2019-10-01 (NL Wild Card Game): Brewers (Woodruff) at Nationals (Scherzer) 7:08 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 4-3 -- Nationals score 3 runs in 8th inning; Heartbreaking end to 2019]

[82brewcrew82]

The fact that the three best relievers were all lefties at the end is crazy. The lack of a righty to pitch the seventh was a killer. Last year Burnes was huge. His flameout is still the biggest killer of this season.

 

 

Knebel being hurt was.

Shaw, Chacin, Aguilar, Jeffress....................

[Pugger]

No where near as disappointing as last year. If Cain is really done as an effective hitter and no Grandal this is not going to go well. In my opinion.

 

Cain wasn't 100% for a while now. I hope we can keep Moose and Grandal in 2020. We need that veteran leadership IMO.

[The stache]

The game is clearly on a lot of people, first of all. Grisham, Hader, Counsell, the entire offense beyond two swings and the fans that don’t get why you can be ticked beyond belief at a season ending in a stupid way. What do you expect? 7 months of anticipation and oh no, I’m a little mad at the player that might not have loses the game, but gave up the lead according to the official score book?

 

Just stop saying it's on Grisham. Please, for the love of God. You're sounding like a broken record. If he fields that ball cleanly, it's at best a tie game, and there are two guys on with, what, one out? Grisham allowed the winning run to score with his misplay of the ball. Yes, it was a bad error. But you are way, way overstating how big an impact that had. He's a 22 year old kid. Brewers veterans-the guys being paid millions of dollars-could have done something...anything with RISP. They didn't. Again. And they went up there hacking in the top of the ninth, per usual with this team.

 

On the list of people to blame for this loss, Grisham is pretty far down the list. Hader blew it because he couldn't find the damned strike zone. When it became obvious to everybody in the park, and everybody watching the game, Hader was allowed to continue floundering instead of stalling for time, and getting another pitcher in there. Now, maybe another pitcher still loses it. But a change of pace from "96 fast ball. 97 fast ball. 97 fast ball", and, you know, a couple pitches that actually came within a mile of the strike zone, might have led to a different outcome.

 

Counsell made his mind up before the 8th that Hader was going two, win or lose. That was foolish. And then sending the worst hitter in baseball up to the plate with a runner (Cain) on helped kill a potential rally.

[willie key]

The fact that the three best relievers were all lefties at the end is crazy. The lack of a righty to pitch the seventh was a killer. Last year Burnes was huge. His flameout is still the biggest killer of this season.

 

 

Knebel being hurt was.

Shaw, Chacin, Aguilar, Jeffress....................

 

 

Nah. Thames was really good. Shaw sucking got hiura up here. Chacin. Who cares. Tons of starters replaced him. Jeffress maybe

 

Who cares about any of those guys. They didn’t matter in the long run anyways

[sveumrules]

As not OK as Hader might be (poor command, no second pitch) he was still 3rd in FIP based WAR, 7th in runs allowed based WAR & 10th in Win Probability Added this season among relievers.

 

I'll take a bullpen of eight guys that not OK, please.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

OldSchool usually has some solid takes. Hader being Turnbow and Jeffress is not one of them. If anything is learned from the Hader being the 9th inning closer only guy is that it shouldn’t be that way. He was very successful last year with coming in on matchup. Sign Pomeranz, get Knebel healthy and now you can get back to what worked in 2018.

 

Hader is a more highly touted prospect than both but it became obvious he isn't a good closer and CC insisted. In a do or die game like this I don't know for the life of me why he had to pigeonhole him into that role. I can justify it over an entire season using him in the spot to get the most wins but there was no way in hell I would have used him like that tonight after the episode in Colorado, against the meat of the order in a 2-run game, as much as he's struggled to keep the ball in the park.

 

Like I said, the result of Hader's appearance tonight was comically predictable, he should've entered that game in the 6th and his ass should have been on the bench with one guy on base.

 

Something wasn't right for the last week and everyone could tell except the guy making the decisions.

[Pugger]

Can somebody please explain to me why, with a guy on in the top of he ninth, down 4-3, with our season on the line, Craig Counsell sends Orlando Arcia, the worst hitter in baseball the past two seasons (based on 450 PA per season min) to the plate?

 

I'm not even going to get into the whole "leaving Hader in when it's clear he has absolutely no control" discussion. Arcia is a known entity. If you don't at least tie the game with those last three outs, Arcia's defense doesn't matter, because the game's over. Anybody else would have given us a better chance at either moving the base runner up, or driving him in.

