Game 3: Broncos @ Packers - Sunday, Sept 22nd Noon CT

[jjfanec]

The takeaways have us 3-0 rather than 1-2 maybe, 0-3. They really have been the difference in the season. That and the best punter in the league.

 

It isnt just the takeaways. It is that they dont turn the ball over. How many have they had this year? 1?

[pacopete4]

HiAndTight, I know you love what you are seeing but who on the offensive side of the ball has you thinking that this offense will be good? Really, Davante Adams and Aaron Jones are really the only things they have going for them. They have ZERO tight ends worth mentioning. Their 2-3-4+ WR's are just guys. I just have a hard time believing this offense is going to be all that good. Maybe they will be a bit more consistent, but top tier? Can't see it.

[pacopete4]

The takeaways have us 3-0 rather than 1-2 maybe, 0-3. They really have been the difference in the season. That and the best punter in the league.

 

It isnt just the takeaways. It is that they dont turn the ball over. How many have they had this year? 1?

 

Good point. Very good point actually. Rodgers hasn't been selfish when things are not going well and he's lived to play another series. It's paid off for them so far.

[nodakfan17]

I see Patrick Mahomes throwing 4 TDs a game and I’ll be the first to admit I’m jealous. I really miss those days.

 

Somewhat related - I don’t think we appreciate the receiving quartet of Nelson, Jennings, Driver, and Jones enough. Those guys were good.

[HiAndTight]

Reading through this thread after the fact and you’d never know this was a win where the Packers never trailed.

 

 

I can understand some frustration....but I never felt nervous about the Bronco's coming back. They have good players. That TD that Lidsay scored, that wasn't a poor effort by the defense. That was a great effort by the defense. It was just an incredible effort by the RB. Clark crossed his mans face, and just couldn't hold onto his leg/foot as he was going to the ground, Lowry stood his man up, but he's still engaged as he's trying to bring Lindsay down...

 

 

The Packers have trailed for about 5-6 minutes this entire season. They lead Minnesota wire to wire, led the Bronco's wire to wire(the team that should have beat the 12-4 Bears last week)....they're 3-0 going into a home game on Thursday night vs the Eagles. A game that should be tough, but is just brutal for the road team.

 

This is as encouraged I've been as a Packer fan for a long time. If I had to really nitpick area's of the team I wish were a bit better, I'd say I wish we had a better slot WR'er. A guy who's a little quicker and can create that immediate separation...and maybe get Raven Greene or a good 3rd safety who can play in the box.

 

Other than that, this team is talented, they're undefeated and they're almost certainly ascending. And I would not be surprised to see Gute go out and add talent at the deadline. Ramsey was really a fantastical idea, but someone like Patrick Peterson sure isn't. A vet who is likely to be traded and could be had for a ~4th round pick and who has a relatively cheap cap number this year of 7 million. Or whoever, that's not really the point, the point is, this team looks good and the Front Office is aggressive and seems willing to go and add to a strength, something I always love seeing. Especially in the secondary.

 

 

This are good in Packerland right now...and as long as they don't suffer a spate of injuries, there's little reason to expect them to do anything but continually improve the rest of the year.

[HiAndTight]

HiAndTight, I know you love what you are seeing but who on the offensive side of the ball has you thinking that this offense will be good? Really, Davante Adams and Aaron Jones are really the only things they have going for them. They have ZERO tight ends worth mentioning. Their 2-3-4+ WR's are just guys. I just have a hard time believing this offense is going to be all that good. Maybe they will be a bit more consistent, but top tier? Can't see it.

 

 

They have an elite offensive line. They Jenkins is finally starting.

I think you're ridiculously wrong when you say they have ZERO Tight Ends worth mentioning. They have Robert Tonyan who's got as much talent at that position as anyone we've had since Finley.

 

I don't believe MVS is is "just a a guy." So I just reject this entire premise.

 

 

But you start off by saying, other than, and include a young RB that was rated as the 7th best heading into the season by PFF, a guy who averaged 5.5 yards the last two years. A historically GREAT, not just good QB. Davante Adams, an elite #1 WR'er....

Oh yeah, and they have probably the best pass blocking tackles in the NFL and one of the best centers in the league.

