Shortstop for 2020

[long ball]

Speaking of the Dodgers, now that they got bum rushed from the playoffs again, if they go spend big in free agency will they have the luxury of affording Chris Taylor on the bench? Taylor is eligible for arby this offseason and made $3.5M; he'll be due a raise. The Dodgers have a lot of $ coming off the books, but they also have Lux knocking on the door and may go with Lux or Beaty as the 2B for salary cap purposes.

 

Taylor may be too pricey to keep on the bench with Turner and Seager ahead of him.

 

Ya I was thinking this while watching the game the other day. I'm not sure what Enrique Hernandez's full time capability at SS would be but he's another guy. Arb 3 this year. $5.5mm projection from MLBtr. He's played a fair amount of innings there though. Taylor would probably be a more reliable every day option.

[clancyphile]

Villar is listed among potential non-tenders for 2020 by MLB.com.

https://www.mlb.com/news/non-tender-candidates-2019-2020-offseason

 

More interesting to me is Cesar Hernandez

https://www.mlb.com/player/cesar-hernandez-514917?stats=career-r-hitting-mlb&year=2019

 

Primarily a 2B, but has played some at short, third, and center field. He's a switch-hitter with a career .733 OPS, had a .741 OPS in 2019, and prior to 2019 showed the ability to get a LOT of walks.

 

Worst case, a slight upgrade over Hernan Perez as utility player, but I think he'd be worth replacing Orlando Arcia at shortstop. If he reverts to his pre-2019 form in drawing walks, I think he becomes a BIG upgrade that can be had relatively cheap.

[sveumrules]

I saw Orlando Arcia walking down Wisconsin Avenue today, for whatever that is or isn't worth.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think the Orioles would tender Villar and attempt to trade him rather than just dump him for nothing.

[clancyphile]

I think the Orioles would tender Villar and attempt to trade him rather than just dump him for nothing.

 

I see them trying to do that as well... albeit they may not like the return they get for Villar. Too many teams will wonder if they get the 2016/2019 version or the 2017-2018 version.

 

No way do I go for Villar unless it's pretty much for free.

[rickh150]

Ha! All this Villar love.... it's a little different pitching to Villar when you are usually ahead by 5 and your primary goal is to not walk anyone. How no one talks about his at bats when they technically do not matter, whether in blowout game situation or even the entire game itself with no pressures for the 100 loss team, is puzzling. He was a wreck on the bases too; nobody in the history of the franchise was worse. Easy pass. Glad he is doing well for others on a bad team.

 

I wonder, did you post this about Yelich on the Marlins too? Or is it just because you didn’t like Villar.... hmm.

 

Villar walked 61 times last year which would have been 3rd on our team. Imagine if the goal wasn’t to walk anyone... whatever that means.

 

Oh, I don't like Villar's game.... specifically his poor baserunning, complained about that for years. His defense and free swinging tendency bothered me too. He had waaaaay too long of a leash in Milwaukee. Glad he is having success, though. Yelich? Way different type of player in Miami.... happy to get him at the time... hmm.

 

For clarification, when the Orioles are down by 5 in the 7th, most pitchers simply want the hitter to earn their base, ala no walks. That plays into a free swinger like Villar, who can hit over the plate meatball HRs and RBIs when the limelight, urgency, and need is off.

[clancyphile]

Oh, I don't like Villar's game.... specifically his poor baserunning, complained about that for years. His defense and free swinging tendency bothered me too. He had waaaaay too long of a leash in Milwaukee. Glad he is having success, though. Yelich? Way different type of player in Miami.... happy to get him at the time... hmm.

 

For clarification, when the Orioles are down by 5 in the 7th, most pitchers simply want the hitter to earn their base, ala no walks. That plays into a free swinger like Villar, who can hit over the plate meatball HRs and RBIs when the limelight, urgency, and need is off.

 

I'd agree. At this point, if the Orioles non-tender Villar, and he wants to come to Milwaukee on a cheap one-year deal, I'd take him if it was no more than $2 million.

 

But at this point, someone like Cesar Hernandez would be a better option. Comes cheap, especially if non-tendered, no baggage from a bad relationship with Counsell, and provides excellent OBP skills.

[wntrtxn21]

Oh, I don't like Villar's game.... specifically his poor baserunning, complained about that for years. His defense and free swinging tendency bothered me too. He had waaaaay too long of a leash in Milwaukee. Glad he is having success, though. Yelich? Way different type of player in Miami.... happy to get him at the time... hmm.

 

For clarification, when the Orioles are down by 5 in the 7th, most pitchers simply want the hitter to earn their base, ala no walks. That plays into a free swinger like Villar, who can hit over the plate meatball HRs and RBIs when the limelight, urgency, and need is off.

