Game 2: Vikings @ Packers - Sunday, Sept 15th Noon CT

[homer]

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2012/1128/20121128__121129Sack.jpg

[CheezWizHed]

I was surprised to find out how little offense the Vikings actually had for a 28 point win. 98 yards passing and 172 yards rushing (ok, that is a lot of rushing yards, but still under 300yds total for 28 points). Matt Ryan had 304 yards passing. So obviously turnovers were the key to the game.

 

Also interesting was the Packers Wire recap of that game that showed the stretch running play. Often the TE was motioned to the left and the team ran right (where there was no WR) on a zone block scheme. Thus, it reduced the defenders on the right side. Given some of our TE's lack of blocking prowess, that might be a decent idea to "steal".

[HiAndTight]

I was surprised to find out how little offense the Vikings actually had for a 28 point win. 98 yards passing and 172 yards rushing (ok, that is a lot of rushing yards, but still under 300yds total for 28 points). Matt Ryan had 304 yards passing. So obviously turnovers were the key to the game.

 

Also interesting was the Packers Wire recap of that game that showed the stretch running play. Often the TE was motioned to the left and the team ran right (where there was no WR) on a zone block scheme. Thus, it reduced the defenders on the right side. Given some of our TE's lack of blocking prowess, that might be a decent idea to "steal".

 

 

Well they were doing it with Fant quite a bit. A glorified WR'er at this point. When he did have to block, it was ugly.

 

But that's a good idea to switch it up, but a big concept of the zone stretch play is you get the whole defense going one way and that's where your cutback lanes are. Otherwise...it's just a stretch play.

 

Anyway, as for the Vikes-Falcons game, Matt Ryan played so poorly, or maybe it was the OC who called just an awful game.

 

The one thing that worries me a little from watching that game was they lined up Barr in sorta a 5-2 front. Anthony Barr came up and lined up outside Everson Griffen and one of the things that convinced him to come back to Minnesota last year was the promise that he'd rush the passer more. Well, when he came, Ryan had to get rid of the ball real quick. That type of pass rush would worry me not because of Barr, Bakh can shut him down, but Lane Taylor is going to have his hands full and I could easily see him getting replaced. The way he was thrown around one a few plays last year physically, then beaten with speed moves.

 

This is going to be a really interesting game. The Vikings defense is similar to the Bears but worst by a little at every level, BUT they have an elite WR'er duo, a really good vet TE, an explosive RB....and a terrible OL.

 

Their 1st round pick Bradbury was just awful last week. Packers are gonna need Kevin King to be able to play a bit more and Kenny Clark and the rest of that DL is gonna need to be destroying the Vikings OL.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

This has been bugging me while reading for days about how great Cook and the Vikings running game were on Sunday. On one of Cook's TDs, Thielen got away with an obvious hold. I saw a graphic somewhere, I think on the Ringer, about how great that play design was. It represented all the players on the field with circles, and as Cook's circle passed Thielen and the defender to the outside, the defender's circle was outside of Thielen's circle like he was just watching Cook run by him (which of course he wasn't, but couldn't attempt a tackle since he was being held by Thielen). Unfortunately as the narrative builds that a team is a great running team, I think they tend to get the benefit of the doubt a bit more on stuff like that (teams were always whining about the 1990's Badger teams getting away with a ton of holding).

 

Anyway, the ILBs better come to play on Sunday.

[HiAndTight]

This has been bugging me while reading for days about how great Cook and the Vikings running game were on Sunday. On one of Cook's TDs, Thielen got away with an obvious hold. I saw a graphic somewhere, I think on the Ringer, about how great that play design was. It represented all the players on the field with circles, and as Cook's circle passed Thielen and the defender to the outside, the defender's circle was outside of Thielen's circle like he was just watching Cook run by him (which of course he wasn't, but couldn't attempt a tackle since he was being held by Thielen). Unfortunately as the narrative builds that a team is a great running team, I think they tend to get the benefit of the doubt a bit more on stuff like that (teams were always whining about the 1990's Badger teams getting away with a ton of holding).

 

Anyway, the ILBs better come to play on Sunday.

 

 

Yeah, Thielen could have hooked him, but even if he's not there, there's a good chance Cook beats him. Cook is a problem for teams. I am confident that Kenny Clark and company can get up field and slow that game down. What killed the Falcons was the turnovers and blocked punt. The Vikings were getting the ball on the Falcons 25 yard line every series. Cousins didn't even throw for 100 yards and their rookie 1st rounder was absolutely terrible.

 

That OL can't pass block. We're gonna need King to come up big in that game along with Savage and Amos. But it'll definitely start up front, make Cousins beat you.