 

So yeah, I don't agree with the assessment of the talent of some of the players or how your question is framed. It's framed as though this is a baseball team and you're listing a lineup....hitters 1-9....as if one position doesn't impact the other.

 

You see the offenses upside when you see how they play early in games. When they're running scripted plays, when they're running the plays they're comfortable with. That seems like a pretty obvious indication to me that this offense is just a work in progress.

 

I'd certainly like to see a Greg Jennings type player. I think he'd be incredibly helpful. But they have plenty of talent at WR'er.

[HiAndTight]

I see Patrick Mahomes throwing 4 TDs a game and I’ll be the first to admit I’m jealous. I really miss those days.

 

Somewhat related - I don’t think we appreciate the receiving quartet of Nelson, Jennings, Driver, and Jones enough. Those guys were good.

 

 

 

Well, everyone Packer fan would tout how we had the best receiving core in the NFL during that time period, so I think we appreciated them at the time. I think now fans certainly still rave about Nelson and Driver specifically as two all time fan-favorites. Jones as well, but a little less. And then most just chalk up Jennings, the smoothest, most natural route runner and athlete among the four as someone who was only good because Packers QB's made him good...but that's largely because of how he left.

 

 

But yeah, Mahomes is incredible and he's got guys running 4.2-something 40's out there running routes for him. But he's also in a system he's perfectly comfortable with.

 

But if you go back to the Super Bowl season, Nelson was not yet established. He put up numbers almost identical to what Valdes-Scantling put up LAST season. That was Nelson's 3rd year in the league and MVS's rookie year.

Jones numbers weren't much better while Allison had 300 yards in 4 games last year.

 

Jennings was similar to Adams, both in their primes.

 

Driver's the guy we don't really have a comp for. One of the reasons that I thought we should have brought Cobb back IF we could have signed him to the same type of deal, 1/5, but he was a 35 year old WR'er who was steady, but no longer spectacular. Maybe a Jimmy Graham type player?

 

Our TE's were Quarless and Crabtree once Finley went down.

 

 

Mahomes is a fun guy to watch, but you can also see he has that offense absolutely down. I mean, he's literally throwing no-look passes while scrambling. It takes a while to get into a rhythm.

[OldHeidelberg]

I can understand some frustration....but I never felt nervous about the Bronco's coming back. They have good players. That TD that Lidsay scored, that wasn't a poor effort by the defense. That was a great effort by the defense. It was just an incredible effort by the RB. Clark crossed his mans face, and just couldn't hold onto his leg/foot as he was going to the ground, Lowry stood his man up, but he's still engaged as he's trying to bring Lindsay down...

 

 

 

I disagree here, once the RB was first hit at the 3 or 4 yard line everyone on the defense needed to run to the play and finish it. Tramon was standing around on the goal line watching the play, I am sure he is not the only one who thought the play was stuffed. I am very happy with the defense so far but they need to play stronger, still too much yardage after contact and broken tackles which has been a problem for years now. It's an attitude, great defenses have guys who run to the ball and are physical. There was a play earlier where King gave up a catch in front of him and actually backed up and waited for someone else in the middle to make the tackle and the wideout gained a few extra yards because of it. I know you don't want to give up containment but geez you gotta stick your nose in there and make a tackle.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm very happy that Rashan Gary had a nice game today. It should hopefully shut up some of the idiot Twitter armchair GMs for a little while.

 

Gray looked energetic and very powerful out there.

[HiAndTight]

I can understand some frustration....but I never felt nervous about the Bronco's coming back. They have good players. That TD that Lidsay scored, that wasn't a poor effort by the defense. That was a great effort by the defense. It was just an incredible effort by the RB. Clark crossed his mans face, and just couldn't hold onto his leg/foot as he was going to the ground, Lowry stood his man up, but he's still engaged as he's trying to bring Lindsay down...

 

 

 

I disagree here, once the RB was first hit at the 3 or 4 yard line everyone on the defense needed to run to the play and finish it. Tramon was standing around on the goal line watching the play, I am sure he is not the only one who thought the play was stuffed. I am very happy with the defense so far but they need to play stronger, still too much yardage after contact and broken tackles which has been a problem for years now. It's an attitude, great defenses have guys who run to the ball and are physical. There was a play earlier where King gave up a catch in front of him and actually backed up and waited for someone else in the middle to make the tackle and the wideout gained a few extra yards because of it. I know you don't want to give up containment but geez you gotta stick your nose in there and make a tackle.

