Game 3: Broncos @ Packers - Sunday, Sept 22nd Noon CT

[FVBrewerFan]

After these 3 games two things are clear. 1)This is a playoff team again. 2) The defense is definitely improved. But, to be fair, we don't know how much better yet. I see lots of people saying we can't judge the offense because they faces 3 really good defensive units. That's true. But isn't the same true for the Packers defense? They haven't exactly played 3 explosive offenses. We just don't know yet if this is a team that can make the SB and beat the Patriots. Dallas will be the first big test.

 

I mean if we're expecting this defense to shut down Patrick Mahomes that is just not going to happen. Best we can hope is to slow them down and hope the offense is clicking enough by that point to win a 34-31 type game, which I do think is possible.

 

But it's still clearly massively improved. While we haven't faced a top 3 offense, we haven't been feasting on the Dolphins or Jets, either. Neither the Broncos or even Bears have a "bad" offense IMO, and I'd go as far as to say the Vikings look awfully dangerous offensively. Cook is probably one of the top RBs in the league and they have really good weapons at WR in Diggs and Thielen.

 

That's my point. If winning in a shoot-out is the only way they can beat a team like the Chiefs, Pats, Rams, Cowboys, etc. then the defense is no different than any other year. If the best you can hope for is holding any team to 31 points, that' not very impressive.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I agree and think 31 is a pretty crappy goal. In a weird twist, a crappy Chiefs team was the one that showed the NFL how to slow down the 2011 Packers.

 

Mahomes will get his yards against the Packers, but we need a defense that can force a couple turnovers and bend but keep them in the 21-27 range. If we have to score 48 to win, we are the same team.

 

I don't anticipate winning that game; we certainly could, but what I'm really watching for in that game is do we slow them down at all, do we compete. If we lose something like 23-20 that will be good enough for me to know we can take care of them or another top offense later if need be.

[adambr2]

I guess my point was that Mahomes is that good and can probably put up 31 on anyone including the Bears. I don't think the defense is the same as any other year.

 

31 was just a number I threw out there. Could they win 24-20? Sure, maybe. They aren't going to hold him to 14 for 32 passing with 1 TD and 2 picks, he'll get his, was all I was saying. I wouldn't really be worried about what the final score was if we won in Kansas City, that would be a major accomplishment. Point totals often need context anyway -- they could allow a punt return TD and turn the ball over near their own goal line leading to 7 and the 31 points allowed would be pretty misleading.

[FVBrewerFan]

Just own the 31 points comment, I mean it's a really small thing to wear. I get what you're saying though, it's not like shutting out the Chiefs or Cowboys is necessary to prove the defense is really good. Nobody is going to do that.

 

In the NFL, I always judge a defense by turnovers, red zone defense, and closing out a game. I want to see if they can do those things against really good offenses. Don't get me wrong though, no doubt this defense is better than years past, we'll soon find out how much better.

[adambr2]

Just own the 31 points comment, I mean it's a really small thing to wear.

 

Huh???

 

I realize what I said, I never denied it, I was clarifying what I was saying -- that no defense IMO is good enough to stop Mahomes and whatever they actually score depends on various game factors.

 

I do think there's a chance they could shut down the Cowboys, I'm not sold on them.

[HiAndTight]

I guess my point was that Mahomes is that good and can probably put up 31 on anyone including the Bears. I don't think the defense is the same as any other year.

 

31 was just a number I threw out there. Could they win 24-20? Sure, maybe. They aren't going to hold him to 14 for 32 passing with 1 TD and 2 picks, he'll get his, was all I was saying. I wouldn't really be worried about what the final score was if we won in Kansas City, that would be a major accomplishment. Point totals often need context anyway -- they could allow a punt return TD and turn the ball over near their own goal line leading to 7 and the 31 points allowed would be pretty misleading.

 

 

I think they still could use one more CB if they want to take one more step as a defense. Right now they've got two really good cover corners, one great one...potentially in Alexander.

 

Jalen Ramsey was/is really a pipe dream, but Patrick Peterson is going to be traded by the Cards when he gets back. At least that's pretty much what both sides have said. He wants to play for a contender, the Cards aren't close to being that. He's not gonna cost a 1st round pick, probably a 4th or so. And he was still elite last year.

 

If you get Raven Greene back, add PPat for a year(or two)....and you see Gary and Kingsley keep improving, this could be a good enough defense to slow Mahomes down enough to beat them. I don't know what you can hope to hold him to...it seems like ever WR'er they have runs a 4.2-something, but they don't have a great defense.