 

I'd agree. At this point, if the Orioles non-tender Villar, and he wants to come to Milwaukee on a cheap one-year deal, I'd take him if it was no more than $2 million.

 

But at this point, someone like Cesar Hernandez would be a better option. Comes cheap, especially if non-tendered, no baggage from a bad relationship with Counsell, and provides excellent OBP skills.

 

Hernandez would not come cheap. He's already making $7.75M and very likely will get an increase on that, even if the Phils trade him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Oh, I don't like Villar's game.... specifically his poor baserunning, complained about that for years. His defense and free swinging tendency bothered me too. He had waaaaay too long of a leash in Milwaukee. Glad he is having success, though. Yelich? Way different type of player in Miami.... happy to get him at the time... hmm.

 

For clarification, when the Orioles are down by 5 in the 7th, most pitchers simply want the hitter to earn their base, ala no walks. That plays into a free swinger like Villar, who can hit over the plate meatball HRs and RBIs when the limelight, urgency, and need is off.

 

I'd agree. At this point, if the Orioles non-tender Villar, and he wants to come to Milwaukee on a cheap one-year deal, I'd take him if it was no more than $2 million.

 

But at this point, someone like Cesar Hernandez would be a better option. Comes cheap, especially if non-tendered, no baggage from a bad relationship with Counsell, and provides excellent OBP skills.

 

Hernandez has roughly 120 career innings as a SS, and other than a 4-inning stint in 2017, and 20 innings in 2016, he hasn't appeared there since 2015. I'm guessing there is a reason. His defensive stats as a SS are not exactly impressive, which is why I'm guessing he hasn't appeared there.

 

With Hiura at 2B, I think they need a solid fielder at SS.

[brooks_quichenick]

Don't know how realistic this is, but what about Andrelton Simmons? He's due to make $15 million in 2020, but then becomes a FA, so as a 1 year rental wouldn't be as expensive as he'd be otherwise. Bit of an injury-plagued year this year, but when healthy he's as good as it gets defensively, and he seemed to have figured it out offensively in the last few years. High average/contact, rarely strikes out, has a little pop and can steal a few bags.

[MadThinker88]

Don't know how realistic this is, but what about Andrelton Simmons? He's due to make $15 million in 2020, but then becomes a FA, so as a 1 year rental wouldn't be as expensive as he'd be otherwise. Bit of an injury-plagued year this year, but when healthy he's as good as it gets defensively, and he seemed to have figured it out offensively in the last few years. High average/contact, rarely strikes out, has a little pop and can steal a few bags.

 

You might be looking at the right team but perhaps the wrong guy.

Angels like Simmons (a lot, they dealt to get him). They would be looking for a lot to deal him. But they have salary tied up in another player that is coming back from a shoulder issue and is also a FA after 2020.

 

Zack Cozart might be a buy low candidate where the Angels even eat some salary in the deal (he is set to get $12.67M)..

The Angels moved him over to 3B when they signed him but he has struggled huge in the AL. Perhaps a move back to the NL (& SS) would be a boost for his performance..

Maybe a change of scenery for both him and Shaw would work. Just a spitball thought...

[reillymcshane]

Speaking of the Dodgers, now that they got bum rushed from the playoffs again, if they go spend big in free agency will they have the luxury of affording Chris Taylor on the bench? Taylor is eligible for arby this offseason and made $3.5M; he'll be due a raise. The Dodgers have a lot of $ coming off the books, but they also have Lux knocking on the door and may go with Lux or Beaty as the 2B for salary cap purposes.

 

Taylor may be too pricey to keep on the bench with Turner and Seager ahead of him.

Taylor is an interesting option. Had not thought about him.

[BrewForLife]

Speaking of the Dodgers, now that they got bum rushed from the playoffs again, if they go spend big in free agency will they have the luxury of affording Chris Taylor on the bench? Taylor is eligible for arby this offseason and made $3.5M; he'll be due a raise. The Dodgers have a lot of $ coming off the books, but they also have Lux knocking on the door and may go with Lux or Beaty as the 2B for salary cap purposes.

 

Taylor may be too pricey to keep on the bench with Turner and Seager ahead of him.

Taylor is an interesting option. Had not thought about him.

 

Taylor had the 4th most starts at 2B and Lux is viewed by many as a 2B moving forward.

EHernandez may be the one they try and move as he has a 3.5ish salary and his WAR was 1.5 where Taylor had a 2.4.

[Eye Black]

Speaking of the Dodgers, now that they got bum rushed from the playoffs again, if they go spend big in free agency will they have the luxury of affording Chris Taylor on the bench? Taylor is eligible for arby this offseason and made $3.5M; he'll be due a raise. The Dodgers have a lot of $ coming off the books, but they also have Lux knocking on the door and may go with Lux or Beaty as the 2B for salary cap purposes.

