Screw Joe Maddon [update 10/16: Maddon hired by Angels]

[TURBO]

Our fan base has enough experience over the years of playing meaningless games at this time ... if you have vets/stars who are chasing personal records or are in contention for major league leading stats .. they can play. But if they are hurting they sit and if you have youngsters who you want to get a look at for a series, now is the chance.

 

The Cubs aren't doing anything wrong.

 

Sadly, I agree with this statement.

[Yellin4Yelich]

Almost all the "A team" players are hurt so what maddon says really doesn't matter at all. If anything it helps motivate the B-team players to prove themselves; I'd be kind of pissed about that comment if I was Bote, Happ, Kemp, etc. I'd rather have players that are trying to prove something versus guys who have nothing to prove and are packing it up for the year. Alec Mills is pitching on Friday and has been pitching pretty good. Looks like Hamels is starting Saturday. No one announced for Sunday. I would love it if Darvish or Hendricks gets a start during the series but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[liveforoctober]

Furthermore, the Cubs who will be playing are going to play hard and to win. No competitor wants to watch the opposing team celebrate something against them. The Young Cubs or B Cubs or whatever you want to call them are going to compete. Let's just hope they can pull one out for us.

[TURBO]

I would love it if Darvish or Hendricks gets a start during the series but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

 

It was already announced that both of them have been shut down for the season.

[TURBO]

Let's just hope they can pull one out for us.

 

2 would be better...

[stalton]

I think most Brewer fans are more upset at the words of Maddon, then the actions. It certainly doesn't make sense to play injured players, but Maddon is saying that this is a middle fingers to the Brewers.

[wntrtxn21]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

I think you have drastically under estimated how much the cubs have already committed for 2020. They have over $150M committed to 14 players and that doesn't include Almora, Contreras (arby1), Baez (arby2 eligible/current salary $5.2M) - Schwarber(arby2 eligible/ current salary $3.4M) and Bryant (arby3 eligible/ current salary $13M). They also have Bach in the minors making $5M. With those guys the cubs payroll will easily be in the $190's.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

I think you have drastically under estimated how much the cubs have already committed for 2020. They have over $150M committed to 14 players and that doesn't include Almora, Contreras (arby1), Baez (arby2 eligible/current salary $5.2M) - Schwarber(arby2 eligible/ current salary $3.4M) and Bryant (arby3 eligible/ current salary $13M). They also have Bach in the minors making $5M. With those guys the cubs payroll will easily be in the $190's.

 

Exactly - lots of payroll coming off the books this year but most of it will be offset by raises to their own players...plus that still leaves them with holes all over their roster that need filling from outside their organization if they want to make any drastic improvements to their club's 2020 outlook, which would be expensive.

[MrTPlush]

Maddon is just saying he doesn't care what the Brewers think of how he manages his team for the series....it isn't like he said he was going to play his B squad to screw the Brewers.

[Brew crew 92]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

I think you have drastically under estimated how much the cubs have already committed for 2020. They have over $150M committed to 14 players and that doesn't include Almora, Contreras (arby1), Baez (arby2 eligible/current salary $5.2M) - Schwarber(arby2 eligible/ current salary $3.4M) and Bryant (arby3 eligible/ current salary $13M). They also have Bach in the minors making $5M. With those guys the cubs payroll will easily be in the $190's.

 

Which is why that have to re-tool. Imo, they have to trade some combination of Rizzo Baez Bryant Schwarber Contreras, for ML ready prospects and do a 1-2 year re-tool.

[tmwiese55]

Cubs are doing nothing wrong and I have no complaint. This happens every year all over the league.

 

But, I'd say he should've just done it. No need to talk like this to make it a story and just in general to be a jerk. And as some have said, I fully agree that if this was in the reverse and our manager said it then Joe would be the second one (after anyone Cards related) to talk about integrity and what's right for the game. Plus, Cubs fans would be making a big fuss complaining about it and how they're being screwed. Granted, I'm sure there is some faction of Brewers fans doing the same but I'd guess at a much lower clip than if in reverse.

[patrickgpe]

reports have surfaced today that he is done in Chicago, so its makes sense, why would he care about the cubs, cards or brewers when he won't be around next season.

 

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/09/27/rosenthal-its-a-a-fait-accompli-that-joe-maddon-will-not-be-back-as-cubs-manager/

 

Especially in the Phil Gardner days the brewers always made it a point to play their best possible lineup, no matter their record in Septemebr when they played a contender. I think that is how to do it, but I get that they are dealing with a bunch of injuries and want to see the younger players play, which I can't fault them for. Its just the way he stated it that irks me.

