Catcher Position for 2020

[Eye Black]

Last year we invested some effort in Solving the Catcher Position for 2019, and it turns out 16% of us came up with what in hindsight appears to have been the correct answer. While we will forgo the poll this time around, I figured we should start a thread dedicated to finding the solution for 2020. I know re-signing Grandal has it’s own thread, but if the Brewers are simply outbid for Grandal’s services what other options would you prefer to see explored this offseason?

 

Here is the list of likely Catcher free agents from MLB.com...

 

Yasmani Grandal (31 years old, 5.2 WAR) -- $16 million mutual option for 2020 ($2.25 million buyout)

Robinson Chirinos (36, 2.3)

Tyler Flowers (34, 2.1) -- $6 million club option for 2020 ($2 million buyout)

Jason Castro (33, 1.6)

Travis d’Arnaud (31, 1.6)

Alex Avila (33, 1.3)

Russell Martin (37, 1.2)

Brian McCann (36, 1.1)

Austin Romine (31, 0.9)

Martin Maldonado (33, 0.8)

Yan Gomes (32, 0.8) -- $9 million club option for 2020 ($1 million buyout)

Francisco Cervelli (34, 0.1)

Nick Hundley (36, -0.3)

Matt Wieters (34, -0.3)

Jonathan Lucroy (34, -0.5)

Chris Iannetta (37, -0.5)

Welington Castillo (33, -1.0) -- $8 million club option for 2020 ($500,000 buyout)

 

 

So that list isn’t all that encouraging. What are some potential trade possibilities? Here is one I came across this morning on the Baseball Trade Values site.

 

Brewers trade: RHP Corbin Burnes

 

Mariners trade: Catcher Omar Narváez and LHP Aaron Fletcher

 

I thought this was interesting from the standpoint Omar Narváez looks intriguing on paper. Admittedly I did not catch many Mariners games this year, and was only slightly familiar with him from his White Sox days. Omar Narváez is under team control for 3 more seasons and is entering his age-28 season in 2020.

 

So assuming the Brewers are not able to retain or re-sign Yasmani Grandal, what are your preferred moves for the catcher position (if any) heading into 2020?

[pacopete4]

Omar Navarez would be an ideal platoon guy with Pina.

 

Navarez vs. RHP: .287/.358/.431/.790 (Career)

Pina vs. LHP: .271/.339/.399/.738 (Career)

 

Navarez could start about 100-110 games while Pina picks up the rest. Plop that production in the 7-hole and we'll be fine at the catcher position. I'm fully on board with trying to pry him away from the Mariners.

[Jaylyn]

So, is everyone in agreement that Jacob Nottingham is at best a 4A player then and will never be a major contributor to the team? I'd like to give the kid a shot and see what he can do.

[MadThinker88]

FYI - Brian McCann announced his retirement after the NLCS.

 

IF the National buyout Yan Gomes, take a hard look. His offense is good every 3 years or so but behind the plate he is very good calling games, framing pitches and controlling the running came. He would be a very good partner for the younger starters..

[pacopete4]

So, is everyone in agreement that Jacob Nottingham is at best a 4A player then and will never be a major contributor to the team? I'd like to give the kid a shot and see what he can do.

 

Catchers move a long differently than other positions. He's not a 4A player. He will be 25 next season and needs to do a bit more at the AAA level before cementing him into being on the 25-man roster. He will probably get a shot but I'm just not ready to trust going into next season with him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

So, is everyone in agreement that Jacob Nottingham is at best a 4A player then and will never be a major contributor to the team? I'd like to give the kid a shot and see what he can do.

 

Catchers move a long differently than other positions. He's not a 4A player. He will be 25 next season and needs to do a bit more at the AAA level before cementing him into being on the 25-man roster. He will probably get a shot but I'm just not ready to trust going into next season with him.

 

Depending on what the Brewers do to firm up offensive production at other positions, and where they decide to put their limited FA dollars, I think I'd be ok with a Pina/Nottingham time share next year.

[reillymcshane]

If we can't resign Grandal, I'm guessing the club adds someone like Flowers. He's a very good defender, bat is not good, but it's not terrible. He would team up with Pina for a 50/50 platoon, so neither player gets worn down over the season.

 

It's not a great situation, but it would be fairly inexpensive, it would maintain our good defense behind the plate, and provide okay offensive production. Again, not good offense, just okay.

[wntrtxn21]

Omar Navarez would be an ideal platoon guy with Pina.

 

Navarez vs. RHP: .287/.358/.431/.790 (Career)

Pina vs. LHP: .271/.339/.399/.738 (Career)

 

Navarez could start about 100-110 games while Pina picks up the rest. Plop that production in the 7-hole and we'll be fine at the catcher position. I'm fully on board with trying to pry him away from the Mariners.

 

Huge problem! Navarez is one of, if not the worst defensive catchers (-30) in all baseball. Plus Stearns would have offer big prospects to get him. He is really a DH who catches.

