2019-09-15: Brewers (Anderson) at Cardinals (Wacha) [Brewers win, 7-6 -- Braun’s 2 out, full count, 9th inning Grand Slam fuels comeback victory]

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Now that Joey Gammons is in I will say one last time Hook is responsible for the pitching. The pitching is not good. As a result he should be fired. It may not all be his fault but the buck stops with him. If they think he's good enough so be it but frankly I don't think they will. Now if you want to blame Stearns and say what's Hook supposed to do with these clowns ok I guess. I'd prefer to fire Hook rather than Stearns.

 

Hmm, here I thought the actual guys doing the pitching were responsible for the pitching. Silly me.

Right. Why ever fire anyone? Lifetime Bring back Rene Lachman after all it's the players fault

 

Well, they have fired several underperforming pitchers already this year, so you might be on to something.

[82brewcrew82]

This is just getting strange.

Stopt it, I'm having fun.

[homer]

Sometimes the players just aren't good. That isn't on the coaches it's on the GM.

[82brewcrew82]

Well, they have fired several underperforming pitchers already this year, so you might be on to something.

ding ding ding

[Bulldogboy]

Now that Joey Gammons is in I will say one last time Hook is responsible for the pitching. The pitching is not good. As a result he should be fired. It may not all be his fault but the buck stops with him. If they think he's good enough so be it but frankly I don't think they will. Now if you want to blame Stearns and say what's Hook supposed to do with these clowns ok I guess. I'd prefer to fire Hook rather than Stearns.

In other words your argument is completely arbitrary. You simply want someone to pay for the failures of the pitching staff but don't want to actually blame those doing the pitching? Wouldn't then, the buck stop with DS since he a) let DJ walk and b) hired hook? I suggest you go to work and not execute your job properly for a few months and then see if you or your boss is in the unemployment line.

 

They absolutely think he is good enough for better or worse and they have demonstrated that repeatedly so you may be a tad disappointed.

I am responsible for people and their performance at my job. If that performance isn't good enough I fully expect I will be held accountable. It's on me to get them to perform and produce to expectations. It comes with the job. Like I said you like Hook God Bless. I would look for an upgrade. That's all man.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Sometimes the players just aren't good. That isn't on the coaches it's on the GM.

 

Come on homer, he already declared victory. You can't drag him back out on the field!

[yourout]

In none of these years did I think the Brewers had superior arm talent.

The Brewers had average arm talent and outstanding coaching.

So you don't think the 2018 bullpen had superior arm talent? You don't think 2017 Jimmy Nelson wasn't superior to any starter we have not named Brandon Woodruff (and probably him too)

 

Scouting, Mechanical adjusting, in game pitch sequencing was far superior to what I have seen this year.

Examples?

 

This year they still have average arm talent but the results say below average coaching. Far to often the pitch sequencing is terrible in that the hitter gets the pitch he is looking for in the location he is looking for it. Pitchers can get away with bad location at times if the sequencing keeps the hitter guessing.

Is it not just as plausible that the sequencing and scouting is just fine and the pitcher lacks the ability to execute? Again, give me some examples of what you perceive to be bad sequencing. I see lots of catchers glove moving and pitchers missing spots by a wide margin. That ain't sequencing.

 

 

 

Yes hitters are still going to get hits and no one is perfect but many games are decided by the right pitch at the right time in critical at bats. Take a look at the list of Arms we had in 2016, 2017, and 2018. That is not a who's who of great arm talent. DJ was probably the best pitching coach in all of baseball and they should have gave him pretty much anything he wanted.

I mean, I appreciate the effort you put in and at least you are making an argument unlike some others but I think it's a little intellectually dishonest to compare ERA from those years to this year. We all know that the ball is different and juiced and if you account for that those ERA numbers are probably a little closer. Add in above normal performance from some pitchers last year and I think you have a pretty similar staff. The difference between this year and last was a very dominant bullpen down the stretch to hide some of the differences of the starters. We don't have that this year. Introduce a juiced ball to an average pitching staff and that talent level gets exposed for what it is. Occam says the simplist explanation is the typically the right one and that seems far simpler than DJ having some sort of pixie dust. There are plenty of holes to be poked in the "DJ is the greatest pitching coach in the league" thoughts.

 

Compared to the rest of the League the 2018 STAFF AS A WHOLE raw talent wise was middle of the road in my view. By raw talent I mean Velocity, Movement , and hittability.

 

While I am not going to dig through specific at bats I am going to give you examples of a terrible pitch selection. Under no circumstances would I have thrown Braun a 3-2 slider if I had a 95+ fast ball. Half of pitch sequencing is reading hitter mechanics and being able to guess what they are looking for. For example Dejung was absolutely looking for that fastball in that spot on the HR. Throw a change or something else to start the AB. The location was not that terrible. It was at the top of the Zone. It was just the wrong pitch.

 

I am not so much interested in the number as in ERA and runs allowed. I am interested in the relation to the rest of the league.

