2019-10-01 (NL Wild Card Game): Brewers (Woodruff) at Nationals (Scherzer) 7:08 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 4-3 -- Nationals score 3 runs in 8th inning; Heartbreaking end to 2019]

[Bob Skube Snacks]

Do the packers commemorate wild card appearances? Or even division championships. Do the bucks do the same for playoff appearances, etc?

 

Different sports. Access to the postseason is easier in both. Baseball is still the hardest postseason to qualify for. I have no problem with a little flag out there for the 2019 Wild Card. They’re not ostentatious anyway.

[sveumrules]

Hard to consider the season a success in a vacuum. Everyone wanted to build on last year and they didn't.

 

Outer space is a vacuum, our atmosphere protects us from that (for a little while longer anyway, maybe).

 

On planet Earth, as the NL was constituted in the year 2019, it's hard to consider this season anything but a success, with the Cubs, Phillies & Mets spending a half billion combined (to say nothing of the other NL clubs with postseason aspirations) just to fall short of where we ended up.

 

Everyone might have wanted to build on last year, but that would have necessitated going to the World Series (thee only way I'm aware of to building on losing in game 7 of the NLCS) & that was always a long shot considering the Dodgers juggernaut.

[willie key]

Do the packers commemorate wild card appearances? Or even division championships. Do the bucks do the same for playoff appearances, etc?

 

Different sports. Access to the postseason is easier in both. Baseball is still the hardest postseason to qualify for. I have no problem with a little flag out there for the 2019 Wild Card. They’re not ostentatious anyway.

 

 

Football is 6 out of 16 teams and baseball is 5 out of 15. So it’s pretty close. I could see putting a banner out for division titles listing the years but I don’t know about wild cards

 

I guess it doesn’t matter to me either way. But I do get the point people are making that playing and losing this game isn’t as big a deal as others make it out to be

[sveumrules]

But an absolutely failure from game 160 on. They should be playing more games. It was garbage.

 

By game 160, 20 teams' entire seasons were ALREADY absolute failures.

 

I guess if you want to say we were ONLY the 10th best team this year, I can get behind that.

[adambr2]

Do the packers commemorate wild card appearances? Or even division championships. Do the bucks do the same for playoff appearances, etc?

 

Different sports. Access to the postseason is easier in both. Baseball is still the hardest postseason to qualify for. I have no problem with a little flag out there for the 2019 Wild Card. They’re not ostentatious anyway.

 

A little, but making the playoffs in baseball is not what it used to be. It's a 33.3% qualification rate in MLB, compared with 37.5% in the NFL. It's a very insignificant difference.

 

I guess, maybe it does come off as a little pretentious, but I would like us to get to a point in this organization where this is expected, and the gold standard is a little higher than that.

 

I can't speak for every Packer fan here, but if they won the WC2 this year and were bounced in the Wild Card round, I'd feel it was a bit silly if I walked into Lambeau Field and a "Packers 2019 Wild Card" banner was hanging. And again, the playoff qualification rate for MLB and NFL is very close to the same.

[dlk9s]

This season was a tremendous success. Think of all the crap the team had to overcome to make the playoffs.

 

Knebel out all season

Jeffress hurt, then bad, then off the team

Aguilar bad, off the team

Shaw terrible, demoted

Suter out most the season

Nelson still out basically all season

Woodruff out for a couple months

Chacin bad, sent packing

Anderson out for a while

Cain banged up, struggled at the plate (still wonderful defense, though)

Perez struggled, demoted for a stint

Arcia never really improved

Yelich breaks his knee, out for the stretch run and playoffs (and he was out for a couple weeks earlier in the season)

 

I'm sure I'm missing a couple.

 

Think of how few players on the team were consistently good and available all season. How this team made the playoffs is a mystery.

[willie key]

But an absolutely failure from game 160 on. They should be playing more games. It was garbage.

 

By game 160, 20 teams' entire seasons were ALREADY absolute failures.

