Hader and Rest

[rickh150]

Well, he's pitched four of the last five, including 2 straight. He should be out tomorrow and maybe Tuesday too. He threw 26 pitches on Sunday.

 

Craig said the team is going to ride him over the next (now 2) weeks. What does everyone view as the optimal rest? I'm in the boat of puting him in two games in a row, probably not 3. Multiple innings saves are possible if he has multiple days rest prior. We need him rested, but we just need him period. It's a difficult line to walk as rest is hardly a thing we can afford to give him when we need to win these series coming up.

[82brewcrew82]

Give him tomorrow off. Of the pitching matchups with the Padres in the first two games I'd rather have him on Tuesday. Of course game situation may dictate that.

[Ennder]

I think it was the right move. We don't play another team with a realistic shot at the playoffs the rest of the season. These are the games we can do without him, we needed 2 of 3 vs the Cardinals. We know that the Cubs/Cardinals are going to combine for 7 losses and that the Cardinals/Nats/DBacks and Phillies are going to combine for 10 more. As long as we don't crap the bed against these bad teams there is a really solid shot that we make the playoffs just because of how the schedule pans out.

[NYChez]

He’ll likely rest for two days. Maddon using guys 4 times in 5 days and then not resting them led to IL stints and/or ineffectiveness for several relievers. Hader is also so important to this franchise’s future that you don’t want lingering effects of overuse (see Jeffress and Kimbrel). Today’s game was also important to the franchise’s future so it was right to use him today.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think noboby has a clue how much test Hader or anyone else needs. Pitchers are babied more tnan ever with pitch counts, innings pitched, etc., and there's just as many injuries these days, if not more.

 

So sure, you try to give him days off throughout the year, stay on the safe side. But this time of year, if it's a close call....he pitches. Really no science to know if you're hurting him or not. But yea, I wouldn't push 3 games in a row at this point.

[Ennder]

He did look really gassed multiple times over the past month. I completely agree he needs rest. I just don't think was the time to give it to him. Baby him the rest of the way and hope it doesn't cost you a game against these bad teams.

[DHonks]

I’d like to be careful with him....but I want to make the playoffs. I’d give him Monday off and hope we get through Tuesday or Wed without needing him. Unfortunately Pomeranz is the only other guy we trust last. Peralta is bad this year, Claudio inconsistent, Guerra hit/homer prone, etc. I wish Nelson were getting results, as he’s be an option

[long ball]

I think the brewers generally have his rest schedule dialed in. They’re actually really good at adhering to a structured rest for Hader. It’s September and they have ground to make up. They’re pushing it to the limits for sure. I think he probably needs 2 days off right now though.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think noboby has a clue how much test Hader or anyone else needs. Pitchers are babied more tnan ever with pitch counts, innings pitched, etc., and there's just as many injuries these days, if not more.

 

So sure, you try to give him days off throughout the year, stay on the safe side. But this time of year, if it's a close call....he pitches. Really no science to know if you're hurting him or not. But yea, I wouldn't push 3 games in a row at this point.

 

With RP's it's not about injuries, it's about effectiveness. You can't pitch almost every day and not have part of your body get sore or tired. When that happens you lose control or velocity and wind up walking everyone or serving up meatballs. But totally agree about pitchers being babied.

[KeithStone53151]

I think noboby has a clue how much test Hader or anyone else needs. Pitchers are babied more tnan ever with pitch counts, innings pitched, etc., and there's just as many injuries these days, if not more.

 

So sure, you try to give him days off throughout the year, stay on the safe side. But this time of year, if it's a close call....he pitches. Really no science to know if you're hurting him or not. But yea, I wouldn't push 3 games in a row at this point.