 

IMO you have hit on the $1M question. What is this team's fascination with Arcia? The kid can't hit is way out of a paper bag. He can field but if you can't hit you are of no use to the ball club.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the frustrating thing about Hader - and I'm not looking at stats to back this up - is that he seemed very much like a feast or famine guy this season. He either looked good and shut the door or blew up. It felt like if he went 2-0 on the leadoff batter or let a guy on base, that was it, he was giving it up. It's probably just selective memory, but that's what it felt like.

 

Last year, we all felt like when he came in, the other team was dead. This year, I doubt many of us had a ton of confidence when he took the mound. We knew he COULD be lights-out, but it felt like a coin flip if he WOULD be.

 

When you strike out half your batters and give up 15 home runs in 75 innings you're the definition of feast or famine. He is Russell Branyan as a pitcher.

[82brewcrew82]

OldSchool usually has some solid takes. Hader being Turnbow and Jeffress is not one of them. If anything is learned from the Hader being the 9th inning closer only guy is that it shouldn’t be that way. He was very successful last year with coming in on matchup. Sign Pomeranz, get Knebel healthy and now you can get back to what worked in 2018.

 

Hader is a more highly touted prospect than both but it became obvious he isn't a good closer and CC insisted. In a do or die game like this I don't know for the life of me why he had to pigeonhole him into that role. I can justify it over an entire season using him in the spot to get the most wins but there was no way in hell I would have used him like that tonight after the episode in Colorado, against the meat of the order in a 2-run game, as much as he's struggled to keep the ball in the park.

 

Like I said, the result of Hader's appearance tonight was comically predictable, he should've entered that game in the 6th and his ass should have been on the bench with one guy on base.

 

Something wasn't right for the last week and everyone could tell except the guy making the decisions.

So your problem is actually with the manager?

[homer]

Food for thought...

 

Remember sometimes people are just venting....it's expected after that loss. You don't have to reply to someone letting off some steam.

[jason21nl]

I'll admit, part of me is a little relieved it's over. Been a stressful couple months in my household and this month is going to be very busy and tiring. I don't know how I could have dealt with a playoff run.

 

I still would've preferred a win, though.

 

This is how I feel too. No West coast games is nice too. Even though I don't know what the schedule is

[Pugger]

If you call yourself a brewers fan and all you can say is, “well we had a great run!”, you’re not a fan. You have zero emotion. Zero anger about how the game ended. You’re allowed to be pissed as hell at giving up the lead on a ball that literally a little leaguer would have nabbed...and yeah, Hader probably would’ve gotten the next out statically speaking

 

I don't think a guy ranting like you are here is in any position to be telling other fans how to behave.

[dlk9s]

To be fair to that guy that was a little league blunder by Grisham. I had no faith in hader getting out of it anyways. But Grisham does need to take some heat too.

 

Of course Grisham should get some blame for an error that let the winning run across.

 

As I said earlier, though, there is as difference between being mad at the person and being mad at the situation. I am disappointed that what happened happened, but I'm not going to be all pissed off at Grisham the person. He made an error. He was trying. The ball took an odd hop to his right and because he was too aggressive in his pursuit of the ball, he wasn't prepared to adjust. It's not like he was being lazy.

 

I don't get furious with athletes for failure. Guys screw up sometimes. They were trying their best and that was that. Doesn't mean I'm not sad that the Brewers lost and frustrated with the way it happened. Again, there's a difference between directing anger toward a person and directing anger toward the result.

[MrTPlush]

Incredible year by Hader being judged by two games. He was arguably just as good or better this year. He had some hiccups, but feast or famine....yah idk.

 

Hader was negatively perceived this year because of a poor team giving him way too many 1 run games to blow. He just had very little room for error all too much.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The manager doesn't throw the pitches. But sure, not Counsell's best game. Think he might have been in the clubhouse already when Arcia hit in the 9th.

[Lostpawn]

As upset as I am about both Counsell and Hader, I’m trying to keep in mind that outside of Hiura’s double, the Brewers didn’t threaten the Nats whatsoever after the second inning.

[82brewcrew82]

As upset as I am about both Counsell and Hader, I’m trying to keep in mind that outside of Hiura’s double, the Brewers didn’t threaten the Nats whatsoever after the second inning.

True, very much a team loss.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

OldSchool usually has some solid takes. Hader being Turnbow and Jeffress is not one of them. If anything is learned from the Hader being the 9th inning closer only guy is that it shouldn’t be that way. He was very successful last year with coming in on matchup. Sign Pomeranz, get Knebel healthy and now you can get back to what worked in 2018.

