2019-09-15: Brewers (Anderson) at Cardinals (Wacha) [Brewers win, 7-6 -- Braun’s 2 out, full count, 9th inning Grand Slam fuels comeback victory]

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Also been scouring for that link

[82brewcrew82]

Also been scouring for that link

You should be able to go to MLB.com. Maybe you need a subscription but the radio and tv replays are available.

[pacopete4]

Some not-so-feel-good stats... Cards,even with the loss, take the season series with the Brewers 10-9. Cards have outscored the Brewers in the season series 110-80, a 30-run difference...

 

Saw this on those message boards.

[BruisedCrew]

IMO the Brewers could cool off a bit and still likely get in. With all those teams playing each other it seems highly unlikely to me that one doesn't fall hard. Now the Brewers aren't quite good enough to be confident they won't finish 3-9 or something.

 

I personally think 7-6 would do it

 

It might, but I wouldn’t count on it.

 

That would leave the Brewers at 87-75.

 

To get to 88 wins:

 

The Cards only have to go 5-8

The Nats have to go 6-8

The Cubs have to go 7-6.

 

Yes, there are 10 head to head games with two of those teams. So that guarantees 10 losses, but also guarantees 10 wins.

 

The Nats have 3 at Miami and 5 at home against the fading Phillies. They might easily get 5 or 6 wins in just those games and not need any against the Cards or Indians. If they get swept by the Cards that just puts the Redbirds that much closer.

 

The Cubs have 3 at home against the Reds and 3 at Pittsburgh. They could get 5 of the wins they need right there and need only 2 of 7 against the Cards to get to 88.

 

If the Cubs only win 2 against the Cardinals, that would give the Cardinals 88 wins right there. They also have the games against the Nats and fading DBacks to add more wins.

 

I still think 89 is the target. Anything less than that and the Brewers would need help from teams like the Pirates, Reds, and Marlins and that is dangerous.

[LouisEly]

Look at all the shocked and disappointed faces.

 

 

/starts counting all the hands on heads.

Between hands on heads or hands over mouths, I counted 45.

[AKCheesehead]

Homer that is one of the all time greatest posts on this forum.

[82brewcrew82]

IMO the Brewers could cool off a bit and still likely get in. With all those teams playing each other it seems highly unlikely to me that one doesn't fall hard. Now the Brewers aren't quite good enough to be confident they won't finish 3-9 or something.

 

I personally think 7-6 would do it

 

It might, but I wouldn’t count on it.

 

That would leave the Brewers at 87-75.

 

To get to 88 wins:

 

The Cards only have to go 5-8

The Nats have to go 6-8

The Cubs have to go 7-6.

 

Yes, there are 10 head to head games with two of those teams. So that guarantees 10 losses, but also guarantees 10 wins.

 

The Nats have 3 at Miami and 5 at home against the fading Phillies. They might easily get 5 or 6 wins in just those games and not need any against the Cards or Indians. If they get swept by the Cards that just puts the Redbirds that much closer.

 

The Cubs have 3 at home against the Reds and 3 at Pittsburgh. They could get 5 of the wins they need right there and need only 2 of 7 against the Cards to get to 88.

 

If the Cubs only win 2 against the Cardinals, that would give the Cardinals 88 wins right there. They also have the games against the Nats and fading DBacks to add more wins.

 

I still think 89 is the target. Anything less than that and the Brewers would need help from teams like the Pirates, Reds, and Marlins and that is dangerous.

Good breakdown, thank you.

[Bulldogboy]

If pitching coach doesn't matter then just do without one by your line of thinking. Come on man unless I'm talking to Mrs Hook nobody thinks the guy has done a good job. It's a dumb thing to argue. Like I said you want him back God Bless. I don't.

[pacopete4]

I think he’s done a better job than a lot will give him credit for. After the horrendous start to the season, this staff has settled in to being pretty solid and lately pretty good. They are a big reason this team has a chance at a playoff spot. Not sure how one can discredit that.

[Bulldogboy]

I think he’s done a better job than a lot will give him credit for. After the horrendous start to the season, this staff has settled in to being pretty solid and lately pretty good. They are a big reason this team has a chance at a playoff spot. Not sure how one can discredit that.

He deserves credit for not letting things completely go down the drain I give you that but this is where we as fans can't be swayed by mediocrity. If you think this team can and should pitch better than you should be open to making a change. I am.

[pacopete4]

I think he’s done a better job than a lot will give him credit for. After the horrendous start to the season, this staff has settled in to being pretty solid and lately pretty good. They are a big reason this team has a chance at a playoff spot. Not sure how one can discredit that.

He deserves credit for not letting things completely go down the drain I give you that but this is where we as fans can't be swayed by mediocrity. If you think this team can and should pitch better than you should be open to making a change. I am.

 

I’m not sure they could be pitching better than they are though. I mean, they’ve been really good and are getting production from cast off type players. I mean it’s not like Hook has a bunch of studs that are pitching mediocre.

