Is Counsell the Right Manager for the Brewers?

[MrTPlush]

What exactly is the difference between guys trying to get on in front of Yelich and those guys behind him trying to drive him in? Either way you need them to get on to either have him drive them in or them drive him in.

 

It is all the same, just a different order.

[FVBrewerFan]

You also have a better chance to get Yelich one more AB each game batting him 2nd vs 3rd.

[RollieTime]

I think where you can really tell how well a manager manages is in how they handle their lineups/frequent lineup changes, and bullpen management. I personally don’t think he does either one particularly well. I know people have questioned a lot of the lineups this season, why certain guys are benched after playing well or why the lineup continues to flip day in and day out. Again, I think there’s a lot of merit in guys playing better when playing almost every day instead of trying to keep everybody “involved” and throwing multiple different players into the lineup almost daily, shuffling the batting order, and guys not knowing when they will be starting or not. You can’t measure the mindset of players, but the mindset of knowing you’re in the lineup whether you’re playing well or in a 2-18 stretch is big for players. I think it’s possible that some of the guys on the roster might think they don’t have the confidence of the manager, which could lead to poor results and some type of disconnect. Doesn’t mean the players aren’t trying though.

 

You need to be more specific on what you are saying man. So he should stick with Shaw and get him consistent at bats? Aguilar? Cain? Should he play Cain over Grisham right now? Should he give Perez consistent at bats over Arcia or vice versa?

 

If he plays guys that are struggling he gets yelled at. If he sits them he is now getting yelled at.

 

Some of it is when guys are playing well, keep the hot bat in the lineup instead of benching them. If a guy goes 3-4, keep him in the lineup the next game.

 

The other part about constantly changing the lineup. I think guys play better when they get consistent at bats. Look at the lineup from the last three games:

 

Grisham Grisham Cain

Thames Grandal Grandal

Yelich Yelich Yelich

Hiura Moose Hiura

Moose Hiura Braun

Pina Thames Thames

Gamel Gamel Perez

Arcia Arcia Arcia

P P P

 

I just think it’s quite a bit of change for facing 3 righties in a row. Moose has been hot, had an 0-4 game, and gets benched yesterday. While facing a righty. In favor of Perez. Also, prior to Yelich moving to the 3 hole, how many times was our 3-6 hitters constantly in flux? I highly doubt that other playoff contending teams are constantly changing/platooning their leadoff guy and 3-6 hitters like the Brewers tend to do and have done this season (Thames/Aguilar, Shaw/Perez, Gamel/Braun, Grisham/Braun, Gamel/Cain). I think a couple platoons are fine if you don’t need to completely change your lineup, like how they did from the last two games shown above. I know guys need days off during the year, but it just gets ridiculous at times. It looks like I’m one of the few that thinks platoons and constantly changing lineups can be counter-productive. I guess we can agree to disagree that inconsistent playing time affects the results on the field.

[FVBrewerFan]

That looks pretty consistent to me, and I would bet if you pick any random three game stretch from any contender it would be very similar. Plus, you realize Cain is battling injuries. They are simply not changing the line-up anywhere near as much as you think they are, and no more than any other team. You can tell by the number of ABs the bench guys have had- Gamel, Perez, etc.

[bill hAll Star]

I think in some cases where a guy has the talent and is hitting, you keep him in the lineup, sure. Or maybe a hitter that relies on timing just has his locked in then maybe he should ride the hot streak.

 

Outside of that, I think the fact that a lot of smart GMs (passing info down to managers) DON'T play a "hot bat" in a bad matchup is probably a pretty good indicator that the "hot bat" idea is just a cliche that fans have made up and is just not true.

 

I'll bring it up again - everyone wanted "hot bat" Grisham to stick in the lineup more against lefties and he couldn't even keep it going only facing righties. I think the response to that was, "yeah, he was messed with by being on the bench" which is very likely not true if he couldn't even hit the guys that should be easier for him to hit.

[bill hAll Star]

I highly doubt that other playoff contending teams are constantly changing/platooning their leadoff guy and 3-6 hitters like the Brewers tend to do and have done this season (Thames/Aguilar, Shaw/Perez, Gamel/Braun, Grisham/Braun, Gamel/Cain)..

 

Well, you're half right here.

 

Just like, "really good teams don't pull their starters in the 5th every night." That's because those teams have Verlander/Greinke/Cole or Clevenger/Bieber/Kluber (when healthy). They still pull Adam Plutko in the 5th because it's the best thing you can do to win in modern baseball.

 

Same thing here...Houston doesn't platoon as much because they have about 7 All Star caliber players that hit both hand of pitchers pretty well. However, a lot of contending teams in the past 5 or so years have platooned their lineups to the gills. If you don't have the money or the fortune of being loaded with 6-7 guys that shouldn't be platooned...you platoon. This is how Tampa and Oakland have been competitive in a lot of the last 5-10 years.

