Game 6: Lions @ Packers - Monday, October 14th 7:15PM

[homer]

Had Shephard not showed up last night the Packers win by 10. Lions had four chances inside GB territory to go for it on 4th down and makeable yardage. They turtled and went for the FG. They deserved to lose on principle.

[tmwiese55]

Fully agree with the Booger is bad, I posted in my first comments of the day. So glad I don't watch MNF other than Packers and that I mute it for over half the game, it was grating to listen to. At least they got rid of that sideline contraption he was floating around in last year. They have to change things up next year.

 

though I am grateful for how clear he makes it on what type of ball they're using, what type of field they're on, what type players they are, what type of coach they are, and what type of team they are. Sometimes I'm very confused if the word Football isn't used 1/5 words. Someone should watch that game and count how many times he said it, heck of a job being clear for everyone.

[PeaveyFury]

Related question:

 

Growing up, my Dad used to mute the TV and listen to Jim & Max on the radio. I know they changed the TV delay post Janet Jackson nipple-gate, which made this completely out of sync. Anyone have any suggestions for how to do radio (or streaming) and have it lineup ok with the TV feed? It feels like avoiding the TV idiots is more necessary every season, IMO.

[bjkrautk]

Related question:

 

Growing up, my Dad used to mute the TV and listen to Jim & Max on the radio. I know they changed the TV delay post Janet Jackson nipple-gate, which made this completely out of sync. Anyone have any suggestions for how to do radio (or streaming) and have it lineup ok with the TV feed? It feels like avoiding the TV idiots is more necessary every season, IMO.

 

I do it for Badger games, and I did it to hear Ueck during the playoffs the last 2 years.

 

I stream the play-by-play on my phone (to a bluetooth speaker), and pause live TV (I have a TiVo, but most cable services have some similar option) to compensate for the delay. Getting it to sync takes a bit of patience & the occasional fast forward, but it's better than listening to a lot of TV broadcast teams.

[tmwiese55]

Couldn't find exact data for what you're talking in a few seconds of looking. But, on average teams score on 54% of plays from the 1, GB would've had 4 swings at a 54% chance. Obviously that's going to end up in a very high % of success. That's all that he was saying, and in general GB is an above average offense. Sure, there is a non 0 % chance of failure but your chances are as close to lock as you can get in football.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Meanwhile, the top thread on a certain Lions website right now is "Booger appreciation thread"

[young guns]

[sarcasm]Regardless of which side everyone falls on, I'm sure we will all appreciate

next year when there are no controversies because illegal hands to the face is a reviewable penalty.[/sarcasm]

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I had a similar thought and that's exactly why I say kill it all. Because this precedent they've set can't stop.

[tmwiese55]

[sarcasm]Regardless of which side everyone falls on, I'm sure we will all appreciate

next year when there are no controversies because illegal hands to the face is a reviewable penalty.[/sarcasm]

 

I can't wait. If we can see it with multiple zoomed in slow down close up cameras I think it's unbelievable a ref can't see it from 15 yards away in full speed motion while having to make a split second choice, you know and look at other things too. UNACCEPTABLE!!

 

Note, this is basically exactly what Booger said, but without the sarcasm.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

[sarcasm]Regardless of which side everyone falls on, I'm sure we will all appreciate

next year when there are no controversies because illegal hands to the face is a reviewable penalty.[/sarcasm]

 

I can't wait. If we can see it with multiple zoomed in slow down close up cameras I think it's unbelievable a ref can't see it from 15 yards away in full speed motion while having to make a split second choice, you know and look at other things too. UNACCEPTABLE!!

 

Note, this is basically exactly what Booger said, but without the sarcasm.

 

Careful. If you don't come to the conclusion that the Packers won 100% because the refs handed them the game, you'll be accused of having a terrible take.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

You get accused of having a terrible take either way.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You get accused of having a terrible take either way.

 

Yep. I won't deny that the Packers had calls go their way. But the Lions could have, and probably should have stomped on their throats. They didn't, which made those arguably game-changing zebra calls possible.

