Screw Joe Maddon [update 10/16: Maddon hired by Angels]

[trwi7]

Bryant, Rizzo and Baez are hurt. There's no reason to play them and risk further injury that might impact games next year that will matter. If the Brewers wanted to win the division or have home field, they should've played better to the point where they didn't need to win 18 of 20 to even get to the playoffs.

 

That’s all fair, but the point that if the shoe was on the other foot, Maddon would be torching the Brewers is likely accurate.

 

Sure, he's a hypocritical douche. I guess I just don't see why we should care what he says or does.

[AKCheesehead]

As said if they’re hurt, fine sit them.

 

In general you have to still try to win.

 

Skube I don’t want to have an argument. But it definitely is a thing that you try in these situations. For example when your team is toast and you’re giving your call ups a try this time of year like often happens, when you play a game versus someone with playoff implications you probably play your best roster.

 

It’s etiquette or an unwritten rule, whatever you want to call it. A year or more down the road the shoe could be on the other foot and you’ll expect the same from others.

 

Again not saying Maddon should play hurt guys. But he definitely has to try to win.

[Eye Black]

It’s amazing how fast and far the Cubs have fallen. I am not convinced it really matters who they put out there at this point. I almost feel a little bit sorry for them, but then I just remember how utterly obnoxious members of their fan base were at Miller Park this year.

[rickh150]

It’s amazing how fast and far the Cubs have fallen. I am not convinced it really matters who they put out there at this point. I almost feel a little bit sorry for them, but then I just remember how utterly obnoxious members of their fan base were at Miller Park this year.

 

Just This year? Sorry for them?

[Jopal78]

You all realize the Cubs have lost 9 in a row playing all their starters. Now all the players are checked out; so it doesn’t really matter who plays over the weekend; they all just want it to be over at this point Maddon included.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You all realize the Cubs have lost 9 in a row playing all their starters. Now all the players are checked out; so it doesn’t really matter who plays over the weekend; they all just want it to be over at this point Maddon included.

 

I would bet that the vast majority of those younger guys like Caratini, Bote, Kemp and the rest don't feel that way. I'm personally glad its going to be those guys carrying the torch this weekend. Energy guys with no expectations can be very dangerous.

[bucks2281]

It’s amazing how fast and far the Cubs have fallen. I am not convinced it really matters who they put out there at this point. I almost feel a little bit sorry for them, but then I just remember how utterly obnoxious members of their fan base were at Miller Park this year.

 

As early as 2017, some posters here speculated that the Cubs cashed in their chips too early and were headed for a quicker than expected decline. Cubs fans on Twitter and other boards caught wind of those posts and mocked those posters. Well, here we are. Next year will be very interesting.

 

As for this weekend, I have a feeling the Cubs win twice.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It’s amazing how fast and far the Cubs have fallen. I am not convinced it really matters who they put out there at this point. I almost feel a little bit sorry for them, but then I just remember how utterly obnoxious members of their fan base were at Miller Park this year.

 

As early as 2017, some posters here speculated that the Cubs cashed in their chips too early and were headed for a quicker than expected decline. Cubs fans on Twitter and other boards caught wind of those posts and mocked those posters. Well, here we are. Next year will be very interesting.

 

As for this weekend, I have a feeling the Cubs win twice.

 

Health permitting, the Cubs' line-up will be very formidable next year. Bryant, Rizzo, and Baez are legit superstars. They can fill in solid role players around them.

 

It's their pitching that is a huge question mark. Other than Darvish and Hendricks, they don't have much of anything coming back.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It’s amazing how fast and far the Cubs have fallen. I am not convinced it really matters who they put out there at this point. I almost feel a little bit sorry for them, but then I just remember how utterly obnoxious members of their fan base were at Miller Park this year.

 

As early as 2017, some posters here speculated that the Cubs cashed in their chips too early and were headed for a quicker than expected decline. Cubs fans on Twitter and other boards caught wind of those posts and mocked those posters. Well, here we are. Next year will be very interesting.

 

As for this weekend, I have a feeling the Cubs win twice.

 

Health permitting, the Cubs' line-up will be very formidable next year. Bryant, Rizzo, and Baez are legit superstars. They can fill in solid role players around them.

 

It's their pitching that is a huge question mark. Other than Darvish and Hendricks, they don't have much of anything coming back.

 

 

I believe Darvish may be able to opt out, and considering the roll he has been on of late he may do just that.