 

The Dodgers have platooned half of their lineup in recent years and have done just fine.

[owbc]

I would argue Counsell is doing a better managing job in 2019 than 2018.

 

Currently the Brewers are 4 games ahead of their Pythagorean, last year they finished 5 games ahead.

 

However, much of last year's success was based on having a plus bullpen which makes life easy for a manager. This year they are still beating expectations by a similar rate despite a terrible bullpen, more injuries, and generally more adversity.

 

He might be the only one saving this team from 75 wins.

[Smichaelis9]

I highly doubt that other playoff contending teams are constantly changing/platooning their leadoff guy and 3-6 hitters like the Brewers tend to do and have done this season (Thames/Aguilar, Shaw/Perez, Gamel/Braun, Grisham/Braun, Gamel/Cain)..

 

Well, you're half right here.

 

Just like, "really good teams don't pull their starters in the 5th every night." That's because those teams have Verlander/Greinke/Cole or Clevenger/Bieber/Kluber (when healthy). They still pull Adam Plutko in the 5th because it's the best thing you can do to win in modern baseball.

 

Same thing here...Houston doesn't platoon as much because they have about 7 All Star caliber players that hit both hand of pitchers pretty well. However, a lot of contending teams in the past 5 or so years have platooned their lineups to the gills. If you don't have the money or the fortune of being loaded with 6-7 guys that shouldn't be platooned...you platoon. This is how Tampa and Oakland have been competitive in a lot of the last 5-10 years.

 

The Dodgers have platooned half of their lineup in recent years and have done just fine.

This is exactly it. Look at Woodruff, Craig let him go deep into games because he maintains his stuff and command as well as having better stuff than anyone else who starts for us. If we had 5 Woody’s we wouldn’t see our guys get pulled before the third time through as often as we do right now.

[danzig6767]

 

I just think it’s quite a bit of change for facing 3 righties in a row. Moose has been hot, had an 0-4 game, and gets benched yesterday. While facing a righty. In favor of Perez.

Moustakas wasn't "benched" because he went 0-4 in the previous game. Counsell said that he simply wanted to give Moustakas a day off after the series in Washington with lots of hot/humid weather and a 14 inning game.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The Brewers have had 105 different batting orders. The Dodgers have had 104 different batting orders. They move guys all over the place.

 

Dodgers have had 9 different lead off hittters, and 7 different guys hit 2nd. Their most used lineup has been used a whopping total of 3 times. Meh.

[balsamlaker]

He is the right manager for the Brewers and a very good manager (top 5 or 10). If the Brewers let him go, there would likely be teams in the league that would get rid of their current manager for the chance to have him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

He is the right manager for the Brewers and a very good manager (top 5 or 10). If the Brewers let him go, there would likely be teams in the league that would get rid of their current manager for the chance to have him.

 

Yes, without a doubt. This is yet another case of "the grass is always greener" philosophy that tends to pop up for fans of a team that performs below expectations.

[wildcat83]

 

I personally do not like how he very rarely stands up for his players during games. Brewers pitchers will get squeezed and the hitters will get rung up on terrible calls, and Counsell will shake his head in the dugout and that’s it. It could just be my opinion, but when I played and when I watch games, I have much more respect for a coach that will stick up for his guys and let the umpire know he screwed up. I don’t see this at all from Counsell. He is a fairly reserved manager, lacks outward passion for the game, and always seems bored and uninterested.

 

This paragraph is just all kinds of wrong. A manager doesn’t need to throw a public tantrum to back his players. Showing the world you have no self control proves nothing about backing your players.

 

This also does nothing to get calls. If you think an ump is going to take a brow beating from a manager and then turn around and give them more calls your crazy. If anything it’s the exact opposite. I have a lot of experience umping/reffing multiple sports. I try not to let anything a coach says change anything I would call, but if a coach is on me the whole game, the last thing I’m going to do is reward him with some calls.

 

I don’t want to take my kid to a game and have him see anyone on the field loose it and go off on an ump.

 

To take this a step further, this attitude and belief is a huge factor in a growing issue for youth sports, and that’s a huge lack of licensed officials. Young people that get into officiating are not staying long term. The biggest reason they are quitting is the verbal abuse they get from coaches and fans. It’s going to be a large issue for youth sports very soon if the trend doesn’t change.

 

Beyond that, I like Counsel a lot and think he’s here for a long time. This team might not be living up to fan expectations, but they’ve exceeded most projections to this point. Counsel is well respected by the players. We could have a lot worse!

[benji]

Its a shame he hasnt won manager of the year in 2017 or 2018. I think he does a great job.

 

 

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[jerichoholicninja]

Only 2 real complaints about Craig:

 

1. His love affair with crappy veteran players. Although this goes back before Counsell and Stearns and is probably a league wide issue.

2. His ho-hum demeanor/expression about everything. Every time he goes to the mound to make a pitching change he looks like he has other things he would rather be doing. And while I know it probably does not make one bit of a difference it would be nice to see him lay in to an umpire every now and then. I really like last year when he finally did after losing like 1000 replay challenges in a row.

