Questions for 2020

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Actually that wasn’t my narrative at all, but carry on.

 

Coulda fooled me. What is it then?

I mean, you literally said this - "Rumor had it Shaw was already unhappy with us and wanted to be released instead of rotting away his year in the minors. Not to mention he didn't seem to really enjoy the part time role even in September."

 

You said right there he was unhappy with the team. Unhappy = mad, right?

 

I personally did not say that ’right’ there. I said that was the rumor.

 

He definitely was unhappy with the situation and I really doubt he was okay being in the minors and not being able to be in the majors to prove himself. Who would? No one.

 

Give me a break. You wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't believe it. Of course he was unhappy. Because he played like crap in the majors.

[adambr2]

There's a big, big difference between a player being upset because he was a solid regular MLB player and his performance declined so sharply that he was sent to the minor leagues (basically any competitive player), and a player being upset with his organization and wanting to leave because of his performance decline and subsequent demotion.

 

There's no evidence that suggests Shaw was the latter.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

There's a big, big difference between a player being upset because he was a solid regular MLB player and his performance declined so sharply that he was sent to the minor leagues (basically any competitive player), and a player being upset with his organization and wanting to leave because of his performance decline and subsequent demotion.

 

There's no evidence that suggests Shaw was the latter.

 

Right ... believing the latter is making a lot of assumptions while jumping to some pretty drastic conclusions.

[adambr2]

There's a big, big difference between a player being upset because he was a solid regular MLB player and his performance declined so sharply that he was sent to the minor leagues (basically any competitive player), and a player being upset with his organization and wanting to leave because of his performance decline and subsequent demotion.

 

There's no evidence that suggests Shaw was the latter.

 

Right ... believing the latter is making a lot of assumptions while jumping to some pretty drastic conclusions.

 

I mean we had an All-Star closer in Corey Knebel who had such a bad stretch last year that he as well actually got sent down to AAA for awhile in 2018. He lost his role, then lost his spot, went down, figured things out, came back up and was a big part of the success of the pen late last year.

 

It happens. It does not mean he was down in Colorado Springs privately fuming for a trade.

 

For most of these guys, they recognize that their career is a marathon, not a sprint, and aren't going to be seeking a trade or release every time things go south.

[markedman5]

Similar to Shaw's tweet

 

 

We have a bunch of good guys on this team........it's why I never boo.....these guys care..... nobody enjoys playing poorly......

[FVBrewerFan]

It's ridiculous to suggest Shaw wanted to be traded or released so he could play full time. I think you're missing the obvious. Did he really think there was a twam out there saying "we need a .150 hitter who can give us 600 ABs!" I mean who in the world would give him a full time role?

[clancyphile]

It's ridiculous to suggest Shaw wanted to be traded or released so he could play full time. I think you're missing the obvious. Did he really think there was a twam out there saying "we need a .150 hitter who can give us 600 ABs!" I mean who in the world would give him a full time role?

 

Someone looking to tank a season?

[brewmann04]

I like o get Drew back and add him with a Healthy knebel in the pen

[Pugger]

There's a big, big difference between a player being upset because he was a solid regular MLB player and his performance declined so sharply that he was sent to the minor leagues (basically any competitive player), and a player being upset with his organization and wanting to leave because of his performance decline and subsequent demotion.

 

There's no evidence that suggests Shaw was the latter.

 

Plus the fact we kept him around for the playoffs. Shaw saw other players that were not performing either get shipped out like Aguilar or released like Chacin.

[Pugger]

I like o get Drew back and add him with a Healthy knebel in the pen

 

Me too. These 2 along with Hader next year and our pen could be something special.

[MrTPlush]

Give me a break. You wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't believe it. Of course he was unhappy. Because he played like crap in the majors.

 

Actually, I think I can bring something up and not have it be my opinion. I do it all the time for future reference.

 

Do I think Shaw would have preferred to be released versus staying here all year in the minors? Yes, I do. Once again, why would he not want that? He would have got paid the same and a team likely would have scooped him up and given him playing time for league minimum. By staying in the minors all year he had no way to prove himself. With another team he could have latched on with someone and proven he was worth offering arbitration to or to secure a starting job going into 2020 with. Now he very well could not get offered arbitration and never got another chance to prove himself.