 

Hader is a more highly touted prospect than both but it became obvious he isn't a good closer and CC insisted. In a do or die game like this I don't know for the life of me why he had to pigeonhole him into that role. I can justify it over an entire season using him in the spot to get the most wins but there was no way in hell I would have used him like that tonight after the episode in Colorado, against the meat of the order in a 2-run game, as much as he's struggled to keep the ball in the park.

 

Like I said, the result of Hader's appearance tonight was comically predictable, he should've entered that game in the 6th and his ass should have been on the bench with one guy on base.

 

Something wasn't right for the last week and everyone could tell except the guy making the decisions.

 

This is a much more sane, reasonable take. I think Counsell fell into an old-school manager trap of "needing" to have a set 9th inning guy. For the most part it worked for the majority of the season, but it didn't tonight, in the biggest game of the year. And that sucks. If Counsell is worth his salt, he'll get away from the set 9th inning role for Hader next year, and turn him back into a matchup multi inning guy.

[Yolk]

Man, I came on here to read other fans thoughts about the game but stopped soon after because it sounded like a bunch of kids. Some of y’all need to chill. The team is better with both Hader and Grisham. Cheers to 2020.

[Pugger]

 

I don't disagree but he also threw under half of his pitches for strikes and generally just looked bad out there. Blaming Grisham (and giving Hader no blame) for giving the Nats the lead when Hader had already given the Nats at least a tie based on his poor pitching seems way over the top.

 

I think there are plenty of people in that locker room that can claim blame for this disappointing end.

[FVBrewerFan]

So, now that the emotion in here has died down a bit I'll say this. I wouldn't have changed a thing. No way do I give Pom 3 innings when he just hasn't done that in his current role. No way I bring in Peralta or Lyles in the 8th when Hader was struggling. Would you feel confident? Peralta can be just as wild, and Lyles is not used to entering a game in that situation. You don't gamble. Hader had countless outings this year where he was wild and got the job done. He didn't this time, aided by a blown hbp call, broken bat blooper, and error.

 

He's not "done." Just not dominant this year. Still, he was the best chance to get through the 8th. He, among others, need to go to change-up school this offseason.

[bucks2281]

I think the frustrating thing about Hader - and I'm not looking at stats to back this up - is that he seemed very much like a feast or famine guy this season. He either looked good and shut the door or blew up. It felt like if he went 2-0 on the leadoff batter or let a guy on base, that was it, he was giving it up. It's probably just selective memory, but that's what it felt like.

 

Last year, we all felt like when he came in, the other team was dead. This year, I doubt many of us had a ton of confidence when he took the mound. We knew he COULD be lights-out, but it felt like a coin flip if he WOULD be.

 

When you strike out half your batters and give up 15 home runs in 75 innings you're the definition of feast or famine. He is Russell Branyan as a pitcher.

 

Seemed like his success from outing to outing was contingent upon whether he could successfully throw his slider. Did he throw one in the 8th? How many of you felt your heart drop when his very first pitch was so wild.

 

I’m not ready to say he’s Turnbow 2, but Hader is on notice next season. The wildness, the feast or famine outings, the proclivity to cough up homers ... it’s troubling.

[Jaylyn]

Not the way I wanted to end, but all in all, this team did alot better than I anticipated at the beginning of the year. They made the playoffs, when i didn't think they could and did it with band-aids and sutures! There's alot to be addressed and alot to be proud of!

[willie key]

Incredible year by Hader being judged by two games. He was arguably just as good or better this year. He had some hiccups, but feast or famine....yah idk.

 

Hader was negatively perceived this year because of a poor team giving him way too many 1 run games to blow. He just had very little room for error all too much.

 

 

He gave up 15 freaking home runs. That is more than starters. And he choked away a division and knocked his team out of the playoffs in three days. That is terrible

 

I think it’s completely fair to rip,him tonight.

[treego14]

OldSchool usually has some solid takes. Hader being Turnbow and Jeffress is not one of them. If anything is learned from the Hader being the 9th inning closer only guy is that it shouldn’t be that way. He was very successful last year with coming in on matchup. Sign Pomeranz, get Knebel healthy and now you can get back to what worked in 2018.

 

Hader is a more highly touted prospect than both but it became obvious he isn't a good closer and CC insisted. In a do or die game like this I don't know for the life of me why he had to pigeonhole him into that role. I can justify it over an entire season using him in the spot to get the most wins but there was no way in hell I would have used him like that tonight after the episode in Colorado, against the meat of the order in a 2-run game, as much as he's struggled to keep the ball in the park.

 

Like I said, the result of Hader's appearance tonight was comically predictable, he should've entered that game in the 6th and his ass should have been on the bench with one guy on base.

 

Something wasn't right for the last week and everyone could tell except the guy making the decisions.

Great analysis!