Game 6: Lions @ Packers - Monday, October 14th 7:15PM

[young guns]

Found it.

To be a foul, we basically need some forceful contact that's prolonged to the head and neck area of the defender, So, in his mind he had pinned him back, it was prolonged, and that's what created the foul.

 

I know on the second one flowers had his hand grabbing the collar of bahks jersey and his knuckles were under the facemask and bahks head was pushed back for a long time. Hard to fault them for that penalty since it seems exactly as described as a foul. I haven't found a good look at the first one to see if its similar and ran out of time to look.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I find the college football 25 yard OT thing lame. I know I'm in the minority but never liked it.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I forget that the NFL makes referees available to the media pool after the game, which is honestly about the only thing the NFL does better than other leagues at anything regarding officiating. After hearing Clete Blakeman's insistance regarding the helmet-to-helmet penalty, I went and actually looked up the rule:

 

There are two 'helmet-to-helmet rules; one for intentional, unimpeded contact to the head area, which is an ejectionable offense, and an 'unnecessary roughness' version where intent doesn't matter, it's just 'forceable contact to the head area'. The Detroit DB was called for the latter, which does seem to fit the letter of the rule. You can debate whether a DB going for the ball should be a mitigating circumstance, but that appears to only be part of the college rule, not the NFL.

 

In short, I think that penalty was correctly interpreted, just IMO.

 

That was my entire argument during the game. Intent didn't matter it was a blow to the helmet. That it wasn't intentional was the reason he wasn't ejected

[pacopete4]

The issue I have, and always have, is that with almost ALL THINGS FOOTBALL, the NCAA gets it right, while the NFL manages to screw it up. The college review system has been better since day 1, and is unobtrusive and typically results in an accurate call being made. The college OT is better. The targeting rules are better. The NFL just can't get it right, while a different league has.

 

They just need to swallow their pride on replay, scrap the garbage system that they have, and adopt the better system that already exists.

 

Yeah, I don't understand how the NCAA can be so much better at this than the NFL. I mean, look at what is successful at the college ranks and adapt.

[tmwiese55]

All the talk is going to be on the hands to face penalties. While I agree they were incorrect. First, I'd say you can totally see how the refs would think it was without the benefit of slow mo camera, Booger's screaming doesn't change the fact they have to see this in a split second from 15 yards away with no replay. Second, by the letter of the law that's probably technically defensive holding then if not hands to the face, if we're gonna get real anal on things.

 

Another thing that will be missed while everyone obsesses on that is that Det was gifted a free TD earlier in the game when every ref at the LOS and close to the play called down and a guy late comes running in and somehow overrides all of them. My opinion is that he was likely down short, but whichever way that was called was going to stand and should not have been overturned. How3-4 guys call down who were closer get overridden by a guy way on the bottom after the play I have no idea.

 

The Pack TD you guys are analyzing here IMO was ruled that way because he didn't have full possessioni until in the end zone. I thought that was fairly clear and not sure how you got pages of arguing about it.

 

Lastly, I have no idea how Booger has that job. I give credit for his energy, and I can tell he has put in the prep work beforehand. But his voice is grating, and he made several absolutely terrible points or babbles that made no sense. Most important thing though is that he's like the Stephen A of game announcing, like why does everything have to said in a shouting manner. Most laughable thing to me was his rant about how Det coaches with the NE ties so they game plan week to week, they analyze other teams strengths and weaknesses and then make a gameplan accordingly. All other coaches watching had to be like huh, wonder why we never thought of that. Glad I never watch MNF besides the Packers and that I put it on silent for over half the game.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I thought he was short on that touchdown, but also thought he pretty clearly scored on 3rd down after the replay.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Split screen of the two plays that were called. Rule states that not only is it hands to the face, but the neck area as well. Did Bahk sell it? Maybe. But by the letter of the law, they called it correct. I have no doubt that the Packers noted that Flowers has a habit of getting his hands high when studying film, and asked that the refs keep an eye on it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Lol, we need to stop. Those flags were atrocious. Let's be the realists that own it instead of freeze framing a guys gloves brushing Bak's jawline. There is pretty much nothing you can tell from that freeze frame and I highly doubt THAT is what the official saw. This is the same crap Seahawks fans did in '12. Took one frame that looked borderline and went "Yep, the right call!" The Oscar goes to David Bahktiari. Packers get a break, move on.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Lol, we need to stop. Those flags were atrocious. Let's be the realists that own it instead of freeze framing a guys gloves brushing Bak's jawline. There is pretty much nothing you can tell from that freeze frame and I highly doubt THAT is what the official saw. This is the same crap Seahawks fans did in '12. Took one frame that looked borderline and went "Yep, the right call!" The Oscar goes to David Bahktiari. Packers get a break, move on.