[wntrtxn21]

FYI - Brian McCann announced his retirement after the NLCS.

 

IF the National buyout Yan Gomes, take a hard look. His offense is good every 3 years or so but behind the plate he is very good calling games, framing pitches and controlling the running came. He would be a very good partner for the younger starters..

 

Gomes isn't much with the bat. I think Pina offers more and at a lot less money.

[wntrtxn21]

If we can't resign Grandal, I'm guessing the club adds someone like Flowers. He's a very good defender, bat is not good, but it's not terrible. He would team up with Pina for a 50/50 platoon, so neither player gets worn down over the season.

 

It's not a great situation, but it would be fairly inexpensive, it would maintain our good defense behind the plate, and provide okay offensive production. Again, not good offense, just okay.

 

Would it be better to see what Nottingham could do as Pina's backup? Flowers is a nice backup, but if Pina is going to be the starter, I believe Nottingham deserves a look as the part-time catcher.

[MrTPlush]

Nottingham pretty much killed his chances having a terrible year offensively. For a catcher to get a chance (especially on a competing team) he needs to excel at hitting or defense. He certainly isn't a defensive wiz (although not terrible by any means) and obviously hitting sub .700 in AAA is not exactly impressive.

 

I don't get the attraction to him getting a spot. He has been absolutely just terrible offensively in the minors outside of his short stint in Colorado Springs since the 2016 season.

 

I would much rather spend a few million to get someone that can hit like Nottingham's ceiling instead of rolling the dice on Nottingham who may be an absolute waste of space on the roster.

[pacopete4]

Omar Navarez would be an ideal platoon guy with Pina.

 

Navarez vs. RHP: .287/.358/.431/.790 (Career)

Pina vs. LHP: .271/.339/.399/.738 (Career)

 

Navarez could start about 100-110 games while Pina picks up the rest. Plop that production in the 7-hole and we'll be fine at the catcher position. I'm fully on board with trying to pry him away from the Mariners.

 

Huge problem! Navarez is one of, if not the worst defensive catchers (-30) in all baseball. Plus Stearns would have offer big prospects to get him. He is really a DH who catches.

 

Good catch. I've changed my mind. He's just too crappy defensively to justify him being the main catcher.

[TURBO]

That is a lot of garbage.

 

That list PROVES the importance of a great hitting catcher in your line-up.

 

We need to spend the $ necessary in re-signing Grandal, the hole he will create by not signing him is just so significant.

 

Obviously I'd hate to lock up a huge 4 or 5 year deal, and hopefully the rest of the league feels the same way.

 

I'd even be willing to go 2 years at 20 million per season, or 3 at 17-18 million per season.

 

I just can't imagine our line-up without him.

 

If we go with Arcia at SS, we will have an absolute black hole in out line-up 7-9. If we keep Shaw and let Moose go, and what can happen does, we are screwed 6-9.

 

Not a winning formula.

 

We need to keep Grandal if at all possible imo.

[long ball]

That is a lot of garbage.

 

That list PROVES the importance of a great hitting catcher in your line-up.

 

We need to spend the $ necessary in re-signing Grandal, the hole he will create by not signing him is just so significant.

 

Obviously I'd hate to lock up a huge 4 or 5 year deal, and hopefully the rest of the league feels the same way.

 

I'd even be willing to go 2 years at 20 million per season, or 3 at 17-18 million per season.

 

I just can't imagine our line-up without him.

 

If we go with Arcia at SS, we will have an absolute black hole in out line-up 7-9. If we keep Shaw and let Moose go, and what can happen does, we are screwed 6-9.

 

Not a winning formula.

 

We need to keep Grandal if at all possible imo.

 

 

Ya this is basically where I'm at with the situation. Re-signing Grandal is the most important thing for the Brewers this off season.

 

Chirinos and d'arnaud are really the only guys on that list who are primary catchers. The rest are time share types. If they go with a time share type they need a big upgrade at SS and need to keep Moustakas.

[JohnBriggs12]

I could live with Narvaez. Even with his defensive shortcomings, B-R had him with a 2.1 overall WAR, and last year was the only year they rated his defense with a negative WAR. Have to like that Narvaez has improved with the bat every year. Another option is Castro, who posted an .851 OPS vs. RHP last year, though he slumped noticeably in the 2nd half.

[Jaylyn]

Grandal is going to get a big payday and I'm a little leery of giving a 31 year old catcher a four or five year contract. Pina is the primary, Nottingham backing up with a couple of starts each week.

[Madhawk23]

Grandal is going to get a big payday and I'm a little leery of giving a 31 year old catcher a four or five year contract. Pina is the primary, Nottingham backing up with a couple of starts each week.

 

Yeah, I'm starting to think as well that there is going to be very little chance of us bringing back Grandal. I think I'd only be interested in a 3 year offer to him, and something tells me that one of the bigger market teams will give him a 4 year deal with a higher AAV than what we could offer. If that's the case, then we'll be stuck looking for another option through either F/A or a trade. I know the F/A catching market is very weak this winter, but outside of a trade with the Dodgers - are there any other teams that have multiple younger C's that we might be able to partner up with on a trade? Anyone worth targeting?