 

I think the Cowboys will be just as big of a test for us. We struggled a bit vs the Vikings run game and Dallas has a better OL and more not as explosive of a back, but one that wears your D down play after play.

[areacodes]

To me, it looked like when Lindsay was stood up, Dalton Risner - a guy I wanted the Packers to draft - grabbed Lindsay and ripped him right from Lowry and pulled him into the end zone. I thought it was Risner making a great play more than anything.

 

Exactly what happened. Linsday's great effort got him to the half yard line, but it was Risner that should get credit for getting him across.

 

And that is supposed to be a 10 yard penalty...

[HiAndTight]

To me, it looked like when Lindsay was stood up, Dalton Risner - a guy I wanted the Packers to draft - grabbed Lindsay and ripped him right from Lowry and pulled him into the end zone. I thought it was Risner making a great play more than anything.

 

Exactly what happened. Linsday's great effort got him to the half yard line, but it was Risner that should get credit for getting him across.

 

And that is supposed to be a 10 yard penalty...

 

 

Yeah, that's one of those penalties that I don't think I've ever seen enforced. At least not in a while. The rule's the same in College, the only place I've seen it enforced and even ND fans weren't really complaining after that Leinart QB sneak where Bush came up and pushed him into the Endzone.

[HiAndTight]

To me, it looked like when Lindsay was stood up, Dalton Risner - a guy I wanted the Packers to draft - grabbed Lindsay and ripped him right from Lowry and pulled him into the end zone. I thought it was Risner making a great play more than anything.

 

Exactly what happened. Linsday's great effort got him to the half yard line, but it was Risner that should get credit for getting him across.

 

And that is supposed to be a 10 yard penalty...

 

 

Yeah, that's one of those penalties that I don't think I've ever seen enforced. At least not in a while. The rule's the same in College, the only place I've seen it enforced and even ND fans weren't really complaining after that Leinart QB sneak where Bush came up and pushed him into the Endzone.

[areacodes]

 

Exactly what happened. Linsday's great effort got him to the half yard line, but it was Risner that should get credit for getting him across.

 

And that is supposed to be a 10 yard penalty...

 

 

Yeah, that's one of those penalties that I don't think I've ever seen enforced. At least not in a while. The rule's the same in College, the only place I've seen it enforced and even ND fans weren't really complaining after that Leinart QB sneak where Bush came up and pushed him into the Endzone.

 

I agree that it is seldom, if not never, enforced, but that was about as blatant of an example of that as I can recall. The lineman literally pulled him from the DL’s arms and threw him into the endzone.

[HiAndTight]

I agree that it is seldom, if not never, enforced, but that was about as blatant of an example of that as I can recall. The lineman literally pulled him from the DL’s arms and threw him into the endzone.

 

 

I guess I'd have to go back and see it, but I do NOT think people are giving nearly enough credit to Lindsay on that play. That's a tough back who made a GREAT play there. That Risner may have helped him, he didn't pull him away from Lowry, I think he was kinda starting to go down after spinning away from Lowry and Risner caught him and then as Lindsay spinned he helped push him into the endzone. I still haven't watched a replay of the play, so I'm not absolutely positive, but that was my recollection.

 

-----Edit-Damn....you're absolutely right. He literally did just grab him and throw him into the endzone. That's a 5 point suplay in Wrestling(speaking of which, everyone needs to google Chris Taylor Suplay on Youtube. Chris Taylor was about 420 pounds wrestling a guy 200 pounds less than him. Just an incredible video.

 

Anyway, you were 100 pct right. I do think Lindsay did a great job, but Amos would have had to have stopped both Risner and Lindsay's progress on that play and that wasn't gonna happen. Clark needs to hang on to that leg there. He was a former wrestler. Shouldn't be that hard for him.

 

 

This all kinda stems from a larger point which was that the Packers did not tackle great vs the Bronco's. That was true. There were too many times when the Packers had a guy bottled up and instead of stopping the guy, it seemed like too many guys were trying to rake the ball out rather than the first guy or two just wrapping up and then the 3rd guy coming in trying to rip the ball out, ala Clay Matthews 2007(?) vs the Vikings when he stole the ball from Adrian Peterson.

 

 

But they've shown they can tackle, it just feels like they got a little too greedy trying to get another takeaway.