Houser: Starter or Reliever

[pacopete4]

I thought they made a mistake putting this guy into the rotation as I thought he was becoming a dominant bullpen option for us. I know they their backs were up against the wall with finding rotation pieces due to injuries but it makes me wonder if it was the best choice. Now he has had some very nice start for us but here is the splits this season for him:

 

As a starter (15G- 67.2 innings): .283/.355/.468/.823 with a 2-6 record and a 4.92 ERA and a 1.493 WHIP

 

As a reliever: (17G- 30.2 innings): .180/.254/.270/.524 with a 4-0 record and a 1.47 ERA and a 0.946 WHIP

[Brew crew 92]

You could be the only person on this site that is still clinging to the hope that the brewers could put him back in the pen. If the crew signs Cole, trades for glasnow Verlander and Greinke, then yeah.

[Underachiever]

Okay, replace him in the rotation with...? You can't just make this decision by itself. You prefer Burnes, Peralta, Black, Faria, 2008 Sabathia? Sometimes decisions have to be made.

[pacopete4]

I doubt I’m the only one, that after looking at the stats, thinks it may be a better option to have him in the pen in the future. Unless he can improve upon his 3rd time through the order (.364/.391/.727/1.119), then he probably doesn’t belong in our starting rotation going forward.

 

And I think I covered the fact of why this move was made when it was so the second post is pretty much, well, crap. But that doesn’t surprise me.

[benji]

He can be a good number 3 starter in my opinion. He is young and learning. I would keep him in the rotation in 2020. If he fails then bullpen is always an option.

 

 

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[Brew crew 92]

I doubt I’m the only one, that after looking at the stats, thinks it may be a better option to have him in the pen in the future. Unless he can improve upon his 3rd time through the order (.364/.391/.727/1.119), then he probably doesn’t belong in our starting rotation going forward.

 

And I think I covered the fact of why this move was made when it was so the second post is pretty much, well, crap. But that doesn’t surprise me.

 

But it really doesn’t matter if there’s another poster or two that agree’s with you because the brewers don’t, and for good reason, and it’s called a pitcher with 4 pitches that he can locate = Starter 100% of the time.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

He’s a starter going forward. Rough one last night, but otherwise has been very good in that role.

[pacopete4]

If Davies had his stat line we’d have posters calling for Stearns job. Oh wait, one of the posters in this thread has already done that.

[MrTPlush]

Nothing like a nicely timed thread.

[pacopete4]

Nothing like a nicely timed thread.

 

Last night wasn't even his worst start. I've had this opinion for a while now. He just keeps proving me more right than I am wrong on it. And yes, it is totally understood that the Brewers were running out of options but they shouldn't go into this offseason thinking this guy is a stable piece to a good rotation.

[DuWayne Steurer]

His last 2 starts have been pretty meh. The last 5 starts were really good. He went 27.2 innings and gave up 1 earned run in each of those 5 starts. I'd be inclined to go into next season at least with him in the rotation and see where it goes with him. He's definitely got the stuff.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I doubt I’m the only one, that after looking at the stats, thinks it may be a better option to have him in the pen in the future. Unless he can improve upon his 3rd time through the order (.364/.391/.727/1.119), then he probably doesn’t belong in our starting rotation going forward.

 

And I think I covered the fact of why this move was made when it was so the second post is pretty much, well, crap. But that doesn’t surprise me.

 

But it really doesn’t matter if there’s another poster or two that agree’s with you because the brewers don’t, and for good reason, and it’s called a pitcher with 4 pitches that he can locate = Starter 100% of the time.

 

 

Nobody here knows what the brewers think. If people didn't post stuff based on their own personal ideas, and only posted "here's what I think the Brewers will do", there'd be nothing to talk about. This is particularly rich coming from you, as you post more than your fair handful of interesting ideas on a daily basis, some of which I'm reasonably sure are not on the Brewers brass radar.

[timpep]

I think he's better than a 5 era starter and not as good as a 1.5 era reliever.

As stats revert towards the mean a mid rotation starter is a lot more valuable overall than a good reliever. If he has a chance to stick as a starter that's the route they need to go with until proven otherwise. Lots of guys struggle for a year or two before sticking in the rotation.