 

I guess if you want to say we were ONLY the 10th best team this year, I can get behind that.

 

 

Actually no. There were teams with better records that weren’t in the playoffs. So it depends on how you rank the teams. Luckily we played in a league were only 89 wins got you in

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It's not as simple as qualification rate. Football is so many fewer games and so much more dictated by one guy that if you have a top QB you are usually good to make it over and over and over. Baseball is much more of a grind and has far more working parts that all have to be consistently good to do that. You can't get lucky (as often) to win 90-95 the way there are always fluke 10-12 win teams.

[willie key]

It's not as simple as qualification rate. Football is so many fewer games and so much more dictated by one guy that if you have a top QB you are usually good to make it over and over and over. Baseball is much more of a grind and has far more working parts that all have to be consistently good to do that. You can't get lucky (as often) to win 90-95 the way there are always fluke 10-12 win teams.

 

 

Yeah but your winning percentage in baseball can be way lower. The brewers won less than 55% of their games this year. Even a crappy 9-7 team is better than that

[sveumrules]

Actually no. There were teams with better records that weren’t in the playoffs. So it depends on how you rank the teams. Luckily we played in a league were only 89 wins got you in

 

Actually no. There weren't teams with a better record with us, there was A single team.

 

The Cleveland Indians, who went 30-8 against the Royals & Tigers.

 

If we got to play 38 games against two 100+ loss teams, we might have won a few more games too.

[adambr2]

I mean to me you're not *really* a playoff team if you don't at least make the Divisional series. I understand that the WC game *technically* IS a playoff game and therefore you are a playoff team but it really just felt more like Game 163 last year than anything that came after that.

 

I don't mean that to take anything away from what they accomplished this year. It was a fun ride in September. I just have a hard time mentally putting the play-in game losers on the same level as the teams that are going to be grinding it out in 5 to 7 game series' for the next few weeks.

 

It just feels a little unsatisfying to rejoice about being the league's 10th best team.

[owbc]

None of this is fair but our season just ended with "HE BOTCHED IT" and that's the way it is.

 

They made a pretty nice run after the Yelich injury, which we all kind of knew at the time would be the death of this team in one way or another.

 

That's about as close as I'll get to a silver lining. I'm devastated. I'm done with this for a while.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

That's really just a function of playing so many games. Get a franchise QB and you are probably a playoff team for 7/10 years. In baseball you can have the MVP and win 75 games. It is by far the hardest sport to sustain success if you have budget constraints.

[RollieTime]

Uh-oh

 

Gotta say, that was exactly what I said after the first pitch from Hader. And after his second pitch, I said “he doesn’t have it tonight”. Truly a disappointing finish, but glad to have the opportunity to play in the Wild Card Game instead of not being in the playoffs at all.

[sveumrules]

It just feels a little unsatisfying to rejoice about being the league's 10th best team.

 

I'm not rejoicing, by any means. At the same time, there are varying levels of success.

 

We were more successful than 20 teams, including quite a few who spent way more money only to fail at being more successful than us. We were less successful than 9 teams.

 

Over the last three years we've won the 8th most games in MLB, more than the A's or the Rays or even the Cardinals.

 

Considering where the organization was at when Stearns took over, its kinda hard for me to be upset with being only the 2nd best small market team besides Cleveland in such a short amount of time.

 

We've only just begun...we'll start out walking & we'll learn to run...etc...etc

[willie key]

Actually no. There were teams with better records that weren’t in the playoffs. So it depends on how you rank the teams. Luckily we played in a league were only 89 wins got you in

 

Actually no. There weren't teams with a better record with us, there was A single team.

 

The Cleveland Indians, who went 30-8 against the Royals & Tigers.

 

If we got to play 38 games against two 100+ loss teams, we might have won a few more games too.

 

Whatever dude. Your the semantic guy. I was just helping you out

 

But I will concede the point (despite not mentioning that some of these teams also play against 100 odd win teams while our division had the worst division champion) since you actually graduated to using context with data

 

That makes it infinitely more fun and useful to debate.