 

Do I think he was demanding the Brewers release him? Probably not, doesn’t mean he didn’t wish it had happened.

 

This actually makes no more assumptions than someone saying he was fine being here and was fine sitting around in the minors all year. So maybe give yourself a break too? There may be ‘no evidence to back it up’, but you guys also have zippo evidence he didn’t want to be released.

[adambr2]

Give me a break. You wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't believe it. Of course he was unhappy. Because he played like crap in the majors.

 

Actually, I think I can bring something up and not have it be my opinion. I do it all the time for future reference.

 

Do I think Shaw would have preferred to be released versus staying here all year in the minors? Yes, I do. Once again, why would he not want that? He would have got paid the same and a team likely would have scooped him up and given him playing time for league minimum. By staying in the minors all year he had no way to prove himself. With another team he could have latched on with someone and proven he was worth offering arbitration to or to secure a starting job going into 2020 with. Now he very well could not get offered arbitration and never got another chance to prove himself.

 

Do I think he was demanding the Brewers release him? Probably not, doesn’t mean he didn’t wish it had happened.

 

This actually makes no more assumptions than someone saying he was fine being here and was fine sitting around in the minors all year. So maybe give yourself a break too? There may be ‘no evidence to back it up’, but you guys also have zippo evidence he didn’t want to be released.

 

I already gave you multiple reasons why he might not want that -- possible opening at 3rd next year if Moose doesn't return, comfort level with Milwaukee, not losing any pay to try to fix things in the minors, no guarantee of any starting position anywhere else if he gets released.

 

Your last sentence is just weird. So we are going to start speculating that guys want to be traded or released if they struggle just because we can't prove otherwise? Why? Should I start whispering around here that I would guess Corbin Burnes and Freddy Peralta want out of Milwaukee if they don't crack the 2020 rotation so they can go prove themselves elsewhere?

 

Maybe David Stearns wants to get out of Milwaukee and head to a bigger market as soon as possible. There's no evidence to back it up, but you have no evidence that he doesn't want to.

[MrTPlush]

I already gave you multiple reasons why he might not want that -- possible opening at 3rd next year if Moose doesn't return, comfort level with Milwaukee, not losing any pay to try to fix things in the minors, no guarantee of any starting position anywhere else if he gets released.

 

Your last sentence is just weird. So we are going to start speculating that guys want to be traded or released if they struggle just because we can't prove otherwise? Why? Should I start whispering around here that I would guess Corbin Burnes and Freddy Peralta want out of Milwaukee if they don't crack the 2020 rotation so they can go prove themselves elsewhere?

 

Maybe David Stearns wants to get out of Milwaukee and head to a bigger market as soon as possible. There's no evidence to back it up, but you have no evidence that he doesn't want to.

 

I gave you multiple reason why he would.

 

You have no evidence that he wanted to be here.

 

 

I have a logical opinion, you have a logical opinion. Differing opinions is okay.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Give me a break. You wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't believe it. Of course he was unhappy. Because he played like crap in the majors.

 

Actually, I think I can bring something up and not have it be my opinion. I do it all the time for future reference.

 

Do I think Shaw would have preferred to be released versus staying here all year in the minors? Yes, I do. Once again, why would he not want that? He would have got paid the same and a team likely would have scooped him up and given him playing time for league minimum. By staying in the minors all year he had no way to prove himself. With another team he could have latched on with someone and proven he was worth offering arbitration to or to secure a starting job going into 2020 with. Now he very well could not get offered arbitration and never got another chance to prove himself.

 

Do I think he was demanding the Brewers release him? Probably not, doesn’t mean he didn’t wish it had happened.

 

This actually makes no more assumptions than someone saying he was fine being here and was fine sitting around in the minors all year. So maybe give yourself a break too? There may be ‘no evidence to back it up’, but you guys also have zippo evidence he didn’t want to be released.

 

That's fine. You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. But it appears that if you were looking for others to agree with you, it won't happen.