[Brew crew 92]

I doubt I’m the only one, that after looking at the stats, thinks it may be a better option to have him in the pen in the future. Unless he can improve upon his 3rd time through the order (.364/.391/.727/1.119), then he probably doesn’t belong in our starting rotation going forward.

 

And I think I covered the fact of why this move was made when it was so the second post is pretty much, well, crap. But that doesn’t surprise me.

 

But it really doesn’t matter if there’s another poster or two that agree’s with you because the brewers don’t, and for good reason, and it’s called a pitcher with 4 pitches that he can locate = Starter 100% of the time.

 

 

 

Nobody here knows what the brewers think. If people didn't post stuff based on their own personal ideas, and only posted "here's what I think the Brewers will do", there'd be nothing to talk about. This is particularly rich coming from you, as you post more than your fair handful of interesting ideas on a daily basis, some of which I'm reasonably sure are not on the Brewers brass radar.

 

Ok, a better way of putting it might be, the Brewers decided to make him a starter in ST, when, according to BA, he developed a slider. And even when he pitched in the pen, said, he’d go back to starting. The guys gonna be a stud Starter, he’s a rookie, next year he should flourish.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Ticketing Houser for the pen would be shortsighted. Woodruff was lit up like a Christmas tree the 3rd time through prior to this year. Sequencing, pitch usage percentage, and finding the right throttle as a starter requires a learning curve. Houser has shown plenty to continue starting games. The Brewers don't even let many of them go 3 times through anyway. It would be great to have a few who can and Houser still has a chance to be one of those types.

[pacopete4]

The difference between comparing Woody to Houser is that Woody showed starter success in the minors while Houser has struggled there too. Maybe a different pitch gets him to being successful but as of today it just hasn’t happened.

[Brew crew 92]

If Davies had his stat line we’d have posters calling for Stearns job. Oh wait, one of the posters in this thread has already done that.

 

Ha, Sorry if I don’t love Davies like you do. Wanting Stearns fired lasted all of 29 hours, until I recovered from my temper tantrum.

[phnxcrew]

IMO a lot depends on what we do in the offseason. If we add a couple good starters, as we have needed to for awhile Houser could shore up a bullpen with a lot of question marks. If they add relievers, give him a shot in the rotation. We need young starters to emerge alongside Woodruff eventually to truly contend-so whether it's Houser, Burnes, or Peralta some one has to step up. As the official good/ bad designator for the pen, I would classify him in the "good" category-if that helps clear that issue up.

[MrTPlush]

Nothing like a nicely timed thread.

 

Last night wasn't even his worst start. I've had this opinion for a while now. He just keeps proving me more right than I am wrong on it. And yes, it is totally understood that the Brewers were running out of options but they shouldn't go into this offseason thinking this guy is a stable piece to a good rotation.

 

Actually, arguably his worst start. Pretty much seems like you were patiently waiting for any sign of struggle so you could post this. Two bad starts after a number of great ones seems desperate to call him out.

 

I’m not disagreeing with you per say. Mainly because there is no reason he has to start in the rotation to get a major look next year...just like the 3 guys this year. You are lucky to get through April, heck spring training, without a major starter injury. Houser was well down the depth chart of starters this year and is getting in over half a years worth of starts. Anderson was the #6 guy (I think?) and he will get almost 30.

 

There is way too much of an affection to take a promising guy and make sure he starts the year in the rotation like he will never get a chance if not. All it does is create horrible depth handing them a spot. Better off signing Lyles or Gio to get a spot to start 2020. If they flop it is an easy dump and let Houser start. However, start Houser in the rotation and it is whatever sketchy in house options you have.

[82brewcrew82]

I doubt I’m the only one, that after looking at the stats, thinks it may be a better option to have him in the pen in the future. Unless he can improve upon his 3rd time through the order (.364/.391/.727/1.119), then he probably doesn’t belong in our starting rotation going forward.

 

And I think I covered the fact of why this move was made when it was so the second post is pretty much, well, crap. But that doesn’t surprise me.

 

But it really doesn’t matter if there’s another poster or two that agree’s with you because the brewers don’t, and for good reason, and it’s called a pitcher with 4 pitches that he can locate = Starter 100% of the time.