[adambr2]

Uh-oh

 

Gotta say, that was exactly what I said after the first pitch from Hader. And after his second pitch, I said “he doesn’t have it tonight”. Truly a disappointing finish, but glad to have the opportunity to play in the Wild Card Game instead of not being in the playoffs at all.

 

And that to me again is the difference between this year and last. When Hader didn't have it last year, we had Knebel and Jeffress in our back pocket. This year, if Hader didn't have it, we didn't have it.

[adambr2]

It just feels a little unsatisfying to rejoice about being the league's 10th best team.

 

I'm not rejoicing, by any means. At the same time, there are varying levels of success.

 

We were more successful than 20 teams, including quite a few who spent way more money only to fail at being more successful than us. We were less successful than 9 teams.

 

Over the last three years we've won the 8th most games in MLB, more than the A's or the Rays or even the Cardinals.

 

Considering where the organization was at when Stearns took over, its kinda hard for me to be upset with being only the 2nd best small market team besides Cleveland in such a short amount of time.

 

We've only just begun...we'll start out walking & we'll learn to run...etc...etc

 

He's done a great job. We'll get Yelich back next year, get Knebel back, hopefully keep a few of the guys that were instrumental to our success this year, and hopefully win the division and go from there.

 

Just hard to feel much besides bitter disappointment right now.

[willie key]

That's really just a function of playing so many games. Get a franchise QB and you are probably a playoff team for 7/10 years. In baseball you can have the MVP and win 75 games. It is by far the hardest sport to sustain success if you have budget constraints.

 

 

Times have changed though. Baseball is not perfect but it’s helped all teams out. The royals went to back to back World Series. Tampa bay. Milwaukee. Oakland all won a lot of games. Cleveland too Minnesota too

 

Tampa and Oakland have horrible stadium situations.

 

I’m actually ok with where baseball is today. Compared to awhile ago

[willie key]

It just feels a little unsatisfying to rejoice about being the league's 10th best team.

 

I'm not rejoicing, by any means. At the same time, there are varying levels of success.

 

We were more successful than 20 teams, including quite a few who spent way more money only to fail at being more successful than us. We were less successful than 9 teams.

 

Over the last three years we've won the 8th most games in MLB, more than the A's or the Rays or even the Cardinals.

 

Considering where the organization was at when Stearns took over, its kinda hard for me to be upset with being only the 2nd best small market team besides Cleveland in such a short amount of time.

 

We've only just begun...we'll start out walking & we'll learn to run...etc...etc

 

He's done a great job. We'll get Yelich back next year, get Knebel back, hopefully keep a few of the guys that were instrumental to our success this year, and hopefully win the division and go from there.

 

Just hard to feel much besides bitter disappointment right now.

 

Stearns has done a heck of a job. Counsell has too overall. We can always nitpick games but they have done their job

[clancyphile]

Hard to consider the season a success in a vacuum. Everyone wanted to build on last year and they didn't.

 

Outer space is a vacuum, our atmosphere protects us from that (for a little while longer anyway, maybe).

 

On planet Earth, as the NL was constituted in the year 2019, it's hard to consider this season anything but a success, with the Cubs, Phillies & Mets spending a half billion combined (to say nothing of the other NL clubs with postseason aspirations) just to fall short of where we ended up.

 

Everyone might have wanted to build on last year, but that would have necessitated going to the World Series (thee only way I'm aware of to building on losing in game 7 of the NLCS) & that was always a long shot considering the Dodgers juggernaut.

 

With the injuries that happened... I'm cool with this year and what the team did.

 

• 1. Knebel out for the year
  2. Jeffress hurt to start the year and never the same
  3. Shaw hurt and not the same
  4. Nelson rushed back to the majors too soon
  5. Burnes with a sophomore slump that was ugly
  6. Lorenzo Cain playing through injuries when he should have been on the DL
  7. Yelich hurt and out for the stretch run
  8. Aguilar slumping before being dealt
  9. Peralta's struggles

 

This team did very well for what it went through.

