2019 NFL miscellaneous news

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Like I said earlier, they've already set a precedent of allowing pretty blah players in. It's not Cooperstown. But then it's odd that they stonewall guys like LeRoy Butler, who EASILY surpass the type of player they've allowed in. Show me why John Lynch and Brian Dawkins are in there and he's not. Name recognition is the only reason, and those two guys aren't even the kind of meh players I'm referring to.

[PeaveyFury]

Like I said earlier, they've already set a precedent of allowing pretty blah players in. It's not Cooperstown. But then it's odd that they stonewall guys like LeRoy Butler, who EASILY surpass the type of player they've allowed in. Show me why John Lynch and Brian Dawkins are in there and he's not. Name recognition is the only reason, and those two guys aren't even the kind of meh players I'm referring to.

 

I agree with you on Butler, but I'd be curious to know who you're considering 'blah' players?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Namath is pretty terrible compared with players from any era. He and George Blanda threw 40-50 more INTs than TDs. Namath in particular completed half his passes. He was just not very good, and benefited from New York, and really from one galvanizing moment for the league. The NFL lets guys in for one big thing like that, baseball really doesn't. The NFL also rewards being "pretty good" for a long period of time but there are a lot of guys in the hall that don't really embody greatness.

 

If you want to be shocked look up Troy Aikman. I couldn't believe how mediocre he was the first time I did, even with his peers. They were the offensive line and Emmitt Smith's team, and you can make an argument he was a big-game QB. The titles speak volumes for getting into Canton.

 

These kinds of guys make Eli's case though. I've just always thought it was very different from Cooperstown, where you can go pages and pages of debate about borderline guys. The NFL has few players like that, and almost all of the fringe guys do get in. Butler is almost definitely going to get in eventually.

 

Players like Scott Rolen and Cecil Cooper wouldn't have any trouble getting into the HOF with football's standards.

[JosephC]

IMO, the biggest "blah" in the NFL Hall of Fame is Lynn Swann.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

He's another great one. Titles and having a famous play.

[CheeseheadInQC]

To be fair, Bill Mazeroski is in the baseball hall of fame. I'm just saying ...

 

On Eli, during one of these debates a few years ago I created a statistical model to predict if a quarterback is a Hall of Famer (it correctly calls everyone except Namath and Ken Anderson, and no statistical model is going to put Namath in). I haven't updated it in a couple of years, but last time I looked Eli was behind guys like Mark Brunell, Donovan McNabb and Craig Morton. And that is with bonus points for Super Bowl titles.

[PeaveyFury]

These kinds of guys make Eli's case though. I've just always thought it was very different from Cooperstown, where you can go pages and pages of debate about borderline guys. The NFL has few players like that, and almost all of the fringe guys do get in.

 

I think you might be a little over-harsh on your criticism, as you named 2 guys out of the 350-ish that are in. I think Namath likely gets in more on his persona as a 'contributor' to the league's establishment and development more than anything. But I agree that his numbers are pretty poor. You could make a strong case for Aikman as a legit guy, as Smith almost certainly kept his TD numbers artifically low. But I'd like to see him ranked out vs. his peers in the 90's.

 

Show me why John Lynch and Brian Dawkins are in there and he's not.

 

Also worth noting that Lynch isn't in the HOF, but is also a finalist like Butler this year.

[homer]

Joe Namath's stats are pretty pedestrian. I realize most QB's of that era are as well but...dude only had 2 seasons where he threw more TD than INTs.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I didn't actually look anyone up. I just tossed Namath and Blanda out there. Lynn Swann is another great example. There are others. I thought Lynch was in, but must be remembering him getting further in the process than Butler a prior year, which is stupid because numbers wise he's not there.

 

I believe at the time of retirement, Butler was the only 40/20 player in NFL history. Or awfully close, he might have been a 1 or 2 short, but for some reason I remember the stat. He's been hurt by sharing a uniform with Favre and White, whereas Lynch was a star on a team known for defense.