[areacodes]

Only 2 real complaints about Craig:

 

1. His love affair with crappy veteran players. Although this goes back before Counsell and Stearns and is probably a league wide issue.

2. His ho-hum demeanor/expression about everything. Every time he goes to the mound to make a pitching change he looks like he has other things he would rather be doing. And while I know it probably does not make one bit of a difference it would be nice to see him lay in to an umpire every now and then. I really like last year when he finally did after losing like 1000 replay challenges in a row.

 

How many times is “every now and then” with regards to laying into an ump? He’s been ejected twice this season and that included the shouting match with Mike Estabrook. Best I can tell, over his managing career it looks like he’s been ejected 14 times.

[FVBrewerFan]

Only 2 real complaints about Craig:

 

1. His love affair with crappy veteran players. Although this goes back before Counsell and Stearns and is probably a league wide issue.

2. His ho-hum demeanor/expression about everything. Every time he goes to the mound to make a pitching change he looks like he has other things he would rather be doing. And while I know it probably does not make one bit of a difference it would be nice to see him lay in to an umpire every now and then. I really like last year when he finally did after losing like 1000 replay challenges in a row.

 

Yea, #1 is a favorite in the IGTs with no basis of fact. Arcia and now Hiura play all rye rime, while the crappy veteran Perez hardly ever gets a start.

 

#2 is typical fan stuff, how a manager should act a certain way, as if that matters whatsoever. True, having CC go all Earl Weaver would be entertaining but it wouldn't win any games.

[DHonks]

Some people think rookies and young players are inherently better. Hiura is a big leaguer for hitting, but he plays pretty good defense for a DH. He’s a better 2b than Weeks was...that’s not a compliment

[SomewhereInTime]

"I made my decision a couple years ago that I didn’t think he is the right guy for the job. I don’t like the way he handles the bullpen. Too many times where it is obvious to everybody (except Counsell) who should be brought in, but he will go with somebody that is struggling instead. His in game managing is questionable at best."

 

Said by fans of every team, every season, for the whole history of baseball.

[Brew crew 92]

Imo, 2019 has been a bad year for Counsell. But he’s done a good job overall prior so, like Stearns a mulligan is in order. One thing I don’t like, and I’m pretty sure it’s the personnel, but, let’s put some runners in motion, hit and run, if nothing else it might just help mentally with the team’s ridiculously bad RISP failure.

[homer]

The Brewers won yesterday, therefore, I think he his a good manager. My opinion is subject to change pending the results of the next game.

[FVBrewerFan]

Imo, 2019 has been a bad year for Counsell. But he’s done a good job overall prior so, like Stearns a mulligan is in order. One thing I don’t like, and I’m pretty sure it’s the personnel, but, let’s put some runners in motion, hit and run, if nothing else it might just help mentally with the team’s ridiculously bad RISP failure.

 

Hit and run is dead, just like sac bunts. Analytics show giving up outs on the basepaths is not a good idea. Especially these days when K rates are so high across MLB. So if you don't like CC, you're not going to like any other manager.

 

Just guessing but I'm sure that's not your only beef with CC, probably something about bullpen use. Yet he has the team on the fringe of playoff contention with a -35 run differential. As long as he gets a mulligan from you though, CC will sleep well tonight.

[tmwiese55]

I mean, Brewers are 7th in MLB in stolen bases and 3rd in NL. I don't know how one can use lack of running game against them. Somebody not fast just the other day was running on a 3-2 pitch without 2 outs, don't recall who, might've been Grandal.

[Brew crew 92]

Imo, 2019 has been a bad year for Counsell. But he’s done a good job overall prior so, like Stearns a mulligan is in order. One thing I don’t like, and I’m pretty sure it’s the personnel, but, let’s put some runners in motion, hit and run, if nothing else it might just help mentally with the team’s ridiculously bad RISP failure.

 

Hit and run is dead, just like sac bunts. Analytics show giving up outs on the basepaths is not a good idea. Especially these days when K rates are so high across MLB. So if you don't like CC, you're not going to like any other manager.

 

Just guessing but I'm sure that's not your only beef with CC, probably something about bullpen use. Yet he has the team on the fringe of playoff contention with a -35 run differential. As long as he gets a mulligan from you though, CC will sleep well tonight.

 

Of course his bullpen decisions have not been good, I think most would agree.

 

With the right personnel, it is done, the Braves and pirates as an example. I was bringing it up because, as bad as this team is at getting runners to cross home plate without benefit of the home run, maybe just maybe what have we got to lose by changing things up, like I said maybe mentally it can help the batter? I’d hit and run with Grisham. Maybe the worst RISP batters Moose Cain Arcia, it could help?

[bm1090]

The bullpen decisions have not been good because we have no reliable relievers coming out of the bullpen.