 

In a way, they did build on last year. They filled the holes pretty well. They have depth among the position players if they keep Grandal and Moose. If they keep Gio, Pomeranz, and Lyles, the pitching staff will be in good shape.

 

I'd rather deal with this than what the Cubs went through.

[Pugger]

As upset as I am about both Counsell and Hader, I’m trying to keep in mind that outside of Hiura’s double, the Brewers didn’t threaten the Nats whatsoever after the second inning.

 

And this isn't the first time that has happened this year. How many times have we been unable to tack on runs after early success?

[sveumrules]

Actually no. There were teams with better records that weren’t in the playoffs. So it depends on how you rank the teams. Luckily we played in a league were only 89 wins got you in

 

Actually no. There weren't teams with a better record with us, there was A single team.

 

The Cleveland Indians, who went 30-8 against the Royals & Tigers.

 

If we got to play 38 games against two 100+ loss teams, we might have won a few more games too.

 

Whatever dude. Your the semantic guy. I was just helping you out

 

But I will concede the point (despite not mentioning that some of these teams also play against 100 odd win teams while our division had the worst division champion) since you actually graduated to using context with data

 

That makes it infinitely more fun and useful to debate.

 

Wins by division (team totals) 1-5 diffetence...

 

ALE: 404 (103, 96, 84, 67, 54) 49

ALC: 372 (101, 93, 72, 59, 47) 54

ALW: 422 (107, 98, 77, 72, 68) 39

 

NLE: 414 (97, 93, 86, 81, 57) 40

NLC: 408 (91, 89, 84, 75, 69) 22

NLW: 409 (106, 85, 77, 71, 70) 36

 

Top to bottom, the AL Central was clearly the most lopsided division in baseball this year, while the NL Central was clearly the most evenly matched.

 

It's almost like the NLC being the most balanced & having the division winner with the fewest wins vs the AL having three 100+ win/100+ loss teams are somehow related.

 

Please feel free to add additional context, since I'm still catching on.

[Pugger]

I think the frustrating thing about Hader - and I'm not looking at stats to back this up - is that he seemed very much like a feast or famine guy this season. He either looked good and shut the door or blew up. It felt like if he went 2-0 on the leadoff batter or let a guy on base, that was it, he was giving it up. It's probably just selective memory, but that's what it felt like.

 

Last year, we all felt like when he came in, the other team was dead. This year, I doubt many of us had a ton of confidence when he took the mound. We knew he COULD be lights-out, but it felt like a coin flip if he WOULD be.

 

When you strike out half your batters and give up 15 home runs in 75 innings you're the definition of feast or famine. He is Russell Branyan as a pitcher.

 

Seemed like his success from outing to outing was contingent upon whether he could successfully throw his slider. Did he throw one in the 8th? How many of you felt your heart drop when his very first pitch was so wild.

 

I’m not ready to say he’s Turnbow 2, but Hader is on notice next season. The wildness, the feast or famine outings, the proclivity to cough up homers ... it’s troubling.

 

So perhaps he shouldn't be the sole closer in 2020. We should all hope Knebel returns to form next season. Having both the them will be so much better than what we had this year.

[Pugger]

So, now that the emotion in here has died down a bit I'll say this. I wouldn't have changed a thing. No way do I give Pom 3 innings when he just hasn't done that in his current role. No way I bring in Peralta or Lyles in the 8th when Hader was struggling. Would you feel confident? Peralta can be just as wild, and Lyles is not used to entering a game in that situation. You don't gamble. Hader had countless outings this year where he was wild and got the job done. He didn't this time, aided by a blown hbp call, broken bat blooper, and error.

 

He's not "done." Just not dominant this year. Still, he was the best chance to get through the 8th. He, among others, need to go to change-up school this offseason.

 

I'm with you about Peralta but why do you assume Lyles couldn't replicate what Strasburg did?