Juiced ball should not mean 12th out of 16 teams.

[Bulldogboy]

Sometimes the players just aren't good. That isn't on the coaches it's on the GM.

Like I said if people think Stearns dealt poor Chris Hook a bad hand so be it.

[Bulldogboy]

Sometimes the players just aren't good. That isn't on the coaches it's on the GM.

 

Come on homer, he already declared victory. You can't drag him back out on the field!

No dog maybe a child you have to tuck in? Don't tell my you live alone in a van down by... you know.

[homer]

Guys, knock it off.

[Ennder]

It was a long AB and Braun had seen all of the pitches multiple times, complaining about pitch selection on that pitch is completely wrong, it is all about execution which was happily lacking.

The Brewers staff was a huge weakness last year that we hid with the bullpen, it was a huge weakness going into the season. The fact we rate 12th out of 16 teams is exactly where we should be with such a low level of pitching talent on the team and a number of underperformers and injuries. This was a bad pitching staff going into the year and had a lot of injuries, 12th out of 16th is just reasonable expectation.

[82brewcrew82]

I am responsible for people and their performance at my job. If that performance isn't good enough I fully expect I will be held accountable. It's on me to get them to perform and produce to expectations. It comes with the job. Like I said you like Hook God Bless. I would look for an upgrade. That's all man.

I'd look for another job if I was held solely responsible for people that couldn't do their job for months at a time and I got fired for it. That sounds like a horrible job and a horrible place to work. I'm responsible for multiple teams performing multi-million dollar projects that literally involve life and death on a daily basis. If I've got someone that is not performing we have processes in place to coach that performer. If they don't improve they get punched, it isn't on my job to ensure someone can perform their job if they have been given the appropriate instruction and coaching. Just because I have a bad performer or two doesn't mean I'm not doing my job or even that my teams are not hitting their goals.

 

This is what is happening with the Brewers. The non-performers are getting the boot, not the managers.

[Bulldogboy]

I am responsible for people and their performance at my job. If that performance isn't good enough I fully expect I will be held accountable. It's on me to get them to perform and produce to expectations. It comes with the job. Like I said you like Hook God Bless. I would look for an upgrade. That's all man.

I'd look for another job if I was held solely responsible for people that couldn't do their job for months at a time and I got fired for it. That sounds like a horrible job and a horrible place to work. I'm responsible for multiple teams performing multi-million dollar projects that literally involve life and death on a daily basis. If I've got someone that is not performing we have processes in place to coach that performer. If they don't improve they get punched, it isn't on my job to ensure someone can perform their job if they have been given the appropriate instruction and coaching. Just because I have a bad performer or two doesn't mean I'm not doing my job or even that my teams are not hitting their goals.

 

This is what is happening with the Brewers. The non-performers are getting the boot, not the managers.

And yet here you are...

[yourout]

The Brewers saved (DRS)116 runs last year and so far this season they have saved 25.

 

I think there are more factors than our pitching coach.

 

With all the shifts pitch sequencing might have a say in that.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Sometimes the players just aren't good. That isn't on the coaches it's on the GM.

 

Come on homer, he already declared victory. You can't drag him back out on the field!

No dog maybe a child you have to tuck in? Don't tell my you live alone in a van down by... you know.

 

That's irresponsible! It's 9:45 p.m.! Kids were in bed a long time ago. It's a school night.

 

Letting them stay up this late would not be parental #WINNING

[homer]

What part of knock it off wasn't clear? Maybe move this to a different thread or something. Or better yet, call it a day and come back tomorrow.

[82brewcrew82]

And yet here you are...

Why wouldn't I be?

[Bulldogboy]

And yet here you are...

Why wouldn't I be?

Just thought you would be getting to bed so you can get up early to save more lives and all.

[willie key]

Also been scouring for that link

 

The cards call:

 

https://streamable.com/7u4yq

 

 

How old is mike Shannon. My god is he terrible

[82brewcrew82]

And yet here you are...

Why wouldn't I be?

Just thought you would be getting to bed so you can get up early to save more lives and all.

Well, it's not pizza delivery drivers I'm "responsible for" but yeah. So?

[82brewcrew82]

Also been scouring for that link

 

The cards call:

 

https://streamable.com/7u4yq

 

 

How old is mike Shannon. My god is he terrible

I thought the same thing. That was horrible.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

In the interest of turning this IGT back to the positive ...

 

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/video/braun-s-clutch-grand-slam-in-9th

 

Nice call on this one by Levering.

[82brewcrew82]

In the interest of turning this IGT back to the positive ...

 

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/video/braun-s-clutch-grand-slam-in-9th

 

Nice call on this one by Levering.

All the Brewers calls were great. So were the Cardinal calls, but in a different way.

[Bulldogboy]

That hurts. I'm sad

[adambr2]

Also been scouring for that link

 

The cards call:

 

https://streamable.com/7u4yq

 

I love how the ladies that caught it were just super stoked to get a ball and couldn't care less about it blowing the game for their team.