 

The problem for the cubs is their pitching is largely old and expensive, and their lack of depth leaves some big holes for 2020. They've thrown money and prospects at that hole, but they're out of prospects and many of their young position players are now well into arbitration. The money they have definitely coming off the books is going to largely be chewed up by arby raises.

 

They still have talent, but it's no longer enough for them to be considered obvious division title contenders until we see what this offseason brings for them.

[Pugger]

It’s amazing how fast and far the Cubs have fallen. I am not convinced it really matters who they put out there at this point. I almost feel a little bit sorry for them, but then I just remember how utterly obnoxious members of their fan base were at Miller Park this year.

 

Yup. All of this couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch. If this is the beginning of the end for them all the better.

[brooks_quichenick]

The Iowa Cubs will certainly give a better effort than the guys who just laid down and gave up for the last 2 weeks, so I’m on board with it.

[anglotiger]

LOL... so much for the Cubs hating the Cardinals with a passion. The next time that you hear any Cubs fan saying that, you now have something to tease them with...

 

I look at it this way - It doesn't feel like the pitching staff has been nearly as good as last year's staff was, and I didn't even expect them to be in a position to make the playoffs at the end of August. Then they lost Yelich - a legitimate candidate for back-to-back MVPs - and I thought "oh well - they did a lot better than I expected, given the pitching". But, instead of folding like... well, the Cubs... they caught fire and made it into the playoffs. Whatever happens in the playoffs, this season has been a success in my book.

 

As for who the Cubs decide to trot out there, as Maddon continues his farewell tour, it barely matters to me - the Cubs fans can jealously watch the Brewers in the playoffs again (even if it ends up only being one game) and dream of how much more money they're going to have spend in order to get past the Brewers and become relevant again.

[BrewFan130]

Yeah, I don’t feel the least bit sorry for the Cubs and especially their fan base. After wining the WS in 2016 their fans became the biggest A :holes in baseball. You would’ve thought they had won the WS 3 years straight and had 10 other rings to go along with ‘em.

 

I would think the Cubs would be pushing hard to win their last 3 in St. Louis. After all, it was the Cards that swept them in 4 at Wrigley and essentially nocked them out of the playoffs. I’d think it’d be their goal to return the favor to Cards and cost them the division. Of course the Brewers have to get it done in Colorado, which taking 3 in that park is not easy.

[danzig6767]

It's gonna be so annoying when all we needed was 1 cub win out of 7 games to win the division and not get it.(just saying this now to jinx it)

Sports can be hard to figure sometimes.

 

When Kimbrel was imploding vs the Cardinals, i was really happy because i thought the Wild Card was the by far best route to making the playoffs. Division looked largely out of reach.

 

Fast forward to today, if Kimbrel just converts one of those saves, the Brewers are tied for first with the Cardinals.

[liveforoctober]

Our fan base has enough experience over the years of playing meaningless games at this time ... if you have vets/stars who are chasing personal records or are in contention for major league leading stats .. they can play. But if they are hurting they sit and if you have youngsters who you want to get a look at for a series, now is the chance.

 

The Cubs aren't doing anything wrong.

[Jopal78]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

[Brew crew 92]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

Or, Theo & co are gone, and the new GM re-tools. Ricketts is not happy.

[Jopal78]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

Or, Theo & co are gone, and the new GM re-tools. Ricketts is not happy.

 

Epstein has 2 years left and is the highest paid executive in baseball. I don’t think theyd pay him to sit home for 2 years, especially when his team is a major disappointment yet still finishes with a winning record.

 

Theo will do what he does best, sign a bunch of free agents then trade for Corey Kluber or someone of that ilk

[Outlander]

I think the Cubs will put up a good effort Saturday. Hamels is looking to end the season on a high note and get paid in free agency. Has made comments he wants to stay in the NL Central so will want to impress the Cubs, Cardinals and perhaps even the Brewers.

[Eye Black]

From The Ringer (Zach Kram) with analysis of “what went wrong”...

 

The Cubs’ Postseason Dreams Are Over—and So Is Their Would-Be Dynasty

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

Or, Theo & co are gone, and the new GM re-tools. Ricketts is not happy.

 

Epstein has 2 years left and is the highest paid executive in baseball. I don’t think theyd pay him to sit home for 2 years, especially when his team is a major disappointment yet still finishes with a winning record.

 

Theo will do what he does best, sign a bunch of free agents then trade for Corey Kluber or someone of that ilk

 

It's more likely Theo bolts for greener pastures after this season than gets fired...like Boston - or he decides to get out of the MLB front office game and pursue something else in life.