[Zad Fnark]

Taking this game will give Green Bay a heavily muscled leg up over the division.

[HiAndTight]

Taking this game will give Green Bay a heavily muscled leg up over the division.

 

 

The Packers would have to be huge favorites to win if they can win 2 out of 6 division games right out of the gate. Plus the Bears play the Rams and Saints while Minny has an even tougher schedule than us the next 5-6 weeks.

[tmwiese55]

Point spread is GB -3 and over/under 44 as of now. Pretty tough line IMO, I think I go MN if have to. Best bet maybe being the under?

 

Overall this is going to be a big litmus test for GB. Get this win and I think we can start to get excited again.

[KeithStone53151]

From what I saw, the Falcons have a small/fast defense...making them fairly easy to run on. The Packers this year have a lot of big dudes...it won't be as easy to muscle around our front 7.

[FVBrewerFan]

Hard to take a lot from the Falcons game, they clearly weren't ready to play. First play of the game, Barr rushes from the edge unblocked. Blocked punt, turnovers, just ugly. So they're down 14-0, eventually 28-0, and it's just a completely different type of football game. I do believe their defense is for real, but have no idea what their offense can do.

[MrTPlush]

I will take the Vikings

 

Prediction:

 

Offense still doesn't get it going and our defense isn't as good as they looked week one, but still solid.

 

24-17 Vikings

[CheezWizHed]

Hoping the RB screen is queued up this week (I actually hate the WR screen). Need some quick pass misdirection plays. And Rodgers needs to hike the ball with 5-10 seconds left so the DL isn't jumping at the zero point of the clock all the time. Frankly, I'd love to see one or two plays where Rodgers mosies up the the LOS and hikes the ball on the first sound with 20 seconds left on the play clock. Just go quick and stun them.

[homer]

Hoping the RB screen is queued up this week (I actually hate the WR screen). Need some quick pass misdirection plays. And Rodgers needs to hike the ball with 5-10 seconds left so the DL isn't jumping at the zero point of the clock all the time. Frankly, I'd love to see one or two plays where Rodgers mosies up the the LOS and hikes the ball on the first sound with 20 seconds left on the play clock. Just go quick and stun them.

 

I think he mentioned in the post-game that he has to do a better job getting them out of the huddle. Guessing they might be slow getting the play in too.

[FVBrewerFan]

Hoping the RB screen is queued up this week (I actually hate the WR screen). Need some quick pass misdirection plays. And Rodgers needs to hike the ball with 5-10 seconds left so the DL isn't jumping at the zero point of the clock all the time. Frankly, I'd love to see one or two plays where Rodgers mosies up the the LOS and hikes the ball on the first sound with 20 seconds left on the play clock. Just go quick and stun them.

 

Really under-utilized tool. Vary the timing of snap, turn hurry-up offense off and on every drive, even for a snap or two. Really keeps a defense off balance and messes with subbing. At this point though, I would be thrilled if majority of snaps came before 1 second on the play clock.

 

Oh, and boo to Tplush. Pack 23 Vikes 19

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I expect the Packers to contain Cook for the most part. They are going to make Cousins beat them. Can he? Personally I think he kind of sucks. Not to Trubisky’s level, but still pretty bad. Still, Vikings have a good defense, so I expect a low scoring game.

[nodakfan17]

Anyone else surprised that Gary Kubiak is an OC? Is he the first SB-winning HC to take a coordinator job? I know he had some health concerns that forced him into an administrative role with the Broncos, but his current job seems beneath him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Anyone else surprised that Gary Kubiak is an OC? Is he the first SB-winning HC to take a coordinator job? I know he had some health concerns that forced him into an administrative role with the Broncos, but his current job seems beneath him.

 

He's not even the OC. Kevin Stefanski is. Kubiak is assistant head coach.

 

He is the first Super Bowl winning HC to resurface as an assistant later on, but several SB losers have taken that route, including Ken Wisenhunt, Jim Caldwell, Bill Callahan, Jim Fassel, Sam Wyche, Raymond Berry, and John Rauch.

[nodakfan17]

Anyone else surprised that Gary Kubiak is an OC? Is he the first SB-winning HC to take a coordinator job? I know he had some health concerns that forced him into an administrative role with the Broncos, but his current job seems beneath him.

 

He's not even the OC. Kevin Stefanski is. Kubiak is assistant head coach.

 

He is the first Super Bowl winning HC to resurface as an assistant later on, but several SB losers have taken that route, including Ken Wisenhunt, Jim Caldwell, Bill Callahan, Jim Fassel, Sam Wyche, Raymond Berry, and John Rauch.