 

Gray area isn't allowed in hot take land, though.

[FVBrewerFan]

I was at the game, in the corner where the Lions "scored" their TD on 4th and goal from the one. You could not see the ball cross the line. That's not the worst part though. Two officials said no TD. Then the other line ref decided very late to slowly raise his hands to make the TD signal, looked very unsure the whole time.

 

So if it's THAT unclear, how do you award a TD? Easy, you figure replay will clean it up. That's yet another huge problem with replay. If you call a TD on the fled, you better be SURE you saw the ball cross the line. I don't think the line ref did.

 

Also, illegal contact, holding etc. happens all the time in the secondary, granted. But there was a really blatant hold on Graham that took away a TD. Just when he came out of his break, the DB literally hugged him.

 

That's why I'm not buying the narrative the Packers won the game due to the refs. We see the questionable calls that ARE called, not the ones that are missed. And spotlight is really on these calls at the end of the game. They even out. Lions couldn't get the ball in the end zone, let the Packers hang around, and it bit them. That's why they lost.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I was at the game, in the corner where the Lions "scored" their TD on 4th and goal from the one. You could not see the ball cross the line. That's not the worst part though. Two officials said no TD. Then the other line ref decided very late to slowly raise his hands to make the TD signal, looked very unsure the whole time.

 

So if it's THAT unclear, how do you award a TD? Easy, you figure replay will clean it up. That's yet another huge problem with replay. If you call a TD on the fled, you better be SURE you saw the ball cross the line. I don't think the line ref did.

 

Also, illegal contact, holding etc. happens all the time in the secondary, granted. But there was a really blatant hold on Graham that took away a TD. Just when he came out of his break, the DB literally hugged him.

 

That's why I'm not buying the narrative the Packers won the game due to the refs. We see the questionable calls that ARE called, not the ones that are missed. And spotlight is really on these calls at the end of the game. They even out. Lions couldn't get the ball in the end zone, let the Packers hang around, and it bit them. That's why they lost.

 

But that is simply not reality and is just a horrible horrible take. Probably one of the worst takes I've seen on these boards in a while

 

Actually, you are 100% spot on.

[MrTPlush]

FVB I agree with your take, but I always get a chuckle when someone gives their take on a play and say “I was at the game”.

 

I think the 4K slow mo reviews from every angle imaginable on TV was way better than your view at the game.

[nodakfan17]

Nearly everything should be reviewable, but eliminate automatic challenges and limit coaches to a max of 2 challenges per game. Replay should be used to reverse egregious calls (or non-calls) only.

[LouisEly]

Great post. I think the issue is, Booger's looking at something like the hands to the face and screaming about it based on his concept of what the penalty should be, not the idea that there's a valid rulebook-based backing of how the umpire could see it that way. The fact that 'referee expert' John Parry also seemed to struggle with the rulebook last night doesn't make ESPN's production look real great.

 

The reality is, in any game there are calls that can go either way. The issue is that there were like 6 of those last night and all but one went against Detroit.

 

I'll second, great post. I'll add that even before his outrage, I found Booger to be pretty bad. He doesn't seem to know football as well as an announcer should. The play by play guy also seemed very mediocre but not as noticable. So yeah ESPN should probably find better talent. I've literally never seen an announcer that should be unbiased react in such a way. It's one thing if Bill Schroeder calls out an umpire, it's quite another to have this happen on a national broadcast.

Booger also was a DT so he is naturally going to side with the DL and not the OL. If it had been a Packers DL being called I think he would have said the same thing.

[yourout]

Nearly everything should be reviewable, but eliminate automatic challenges and limit coaches to a max of 2 challenges per game. Replay should be used to reverse egregious calls (or non-calls) only.

 

I think coaches should get two challenges with one of them being a super challenge that allows you to challenge anything called or uncalled.

 

If you use the super challenge before the regular challenge you lose the regular challenge as well and even if you win the super challenge you do not gain another challenge.

[FVBrewerFan]

FVB I agree with your take, but I always get a chuckle when someone gives their take on a play and say “I was at the game”.

