of control and team flexibility.

 

 

The guy is really good and versatile (switch hitter, can play 1st). He is a huge part of the lineup, a good value WAR-wise, and we've got the money to spend.

 

Up it to 5/$90M, and you might pull it off - albeit if you can get Grandal to defer the payments.

 

$10 million bonus

$16 million/year for 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024.

[PeaveyFury]

Offer Grandal 5/75M. 2020-$18M, 2021- $18M, 2022- $15M, 2023 team option $12M, $5M buyout, 2024- team option 12M, $2M buyout.

 

That's 56M guaranteed. 3-5 years of control and team flexibility.

 

 

The guy is really good and versatile (switch hitter, can play 1st). He is a huge part of the lineup, a good value WAR-wise, and we've got the money to spend.

 

Up it to 5/$90M, and you might pull it off - albeit if you can get Grandal to defer the payments.

 

$10 million bonus

$16 million/year for 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024.

 

Are we bidding against ouselves here?

[Oxy]

Offer Grandal 5/75M. 2020-$18M, 2021- $18M, 2022- $15M, 2023 team option $12M, $5M buyout, 2024- team option 12M, $2M buyout.

 

That's 56M guaranteed. 3-5 years of control and team flexibility.

 

 

The guy is really good and versatile (switch hitter, can play 1st). He is a huge part of the lineup, a good value WAR-wise, and we've got the money to spend.

 

Up it to 5/$90M, and you might pull it off - albeit if you can get Grandal to defer the payments.

 

$10 million bonus

$16 million/year for 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024.

 

Are we bidding against ouselves here?

 

Nah. Clancy is bidding against me. He can have him if those aren't option years.

[clancyphile]

Up it to 5/$90M, and you might pull it off - albeit if you can get Grandal to defer the payments.

 

$10 million bonus

$16 million/year for 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024.

 

Are we bidding against ouselves here?

 

No, I thought Oxy's deal was too low, and had too few years.

 

Grandal wants the payday. He's earned it. I think his offensive profile - including superb OBP skills (evidenced over the last six years) - is going to stay solid. The big question is managing wear and tear.

 

Now, I think the Crew can do the wear and tear management with an eventual move of Grandal to first base. Grandal serves as primary catcher (100 games there 40-50 at 1B, Pina getting the other 62) for 2020-2022, eventually yielding to the Feliciano/Henry duo, and playing more and more 1B. I am banking that I can defer some of the money on the deal, and that Grandal will be amenable to an eventual move to first. But an AAV of $15M isn't going to bring Yaz back.

[RollieTime]

I’ll be shocked if Grandal gets a 4 year deal from anyone right now, let alone a 5 year deal. Plus I’m really not a fan of deferring money. Don’t really like the thought of paying $5-$10 million every single year to different guys that aren’t even playing for you. Maybe I’m just petty, but I don’t think it’s wise to do it. We already will be paying Cain and Braun $3 million total from 2023-2027. Doesn’t seem like much, but once you start adding more deferred money such as the $2 million more from the suggested Grandal signing that would be paid out in the similar window, now it’s up to $5 million. Maybe we will be rebuilding by then and it won’t make much of a difference, but if we hit on some guys in the drafts, develop a little pitching, and possibly make a timely trade or two of some big name guys after the 2020 or 2021 season, it would be nice to not be paying $10 million to guys not playing for us when we are trying to be competitive.

[clancyphile]

I’ll be shocked if Grandal gets a 4 year deal from anyone right now, let alone a 5 year deal. Plus I’m really not a fan of deferring money. Don’t really like the thought of paying $5-$10 million every single year to different guys that aren’t even playing for you. Maybe I’m just petty, but I don’t think it’s wise to do it. We already will be paying Cain and Braun $3 million total from 2023-2027. Doesn’t seem like much, but once you start adding more deferred money such as the $2 million more from the suggested Grandal signing that would be paid out in the similar window, now it’s up to $5 million. Maybe we will be rebuilding by then and it won’t make much of a difference, but if we hit on some guys in the drafts, develop a little pitching, and possibly make a timely trade or two of some big name guys after the 2020 or 2021 season, it would be nice to not be paying $10 million to guys not playing for us when we are trying to be competitive.

 

At some point, the Brewers will see the window close, and they will need to re-tool/re-build.

 

When will that be? Probably in the 2024-2028 timeframe, give or take a few seasons either way. That would be marked by a reduced payroll, so I don't see deferred compensation as being a huge problem. There would be few big-money players, and plenty of minor-league prospects who would, when they hit the big leagues, earn the minimum.

 

Plus, with the way TV revenue and other things are shifting, the Crew could be paying $10 million and it would not be a huge issue.

[Eye Black]

From the MLBTR site the other day, Blue Jays’ Catchers Drawing Trade Interest

 

 

Pitching is the Blue Jays’ top priority this winter, and Toronto has already made one notable move on that front with its acquisition of Chase Anderson from the Brewers. It remains to be seen whether the Jays will look to free agency or further trades to upgrade its staff, though in regards to the latter option, Sportsnet.ca’s Shi Davidi reports that Toronto’s “catchers have also been drawing interest from other clubs” in preliminary trade discussions.