 

Tramon was lined up on the opposite side of the field, ran to the ball and as he got there, Lindsay spinned back inside and he was walled off by Risner. Calling that a lack of effort...I don't want to be combative, so I'll just say I strongly disagree. That was 100 Lindsay on that play. Saying that wasn't a good effort because the LCB didn't make the play is questionable. Saying he was "standing around," is just flat out wrong. I just don't see this like you I guess.

 

You're talking about a back coming downhill, spinning and extending over the goal line. Saying the effort wasn't there...that's tough to stop at any level. It's not a matter of just not "sticking your nose in there."

 

 

Now if you want to argue the defense didn't have a good day tackling in the open field, that's a matter of opinion. I'd agree with it. They started trying to rake the ball out at times. At other times like with King, he just did a bad job. He missed Lindsay on that 40 yard reception he had..came flying in wildly trying to dive at his legs without wrapping up. I can live with that myself as he's spent most of the first two years playing like Woodson used to and he just hasn't been able to hold up physically.

 

As for the Sutton play, I don't know which one you're talking about. I am assuming it was the one where Redman was late getting over since that was the only big play he had. If that is the one, he didn't gain any more yards. Yeah, you'd better contain there. You've got Redmen coming back in bounds after overrunning him in the first place...the last thing you want up by one Score is to give up a 90-95 yard catch and run there with someone as dangerous as Sutton.

 

And maybe they weren't playing zone, maybe King blew the coverage. Kinda tough to know without being able to see what the other CB's were doing and I can't see....but I'm more inclined to guess that Redman was late than King was playing man and just got beat that badly.

 

 

Again, I didn't think the tackling was good today, but not due to a lack of effort. More gap integrity and then just too many 4-6 yard runs turning into 8-12 yard runs, but not at all because of the play at the goal line or a play in which King backed off Courtland and waited split second until pursuit got there and they didn't end up gaining any more yards out of it.

[HiAndTight]

I'm very happy that Rashan Gary had a nice game today. It should hopefully shut up some of the idiot Twitter armchair GMs for a little while.

 

Gray looked energetic and very powerful out there.

 

 

When I saw him go down for a second from an ankle issue...whatever it was, all I could think of was all the experts who'd already labeled the guy a bust and were guaranteeing he was the next Justin Harrell.

 

It was awesome to see him run through the TE, then running through whoever they had out there at RT. It showed why we should be so excited about him....and why expectations should be tempered for a big rookie year. The speed, the strength, the bend...but he's also only really got that bull rush or a speed rush where a good tackle like either of ours will most likely ride him out. But man-he is explosive and he's active. Once he improves the hand fighting and can add just one or two counter moves, he's really gonna be fun to watch.

 

 

We already hit big with Savage, if Gary realizes his potential, that could potentially be similar to the impact Raji/Matthews had after switching to the 34.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Happy to get a win, but my goodness, I’ve never felt worse about a 3-0 Packers team.

 

Defense has been very strong, and offense is showing signs of getting it together. They've played 3 likely top 5 defenses to start the season. The schedule will let up, and the offense will get things in gear more consistently.

[nodakfan17]

Happy to get a win, but my goodness, I’ve never felt worse about a 3-0 Packers team.

 

Defense has been very strong, and offense is showing signs of getting it together. They've played 3 likely top 5 defenses to start the season. The schedule will let up, and the offense will get things in gear more consistently.

I think I just need to adjust my expectations a little. Most of the big money and high draft picks are on the other side of the ball. It’s just weird seeing the Packers win like this, but it’s obviously better than losing.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I've definitely felt worse about a 3-0 team. They started 6-0 in 2015 with a team that was clearly not very good, then got thoroughly humiliated in prime time by the Broncos and finished the year 10-6. Their offense kinda looked the same as it does now that entire season, and the defense was just sort of blah.

 

They should be moving the ball against a bad Eagles defense at home, and three weeks under their belt. I'll start to be worried about the offense if we see more of the same, but they have faced three brutal secondary groups to open the season.