[pacopete4]

Per TomH

#Brewers Ryan Braun on 9th inning slam: "I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity."

[82brewcrew82]

If pitching coach doesn't matter then just do without one by your line of thinking. Come on man unless I'm talking to Mrs Hook nobody thinks the guy has done a good job. It's a dumb thing to argue. Like I said you want him back God Bless. I don't.

I never said I wanted Hook back. I couldn't care less as to whether he is here or not. I also never said pitching coaches don't matter. I happen to think the talent level of the actual pitchers matters more. I think he's done a decent job given the injuries and talent level and apparently so do others so your wrong on that too. Would you like to bring DJ back? Is he a good pitching coach? Explain why his staff has dropped a run in ERA in the second half while, in theory, upgrading talent from Roark to Bauer?

 

I do watch the games and I see pitchers failing to execute pitches. Simple as that. Keep Hook, fire Hook, I really don't care one way or the other but the reasons for getting rid of him that you have presented in this thread have been pretty easily refuted and/or lack statistical proof. This started with your statement that the gopher ball Hader gave up was a "Chris Hook special" as if that were a thing. Even if it were a thing it was a ridiculous statement. That home run was on Hader and his inability to execute on that pitch.............period.

 

You claimed they weren't pitching better of late. A notion that was dispelled by other posters and statistical evidence. Once that was refuted you resorted to a "my eyes tell me" argument about walking batters and 0-2 counts, none of which you can back up. There are plenty of folks that will tell you that I've been overly critical of the pitching and up until the last few weeks I haven't wavered from that stance (I'm still skeptical) but credit where credit is due. They are pitching better and if Hook gets the blame early, he gets the credit late.

 

You don't like Hook and that's fine but I see no indication that the Brewers are unhappy with him and I'd be willing to bet he is back next year......anecdotal evidence aside.

[yourout]

Per TomH

#Brewers Ryan Braun on 9th inning slam: "I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity."

Sounds like a Toby Keith song.

 

[82brewcrew82]

Per TomH

#Brewers Ryan Braun on 9th inning slam: "I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity."

Gotta love that Braun cockiness.

[82brewcrew82]

I think he’s done a better job than a lot will give him credit for. After the horrendous start to the season, this staff has settled in to being pretty solid and lately pretty good. They are a big reason this team has a chance at a playoff spot. Not sure how one can discredit that.

He deserves credit for not letting things completely go down the drain I give you that but this is where we as fans can't be swayed by mediocrity. If you think this team can and should pitch better than you should be open to making a change. I am.

I think the team has spoken pretty clearly on this. The releases of pitchers like Chacin and Jeffress that played such major roles last year were let go, not the pitching coach. Clearly the team thinks the pitchers failed to do their job, not Hook.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think he’s done a better job than a lot will give him credit for. After the horrendous start to the season, this staff has settled in to being pretty solid and lately pretty good. They are a big reason this team has a chance at a playoff spot. Not sure how one can discredit that.

He deserves credit for not letting things completely go down the drain I give you that but this is where we as fans can't be swayed by mediocrity. If you think this team can and should pitch better than you should be open to making a change. I am.

I think the team has spoken pretty clearly on this. The releases of pitchers like Chacin and Jeffress that played such major roles last year were let go, not the pitching coach. Clearly the team thinks the pitchers failed to do their job, not Hook.

 

Yep, spot on. Calling for coaching changes is an easy target, but anyone who watches the games is seeing that these guys are missing spots pretty consistently, and they are not talented enough arms to get away with that on a regular basis. That's the underlying issue. They caught lightning in a bottle last year with soft tossers like Chacin and Gio finding terrific command near the end of the season, along with their flamethrowers all getting hot at the same time. Things have been much more inconsistent this year, although I agree significantly better lately. I'm not sure how you could watch the last two weeks of games and not come away with the conclusion that the pitching has been better.

[Bulldogboy]

If pitching coach doesn't matter then just do without one by your line of thinking. Come on man unless I'm talking to Mrs Hook nobody thinks the guy has done a good job. It's a dumb thing to argue. Like I said you want him back God Bless. I don't.

I never said I wanted Hook back. I couldn't care less as to whether he is here or not. I also never said pitching coaches don't matter. I happen to think the talent level of the actual pitchers matters more. I think he's done a decent job given the injuries and talent level and apparently so do others so your wrong on that too. Would you like to bring DJ back? Is he a good pitching coach? Explain why his staff has dropped a run in ERA in the second half while, in theory, upgrading talent from Roark to Bauer?

 

I do watch the games and I see pitchers failing to execute pitches. Simple as that. Keep Hook, fire Hook, I really don't care one way or the other but the reasons for getting rid of him that you have presented in this thread have been pretty easily refuted and/or lack statistical proof. This started with your statement that the gopher ball Hader gave up was a "Chris Hook special" as if that were a thing. Even if it were a thing it was a ridiculous statement. That home run was on Hader and his inability to execute on that pitch.............period.