 

Taylor may be too pricey to keep on the bench with Turner and Seager ahead of him.

Taylor is an interesting option. Had not thought about him.

If they were willing to trade him, I hope the Brewers would be interested in Chris Taylor. His ceiling might not be particularly high, but he seems like a safe bet to offer solid production. I think his presence as a good right-handed bat would help stabilize the lineup.

 

Also, Taylor is an example of how the Dodgers’ emphasis on developing defensive versatility over the past 5 years has really paid off. Players like Taylor are seemingly far more valuable in the context of being able to adequately cover 3-4 different positions with regularity.

[wntrtxn21]

Speaking of the Dodgers, now that they got bum rushed from the playoffs again, if they go spend big in free agency will they have the luxury of affording Chris Taylor on the bench? Taylor is eligible for arby this offseason and made $3.5M; he'll be due a raise. The Dodgers have a lot of $ coming off the books, but they also have Lux knocking on the door and may go with Lux or Beaty as the 2B for salary cap purposes.

 

Taylor may be too pricey to keep on the bench with Turner and Seager ahead of him.

Taylor is an interesting option. Had not thought about him.

If they were willing to trade him, I hope the Brewers would be interested in Chris Taylor. His ceiling might not be particularly high, but he seems like a safe bet to offer solid production. I think his presence as a good right-handed bat would help stabilize the lineup.

 

Also, Taylor is an example of how the Dodgers’ emphasis on developing defensive versatility over the past 5 years has really paid off. Players like Taylor are seemingly far more valuable in the context of being able to adequately cover 3-4 different positions with regularity.

 

Taylor is an OF who can play infield if needed. Versatile, but it looks like his arby value number is going to be around $5M. With Stearns looking for money to re-sign Moose, Grandal, Lyles, Pomeranz, etc... I think Tayor is going to be too expensive for the Brewers for a bench player.

[wntrtxn21]

Don't know how realistic this is, but what about Andrelton Simmons? He's due to make $15 million in 2020, but then becomes a FA, so as a 1 year rental wouldn't be as expensive as he'd be otherwise. Bit of an injury-plagued year this year, but when healthy he's as good as it gets defensively, and he seemed to have figured it out offensively in the last few years. High average/contact, rarely strikes out, has a little pop and can steal a few bags.

 

You might be looking at the right team but perhaps the wrong guy.

Angels like Simmons (a lot, they dealt to get him). They would be looking for a lot to deal him. But they have salary tied up in another player that is coming back from a shoulder issue and is also a FA after 2020.

 

Zack Cozart might be a buy low candidate where the Angels even eat some salary in the deal (he is set to get $12.67M)..

The Angels moved him over to 3B when they signed him but he has struggled huge in the AL. Perhaps a move back to the NL (& SS) would be a boost for his performance..

Maybe a change of scenery for both him and Shaw would work. Just a spitball thought...

 

I agree, Simmons and his $15M contract is far too much for the Brewers to spend on SS. Cozart is coming off two horrendous years and has a huge contract for 2020. If the Angels were willing to eat about $10M he would be a candidate for the bench and backup SS.

[TURBO]

Cozart is hurt A LOT! I want no part of a guy who is constantly injured, even if he ends up being cheap, what good does he do when he is constantly on the DL?

 

Pass on Cozart.

[PeaveyFury]

I think the discussion in the catcher thread has me sufficiently convinced that the only way this team can maintain a good lineup is to re-sign Grandall, which means that they only way the Brewers have enough $$ to upgrade pitching is by having Arcia return and banking on a breakout. He's not super cheap anymore, but the 1-2 million he makes is probably the difference in signing a RP or not relative to other, slightly less crappy SS options.

[long ball]

 

Taylor is an OF who can play infield if needed. Versatile, but it looks like his arby value number is going to be around $5M. With Stearns looking for money to re-sign Moose, Grandal, Lyles, Pomeranz, etc... I think Tayor is going to be too expensive for the Brewers for a bench player.

 

You have that backward on Taylor. Taylor came up as an infielder and played there exclusively until 2017. He's a pretty good outfielder too though, as we unfortunately witnessed against the Brewers in the 2018 NLCS.

 

If the Brewers pursued a trade for him I'd assume it would be as their primary shortstop, not a utility player.

[wntrtxn21]

 

Taylor is an OF who can play infield if needed. Versatile, but it looks like his arby value number is going to be around $5M. With Stearns looking for money to re-sign Moose, Grandal, Lyles, Pomeranz, etc... I think Tayor is going to be too expensive for the Brewers for a bench player.

 

You have that backward on Taylor. Taylor came up as an infielder and played there exclusively until 2017. He's a pretty good outfielder too though, as we unfortunately witnessed against the Brewers in the 2018 NLCS.