 

Ehh, I tend to disagree with this I think. Key is, we need Hader to be effective. If we pitch Hader 5 times a week and it doesn't cause injury...who cares...if it results in him being less effective and getting shelled twice. I don't mind bumping his usage a little bit incrementally down the stretch here, but we definitely don't want to push him to the point where he's worn down and needs 3-5 days off to recuperate. That's Joe Maddon managing, and is how you end up with a bullpen full of worn/tired/trash relievers by mid-August. For the current situation, I would consider Hader off limits today...and hope to not use him tomorrow. If we have a 3 run lead in the 9th tomorrow...I'd probably let Pomeranz or Guerra try finishing it, and have Hader start loosening up if we allow one or two baserunners. A 1 or 2 run lead, or a critical spot in the 7th or 8th inning...I think I wouldn't hesitate going with Hader on Tuesday.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Well, the good news about the WC is that NL is second this year, right? So, if we're in that game, Hader would have two guaranteed days off. You figure he'd be able to go 3. Not as good as having Scherzer, but it helps.

[KeithStone53151]

Well, the good news about the WC is that NL is second this year, right? So, if we're in that game, Hader would have two guaranteed days off. You figure he'd be able to go 3. Not as good as having Scherzer, but it helps.

 

Actually it looks like the NL is inexplicably first. Seems stupid considering we were first last year.

 

Not to get too off-topic here...but completely agree, I think if we get a lead through 7...it's Hader to finish. I also doubt we would ever let a pitcher bat, maybe once if Lyles or Houser is particularly effective. I'm imagining something like Lyles, Woodruff, Houser, Pomeranz, Hader as the 5 guys we use to try and get through any wildcard game. The most fun part, is I would almost guarantee that Tyrone Taylor is on a wildcard roster...since we'll probably only carry 8-9 pitchers for a one off and his speed/defense would have value.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Well, the good news about the WC is that NL is second this year, right? So, if we're in that game, Hader would have two guaranteed days off. You figure he'd be able to go 3. Not as good as having Scherzer, but it helps.

 

Actually it looks like the NL is inexplicably first. Seems stupid considering we were first last year.

 

Not to get too off-topic here...but completely agree, I think if we get a lead through 7...it's Hader to finish. I also doubt we would ever let a pitcher bat, maybe once if Lyles or Houser is particularly effective. I'm imagining something like Lyles, Woodruff, Houser, Pomeranz, Hader as the 5 guys we use to try and get through any wildcard game. The most fun part, is I would almost guarantee that Tyrone Taylor is on a wildcard roster...since we'll probably only carry 8-9 pitchers for a one off and his speed/defense would have value.

 

There goes that. NL is first. Wow. I thought it was supposed to alternate.

 

Probably matters more for us than anyone else that it is first, but I guess you can also throw Lyles (who I'd start), Woody, Houser, as you say. So, basically our whole rotation is going to make the roster and then pitch out of the pen. Hopefully you can set it up like that.

[rickh150]

Does Hader throw at all Sunday? If we have a small lead in the 9th AND the Cards are losing.... sure.

[pitchleague]

Yeah, I think that would be the only way he throws. Otherwise, might as well save the arm for Tuesday.

 

And I MIGHT be convinced not to use him at all tomorrow, to be honest.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

No thanks. Unless we're up or down 5 he can play cards tomorrow. I'd rather see Hernan Perez go for a save. Don't even want the chance to ruin his psyche going into the WC having him blow another game. Ice him until you leave COL.

[MrTPlush]

I don’t get the concern of throwing guys today. They will get rest Monday before Tuesday. I’m sure they all could pitch two innings on Tuesday too if they wanted. I’d rather go for the win today as long as the Cards look like they could lose. Sure, we may not have much available for a potential Game 163, but so what. It’s another opportunity to make it to the NLDS and if the Cubs B squad beats the Cardinals our B squad of pitchers can too.

 

Only guy I would not play is Woodruff because that would certainly effect his use for Tuesday. In Game 163 I am also likely to save Woodruff unless late in the game and We have a lead. And of course I’m not throwing an BP arm more than an inning today.