2020 Brewers rotation

[monty57]

I really wish we hadn't signed Anderson... He just complicates things.

 

Oh well, once he gets hurt, it will be a moot point.

 

The Lauer news would seemingly contradict this statement.

 

Yeah, I don't get why someone would hate depth. It's pretty likely that all of the seven guys competing for the rotation will get MLB starts this year. It's also pretty likely that at least one of them will under-perform, so it's good to have capable replacements.

[KeithStone53151]

Yeah, I don't get why someone would hate depth. It's pretty likely that all of the seven guys competing for the rotation will get MLB starts this year. It's also pretty likely that at least one of them will under-perform, so it's good to have capable replacements.

 

For me it's less about hating depth, I don't think anyone hates depth. My issue is I want the best guys pitching if possible. We can still maintain depth with the best guys starting. Prior to the Lauer injury, my preference was one of Lindblom/Anderson in the pen and Lauer and Peralta starting. With the Lauer injury and now Burnes/Peralta competing for the last spot...that changes things.

 

I'll say I 100% want Peralta in the rotation to open the year. I don't want him opening in the pen and getting shifted to a starter during the year. I don't want to bounce a young arm that we are definitely keeping long term from the pen to rotation. I won't mind if we bounce him to the pen later on to limit his innings(if needed) and as a multi-inning playoff weapon, I just don't want to re-stretch him out again in May or June. I care much less if we do that with Lindblom or Anderson...especially Anderson considering he's a 1 year commitment.

 

So if the Brewers decide Burnes has turned a corner and bump him to the opening day rotation, I would then want one of Lindblom/Anderson to the pen. It's probably smartest at this point to let Burnes open in AAA for a month and see how that goes...but we'll see.

 

Protecting and developing Burnes/Peralta must be a priority, as they are the future of the rotation...and it's tough to imagine us legit contending for a WS this year without one or both of them breaking out in a big way. A playoff rotation of Woodruff, Houser, Anderson, Lindblom scares nobody...not even the Pirates.

[TURBO]

Anderson being depth?

 

The guy is hurt constantly. We need depth behind him to allow for his IL stays during the season, but I don't look at him as depth for that reason. Depth would be guys you can count on to fill in for guys like Anderson, who we all know is going to be injured.

[PeaveyFury]

Anderson being depth?

 

The guy is hurt constantly. We need depth behind him to allow for his IL stays during the season, but I don't look at him as depth for that reason. Depth would be guys you can count on to fill in for guys like Anderson, who we all know is going to be injured.

 

Innings need to be pitched regardless, and Anderson put up 2.5 WAR in the 176 of them he pitched last year. Yeah, he has a rough injury history, which is why you like to have many options if that's an issue again.

 

But he has a history of being an above average pitcher when he does take the mound.

[KeithStone53151]

But he has a history of being an above average pitcher when he does take the mound.

 

Brett Anderson from 2015-2019. 5.28 k/9(lowest in MLB), 2.21 k/bb, 4.38 ERA, 4.32 FIP, 501 innings, 4.8 WAR. None of that is above average. The only thing he does above average is generate ground balls(58.1%)...which is less valuable with between 1 and 3 questionable infield defenders on a given day.

[PeaveyFury]

That's a bit misleading, Keith. Of the 2015-19 time period you cite, that represents only two seasons where his results weren't injury-affected, as 2015 and 2019 combined represented 70% of those innings, and 75% of the WAR. In those two seasons, he put up ERAs of 3.69 and 3.89, respectively, and WARs of 1.6 and 2.5.

 

The point is, when he's healthy and on the mound, he performs well, and that's less innings than our likely innings-limited guys like Peralta and Burnes would need to pitch. And the beauty of his deal is that if he's the injury-plagued guy of 16-18, the Brewers 60-day DL him for the rest of the season and it's done. The Brewers are clearly hoping for the 170-inning Anderson, but they're out very little if he's the 33 inning guy.

[MVP2110]

If we hadn't signed Anderson we'd be looking at an opening day rotation of Woodruff, Houser, Lindblom, Peralta, Burnes with Shelby Miller as our top fill in option. No thanks

[AKCheesehead]

PeaveyFury’s point about innings limits for Peralta and Burnes is something I’d been considering as well. I have no idea what their innings limits are. One thing I do know is this: I can accept starting a guy in the pen to preserve depth early in the year no problem. However, I probably start to fault decisions and get grumpy when we have to shut down a good pitcher during a pennant race because of innings limits.

 

Edit to clarify: the decision I’d fault would be the decision that lead to reaching an innings limit, not the decision to shut down an arm when that limit has been reached.

[Jenkins5]

If we hadn't signed Anderson we'd be looking at an opening day rotation of Woodruff, Houser, Lindblom, Peralta, Burnes with Shelby Miller as our top fill in option. No thanks

 

Depth is good. So I get that. Lauer injury just proves that but since I personally want Woody, Houser, Burnes, & Peralta in rotation....I’d still would have been fine with it. Burnes ceiling imo isn’t much different than Woody’s. He’s a frontline guy potential, just needs to pitch at MLB level and make adjustments as he grows. Sadly, he will prob have to sit in AAA.