 

Its more an answer to those people are are trying to say the refs handed the Packers the game. No, they didn't. The refs call it like they see it on the field. Were some of the calls borderline bad? Yep, probably. But the refs didn't lose the game for the Lions. The Lions could have stomped the throat of the Packers in the first quarter, but instead settled for field goals. They could have came out in the second half more aggressively, but instead gained 58 yards the whole half. Anyone trying to justify that the refs handed that game to the Packers is probably off base. The Lions did a remarkable job of handing that game to the Packers. Because the Lions just are not a very good team.

[MrTPlush]

It is like no one has ever watched an NFL game before. Crap calls are just the norm....crap rules are the norm...it is a crap product. People can screenshot the plays all they want, but I don't really care to see the Lions player tickling his neck beard. They were petty calls that the offensive lineman flopped for. Props to the Packers on doing their homework to make the crappy refs make dumb calls.

 

By rule/textbook definition I think all three of the instances were flags (hands to face, hands to face, and helmet to helmet)...but all were petty flags that really just don't need to effect the game. Packers fans will brush these off like nothing, but if it was the other way around people would be crying endlessly about them. Personally I just don't care because this is typical these days. It really doesn't shock me. Watch the comical disaster of the PI challenge in every game, these things shouldn't shock anyone at this point.

 

Did the refs hand us the game, I mean, about as close as you can get. Lions were about to get the ball back with plenty of time to get a field goal to win it. Maybe they do, maybe they don't...that play alone though swung the odds dramatically essentially ending the game.

[PeaveyFury]

Lol, we need to stop. Those flags were atrocious. Let's be the realists that own it instead of freeze framing a guys gloves brushing Bak's jawline. There is pretty much nothing you can tell from that freeze frame and I highly doubt THAT is what the official saw. This is the same crap Seahawks fans did in '12. Took one frame that looked borderline and went "Yep, the right call!" The Oscar goes to David Bahktiari. Packers get a break, move on.

 

I think the point is, and correctly so, that to the letter of the law, there is a way you can look at that play and say that you can see why the umpire thought it a legit call. Doesn't mean it's the right call, doesn't mean it should have been called that way, doesn't mean that I wouldn't be super mad if that went against Green Bay instead of the Lions, but the take away is that all teams get robbed a few times a year on stuff that is very subjective.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs, but if that first hands to face penalty isn't called it's very, very hard for me to see the Packers winning that game. Maybe the Lions handed that game to the Packers. But the Packers handed it right back and the officials said no, no, we insist. It was horribly officiated. Not the first time, not the last time, and the Packers have been on the wrong end more than once. The people convinced the league has some pro-Packers, pro-Patrtiots conspiracy going make me cringe, but the zebras screwed Detroit last night. We can pick apart every mistake they made but GB fans would be absolutely livid wearing the other shoe this morning. Because it has happened and they are livid.

[PeaveyFury]

They were petty calls that the offensive lineman flopped for. Props to the Packers on doing their homework to make the crappy refs make dumb calls.

 

By rule/textbook definition I think all three of the instances were flags (hands to face, hands to face, and helmet to helmet)...

 

Valid calls by rule that the "offensive lineman flopped for?" Come on, man. That's a really bad hot take.

[Outlander]

I find the college football 25 yard OT thing lame. I know I'm in the minority but never liked it.

No I am with you, college OT is horrible. The NFL for its faults is still played like a regular game. Placing the ball at the opponents 25 and making it an arena football game is bad.

[tmwiese55]

Lol, we need to stop. Those flags were atrocious. Let's be the realists that own it instead of freeze framing a guys gloves brushing Bak's jawline. There is pretty much nothing you can tell from that freeze frame and I highly doubt THAT is what the official saw. This is the same crap Seahawks fans did in '12. Took one frame that looked borderline and went "Yep, the right call!" The Oscar goes to David Bahktiari. Packers get a break, move on.

 

Its more an answer to those people are are trying to say the refs handed the Packers the game. No, they didn't. The refs call it like they see it on the field. Were some of the calls borderline bad? Yep, probably. But the refs didn't lose the game for the Lions. The Lions could have stomped the throat of the Packers in the first quarter, but instead settled for field goals. They could have came out in the second half more aggressively, but instead gained 58 yards the whole half. Anyone trying to justify that the refs handed that game to the Packers is probably off base. The Lions did a remarkable job of handing that game to the Packers. Because the Lions just are not a very good team.

