Game 6: Lions @ Packers - Monday, October 14th 7:15PM

[yourout]

After the Fail Mary and Matthews roughing call against the Vikings literally cost the Packers two games, I really don't care if people call me a homer for shrugging off those bad calls. Karma, suckas.

 

Speaking of Karma I think Jones got to meet her last night after his showboating in Dallas.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

After the Fail Mary and Matthews roughing call against the Vikings literally cost the Packers two games, I really don't care if people call me a homer for shrugging off those bad calls. Karma, suckas.

 

Shrugging off a bad call is one thing. Pretending the call was good or justifying it with freeze frames is another. I advocate shrugging it off. The crying clock when a call goes the wrong way should last until about 7 a.m. the next morning.

 

Personally, I find the "But they still had chances to win" schtick pretty tired. That's stuff coaches tell their teams because it's a healthier outlook to have. In spite of 58 second-half yards the Lions had that thing all but locked up. The Packers also threw a doink pick at the goal line. Had they lost like they should have I would have pointed to that and said they deserved it.

 

But like I said, the Packers are 5-1 via gift, so I'm glad but I'll own that gift. And while we're shrugging stuff off, Jerry Rice's '98 fumble still ticks me off more than any other blown call.

[PeaveyFury]

They were petty calls that the offensive lineman flopped for. Props to the Packers on doing their homework to make the crappy refs make dumb calls.

 

By rule/textbook definition I think all three of the instances were flags (hands to face, hands to face, and helmet to helmet)...

 

Valid calls by rule that the "offensive lineman flopped for?" Come on, man. That's a really bad hot take.

 

I dunno, seems pretty valid to me.

 

And this is doubling-down on a really bad hot take. Implying that Bahk is trying to draw that call is absurd. He's putting his head back like any human being would when someone has their hand in your grill.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

After the Fail Mary and Matthews roughing call against the Vikings literally cost the Packers two games, I really don't care if people call me a homer for shrugging off those bad calls. Karma, suckas.

 

Shrugging off a bad call is one thing. Pretending the call was good or justifying it with freeze frames is another. I advocate shrugging it off. The crying clock when a call goes the wrong way should last until about 7 a.m. the next morning.

 

Personally, I find the "But they still had chances to win" schtick pretty tired. That's stuff coaches tell their teams because it's a healthier outlook to have. In spite of 58 second-half yards the Lions had that thing all but locked up. The Packers also threw a doink pick at the goal line. Had they lost like they should have I would have pointed to that and said they deserved it.

 

But like I said, the Packers are 5-1 via gift, so I'm glad but I'll own that gift. And while we're shrugging stuff off, Jerry Rice's '98 fumble still ticks me off more than any other blown call.

 

I guess all I'm trying to say is that the Lions had ample opportunity to put the Packers away, and couldn't do it. The Packers made every attempt to hand it to the Lions, and the Lions couldn't finish. The Lions instead left the door open a crack, and admittedly with the aid of some highly questionable calls, the Packers got that door open just enough to sneak through and steal one.

 

We can analyze and overanalyze all we want. My personal opinion is that while the refs certainly hurt the Lions' chances last night on several occasions, the Lions also didn't take advantage of their quick start that had the Packers on the ropes. I don't see how that is a horrible take.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't know you're getting that worked up over the suggestion that Bhaktiari might sell a penalty. It's totally plausible that the Packers noticed him going high on tape when he pass rushes, and either let the officials know to watch for it, let their tackles know to sell it, or both. That kind of thing is commonplace in NFL film rooms. It's far from absurd, and players in every league sell penalties all the same. I wouldn't even call it dirty or sketchy, it's part of the game.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't know you're getting that worked up over the suggestion that Bhaktiari might sell a penalty. It's totally plausible that the Packers noticed him going high on tape when he pass rushes, and either let the officials know to watch for it, let their tackles know to sell it, or both. That kind of thing is commonplace in NFL film rooms. It's far from absurd, and players in every league sell penalties all the same. I wouldn't even call it dirty or sketchy, it's part of the game.

 

I think this is pretty accurate. Is what Flowers did, by the letter of the law, a penalty? Maybe ... probably. Did Bahk "sell" it to take the "maybe" out of the equation in the official's eyes? You'll never get him to admit it, but it is certainly plausible. And yes, that type of thing absolutely is commonplace.

[wallus]

Football games have so much down time in between plays so why do all of these flags have to be thrown right away? Let them use their million cameras and people upstairs to determine penalties. Buzz down to the refs on the field and then go to the next play.

[MrTPlush]

And this is doubling-down on a really bad hot take. Implying that Bahk is trying to draw that call is absurd. He's putting his head back like any human being would when someone has their hand in your grill.

 

I am not sure you understand the definition of a 'hot take' or what a person's 'grill' is.