 

Lot of talk about Anderson. If healthy he is pretty effective. He’s a solid pitcher who will get outs. Will he stay healthy, who knows. If I was a betting man, I’d take the under on him starting 17 games based on history. Not a guy you look forward to seeing on mound or guy you see is pitching and say confidently “oh we should be good tonight.” However, he will compete and more often than not, give you a chance to win. Burnes & Peralta get me excited to tune in. That is only thing that I don’t like about signing is that it kicks a guy I really enjoy watching out. If I take away that bias, think him & Lindblom are solid guys in this rotation.

 

Interested to see what arms start knocking on door and present depth options. Think most of us were predicting a Hader/Burnes type summer last year for Brown. Come up in July to help bullpen Then compete for job this spring. That bombed and Brown was nowhere near the guy we expected him to be last year. Hopefully he bounces back. Trey Supek could be a guy by mid season if he continues to make adjustments he has after each call up. He shows struggles early after mid season promotions but when he comes back & repeats, he rolls. He had his learning struggles in AAA last year. So could see him coming out very strong.

[DHonks]

Will Sammon

@WillSammon

·

1m

Eric Lauer, competing for fifth starter job for Brewers, dealing with left shoulder impingement, relatively minor but issue does rule out start of the season, Counsell said.

 

Can't rewind his clock if he's on the DL. No Bueno.

 

totally irrelevant. Fans worry more about arby clocks than teams to. Teams want production

[brewcrewdue80]

Will Sammon

@WillSammon

·

1m

Eric Lauer, competing for fifth starter job for Brewers, dealing with left shoulder impingement, relatively minor but issue does rule out start of the season, Counsell said.

 

Can't rewind his clock if he's on the DL. No Bueno.

 

totally irrelevant. Fans worry more about arby clocks than teams to. Teams want production

 

I'd believe that if CC hadnt said Peralta and Lauer are battling for the #5 and guaranteed spots to Houser, Lindblom.....and Anderson. After Freddy's contract his service clock matters 0. Woodruff will be a Super 2. Lauer will be a Super 2 if he is on the roster 130days? Roughly. Hader is a Super 2. That will add up 2years from now. Hader#3 Woodruff#2 Lauer#2 Houser#1.

So just saying, it would help their payroll quite a bit to option him for 9starts.

[CheeseheadInQC]

 

totally irrelevant. Fans worry more about arby clocks than teams to. Teams want production

 

I'd believe that if CC hadnt said Peralta and Lauer are battling for the #5 and guaranteed spots to Houser, Lindblom.....and Anderson. After Freddy's contract his service clock matters 0. Woodruff will be a Super 2. Lauer will be a Super 2 if he is on the roster 130days? Roughly. Hader is a Super 2. That will add up 2years from now. Hader#3 Woodruff#2 Lauer#2 Houser#1.

So just saying, it would help their payroll quite a bit to option him for 9starts.

 

Didn't he also say the loser was likely headed to the pen? That's the other thing with Lauer's injury: If they stick with the plan of having Burnes in AAA it opens up another bullpen job.

[DHonks]

 

totally irrelevant. Fans worry more about arby clocks than teams to. Teams want production

 

I'd believe that if CC hadnt said Peralta and Lauer are battling for the #5 and guaranteed spots to Houser, Lindblom.....and Anderson. After Freddy's contract his service clock matters 0. Woodruff will be a Super 2. Lauer will be a Super 2 if he is on the roster 130days? Roughly. Hader is a Super 2. That will add up 2years from now. Hader#3 Woodruff#2 Lauer#2 Houser#1.

So just saying, it would help their payroll quite a bit to option him for 9starts.

 

Didn't he also say the loser was likely headed to the pen? That's the other thing with Lauer's injury: If they stick with the plan of having Burnes in AAA it opens up another bullpen job.

 

No, he said if Peralta loses he probably goes to the pen. If Lauer lost, he probably went to AAA for depth since we’ll need 10 starters this year

[markedman5]

Both Perakta and Burnes are going to be on the roster.....now just figuring out where

 

[KeithStone53151]

Both Perakta and Burnes are going to be on the roster.....now just figuring out where

 

 

Facepalm...

 

One bullpen and one starting seems like a safe bet for what will happen with those 2.

 

If one of these guys blows out an arm and needs TJ when shifting from pen to rotation later in the season...you may as well just ban me because I will not stop being upset about it on here.

[markedman5]

Both Perakta and Burnes are going to be on the roster.....now just figuring out where

 

 

Facepalm...

 

One bullpen and one starting seems like a safe bet for what will happen with those 2.

 

If one of these guys blows out an arm and needs TJ when shifting from pen to rotation later in the season...you may as well just ban me because I will not stop being upset about it on here.

 

Give me a break........Take a breath dude.....seriously.

[wntrtxn21]

Both Perakta and Burnes are going to be on the roster.....now just figuring out where

 

 

Holy crap did Burnes come a long way since last year! IF he can live up to his potential it would give the Crew two TOR guys and a great shot at the post season. I'm still going to be cautious and see if the hype is warrented this year, but dreaming of what could be is awesome.