 

You claimed they weren't pitching better of late. A notion that was dispelled by other posters and statistical evidence. Once that was refuted you resorted to a "my eyes tell me" argument about walking batters and 0-2 counts, none of which you can back up. There are plenty of folks that will tell you that I've been overly critical of the pitching and up until the last few weeks I haven't wavered from that stance (I'm still skeptical) but credit where credit is due. They are pitching better and if Hook gets the blame early, he gets the credit late.

 

You don't like Hook and that's fine but I see no indication that the Brewers are unhappy with him and I'd be willing to bet he is back next year......anecdotal evidence aside.

Again let me be clear. The team has not pitched well this season as a whole. The starters have been bad and the bullpen has been bad. They have had trouble executing pitching 101 which is not giving good pitches to hit with 0-2 counts. We have seen it all season long. The young starters flamed out aside from Woodruff. The question is if the pitching coach is irrelevant and not responsible for the results that are significantly worse than last year then you can get anybody correct? Still no need to keep Hook since he has nothing to do success or fail? I'm not buying it. The results speak for themselves. The brewers are where they are despite the performance of the pitching staff. Sure Hook can't throw the ball for them but he can say hey guys when we have a guy in a 0-2 hole let's not throw a meatball over the plate. If they aren't listening to him then that's another issue. I don't hate the guy I just think a there's a chance that there is someone out there who may be better equipped to get this staff performing at a higher level. I get it he doesn't have the Astros pitching staff but there is very little evidence outside of the Lyles transformation that he has done a good job. That's all I'm saying.

[willie key]

Per TomH

#Brewers Ryan Braun on 9th inning slam: "I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity."

 

 

Braun is a piece of work. Hahaha

[yourout]

Brewers are 12th out of 16 NL teams in runs allowed and ERA.

I want someone else as a pitching coach next year.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

 

To get to 88 wins:

 

The Cards only have to go 5-8

The Nats have to go 6-8

The Cubs have to go 7-6.

 

 

I don't think this would really happen though. It's likely one finishes hot, maybe two, or two finish poorly...but I think it's unlikely they all float around a .500 finish, and in the specific order you mention. Because that's what it would take. Say the Cubs are the team that goes 5-8, 7-6 would do it. It's a big mess to pick apart now, but I just don't see that scenario being very likely. I like where the Brewers are. I would bet on them to make it.

[82brewcrew82]

Brewers are 12th out of 16 NL teams in runs allowed and ERA.

I want someone else as a pitching coach next year.

Fine, get another one. It won't matter unless the talent level of the pitching staff is improved as well.

[adambr2]

Per TomH

#Brewers Ryan Braun on 9th inning slam: "I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity."

 

 

Braun is a piece of work. Hahaha

 

I'm confused and I regularly criticize Braun when the opportunity presents itself. What was wrong with saying that?

[Bulldogboy]

Brewers are 12th out of 16 NL teams in runs allowed and ERA.

I want someone else as a pitching coach next year.

That's all I'm saying. It really isn't controversial. One guy is making it that way but reality is we need to do better. He's a big boy and he's accountable.

[82brewcrew82]

Again let me be clear. The team has not pitched well this season as a whole. The starters have been bad and the bullpen has been bad. They have had trouble executing pitching 101 which is not giving good pitches to hit with 0-2 counts. We have seen it all season long.

You just called out exactly what I'm saying. The PITCHERS are having trouble executing.

 

 

The young starters flamed out aside from Woodruff. The question is if the pitching coach is irrelevant and not responsible for the results that are significantly worse than last year then you can get anybody correct? Still no need to keep Hook since he has nothing to do success or fail? I'm not buying it. The results speak for themselves.

Nobody asked you to buy it but yeah, that is what I'm saying.

 

 

 

The brewers are where they are despite the performance of the pitching staff. Sure Hook can't throw the ball for them but he can say hey guys when we have a guy in a 0-2 hole let's not throw a meatball over the plate. If they aren't listening to him then that's another issue.

I mean, at this point you're just making my argument for me. No, Hook doesn't actually make the pitches and if you think there is a single pitcher in professional baseball that doesn't understand the concept of pitching 0-2 then I have a bridge to sell you. They shouldn't have to be told and if they do I'm 1000% sure that Hook is not telling them to groove pitches in 0-2 counts. That is just a ridiculous notion. It's not a matter of listening, it's a matter of having the talent to execute.

 

I don't hate the guy I just think a there's a chance that there is someone out there who may be better equipped to get this staff performing at a higher level. I get it he doesn't have the Astros pitching staff but there is very little evidence outside of the Lyles transformation that he has done a good job. That's all I'm saying.

Are you really going to look at the Isle of Misfit Toys that constitutes our bullpen right now and claim he hasn't improved a pitchers performance? What about Woody? There are others. What about the much improved performance of late? There is plenty of evidence including the release and/or demotion of multiple pitchers that played big roles last year. Not wanting to see it is antoher story.