 

It isn't a hot take nor was his hand in his grill.

 

But much like I can, you can have your opinion.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Bhak is playing LT he is not getting mugged in an alley. If that's his genuine reaction to a hand on his shoulder pad he would not be the best LT in the NFL. I could buy the coincidence if he drew the flag once, but he is snapping back on the 2nd one like Tyson hit him with an uppercut. Fine with it, good play on his part, whatever.

[PeaveyFury]

And this is doubling-down on a really bad hot take. Implying that Bahk is trying to draw that call is absurd. He's putting his head back like any human being would when someone has their hand in your grill.

 

I am not sure you understand the definition of a 'hot take' or what a person's 'grill' is.

 

It isn't a hot take nor was his hand in his grill.

 

But much like I can, you can have your opinion.

 

I'll stand by my calling your post a hot take.... feel free to google the definition yourself if you'd like to confirm.

 

And grill is probably liberal use on my part, so I'll modify that to "hand in his head or neck area."

[pacopete4]

It is like no one has ever watched an NFL game before. Crap calls are just the norm....crap rules are the norm...it is a crap product. People can screenshot the plays all they want, but I don't really care to see the Lions player tickling his neck beard. They were petty calls that the offensive lineman flopped for. Props to the Packers on doing their homework to make the crappy refs make dumb calls.

 

By rule/textbook definition I think all three of the instances were flags (hands to face, hands to face, and helmet to helmet)...but all were petty flags that really just don't need to effect the game. Packers fans will brush these off like nothing, but if it was the other way around people would be crying endlessly about them. Personally I just don't care because this is typical these days. It really doesn't shock me. Watch the comical disaster of the PI challenge in every game, these things shouldn't shock anyone at this point.

 

Did the refs hand us the game, I mean, about as close as you can get. Lions were about to get the ball back with plenty of time to get a field goal to win it. Maybe they do, maybe they don't...that play alone though swung the odds dramatically essentially ending the game.

 

If it wasn't a Monday Night game, the uproar would have been a lot quieter. Nothing else for people or media to talk about. These types of (bad) calls happen all the time in the NFL. It is the norm.

[tmwiese55]

I think it's completely normal that when a 300 pound man is running full speed at me, pushes me back and has hand basically right at my chin for his head to be pushed back. He's off balance, guys hand is right under his chin, pushing/pulling his shoulder pads which might slide up and hit his helmet, basically everything is pushing him back, head could go too. This isn't at all like when an NBA player gets hit on the arm and flails his head back.

 

Bottom line, some borderline calls go your way. Some don't. some games might weight differently one way or the other. Some early calls in a game might go against you but late ones for you, but late ones get the attention. Grand scheme of things they balance out over the long haul. Last night some borderline ones went the packers way late. I'll take it and remember it in a few weeks when they don't and not get too worked up either week, it's part of the game. Just like I didn't when they went against GB vs Philly.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The MNF thing is dead on. That happens on a noon game and no one outside DET cares.

[PeaveyFury]

I think it's completely normal that when a 300 pound man is running full speed at me, pushes me back and has hand basically right at my chin for his head to be pushed back. He's off balance, guys hand is right under his chin, pushing/pulling his shoulder pads which might slide up and hit his helmet, basically everything is pushing him back, head could go too. This isn't at all like when an NBA player gets hit on the arm and flails his head back.

 

Bottom line, some borderline calls go your way. Some don't. some games might weight differently one way or the other. Some early calls in a game might go against you but late ones for you, but late ones get the attention. Grand scheme of things they balance out over the long haul. Last night some borderline ones went the packers way. I'll take it and remember it in a few weeks when they don't and not get too worked up either week, it's part of the game. Just like I didn't when they went against GB vs Philly.

 

This.

 

I think the issue overall is, there are some things that have literally always been a gray area- there's offensive holding on most plays, there's illegal defensive contact on a lot of pass plays, etc. The stuff last night in a couple of ways has added subjectivity to some things that used to be fairly cut-and-dried, and the new way they're handling this the past couple of years has made it a pervasive problem throughout the league and on many, many different types of penalties.

 

Here's the actual defensive hands to the face rule, directly from the rule book: It is a foul if a defensive player thrusts his hands or arms forward above

the frame of an opponent to forcibly contact him on the neck, face, or head.

 

Did that happen last night to the letter of that rule? Yep. Historically, is that called that way? Nope. And if it had been called once, it certainly wouldn't have happened twice. So why the difference? That seems to be the key here. You've had A LOT of long-time referees that were acceptably good at their jobs retire over the past 3-5 seasons, and these new guys just seem bad at it.

[adambr2]

Honestly, even if you concede that the calls could have gone either way, there were really no egregiously bad (See Mary, Fail) calls last night, including the hands to the face, including the hit on Allison, including the line judge overruling and giving a TD on 4th and goal to the Lions in the first. All were close.