 

Schwarber and Happ are no longer nice pieces to trade, either - one hits alot of bombs but shouldn't be anywhere near a glove and he's well into arbitration. The other spent most of this year in AAA because he doesn't make contact nearly enough. Those were nice pieces to trade 2-3 offseasons ago - instead to make room for them playing everyday Theo and company traded Soler (45HR in 2019) and Jimenez (30 HR as a rookie despite missing time with injury) when they were shopping for pitching help.

 

The Cubs built their world series roster off intentionally being terrible for the first half of Theo's tenure and lucked into turning Arrieta into a pitching monster for 2 seasons and found a way to win despite their manager horribly orchestrating their 2016 bullpen - 3 years ago everything about the organization personnelwise appeared to indicate they would be dominant well beyond 2020 just with their 2016 core. Well, fast forward and their best player (Bryant) is still really good but is breaking down with shoulder/knee ailments and is no longer an MVP-caliber talent, Baez remains flashy and really good but about to get expensive, Rizzo remains great but his best years are likely behind him, Contreras had a great season but also has had his injury concerns, and the rest of the young group of position players haven't developed into the perennial all stars they were once perceived to be.

 

A team like the Astros built their organization similarly, but they are much more well positioned for longterm success. Their minor league system is still highly regarded despite using it for multiple trades and their MLB roster is loaded top to bottom without having an insanely high payroll.

[Brew crew 92]

The Cubs will be back next year. I would expect Epstein to go hard after Pomeranz to add a power lefty to their pen. They have tons of contracts expiring which will give them room to sign even more free agents: Hamels, zobrist, Morrow, cishek, kintzler etc. they also have some nice pieces to trade if they go that route : Schwarber, Happ, etc

 

Or, Theo & co are gone, and the new GM re-tools. Ricketts is not happy.

 

Epstein has 2 years left and is the highest paid executive in baseball. I don’t think theyd pay him to sit home for 2 years, especially when his team is a major disappointment yet still finishes with a winning record.

 

Theo will do what he does best, sign a bunch of free agents then trade for Corey Kluber or someone of that ilk

 

242 million spent including taxes for ~ 83 wins with a old pitching staff, ridiculously inconsistent offense, no farm, tons of arby raises and an angry owner, who was made to look like a cheapskate because of theo’s payroll and not wanting to spend more to be taxed. Theo then convincing Ricketts to spend on Kimbrel, imo, is the last straw. I predict he eats the 20 million.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I have no big problem with this.

 

I do think it is pretty funny how pecota picked the Cubs 3rd place and everyone went crazy at how stupid they are. Cubs ending in 3rd place.

 

LOL - I do remember that now...Pecota actually had them finishing 80-82. They were off by a pair of wins to date, but personally I hope Pecota is really wrong and they somehow win up with 83 or 84....but it's still hilarious considering all the Spring Training articles mocking that projection.

[Brew crew 92]

Bryant, Rizzo and Baez are hurt. There's no reason to play them and risk further injury that might impact games next year that will matter. If the Brewers wanted to win the division or have home field, they should've played better to the point where they didn't need to win 18 of 20 to even get to the playoffs.

 

Agree.

All teams should be able to do what they want, without another team saying a word. I don’t get ragging on Madden. The man has class.

[MrTPlush]

End of the day Theo Epstein built a winner, a World Series winner and a team that went to the NLCS 3 years. He has three World Series rings to his name. He rebuild of the Chicago Cubs was nothing short of impressive regardless of how much they tanked for high picks....you still have to hit with those picks. The Brewers will tell you how hard that is. Everyone will mention how anyone can run a high payroll to success/World Series, but that simply is just wrong. It may be easier and allow more room for error, but it still takes a lot

 

Did he kind of ruin the "dynasty"? No, I don't think so. Looking at it I don't think he could have done things differently to keep the predicted dynasty going. HOWEVER, I do think he did a pretty solid job ruining their sustainability of success/being a yearly force. I think they got a bit too focused on trying to 'win now' and getting that second championship. Jose Quintana just started a downward spiral of iffy moves, their success started to decline, and they just pressed more.

 

Their downfall can be summarized very simply: They refused to have an off/down year and quickly started making too many poor moves. They should be glad the end of this year is ending in complete disaster instead of ending up one game out of the postseason. If that had happened they probably would have just kept pressing poor and risky moves this winter. They need to take a step back and think more logically.