[brewcrewdue80]

Both Perakta and Burnes are going to be on the roster.....now just figuring out where

 

 

Love it. Bullpen is that much stronger....or? Starting rotation is that much stronger

[Jenkins5]

Both Perakta and Burnes are going to be on the roster.....now just figuring out where

 

 

Facepalm...

 

One bullpen and one starting seems like a safe bet for what will happen with those 2.

 

If one of these guys blows out an arm and needs TJ when shifting from pen to rotation later in the season...you may as well just ban me because I will not stop being upset about it on here.

 

Hmmmm never knew that was that big of an issue going back and forth. I’ve managed to watch baseball for a long time now & that really was never crossed my mind. I’ve said, if Mark Rogers blows out his arm again because they refuse to let his fragile arm pitch out of pen, I’ll lose my mind. But never have I thought about two guys with no previous injury now being at risk to blowing out arm from swinging back and forth.

 

Really depends on how they use them. April is a month you see guys only going 5 innings a lot anyway. If you have odd man out pitch long relief and keep them stretched out a bit it’s not a problem. Keep them pitching 2-3 innings on a good schedule. Now if they sit there, 1 inning here and there, then problems could come.

[Jenkins5]

This time last year I was saying Burnes will be our Ace. This year I still believe same thing. I’m a Burnes homer though so even if he bombs again, next spring I’ll probably still sing same song. There is just too much potential in that guy.

[Ennder]

Both Perakta and Burnes are going to be on the roster.....now just figuring out where

 

 

Facepalm...

 

One bullpen and one starting seems like a safe bet for what will happen with those 2.

 

If one of these guys blows out an arm and needs TJ when shifting from pen to rotation later in the season...you may as well just ban me because I will not stop being upset about it on here.

 

There is no reason to believe that moving from the pen to the rotation is bad for a pitchers arm, if anything this is the preferred way to break a starter in if you have the luxury to do it. I wouldn't want them to keep jerking them back and forth but if one is in the rotation half the season and them moves to the pen and the other is in the pen half the season and moves to the rotation that is called being smart.

[TJseven7]

Why not BOTH?

 

Burnes is a starter. No reason to have him in the pen. Start him or put him in AAA.

Peralta is looking like a starter or a fireman. I can see the case for each.

 

But there's still zero reason you have to START HOUSER who is worse than BOTH of these options. Lauer hurt. Ok you are in AAA. Woodruff Anderson Burnes Lindblom Peralta works just fine and is the PATH WE WANT TO BE ON LONG TERM! In 2020-2021 there is zero case you can make to say Houser is better than Lauer. Anderson goes FA, Lauer steps in. Lindblom will be looking to hold off the entire farm and 1 small year later there could be 2-3 guys knocking on that door.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Why not BOTH?

 

Burnes is a starter. No reason to have him in the pen. Start him or put him in AAA.

Peralta is looking like a starter or a fireman. I can see the case for each.

 

But there's still zero reason you have to START HOUSER who is worse than BOTH of these options. Lauer hurt. Ok you are in AAA. Woodruff Anderson Burnes Lindblom Peralta works just fine and is the PATH WE WANT TO BE ON LONG TERM! In 2020-2021 there is zero case you can make to say Houser is better than Lauer. Anderson goes FA, Lauer steps in. Lindblom will be looking to hold off the entire farm and 1 small year later there could be 2-3 guys knocking on that door.

 

You keep preaching this, and I keep responding by saying that there is absolutely no indication that Houser's spot in the rotation is anywhere close to being in jeopardy. No matter how much you want it, you simply cannot wish it true. Every time Counsell has been asked about his rotation this spring, Houser has been a part of it.

[KeithStone53151]

Facepalm...

 

One bullpen and one starting seems like a safe bet for what will happen with those 2.

 

If one of these guys blows out an arm and needs TJ when shifting from pen to rotation later in the season...you may as well just ban me because I will not stop being upset about it on here.

 

There is no reason to believe that moving from the pen to the rotation is bad for a pitchers arm, if anything this is the preferred way to break a starter in if you have the luxury to do it. I wouldn't want them to keep jerking them back and forth but if one is in the rotation half the season and them moves to the pen and the other is in the pen half the season and moves to the rotation that is called being smart.

 

The situation you're referring to generally happens over multiple seasons. Kinda like Woodruff and Burnes were both initially broken in moving from AAA rotation to MLB bullpen...then to the rotation the following season. After a full offseason to rest/recover, and stretch out on a normal routine. Asking these guys to stretch out, then pitch short outings potentially everyday, and then stretch back out 2 months later. Aside from injury concerns, it also has been discussed at length how that may have contributed to Houser struggling in the rotation after being lights out in the pen for a month and a half last year. It's not an easy thing to do in a competitive environment. If Anderson has to stretch back out in May and blows out his arm...oh well, if it wasn't his arm it would be something else with that guy. We should take more care to protect these young arms, as we've clearly struggled to develop quality arms for a long time and finally have a few good ones.

[JohnBriggs12]

Houser is not a young arm. He's in the middle of his career age wise.