Can he locate his pitches? Yes, at times. However, the reason his numbers are so bad as a starter are a direct result of his inability to CONSISTENTLY locate his pitches. Inability to locate consistently = bullpen/swing arm.

[adambr2]

It wasn't too long ago that I 100% agreed with Brew on this, but right now, who can you trust for the 2020 rotation? Burnes can't be allowed anywhere near the opening day rotation next year, Peralta looks even more suited for the pen than Houser is and most of the others are upcoming FAs. So of the guys you control for 2020, you've got Davies, Anderson and Faria, and all of these options are probably going to be inferior as starters to Houser going forward, other than Woodruff, of course.

 

Meanwhile some decent options for the 2020 pen are starting to emerge. You've already got Hader, Knebel should be back fairly early and you've got Black, Peralta, and possibly Wahl and others. Potentially it's a pretty formidable pen.

 

I think if you can count on Houser to be a #3 type starter in 2020, which I think is realistic, you need him for that role, unless you are convinced he can be a lockdown closer type in the pen.

[adambr2]

I doubt I’m the only one, that after looking at the stats, thinks it may be a better option to have him in the pen in the future. Unless he can improve upon his 3rd time through the order (.364/.391/.727/1.119), then he probably doesn’t belong in our starting rotation going forward.

 

And I think I covered the fact of why this move was made when it was so the second post is pretty much, well, crap. But that doesn’t surprise me.

 

But it really doesn’t matter if there’s another poster or two that agree’s with you because the brewers don’t, and for good reason, and it’s called a pitcher with 4 pitches that he can locate = Starter 100% of the time.

 

Multiple times you have cited the fact that the Brewers have Houser starting as proof that they see him as a starter and it's just kind of silly. Roles are fluid, and I don't think the Brewers are foolish enough to pigeonhole a guy solely based on the amount of pitches he can throw and say "this guy is a starter 100% of the time!" Again, roles are fluid. Peralta was a starter and now he's not. Woodruff was primarily a reliever last year and now he's a starter.

 

Sometimes, roles are determined not just by best fit but by the options you have available. Houser was already removed from the rotation once this year and put back in the pen, then was back into a starter's role when injuries occurred.

[MrTPlush]

“Who can you trust for the rotation?”

 

#1 it will be the off-season not August. We don’t need to settle for something we don’t necessarily want in the rotation. FA...trades.

 

Not saying he should be in the rotation or whatever...just pointing out the current roster is pretty meaningless for 2020. We could make A LOT of changes. These aren’t all our options.

[Brew crew 92]

I doubt I’m the only one, that after looking at the stats, thinks it may be a better option to have him in the pen in the future. Unless he can improve upon his 3rd time through the order (.364/.391/.727/1.119), then he probably doesn’t belong in our starting rotation going forward.

 

And I think I covered the fact of why this move was made when it was so the second post is pretty much, well, crap. But that doesn’t surprise me.

 

But it really doesn’t matter if there’s another poster or two that agree’s with you because the brewers don’t, and for good reason, and it’s called a pitcher with 4 pitches that he can locate = Starter 100% of the time.

 

Multiple times you have cited the fact that the Brewers have Houser starting as proof that they see him as a starter and it's just kind of silly. Roles are fluid, and I don't think the Brewers are foolish enough to pigeonhole a guy solely based on the amount of pitches he can throw and say "this guy is a starter 100% of the time!" Again, roles are fluid. Peralta was a starter and now he's not. Woodruff was primarily a reliever last year and now he's a starter.

 

Sometimes, roles are determined not just by best fit but by the options you have available. Houser was already removed from the rotation once this year and put back in the pen, then was back into a starter's role when injuries occurred.

 

OK, so let me get this straight, you agree that he should be a starter, and a potential number three, but you’re arguing with me for the sake of argument?

[adambr2]

I do agree with you in that I think Houser going forward is potentially a 3 in the rotation.

 

I don't agree that the way they've used him is a direct indication of what role they see him as.

 

I think failing better options, you'd have to go forward with him in the rotation, barring trades or signings for convincingly better starting options. But I don't think it's his most suitable role.