[homer]

Re: the offense

 

I think the offensive line has looked pretty darn good all things considered. We really don't know what this offense is just yet. The three teams they've played can make anyone look bad. If this three game stretch had happened in the middle of the season people would probably chalk it up to the defenses. As others mentioned, let's see how they look against Philly.

[adambr2]

I don't understand how anyone could feel bad about this team or 3-0 record. Not calling you out specifically Nodak, I just personally am pretty pumped.

 

2 huge division wins. The wins look legit-- no one in our division has lost to anyone other than us. The defense is leaps and bounds better, I don't think there's any questioning that. The offense is still a work in progress, but that's not a bad thing, especially when you look at the defensive opponents faced. I think the offense is only going to get better, and when you look at guys like Gary and Savage and Alexander, you could say the same about the D.

 

And even on special teams, I don't want to oversell a punter, but JK Scott looks like he could be a big difference maker on field position which has kind of hurt us in years past.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Re: the offense

 

I think the offensive line has looked pretty darn good all things considered. We really don't know what this offense is just yet. The three teams they've played can make anyone look bad. If this three game stretch had happened in the middle of the season people would probably chalk it up to the defenses. As others mentioned, let's see how they look against Philly.

 

It's still too early to look at remaining schedule and project win ranges, but if the Packers win this Thursday in any fashion against the Eagles it's very difficult to see them finishing any worse than 12-4 with their remaining slate unless there are key injuries on both sides of the ball. That's even with still having the Cowboys, Chiefs, and 4 more divisional games on the schedule.

 

I also have a tough time finding anything from Thursday night game results that's helpful for determining where a team is going - players are still shaking off soreness from the prior Sunday's games, and home teams typically have big advantages for not having to travel just 3 days after a game. Hoping for a win and for us to keep trying to nitpick team weaknesses despite a 4-0 record!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the concern about the offense stems from the fact that Aaron Rodgers hasn't looked magical in quite some time now. You probably have to go back to the playoff run in 2016, and maybe the comeback drive in Dallas before he got hurt in 2017. Are you seeing an offense in transition or a QB that is closer to good than great at this point in his career? I'm not sure, either is possible. It could be a little of both. They aren't just out of rhythm, Rodgers is definitely missing some throws.

[nodakfan17]

I don't understand how anyone could feel bad about this team or 3-0 record. Not calling you out specifically Nodak, I just personally am pretty pumped.

No offense taken. I know I’ve been spoiled by Rodgers’ magic.

[OldHeidelberg]

 

Tramon was lined up on the opposite side of the field, ran to the ball and as he got there, Lindsay spinned back inside and he was walled off by Risner. Calling that a lack of effort...I don't want to be combative, so I'll just say I strongly disagree. That was 100 Lindsay on that play. Saying that wasn't a good effort because the LCB didn't make the play is questionable. Saying he was "standing around," is just flat out wrong. I just don't see this like you I guess.

 

You're talking about a back coming downhill, spinning and extending over the goal line. Saying the effort wasn't there...that's tough to stop at any level. It's not a matter of just not "sticking your nose in there."

 

 

Now if you want to argue the defense didn't have a good day tackling in the open field, that's a matter of opinion. I'd agree with it. They started trying to rake the ball out at times. At other times like with King, he just did a bad job. He missed Lindsay on that 40 yard reception he had..came flying in wildly trying to dive at his legs without wrapping up. I can live with that myself as he's spent most of the first two years playing like Woodson used to and he just hasn't been able to hold up physically.

 

As for the Sutton play, I don't know which one you're talking about. I am assuming it was the one where Redman was late getting over since that was the only big play he had. If that is the one, he didn't gain any more yards. Yeah, you'd better contain there. You've got Redmen coming back in bounds after overrunning him in the first place...the last thing you want up by one Score is to give up a 90-95 yard catch and run there with someone as dangerous as Sutton.

 

And maybe they weren't playing zone, maybe King blew the coverage. Kinda tough to know without being able to see what the other CB's were doing and I can't see....but I'm more inclined to guess that Redman was late than King was playing man and just got beat that badly.