[RollieTime]

Cubs are doing nothing wrong and I have no complaint. This happens every year all over the league.

 

But, I'd say he should've just done it. No need to talk like this to make it a story and just in general to be a jerk. And as some have said, I fully agree that if this was in the reverse and our manager said it then Joe would be the second one (after anyone Cards related) to talk about integrity and what's right for the game. Plus, Cubs fans would be making a big fuss complaining about it and how they're being screwed. Granted, I'm sure there is some faction of Brewers fans doing the same but I'd guess at a much lower clip than if in reverse.

 

I have no issue with the Cubs doing this either. It was 100% Maddon just being a jerk and probably him being irritated with how they have performed down the stretch... Plus, he’s probably still a little bothered by us breaking their hearts last year and wants to, in a way, get back at us while making a public statement that is just making himself look like a tool.

[Jopal78]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

I think you have drastically under estimated how much the cubs have already committed for 2020. They have over $150M committed to 14 players and that doesn't include Almora, Contreras (arby1), Baez (arby2 eligible/current salary $5.2M) - Schwarber(arby2 eligible/ current salary $3.4M) and Bryant (arby3 eligible/ current salary $13M). They also have Bach in the minors making $5M. With those guys the cubs payroll will easily be in the $190's.

 

Exactly - lots of payroll coming off the books this year but most of it will be offset by raises to their own players...plus that still leaves them with holes all over their roster that need filling from outside their organization if they want to make any drastic improvements to their club's 2020 outlook, which would be expensive.

 

All I'm saying is don't count them out for a rapid rebound. Rizzo, Baez, Bryant and Contreras are all tops at their positions within the NL Central, and are top 5 in the league. Hendricks and Darvish are both really good pitchers and Quintana isn't bad either. They have 223 million in salary committed this year, but 116 committed for next year. Even with arbitration raises if they toe the line on total salary they'll have plenty of room to maneuver. As previously mentioned they have plenty of trade capital. Schwarber for his defensive short comings still averages 36 homers a season with an .827 OPS and comes with two more years of control. Caratini is a good player who won't be eligible for arbitration until 2021, David Bote is versatile and can swing the bat can be controlled through through 2026 etc. etc.

 

The Cubs failure this year has a lot of causes, one of the primary ones is luck. Their record in One Run Games: 19-27 (FWIW the Brewers record in One Run Games: 27-16). They also have 10 "Walk Off" losses (Again the Brewers have 4). I am enjoying the autopsy of the 2019 Cubs so far, but I don't think that Theo/the Cubs are in any way 'over'.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I don't care who the Cubs play these next three games. I think the weird part of the quote is Maddon's assumption that we'd complain. Personally, I think it's funny, but he could have just said "guys are hurt, it isn't worth it" or whatever, and instead he wanted to get a weird dig in.

 

As an earlier poster said, shows how much the Brewers burned the Cubs the last two years.

 

Edit: absent-minded cuss filter activation.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Cub fans may think they have alot if trade capital, but unless they want to try to sell high on Hoerner or risk dealing low level prospects that could blossom into studs they really dont. Schwarber has very limited trade value, because he's a DH with marginal team control remaining. Every organization has bote and caratini level players, they are basically Hernan Perez after they are in mlb for awhile.

 

Take a closer look at the cub bullpen rankings in high leverage, one run game situations and you'll see their poor record in those spots isnt just bad luck. They are a talented but poorly constructed roster that has weaknesses in critical areas that stand out in tight ballgames. They tried to address that by signing kimbrel midseason for 3 years and it basically blew up in their faces.

[bjkrautk]

I'm just impressed Maddon seems to have found a 9-man lineup of players who haven't already quit; you wouldn't know it from the remainder of the month.

[Jopal78]

Cub fans may think they have alot if trade capital, but unless they want to try to sell high on Hoerner or risk dealing low level prospects that could blossom into studs they really dont. Schwarber has very limited trade value, because he's a DH with marginal team control remaining. Every organization has bote and caratini level players, they are basically Hernan Perez after they are in mlb for awhile.

 

Take a closer look at the cub bullpen rankings in high leverage, one run game situations and you'll see their poor record in those spots isnt just bad luck. They are a talented but poorly constructed roster that has weaknesses in critical areas that stand out in tight ballgames. They tried to address that by signing kimbrel midseason for 3 years and it basically blew up in their faces.

 

Schwaber's OPS of .864 this year would be among the top 25 of ALL hitters in the American League. 2nd among DH's behind Nelson Cruz. His 37 homers would be good for 6th overall in the AL as well. This characterization that the Cubs have a collection of bad players etc. just isn't true. Like a lot of teams, they have really good talent on their roster and didn't play well in 2019, after not playing well down the stretch in 2018, which is why Maddon will be elsewhere next year.