 

especially the last one. They were kicking the winning FG anyway. It cost Det a chance to go about 50 yards in like a minute with no timeouts.

 

But the obsession on these while ignoring the free 7 pts Det got earlier somewhat reminds me of how everyone freaked out on the blown PI in the Rams/Saints game last year but ignored the botched call that helped the Saints a few possessions earlier. Top of my head, I think it made Rams kick FG instead of getting first and goal from really close and a likely TD. I don't recall exactly what it was. I overall agree that obsessing on all this is too much, it happens. These calls are tough to make split second heat of the moment, some go your way some don't. Packers have certainly had their share go against them, like in the Eagles game, this week these calls late went their way. Take it and go on.

 

Also, I don't think Bahk is flopping. He was pushed back, it was just maybe not done the way the refs thought it was done

[KeithStone53151]

Lol, we need to stop. Those flags were atrocious. Let's be the realists that own it instead of freeze framing a guys gloves brushing Bak's jawline. There is pretty much nothing you can tell from that freeze frame and I highly doubt THAT is what the official saw. This is the same crap Seahawks fans did in '12. Took one frame that looked borderline and went "Yep, the right call!" The Oscar goes to David Bahktiari. Packers get a break, move on.

 

This is where I'm at with those calls. I noticed exactly this live when I was looking for justification...his hand was up there for a split second at most. Similar to if a tackler brushes his hand across a ball carriers facemask...by the letter of the law it's a penalty but really shouldn't be called. If they called every little nitpicky thing, there'd be a flag every play and that's no fun. And that was only one of the two bad hands to the face penalties. The other one there was nothing. The only way we have any justification is if it's illegal to grab the inside of a guys shoulder pad. I'm no rule expert, but I highly doubt doing so is a penalty. We got lucky, I would be absolutely livid if I was a Lions fan right now. The Packers have 3 legit wins and 2 ref aided wins this year, facts are 5-1 though.

 

The Lazard catch, that pylon cam shows his knee hit at the half yardline or whatever...but I wasn't 100% sure he had control of the ball until he was in the end zone. It looked like he bobbled it a bit after he hit the ground...but the ball never hit the ground so it's whatever. I don't see any way that was getting overturned...and that's not the story of the game anyway. It's those 2 "penalties".

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They were petty calls that the offensive lineman flopped for. Props to the Packers on doing their homework to make the crappy refs make dumb calls.

 

By rule/textbook definition I think all three of the instances were flags (hands to face, hands to face, and helmet to helmet)...

 

Valid calls by rule that the "offensive lineman flopped for?" Come on, man. That's a really bad hot take.

 

I dunno, seems pretty valid to me. They can call marshmallow stuff like that on every play if they want. I'm sure hands wind up near the face on basically every snap. You can nitpick holding too. That's why the officials have so much power. If they go looking for stuff they can call it. They're remarkably inconsistent, which is why fans hate them so much.

 

I've never thought the NFL has team-driven conspiracies, however I do think they have some kind of league directive to shift how they call things to tighten games for TV. You see it week in and week out. One team is within striking distance and suddenly everything is pass interference. Like they flag it back into a competitive game and then let the players sort it out. They were doing it last week for Dallas.

 

I think in practice in more subtle than I'm making it sound, but it sure as hell feels like they shift their use of flags depending on how the game is going.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs, but if that first hands to face penalty isn't called it's very, very hard for me to see the Packers winning that game. Maybe the Lions handed that game to the Packers. But the Packers handed it right back and the officials said no, no, we insist. It was horribly officiated. Not the first time, not the last time, and the Packers have been on the wrong end more than once. The people convinced the league has some pro-Packers, pro-Patrtiots conspiracy going make me cringe, but the zebras screwed Detroit last night. We can pick apart every mistake they made but GB fans would be absolutely livid wearing the other shoe this morning. Because it has happened and they are livid.

 

I don't remember many Seahawk fans being apologetic after the Fail Mary game. NFL officiating is what it is. Crappy.

 

I don't think Packer fans should feel bad, guilty, or feel the need to justify the win as a gift. Every team gets good and bad calls. Heck, the Packers only loss on the year was arguably turned because a pretty obvious PI that wasn't called. And yeah, if the shoe was on the other foot, Packer nation would be livid this morning. And it will come around again on them at some point, likely this year. If this team continues to play close one-score games, they are eventually going to end up on the short end of a key bad call that costs them a game.