 

 

Again, I didn't think the tackling was good today, but not due to a lack of effort. More gap integrity and then just too many 4-6 yard runs turning into 8-12 yard runs, but not at all because of the play at the goal line or a play in which King backed off Courtland and waited split second until pursuit got there and they didn't end up gaining any more yards out of it.

 

I just watched it again, at the time Lindsay was sort of bottled up around the 3 I thought both Tramon and Amos were in position to head upfield and assist but seemed to be more monitoring the play, no not standing around but not charging in for the tackle either. Tramon was walled off when the RB cut toward the endzone and Amos then came up to try and make the play too late. The RB made a good play, the other guys are trying too, I just felt real time that as long as the play took we should have had more guys running in there. But it's a split second decision, I can't say what was in the players heads, maybe Tramon thought he might break outside. We won, it's not really worth debating it, we just see it different.

 

I don't know if we are talking about the same plays with King but we seem to agree the tackling could be better.

[FVBrewerFan]

After these 3 games two things are clear. 1)This is a playoff team again. 2) The defense is definitely improved. But, to be fair, we don't know how much better yet. I see lots of people saying we can't judge the offense because they faces 3 really good defensive units. That's true. But isn't the same true for the Packers defense? They haven't exactly played 3 explosive offenses. We just don't know yet if this is a team that can make the SB and beat the Patriots. Dallas will be the first big test.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Vikes offense has looked pretty good against two opponents other than the Packers. They're at least not beating teams like Miami right now, this appears to be 3 quality wins. Even Denver is not really as bad as 0-3 would suggest.

 

But the Packers have a pass rush with their base front. That much is clear, regardless of opponent.

[LouisEly]

I can understand some frustration....but I never felt nervous about the Bronco's coming back. They have good players. That TD that Lidsay scored, that wasn't a poor effort by the defense. That was a great effort by the defense. It was just an incredible effort by the RB. Clark crossed his mans face, and just couldn't hold onto his leg/foot as he was going to the ground, Lowry stood his man up, but he's still engaged as he's trying to bring Lindsay down...

 

 

 

I disagree here, once the RB was first hit at the 3 or 4 yard line everyone on the defense needed to run to the play and finish it. Tramon was standing around on the goal line watching the play, I am sure he is not the only one who thought the play was stuffed. I am very happy with the defense so far but they need to play stronger, still too much yardage after contact and broken tackles which has been a problem for years now. It's an attitude, great defenses have guys who run to the ball and are physical. There was a play earlier where King gave up a catch in front of him and actually backed up and waited for someone else in the middle to make the tackle and the wideout gained a few extra yards because of it. I know you don't want to give up containment but geez you gotta stick your nose in there and make a tackle.

To me, it looked like when Lindsay was stood up, Dalton Risner - a guy I wanted the Packers to draft - grabbed Lindsay and ripped him right from Lowry and pulled him into the end zone. I thought it was Risner making a great play more than anything.

[Point Beer Is Best]

To me, it looked like when Lindsay was stood up, Dalton Risner - a guy I wanted the Packers to draft - grabbed Lindsay and ripped him right from Lowry and pulled him into the end zone. I thought it was Risner making a great play more than anything.

 

Exactly what happened. Linsday's great effort got him to the half yard line, but it was Risner that should get credit for getting him across.

[adambr2]

After these 3 games two things are clear. 1)This is a playoff team again. 2) The defense is definitely improved. But, to be fair, we don't know how much better yet. I see lots of people saying we can't judge the offense because they faces 3 really good defensive units. That's true. But isn't the same true for the Packers defense? They haven't exactly played 3 explosive offenses. We just don't know yet if this is a team that can make the SB and beat the Patriots. Dallas will be the first big test.

 

I mean if we're expecting this defense to shut down Patrick Mahomes that is just not going to happen. Best we can hope is to slow them down and hope the offense is clicking enough by that point to win a 34-31 type game, which I do think is possible.

 

But it's still clearly massively improved. While we haven't faced a top 3 offense, we haven't been feasting on the Dolphins or Jets, either. Neither the Broncos or even Bears have a "bad" offense IMO, and I'd go as far as to say the Vikings look awfully dangerous offensively. Cook is probably one of the top RBs in the league and they have really good weapons at WR in Diggs and Thielen.