[adamds22]

Let's move on from if Shaw was upset with the team or upset with himself! Shaw sucked was not a major part of the team this year, lets hope he finds some way to provide value next year.

 

Lot of question marks with the team this offseason with a lot of money to spend, it will be very interesting to see what DS does. I'd like to see Moose and Grandal back but definitely understand the points about both of them being on the older side of the spectrum so committing multi year deals to aging players usually doesn't work out the greatest.

[adamds22]

Let's move on from if Shaw was upset with the team or upset with himself! Shaw sucked was not a major part of the team this year, lets hope he finds some way to provide value next year.

 

Lot of question marks with the team this offseason with a lot of money to spend, it will be very interesting to see what DS does. I'd like to see Moose and Grandal back but definitely understand the points about both of them being on the older side of the spectrum so committing multi year deals to aging players usually doesn't work out the greatest.

[DHonks]

players:

-re-sign any of Pomeranz, Lyles, Grandal, and Moose?

-Is Nelson a starter or reliever? looked good in last month's outings

-Peralta to AAA rotation, MLB rotation, or MLB pen? he's still awfully young, but loved the velocity jump

-Burnes to AAA rotation, MLB rotation, or MLB pen?

-Houser to rotation or 1-2 IP 6th-7th inning guy?

-Suter as 2 IP reliever or starter?

-1b. Will it be Thames at $7.5m, Shaw at $4m, Braun, or someone else?

-3b. Will it be Shaw or Moose?

-What kind of value does Shaw, Davies, and Anderson have on the trade market?

-Perez or someone more valuable offensively?

-is Nottingham ready to be a backup

 

Well, 2 down. With Thames non-tendered, I still think Shaw and Braun splitting time at 1b is an option.

[Soupbone]

What about non tender Shaw and use that money to help sign Donaldson and Moose? Would have 1B and 3B covered and money to go get a pitcher or two?

[DHonks]

What about non tender Shaw and use that money to help sign Donaldson and Moose? Would have 1B and 3B covered and money to go get a pitcher or two?

 

You’re assuming they want to come here. We can’t just go shopping like at your

Local store

[wntrtxn21]

What about non tender Shaw and use that money to help sign Donaldson and Moose? Would have 1B and 3B covered and money to go get a pitcher or two?

 

Donaldson is looking for $20+M and Moose would be in the $11-12M range. With the raises and arby payments there would be little for pitching. Better to spend the Donaldson money on pitching and pay Moose to play 3B. Non tendering Shaw saves only about $4.7M.

[brewmann04]

I still think Shaw get a Tender unless David has a plan for 3rd base

[JohnBriggs12]

I still think Shaw get a Tender unless David has a plan for 3rd base

 

If they go into next season with Shaw penciled in to start anywhere, they aren't serious about contending. Yeah he could rebound, but let him rebound somewhere else. Serious contenders don't go into a season relying on .157 hitters to carry the load. There's plenty of other options for 3B that won't cost a ton. They might not have Shaw's ceiling, but their floors are much, much higher.

[PeaveyFury]

I trust Stearns' ability to determine whether Shaw's season was an outlier or a trend better than our ability here, so I think Monday will give a good indicator of what the Brewers feel Shaw is capable of in 2020.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I still think Shaw get a Tender unless David has a plan for 3rd base

 

If they go into next season with Shaw penciled in to start anywhere, they aren't serious about contending. Yeah he could rebound, but let him rebound somewhere else. Serious contenders don't go into a season relying on .157 hitters to carry the load. There's plenty of other options for 3B that won't cost a ton. They might not have Shaw's ceiling, but their floors are much, much higher.

 

Oh yes, because players who had horrible seasons NEVER rebound, right.

 

This is a bad take. I totally agree that there is obvious concern for Shaw considering his poor season, but he isn't at an age where players typically decline, and he had a two-year track record of good offense before going in the tank last year.

 

To state as a fact that the Brewers don't have intention of contending if they give Shaw another chance is simply taking an extreme stance for the sake of taking one.

[Devinep]

By had anyone ever has as bad a season drop off as Shaw and rebounded? I cannot think of any