 

Danny Jansen handled the bulk of the work behind the plate for the Jays last season, hitting only .207/.279/.360 over 384 plate appearances but displaying some excellent defensive prowess in his first full MLB campaign. Both StatCorner and Baseball Prospectus cited Jansen as one of the league’s best pitch-framers, with BP also highly praising Jansen’s blocking skills. The 24-year-old held his own at throwing out baserunners, stopped 19 of 61 stolen base attempts.

 

It was quite a performance for a player who was more touted for his offensive skill coming up through the farm system, and if Jansen can improve to even average production with the bat, he’ll be a very valuable catcher going forward. This could also make him an interesting trade chip, though since Jansen is controlled through the 2024 season, the Jays would certainly want a solid return for his services. It could ultimately make for a tough negotiation since a rival team could rightly argue that Jansen hasn’t yet shown much hitting skill at the big league level.

 

Ultimately, there’s probably more evidence that the Jays still see Jansen less as a trade chip and more as their catcher of the future, so that could make Reese McGuire more expendable. An oblique injury sent Luke Maile to the injured list in July and limited him to just three games for the remainder of the season, as McGuire went on a hot streak and more or less entered into a timeshare with Jansen down the stretch.

 

Selected 14th overall by the Pirates in the 2013 draft, McGuire was rather surprisingly traded to Toronto in a 2016 deadline deal, packaged with fellow prospect Harold Ramirez and veteran lefty Francisco Liriano for right-hander Drew Hutchison. The trade was mostly about unloading Liriano’s $18MM in remaining salary for the Bucs, leaving the Jays to potentially reap the benefits from a catcher who has hit very well (.297/.343/.539 with seven homers in 138 PA) in his brief Major League career. McGuire also has above-average blocking and framing grades — something of the opposite of Jansen, McGuire was considered more of a glove-first catcher during his time in the minors.

 

This leaves Luke Maile looking like a potential non-tender candidate unless the Jays can find a trade partner. The veteran is projected to earn only $800K in arbitration this winter, though may no longer have a spot on Toronto’s roster if Jansen and McGuire are the new regular duo. Maile turns 29 in February, and hit a respectable .248/.333/.366 over 231 PA in 2018, though that solid season was sandwiched between two very poor years at the plate in 2017 and 2019.

 

The Blue Jays could also look to move younger catchers from within their farm system. Gabriel Moreno (#8), Alejandro Kirk (#12), and Riley Adams (#27) are all ranked within MLB Pipeline’s list of the top 30 Jays prospects. Adams is the most developed, with 81 games at Double-A last season, while Kirk reached the advanced A-ball level and Moreno spent all of 2019 at Single-A Lansing.

 

I doubt the Blue Jays would be open to actually trading Danny Jansen, but Reese McGuire, entering his age-25 season, may be a more realistic trade target. If they were looking to take a shot on someone who is still probably a year away, Riley Adams seems sort of interesting.

[mlloyd10]

Reese McGuire is the exact player you try to acquire if you are the Brewers. Under team control until 2025.

[bill hAll Star]

Reese McGuire is the exact player you try to acquire if you are the Brewers. Under team control until 2025.

 

I'm personally not biting on his likely lucky or fluky MLB stats. He has talent/potential, but he has not really hit well at all in the minors.

 

He's projected for a .687 OPS next year.

 

Maybe he's got potential but the Jays would still be smart to make someone pay for that potential.

[mlloyd10]

We either make a trade or sign Travis d'Arnaud

 

Yas - .246 BA / .468 Slug / -0.4dWAR

d'Arnaud - .263 BA / .459 Slug / -0.1dWAR ( with Tampa )

 

The OBP is the huge difference

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If they decide to go the FA route for a catcher, I'm going to guess d'Arnaud or Jason Castro. Both seem like Stearns types.

 

But it wouldn't surprise me to see them roll with Pina/Nottingham/Freitas, and invest that Grandal $$$ at other spots, too.

[3and2Fastball]

It is hard to imagine spending big money on a Catcher that could be spent on pitching. Look at who was playing Catcher in the World Series! Manny Piña is plenty good enough, this team needs much better pitching

[Madhawk23]

It is hard to imagine spending big money on a Catcher that could be spent on pitching. Look at who was playing Catcher in the World Series! Manny Piña is plenty good enough, this team needs much better pitching

 

Yeah, find a cheap backup catcher to platoon with Pina (similar to Kratz a couple of years go), and use some of this $$ saved from Yaz to go improve the team in other areas. We all knew that Yaz was by far the best C on the market this winter, and that we probably weren't going to be the highest bidder for his services. I'm sure DS and Co. have a backup plan ready to go.

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah, find a cheap backup catcher to platoon with Pina (similar to Kratz a couple of years go)

 

That Pina/Kratz combo was pretty average at best offensively, though. I think you have to shoot for something better than a cheap replacement-level vet at the position, considering that guy is likely to get 30-50% of the starts.

[long ball]

I think Jason Castro probably makes the most sense as a platoon mate with Pina at this point. Lefty bat who is about a league average hitter against righties. He's unplayable against lefties which is ok with Pina around too.

 

Looks like he's a decent defender with ok pitch framing numbers.

 

Could do worse than a Pina/Castro time share.

[clancyphile]

Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...

[jonescm128]

Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...

 

It's November 21st.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...

 

Come on, man! You are certainly playing right into the thought processes of those of us who view you as a troll ...