Thanks for the research. Maybe his health issues prevent him from accepting too much responsibility? Seems like a reasonable approach if he enjoys coaching. I thought he would have been content in Denver working in an administrative capacity.

[OldHeidelberg]

Hoping the RB screen is queued up this week (I actually hate the WR screen). Need some quick pass misdirection plays. And Rodgers needs to hike the ball with 5-10 seconds left so the DL isn't jumping at the zero point of the clock all the time. Frankly, I'd love to see one or two plays where Rodgers mosies up the the LOS and hikes the ball on the first sound with 20 seconds left on the play clock. Just go quick and stun them.

 

Griffen's entire game is pretty much now just guessing the snap, great chance to get some free plays but not if you run the clock down to :01.

 

One thing that worries me after the Bear game is the holding penalties. I remember seeing the announcement that the NFL was cracking down on it scroll across the bottom of the screen on ESPN and right away thought Bak and his outside technique was going to get hammered early in the season, sort of like Clay's "late" hits last year. Those are drive killers this offense can't overcome right now.

 

The Packers played 6 DB's almost the entire game last week and the Bears threw 45 times. If we can stop the run playing that way all year this defense is going to have a big season, but it's possible the Bears just screwed up on their play calling. This should be a big test, the Vikings have good skill players but a crappy line.

[HiAndTight]

Hoping the RB screen is queued up this week (I actually hate the WR screen). Need some quick pass misdirection plays. And Rodgers needs to hike the ball with 5-10 seconds left so the DL isn't jumping at the zero point of the clock all the time. Frankly, I'd love to see one or two plays where Rodgers mosies up the the LOS and hikes the ball on the first sound with 20 seconds left on the play clock. Just go quick and stun them.

 

Griffen's entire game is pretty much now just guessing the snap, great chance to get some free plays but not if you run the clock down to :01.

 

One thing that worries me after the Bear game is the holding penalties. I remember seeing the announcement that the NFL was cracking down on it scroll across the bottom of the screen on ESPN and right away thought Bak and his outside technique was going to get hammered early in the season, sort of like Clay's "late" hits last year. Those are drive killers this offense can't overcome right now.

 

The Packers played 6 DB's almost the entire game last week and the Bears threw 45 times. If we can stop the run playing that way all year this defense is going to have a big season, but it's possible the Bears just screwed up on their play calling. This should be a big test, the Vikings have good skill players but a crappy line.

 

I think you're vastly underestimating what he can still do. He absolutely blew past Matthews last week, a pretty solid LT with some spin moves and speed rushes where Matthews barely got a finger on him. If they go back to that 5 man front look and Taylor has to fan out, Griffen is going to kill him with that inside move.

 

As for Bakh, I'm not really worried. He's plenty talented enough to change it up and he was going up against some power rushers last week. What I'm worried about is that back injury keeping him out or making him less effective as I have zero confidence in Billy Turner sliding out to LT.

[HiAndTight]

Hoping the RB screen is queued up this week (I actually hate the WR screen). Need some quick pass misdirection plays. And Rodgers needs to hike the ball with 5-10 seconds left so the DL isn't jumping at the zero point of the clock all the time. Frankly, I'd love to see one or two plays where Rodgers mosies up the the LOS and hikes the ball on the first sound with 20 seconds left on the play clock. Just go quick and stun them.

 

Griffen's entire game is pretty much now just guessing the snap, great chance to get some free plays but not if you run the clock down to :01.

 

One thing that worries me after the Bear game is the holding penalties. I remember seeing the announcement that the NFL was cracking down on it scroll across the bottom of the screen on ESPN and right away thought Bak and his outside technique was going to get hammered early in the season, sort of like Clay's "late" hits last year. Those are drive killers this offense can't overcome right now.

 

The Packers played 6 DB's almost the entire game last week and the Bears threw 45 times. If we can stop the run playing that way all year this defense is going to have a big season, but it's possible the Bears just screwed up on their play calling. This should be a big test, the Vikings have good skill players but a crappy line.

 

I think you're vastly underestimating what he can still do. He absolutely blew past Matthews last week, a pretty solid LT with some spin moves and speed rushes where Matthews barely got a finger on him. If they go back to that 5 man front look and Taylor has to fan out, Griffen is going to kill him with that inside move.

 

As for Bakh, I'm not really worried. He's plenty talented enough to change it up and he was going up against some power rushers last week. What I'm worried about is that back injury keeping him out or making him less effective as I have zero confidence in Billy Turner sliding out to LT.