 

Really, the main culprit for the outrage yesterday and today is Booger McFarland. I very, very rarely complain about commentators, but he is the worst I've ever seen. He was absolutely losing his mind last night on any close call that didn't go the Lions' way. When you're doing that in front of a national TV audience, you're stoking the flames. Of COURSE people are going to be reacting on Twitter when the color commentator is acting like it's the worst call he's ever seen. Of course by the time the Lions speak to the media the flames have already been stoked and knowing that, they're going to stoke it further.

 

I'll bet anything that if McFarland reacts on a level of "I'm not sure" or "It was close" and then leaves it at that, very little is made of the officiating after the game. If McFarland is flipping out about the line judge giving Johnson the controversial TD, they're talking about that.

 

It was absolute unprofessionalism by McFarland and again he's 99% responsible for the hot takes and pitchforks after the game. These calls were questionable. They weren't egregious. I've seen games decided in the 4th by much worse calls where even less was made of the officiating after the game, because the commentators decided not to die on the hill of how bad the call was and instead move on with their job.

[PeaveyFury]

Honestly, even if you concede that the calls could have gone either way, there were really no egregiously bad (See Mary, Fail) calls last night, including the hands to the face, including the hit on Allison, including the line judge overruling and giving a TD on 4th and goal to the Lions in the first. All were close.

 

Really, the main culprit for the outrage yesterday and today is Booger McFarland. I very, very rarely complain about commentators, but he is the worst I've ever seen. He was absolutely losing his mind last night on any close call that didn't go the Lions' way. When you're doing that in front of a national TV audience, you're stoking the flames. Of COURSE people are going to be reacting on Twitter when the color commentator is acting like it's the worst call he's ever seen. Of course by the time the Lions speak to the media the flames have already been stoked and knowing that, they're going to stoke it further.

 

I'll bet anything that if McFarland reacts on a level of "I'm not sure" or "It was close" and then leaves it at that, very little is made of the officiating after the game. If McFarland is flipping out about the line judge giving Johnson the controversial TD, they're talking about that.

 

It was absolute unprofessionalism by McFarland and again he's 99% responsible for the hot takes and pitchforks after the game. These calls were questionable. They weren't egregious. I've seen games decided in the 4th by much worse calls where even less was made of the officiating after the game, because the commentators decided not to die on the hill of how bad the call was and instead move on with their job.

 

Great post. I think the issue is, Booger's looking at something like the hands to the face and screaming about it based on his concept of what the penalty should be, not the idea that there's a valid rulebook-based backing of how the umpire could see it that way. The fact that 'referee expert' John Parry also seemed to struggle with the rulebook last night doesn't make ESPN's production look real great.

 

The reality is, in any game there are calls that can go either way. The issue is that there were like 6 of those last night and all but one went against Detroit.

[homer]

After the Fail Mary and Matthews roughing call against the Vikings literally cost the Packers two games, I really don't care if people call me a homer for shrugging off those bad calls. Karma, suckas.

 

Shrugging off a bad call is one thing. Pretending the call was good or justifying it with freeze frames is another. I advocate shrugging it off. The crying clock when a call goes the wrong way should last until about 7 a.m. the next morning.

 

Personally, I find the "But they still had chances to win" schtick pretty tired. That's stuff coaches tell their teams because it's a healthier outlook to have. In spite of 58 second-half yards the Lions had that thing all but locked up. The Packers also threw a doink pick at the goal line. Had they lost like they should have I would have pointed to that and said they deserved it.

 

But like I said, the Packers are 5-1 via gift, so I'm glad but I'll own that gift. And while we're shrugging stuff off, Jerry Rice's '98 fumble still ticks me off more than any other blown call.

 

 

Those two calls last night didn't gift the Packers a win. They certainly helped but we have no idea how things would have turned out had they not been called. We do in the example of the Fail Mary and Matthews roughing call (and the Rice fumble).

[KeithStone53151]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs, but if that first hands to face penalty isn't called it's very, very hard for me to see the Packers winning that game.

 

I honestly cannot stand the justification that the Lions missed opportunities and blew the game themselves. Both these teams are really good, one or two bad calls can and did swing the outcome. No different than in baseball, the ump incorrectly calling a 2-1 pitch can definitely swing the outcome of the atbat and even the game. To not blame the officiating here...that's the type of thing the Lions coach will tell his players to get them not to dwell on it and try harder next time...but it's simply not reality and is just a horrible horrible take. Probably one of the worst takes I've seen on these boards in a while...and I just got done thoroughly reading through clancy's offseason plan for the brewers.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs, but if that first hands to face penalty isn't called it's very, very hard for me to see the Packers winning that game.