[tmwiese55]

Generally agree with Jopal. Cubs still have a ton of talent. They have one massive achilles heal with their bullpen, fix that and they could still be a huge threat. And as we saw first hand, you don't neeeed to spend a ton of money to fix a pen. Need some breaks and luck, but it can be done. That said, obviously they're facing a lot of decisions on starting pitching this offseason. I was speaking in general on the current team.

 

For Schwarber, yea DH is best but there's probably a chance he can play some 1B at competent level if traded.

[MrTPlush]

Their poor 1 run record and walk off results aren’t bad luck. It is called trash pen.

 

And unless Kimbrel becomes his old self I doubt it see ls massive improvement. Can only waste so much money on the pen.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Other than Bryant, Rizzo and Heyward, who are all various degrees of hurt, Maddon is trotting out his regular lineup tonight. They've shut down Darvish, which is kind of a bummer, but in the end, no, nothing to see here.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Cub fans may think they have alot if trade capital, but unless they want to try to sell high on Hoerner or risk dealing low level prospects that could blossom into studs they really dont. Schwarber has very limited trade value, because he's a DH with marginal team control remaining. Every organization has bote and caratini level players, they are basically Hernan Perez after they are in mlb for awhile.

 

Take a closer look at the cub bullpen rankings in high leverage, one run game situations and you'll see their poor record in those spots isnt just bad luck. They are a talented but poorly constructed roster that has weaknesses in critical areas that stand out in tight ballgames. They tried to address that by signing kimbrel midseason for 3 years and it basically blew up in their faces.

 

Schwaber's OPS of .864 this year would be among the top 25 of ALL hitters in the American League. 2nd among DH's behind Nelson Cruz. His 37 homers would be good for 6th overall in the AL as well. This characterization that the Cubs have a collection of bad players etc. just isn't true. Like a lot of teams, they have really good talent on their roster and didn't play well in 2019, after not playing well down the stretch in 2018, which is why Maddon will be elsewhere next year.

 

Maybe I'm just not seeing eye to eye in what you view the Cubs needing to get bang for their buck in terms of trading players currently on their MLB roster and actually winding up improving their talent level. If they were to deal Schwarber for example, what's a realistic target or return in your mind? Also, if they deal him they're removing that 0.864 OPS and 40HR potential from their lineup, so I'd be curious knowing what combo of moves makes them a better team with him off it? If they are willing to offer Schwarber up for a package of prospects, he could probably net them a decent return. But if he's the centerpiece of a trade that brings back MLB talent I just don't see it being for impact pitching or for a corner OF that is going to be a significant upgrade overall to their team.

 

I never said these guys were trash players - my argument is what they have left on the MLB roster isn't ideal for making impactful trades unless they want to totally revamp their approach and basically restart another rebuild. They are more likely to get the most value out of them by keeping them around unless they want to take the 2020 season off from trying to contend and retool. I doubt that's what their path forward will be, but it probably would be their best option for seasons 2021-2024.

[trwi7]

Other than Bryant, Rizzo and Heyward, who are all various degrees of hurt, Maddon is trotting out his regular lineup tonight. They've shut down Darvish, which is kind of a bummer, but in the end, no, nothing to see here.

 

Yeah, no problem with the lineup. Baez has a broken hand or something, Bryant got hurt on a wet base and Rizzo came back early against the Cardinals from a sprained ankle. This is a whole lot of nothing.

 

It even makes sense to sit Darvish after pitching nearly 180 innings this year after only pitching 40 due to various arm injuries last year.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't care who the Cubs play these next three games. I think the weird part of the quote is Maddon's assumption that we'd complain. Personally, I think it's funny, but he could have just said "guys are hurt, it isn't worth it" or whatever, and instead he wanted to get a weird dig in.

 

As an earlier poster said, shows how much the Brewers burned the Cubs the last two years.

 

Edit: absent-minded cuss filter activation.

 

Why would he assume we'd complain? It's not like there is a rivalry between us and them.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't care who the Cubs play these next three games. I think the weird part of the quote is Maddon's assumption that we'd complain. Personally, I think it's funny, but he could have just said "guys are hurt, it isn't worth it" or whatever, and instead he wanted to get a weird dig in.

 

As an earlier poster said, shows how much the Brewers burned the Cubs the last two years.

 

Edit: absent-minded cuss filter activation.

 

Why would he assume we'd complain? It's not like there is a rivalry between us and them.

 

Probably a dig at rainout gate from last year or whenever that was.