[OldHeidelberg]

 

I think you're vastly underestimating what he can still do. He absolutely blew past Matthews last week, a pretty solid LT with some spin moves and speed rushes where Matthews barely got a finger on him. If they go back to that 5 man front look and Taylor has to fan out, Griffen is going to kill him with that inside move.

 

As for Bakh, I'm not really worried. He's plenty talented enough to change it up and he was going up against some power rushers last week. What I'm worried about is that back injury keeping him out or making him less effective as I have zero confidence in Billy Turner sliding out to LT.

 

I am sure you are right, his "entire game" was a bad choice of words when I really just meant he is a declining player who has always gambled to get that first step. I didn't see that much of the Atlanta game.

[HiAndTight]

 

I think you're vastly underestimating what he can still do. He absolutely blew past Matthews last week, a pretty solid LT with some spin moves and speed rushes where Matthews barely got a finger on him. If they go back to that 5 man front look and Taylor has to fan out, Griffen is going to kill him with that inside move.

 

As for Bakh, I'm not really worried. He's plenty talented enough to change it up and he was going up against some power rushers last week. What I'm worried about is that back injury keeping him out or making him less effective as I have zero confidence in Billy Turner sliding out to LT.

 

I am sure you are right, his "entire game" was a bad choice of words when I really just meant he is a declining player who has always gambled to get that first step. I didn't see that much of the Atlanta game.

 

 

Well....I did not realize he was 32. I thought he and Hunter were closer in age. I DID see reasonable Vikings fans say that Hunter has more upside than anyone in the NFL at DE. Seriously. More than Myles Garrett, the best player on the team that got the most pub in the off-season the Browns. Better than Clowney who's not actually playing his natural position as a 4-3 end. I guess it HAS to be limited to 43 ends because if you throw in OLB'ers or 3-4 ends like Donald, Watt, Mack, it gets more ridiculous and this guy wasn't a total homer.

 

 

Anyway, I demand at least an opinion on my "trade for Minkah Fitzpatrick trade idea. I thought i was dropping a gem. A brilliant idea. Trade for a guy we'd have taken last year ahead of Alexander who can play Corner, Safety and is the perfect mix with Pettine. I feel like Bill Burr screaming in my head, "give me something here, c'mon..."

 

Though...I guess if nobody has replied, then people aren't excited.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Minkah to GB is being talked to death on busier Packers forums and just about everyone is for it depending on price. Your "gem" is everyone else's "no duh".

[HiAndTight]

Minkah to GB is being talked to death on busier Packers forums and just about everyone is for it depending on price. Your "gem" is everyone else's "no duh".

 

 

In case anyone missed it, I think I was laying it on pretty thick by calling the suggestion of trading for Fitzpatrick as my "gem." That said, I don't spend much time on the other forums except for this one during the week. I actually thought it was a bit of an out of the box type of idea to try and trade for a guy who's labeled more of a safety than he is a corner.

I mean, of course everyone throws out ideas about whoever is asking for a trade at a given time, if they're a high profile player, there's going to be a lot of discussion about that player. Antonio Brown, Clowney, Earl Thomas...but with a guy on the worst team in the league who came in without a position? I really didn't think that'd be that popular of an idea beyond the trade for everyone," group.

 

But since it's been discussed, what's your opinion? Obviously if you're got a player from last year who had a very strong rookie year, even thrived playing outside at CB, but profiles best as a Charles Woodson later Packer years type player when he was in GB, blitzing off the slot, playing a lot of press man and who is physical enough to play the run, but not the type of safety the Dolphins are trying to turn him into, a in the box Nickel LB'er.

 

I think the Dolphins are looking ahead at 2021 moreso than 2020 to try and really start building that team-up. That should be the year that Lawrence is the top pick, there's no reason to think that the Fins won't be the worst team in the NFL the last two years.

 

So you're looking at a 1st+. The only young guys I see that would fit in with the Dolphins time line and agenda would be Josh Jackson, Scantlin and St. Brown. Jackson has a little value left as a 2nd rounder from just last year, Scantling I'd think has quite a bit given his talent and ascension to one of the Packers starters and St. Brown is on IR...but he's a helluva talent. 6'5, elite speed, athleticism. I'd put Jackson's trade value at about a 4th/5th maybe, St. Brown as a 5th or later and Scantling as a 3/4.

 

 

So if the Packers offer a 2020 1st and Josh Jackson who says no? The Dolphins or the Packers? My guess is Dolphins.

 

 

Man that'd be a potentially dominant secondary. I know it's a huge if, but if King could stay healthy, this could be a really good secondary this year. If they could add a dynamic, roaming playmaker, that could help catapult the Packers D into the Bears/Vikings category...as unlikely as it may be.