[MrTPlush]

Lorenzo Cain and Yasmani Grandal on the same roster. I would be really surprised if Stearns starts piling a bunch of expensive aging payers on this team...I feel like he is smarter than that. Signing a 33 year old Cain to a 5 year deal was asking for some awful contract years, signing Grandal to a 3+ year deal is possibly asking for a similar fate. That is just a ton of risk that puts our payroll in a bind.

 

I just have a hard time seeing us spend on Grandal unless it is a 1-2 year deal.

[Outlander]

Definitely have not given up on Nottingham, a lot has Bern made of Yasmani being 31 next year but Pina will be 33 so would be nice to have a younger catcher to take over the reserve role in 2021.

[adambr2]

Definitely have not given up on Nottingham

 

I'm pretty close. He's still got age on his side, and he's made some defensive progress.

 

But for a guy who was considered a hitting catcher, not a defensive catcher, he hasn't really moved forward offensively at all since we acquired him.

 

It's not a great sign that he couldn't hit in a league where everyone hits. He better turn out to be a pretty good defensive catcher, because his bat will never play at 1st.

 

I think it's likelier than not at this point that he's another Andrew Susac.

[JohnBriggs12]

Definitely have not given up on Nottingham, a lot has Bern made of Yasmani being 31 next year but Pina will be 33 so would be nice to have a younger catcher to take over the reserve role in 2021.

 

With a 26 man roster and two catchers over 30, one of whom spends time at 1B, it makes sense to go with 3 catchers. Speaking of which, why no mention of Steven Vogt returning? He had a really nice year for the Giants and his power plays better in Miller Park. Yes he's 35, but this team got pretty far with 38 year old Eric Kratz in 2018.

 

I see no issue with older catchers in 2020. Feliciano and Henry are both prospects who are getting close. Nottingham's future looks more like as a backup.

[MrTPlush]

There is 100% without a doubt no way the Brewers put 3 catchers on the roster. That is before even considering Grandal is not apart of this team.

 

I don't think it makes any sense to be honest. Not even remotely. Why would we carry a terrible bat on the bench in the odd case all our catchers get knocked out of the game? Anyone want to tell me the last time a 3rd catcher was used in a game outside of September for the Brewers? How about for any team? Is that worth the daily negative value they bring scuffing up the bench with their cleats? The seeds and Gatorade they consume during a game would likely have more value than they ever do in a game over who could be on the roster instead. No, that isn't in blue, it is probably ture.

[tmwiese55]

I've actually thought of Vogt for the other side of the platoon if we lose Grandal. The R/L combo makes sense. Sure seems they love their vets and it was known Vogt was well liked in the clubhouse. How bad was Vogt on D this year? I see a 17% CS%, league avg is 26%. Get this, he started 5 games in LF this year.

 

Agree that they won't have 3 Cs on the roster. No matter how dominant Freitas is

[wntrtxn21]

I've actually thought of Vogt for the other side of the platoon if we lose Grandal. The R/L combo makes sense. Sure seems they love their vets and it was known Vogt was well liked in the clubhouse. How bad was Vogt on D this year? I see a 17% CS%, league avg is 26%. Get this, he started 5 games in LF this year.

 

Agree that they won't have 3 Cs on the roster. No matter how dominant Freitas is

 

The thing that scares me about Vogt is his -27, -13 , -10 defense the last 3 years he played. Weakest arm in all MLB. Not many teams run much now days, but still a big weakness behind the plate. Freitas isn't on the radar for the Crew next year except as an AAA catcher again. He is a prime candidate to be cut from the 40-man roster to make room for the rule 5 guys they are going to keep.

[reillymcshane]

If we can't resign Grandal, I'm guessing the club adds someone like Flowers. He's a very good defender, bat is not good, but it's not terrible. He would team up with Pina for a 50/50 platoon, so neither player gets worn down over the season.

 

It's not a great situation, but it would be fairly inexpensive, it would maintain our good defense behind the plate, and provide okay offensive production. Again, not good offense, just okay.

 

Would it be better to see what Nottingham could do as Pina's backup? Flowers is a nice backup, but if Pina is going to be the starter, I believe Nottingham deserves a look as the part-time catcher.

 

My guess is no. The Brewers are a playoff team. They will value the predictability of a player like Flowers. Nottingham just hasn't been the good. It doesn't mean he won't force the issue, but until he does, the club isn't going to go with a guy like him for 80 games. There's just way too much risk in that.

 

Jacob needs to go to AAA and demonstrate he's really ready to take the next step. And let's face it, the opportunity will likely arise at some point as injuries occur.

 

You might elect to run out Nottingham if the club was staring at a 65 win season - but that's not the case. The team will go with the veteran most of the time. Even if the veteran is mediocre.