 

I think the 4K slow mo reviews from every angle imaginable on TV was way better than your view at the game.

 

That wasn't my point. Being at the game was the only way to simultaneously see ALL the officials and how they reacted. Also, my example of the Graham play is something likely not shiwn on TV at all. Obviously my live view of TD/ no TD can't compete with zoom ins, slow mo, multiple camera an GB les, etc.

[CheezWizHed]

FVB I agree with your take, but I always get a chuckle when someone gives their take on a play and say “I was at the game”.

 

I think the 4K slow mo reviews from every angle imaginable on TV was way better than your view at the game.

 

That wasn't my point. Being at the game was the only way to simultaneously see ALL the officials and how they reacted. Also, my example of the Graham play is something likely not shiwn on TV at all. Obviously my live view of TD/ no TD can't compete with zoom ins, slow mo, multiple camera an GB les, etc.

 

Actually, from the TV view, I thought the TD call was odd. They were obviously disagreeing and no one spoke to each other to confirm. One was spotting the ball short, one was motioning 1st down Packers, one was calling it a TD...

[rickh150]

FVB I agree with your take, but I always get a chuckle when someone gives their take on a play and say “I was at the game”.

 

I think the 4K slow mo reviews from every angle imaginable on TV was way better than your view at the game.

 

That wasn't my point. Being at the game was the only way to simultaneously see ALL the officials and how they reacted. Also, my example of the Graham play is something likely not shiwn on TV at all. Obviously my live view of TD/ no TD can't compete with zoom ins, slow mo, multiple camera an GB les, etc.

 

Actually, from the TV view, I thought the TD call was odd. They were obviously disagreeing and no one spoke to each other to confirm. One was spotting the ball short, one was motioning 1st down Packers, one was calling it a TD...

 

 

The crazy thing is that tv still cannot tell if a ball went over a line. With all technology out there, this can't be solved?

 

But, yeah.... the refs didn't talk and the ref with his hands up usually wins.... same as the Fail Mary game.

[MrTPlush]

Officials are strange these days. I remember the disagreement on the fail mary being a huge deal...that’s the norm these days and sometimes one official will just basically say “F You, my call is right.”. Now I usually see that done on plays with auto review with the overpowering call so that may be why officials will just let one guys call win without much conversation.

 

I don’t get people hating on auto reviews. Auto reviews are done on plays that take awhile even pretending no review happens. They are amazing at initiating those reviews quickly so by the time they are ready to kick an extra point or start the possession change it is confirmed etc. I love that rule a lot. I also love officials let questionable fumbles play out just in case now.

[rickh150]

Nearly everything should be reviewable, but eliminate automatic challenges and limit coaches to a max of 2 challenges per game. Replay should be used to reverse egregious calls (or non-calls) only.

 

How about all challenges come from another official group of three at the game. Do this for the entire game, and allow coaches to throw their flags in the 4th quarter too.

[adambr2]

Nearly everything should be reviewable, but eliminate automatic challenges and limit coaches to a max of 2 challenges per game. Replay should be used to reverse egregious calls (or non-calls) only.

 

And this would have changed zero calls from last night. Neither hands to the face was egregious, in fact the first one was correct. The roughing call with Allison wasn't remotely egregious -- remember what Matthews got flagged for early last season?

The PI non call was so "egregious" that it wasn't even deemed worthy of a challenge by Petricia.

 

None of those 4 plays would have been overturned on review. I don't say that to pick on you at all, I'm just pointing out that for all the uproar over last night, there isn't a single play that anyone can watch, point to, and say, "Wow, see? That was bad. That would be reversed."

 

It all started with Booger using his platform to get the entire nation riled up and like people are these days, most are happy to just buy right in without any real deeper analysis than that.

[FVBrewerFan]

One challenge for the entire game per team. You can "buy" one more if you were right on your challenge. If you're wrong, you lose all time outs for the game. That will eliminate all the BS until the end of the game, unless there's a really blatant call earlier. Which......was supposed to be the whole purpose of replay ro begin with.