 

I honestly cannot stand the justification that the Lions missed opportunities and blew the game themselves. Both these teams are really good, one or two bad calls can and did swing the outcome. No different than in baseball, the ump incorrectly calling a 2-1 pitch can definitely swing the outcome of the atbat and even the game. To not blame the officiating here...that's the type of thing the Lions coach will tell his players to get them not to dwell on it and try harder next time...but it's simply not reality and is just a horrible horrible take. Probably one of the worst takes I've seen on these boards in a while...and I just got done thoroughly reading through clancy's offseason plan for the brewers.

 

This was condescending the first time you posted it. It's still condescending.

[KeithStone53151]

Great post. I think the issue is, Booger's looking at something like the hands to the face and screaming about it based on his concept of what the penalty should be, not the idea that there's a valid rulebook-based backing of how the umpire could see it that way. The fact that 'referee expert' John Parry also seemed to struggle with the rulebook last night doesn't make ESPN's production look real great.

 

The reality is, in any game there are calls that can go either way. The issue is that there were like 6 of those last night and all but one went against Detroit.

 

I'll second, great post. I'll add that even before his outrage, I found Booger to be pretty bad. He doesn't seem to know football as well as an announcer should. The play by play guy also seemed very mediocre but not as noticable. So yeah ESPN should probably find better talent. I've literally never seen an announcer that should be unbiased react in such a way. It's one thing if Bill Schroeder calls out an umpire, it's quite another to have this happen on a national broadcast.

[KeithStone53151]

This was condescending the first time you posted it. It's still condescending.

 

I didn't think it actually posted earlier. The website was acting funky and I had to step away. I'm guessing it got taken down because people's opinions can't be criticized, or something.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm guessing it got taken down because people's opinions can't be criticized, or something.

 

Nope, you're the proud owner of post 371 and 393.

[KeithStone53151]

I'm guessing it got taken down because people's opinions can't be criticized, or something.

 

Nope, you're the proud owner of post 371 and 393.

 

I'd delete one if I could because obviously two are pointless, for whatever reason delete isn't an option. I clicked post earlier and the browser was spinning, trying to work. Came back an hour and a half later and it was still spinning so I hit refresh. I am a bit curious if it's just me that the site occasionally will get stuck for like that.

[HiAndTight]

Honestly, even if you concede that the calls could have gone either way, there were really no egregiously bad (See Mary, Fail) calls last night, including the hands to the face, including the hit on Allison, including the line judge overruling and giving a TD on 4th and goal to the Lions in the first. All were close.

 

Really, the main culprit for the outrage yesterday and today is Booger McFarland. I very, very rarely complain about commentators, but he is the worst I've ever seen. He was absolutely losing his mind last night on any close call that didn't go the Lions' way. When you're doing that in front of a national TV audience, you're stoking the flames. Of COURSE people are going to be reacting on Twitter when the color commentator is acting like it's the worst call he's ever seen. Of course by the time the Lions speak to the media the flames have already been stoked and knowing that, they're going to stoke it further.

 

I'll bet anything that if McFarland reacts on a level of "I'm not sure" or "It was close" and then leaves it at that, very little is made of the officiating after the game. If McFarland is flipping out about the line judge giving Johnson the controversial TD, they're talking about that.

 

It was absolute unprofessionalism by McFarland and again he's 99% responsible for the hot takes and pitchforks after the game. These calls were questionable. They weren't egregious. I've seen games decided in the 4th by much worse calls where even less was made of the officiating after the game, because the commentators decided not to die on the hill of how bad the call was and instead move on with their job.

 

 

Yes...all of this. A grown-ass man who still calls himself "Booger," is annoying enough, but not all the whining about these calls?

 

I'd be really annoyed if I was Detroit today, zero question about it, but that clown McFarland just kept whining and now they're acting like it's different than any other game. Is this any different than the Eagles game?

 

 

As I said, only Dennis Miller and his what can best be described as rambling about 50-year-old pop culture references has been worse than "Booger." This year. He's like a punch drunk caricature from the Simsons.

[HiAndTight]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs, but if that first hands to face penalty isn't called it's very, very hard for me to see the Packers winning that game.

 

I honestly cannot stand the justification that the Lions missed opportunities and blew the game themselves. Both these teams are really good, one or two bad calls can and did swing the outcome. No different than in baseball, the ump incorrectly calling a 2-1 pitch can definitely swing the outcome of the atbat and even the game. To not blame the officiating here...that's the type of thing the Lions coach will tell his players to get them not to dwell on it and try harder next time...but it's simply not reality and is just a horrible horrible take. Probably one of the worst takes I've seen on these boards in a while...and I just got done thoroughly reading through clancy's offseason plan for the brewers.

 

This was condescending the first time you posted it. It's still condescending.

 

 

Yeah, but one part of it is also really funny.