 

This was recently a topic on Drew Olson's show, or whoever's show he's on, that the NFL Hall of Fame is kind of lame and doesn't carry the same prestige as baseball's. Baseball rejects a lot of really good players, for a long time without 3000 or 500 or Ozzie skills you had a hard time getting in.

[nate82]

The NFL's hall of fame is weird. You could make a case for a lot of players who should be in and then a case for a lot of players who should not be in. I always though Cunningham should have made it to the hall of fame. I think Cunningham was just born in the wrong time and if Cunningham were playing today he would be talked about being a once in a generation player. What is weird about Cunningham is that he could play in the NFL now and back in the 40's and 50's. But in the 90's forget about it he was just not a QB for that time period even though his numbers were not all that bad.

 

Moon is another player who would excel in the NFL today.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Cunningham's an interesting case because 1. How do you weigh the rushing stats and 2. He really only started started more than six games seven times. I believe he would have the fewest such seasons of any modern era Hall of Fame QB if he were put into the Hall.

 

I don't know that there are any real differences in the quality of the Hall of Famers, and some of the NFL ones cited at least have the old "Can you tell the story of the league without mentioning them?" argument. Although, to be fair, a lot of the questionable baseball ones are from the veterans committees. The NFL Hall also has a more difficult job because the differences in responsibilities between positions is greater than in baseball.

[adambr2]

Comparing players from different eras becomes difficult too. The game has changed so much over time that comparing positions becomes difficult.

 

Jan Stenerud, for example, is the first HOF kicker. But it was a different era -- he was a 67% kicker for his career which was very good at the time but wouldn't even get you into a training camp these days.

 

Baseball statistics are a little bit easier to compare and for the most part transcend time, at least in the live ball era.

[bjkrautk]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/27/report-cowboys-hire-scott-tolzien-as-coaching-assistant/

 

Interesting hire, I thought deserved a mention for all the Badger fans on the boards; he and Travis Frederick (then a Freshman) played together for parts of the 2009 season.

[MrTPlush]

I was going to mention this a few days ago, but I was shocked the NFL had not stepped in to try and help Antonio Brown...at least not publicly. Now Goodell has mentioned exactly that. With all the flak they have gotten in recent years plus the Aaron Hernandez documentary they really should be trying to save Antonio Brown before it is another disaster.

[PeaveyFury]

A little surprised that no one has noted that in addition to Dorsey, Eliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith have both quietly left the Browns. There were a lot of people that thought that front office was going to be a high-powered group with a lot of Packer ties. Apparently the grass wasn't greener....

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Wolf thought he was GM in the wings there so I'm not terribly surprised. I actually think Cleveland finally did something right though. A clean blow up. Don't bring in holdovers from this other place that bring in their other friends. They need to just blow the whole thing up and start from scratch. They probably have an OK QB which is a decent start.

[jerichoholicninja]

Wolf thought he was GM in the wings there so I'm not terribly surprised. I actually think Cleveland finally did something right though. A clean blow up. Don't bring in holdovers from this other place that bring in their other friends. They need to just blow the whole thing up and start from scratch. They probably have an OK QB which is a decent start.

 

Well, the guy they just hired used worked for them under Sashi Brown.

[PeaveyFury]

Steve Atwater was elected to the HOF yesterday, while Butler fell short. Fortunately for Butler, everyone on Twitter is correctly highlighting the fact that Butler outperformed Atwater in nearly every statistical category in his career. Butler is getting in at some point, but it probably should have been yesterday.

[CheezWizHed]

A little surprised that no one has noted that in addition to Dorsey, Eliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith have both quietly left the Browns. There were a lot of people that thought that front office was going to be a high-powered group with a lot of Packer ties. Apparently the grass wasn't greener....

 

And they found the grass to be Brown...

[nodakfan17]

A little surprised that no one has noted that in addition to Dorsey, Eliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith have both quietly left the Browns. There were a lot of people that thought that front office was going to be a high-powered group with a lot of Packer ties. Apparently the grass wasn't greener....

 

And they found the grass to be Brown...

Not having a meddling owner is a huge advantage. The Packers’ front office might not be batting .1000, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they’ve been a Top 5 franchise throughout the salary cap era.