[tmwiese55]

Lol, we need to stop. Those flags were atrocious. Let's be the realists that own it instead of freeze framing a guys gloves brushing Bak's jawline. There is pretty much nothing you can tell from that freeze frame and I highly doubt THAT is what the official saw. This is the same crap Seahawks fans did in '12. Took one frame that looked borderline and went "Yep, the right call!" The Oscar goes to David Bahktiari. Packers get a break, move on.

 

This is where I'm at with those calls. I noticed exactly this live when I was looking for justification...his hand was up there for a split second at most. Similar to if a tackler brushes his hand across a ball carriers facemask...by the letter of the law it's a penalty but really shouldn't be called. If they called every little nitpicky thing, there'd be a flag every play and that's no fun. And that was only one of the two bad hands to the face penalties. The other one there was nothing. The only way we have any justification is if it's illegal to grab the inside of a guys shoulder pad. I'm no rule expert, but I highly doubt doing so is a penalty. We got lucky, I would be absolutely livid if I was a Lions fan right now. The Packers have 3 legit wins and 2 ref aided wins this year, facts are 5-1 though.

 

The Lazard catch, that pylon cam shows his knee hit at the half yardline or whatever...but I wasn't 100% sure he had control of the ball until he was in the end zone. It looked like he bobbled it a bit after he hit the ground...but the ball never hit the ground so it's whatever. I don't see any way that was getting overturned...and that's not the story of the game anyway. It's those 2 "penalties".

 

I'd be near positive what he did there is defensive holding by the letter of the law. Usually only gets called if it's impeding an OL from like sliding off and picking up a stunt or another guy, but the act is the same thing. And I'd say it's justified to call on a play like this as it is gaining the DL an advantage, if he doesn't grab and hold then his hand would slide up into the face and be a penalty, doing it this way gives him control of the OLs movement, which is exactly what the rule is trying to prevent

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The Packers have 3 legit wins and 2 ref aided wins this year, facts are 5-1 though.

 

There's a strong argument that the Eagles loss was ref-aided as well. Two pretty obvious non-called defensive PIs that would have been game changing. Refs giveth, ref taketh away. No need to apologize for that.

[KeithStone53151]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs, but if that first hands to face penalty isn't called it's very, very hard for me to see the Packers winning that game.

 

I honestly cannot stand the justification that the Lions missed opportunities and blew the game themselves. Both these teams are really good, one or two bad calls can and did swing the outcome. No different than in baseball, the ump incorrectly calling a 2-1 pitch can definitely swing the outcome of the atbat and even the game. To not blame the officiating here...that's the type of thing the Lions coach will tell his players to get them not to dwell on it and try harder next time...but it's simply not reality and is just a horrible horrible take. Probably one of the worst takes I've seen on these boards in a while...and I just got done thoroughly reading through clancy's offseason plan for the brewers.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs, but if that first hands to face penalty isn't called it's very, very hard for me to see the Packers winning that game.

 

I honestly cannot stand the justification that the Lions missed opportunities and blew the game themselves. Both these teams are really good, one or two bad calls can and did swing the outcome. No different than in baseball, the ump incorrectly calling a 2-1 pitch can definitely swing the outcome of the atbat and even the game. To not blame the officiating here...that's the type of thing the Lions coach will tell his players to get them not to dwell on it and try harder next time...but it's simply not reality and is just a horrible horrible take. Probably one of the worst takes I've seen on these boards in a while...and I just got done thoroughly reading through clancy's offseason plan for the brewers.

 

The Lions did blow it themselves, though. They gained 58 yards of total offense in the second half. They kicked 5 field goals and the only TD they scored may have been a gift. And you are trying to tell me that my feeling that the Lions blew their opportunities to put the Packers away early is a horrible take?

 

I mean, I totally get the people saying that the refs gave the Packers a gift, but you can't deny that the Lions could and probably should have put the Packers away. But if you were trying to be insulting, mission accomplished. Wow.

[homer]

After the Fail Mary and Matthews roughing call against the Vikings literally cost the Packers two games, I really don't care if people call me a homer for shrugging off those bad calls. Karma, suckas.

[yourout]

I find the college football 25 yard OT thing lame. I know I'm in the minority but never liked it.

No I am with you, college OT is horrible. The NFL for its faults is still played like a regular game. Placing the ball at the opponents 25 and making it an arena football game is bad.

 

My idea for NFL overtime would be like college with one exception.

No kicks.....no FGs, no extra points.

Every TD would be a try for 2 after.

[homer]

Any game that isn't 31-0 can be rationalized away as a team missing opportunities. They Lions could have done themselves a favor by getting TDs instead of FGs.

 

Or maybe just having 11 guys on defense on a field goal attempt.