 

If the Brewers pursued a trade for him I'd assume it would be as their primary shortstop, not a utility player.

 

I was looking at how the Dodgers used him and his career ratings at positions. Plus rating for OF play and negative ratings for every infield position.

[clancyphile]

I'd agree. At this point, if the Orioles non-tender Villar, and he wants to come to Milwaukee on a cheap one-year deal, I'd take him if it was no more than $2 million.

 

But at this point, someone like Cesar Hernandez would be a better option. Comes cheap, especially if non-tendered, no baggage from a bad relationship with Counsell, and provides excellent OBP skills.

 

Hernandez would not come cheap. He's already making $7.75M and very likely will get an increase on that, even if the Phils trade him.

 

The MLB.com article I posted earlier in this thread noted Hernandez was a non-tender candidate.

 

If he is non-tendered, the situation changes.

[clancyphile]

Oh, I don't like Villar's game.... specifically his poor baserunning, complained about that for years. His defense and free swinging tendency bothered me too. He had waaaaay too long of a leash in Milwaukee. Glad he is having success, though. Yelich? Way different type of player in Miami.... happy to get him at the time... hmm.

 

For clarification, when the Orioles are down by 5 in the 7th, most pitchers simply want the hitter to earn their base, ala no walks. That plays into a free swinger like Villar, who can hit over the plate meatball HRs and RBIs when the limelight, urgency, and need is off.

 

I'd agree. At this point, if the Orioles non-tender Villar, and he wants to come to Milwaukee on a cheap one-year deal, I'd take him if it was no more than $2 million.

 

But at this point, someone like Cesar Hernandez would be a better option. Comes cheap, especially if non-tendered, no baggage from a bad relationship with Counsell, and provides excellent OBP skills.

 

Hernandez has roughly 120 career innings as a SS, and other than a 4-inning stint in 2017, and 20 innings in 2016, he hasn't appeared there since 2015. I'm guessing there is a reason. His defensive stats as a SS are not exactly impressive, which is why I'm guessing he hasn't appeared there.

 

With Hiura at 2B, I think they need a solid fielder at SS.

 

The Phillies had Jean Segura at short last year. Prior to that it was Scott Kingery in 2018, Freddy Galvis in 2016-2017 (and he was decent).

 

So, it may have been more a case of good options at short (save for 2018 - Kingery was almost as bad as Orlando Arcia was that year).

 

But a .741 OPS at short for the Crew would be 108 points higher than what Arcia provided in 2019.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

The Phillies had Jean Segura at short last year. Prior to that it was Scott Kingery in 2018, Freddy Galvis in 2016-2017 (and he was decent).

 

So, it may have been more a case of good options at short (save for 2018 - Kingery was almost as bad as Orlando Arcia was that year).

 

But a .741 OPS at short for the Crew would be 108 points higher than what Arcia provided in 2019.

 

It can be argued that if the Phillies had a viable option at SS right under their noses, they wouldn't have kept running that poo-poo platter of mediocrity out there.

[clancyphile]

 

The Phillies had Jean Segura at short last year. Prior to that it was Scott Kingery in 2018, Freddy Galvis in 2016-2017 (and he was decent).

 

So, it may have been more a case of good options at short (save for 2018 - Kingery was almost as bad as Orlando Arcia was that year).

 

But a .741 OPS at short for the Crew would be 108 points higher than what Arcia provided in 2019.

 

It can be argued that if the Phillies had a viable option at SS right under their noses, they wouldn't have kept running that poo-poo platter of mediocrity out there.

 

Kingery is the only one I'd describe as bad, and he improved in 2019. He only moved from SS because the Phillies acquired Segura.

 

Galvis was nominated for the Gold Glove in both of his years in Philly.

 

Segura's an All-Star SS.

 

When the last four years feature a two-time Gold Glove nominee, an All-Star, and a highly-touted rookie... yeah, I'd put my second SS at second base.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

The Phillies had Jean Segura at short last year. Prior to that it was Scott Kingery in 2018, Freddy Galvis in 2016-2017 (and he was decent).

 

So, it may have been more a case of good options at short (save for 2018 - Kingery was almost as bad as Orlando Arcia was that year).

 

But a .741 OPS at short for the Crew would be 108 points higher than what Arcia provided in 2019.

 

It can be argued that if the Phillies had a viable option at SS right under their noses, they wouldn't have kept running that poo-poo platter of mediocrity out there.

 

Kingery is the only one I'd describe as bad, and he improved in 2019. He only moved from SS because the Phillies acquired Segura.

 

Galvis was nominated for the Gold Glove in both of his years in Philly.

 

Segura's an All-Star SS.

 

When the last four years feature a two-time Gold Glove nominee, an All-Star, and a highly-touted rookie... yeah, I'd put my second SS at second base.

 

But if Hernandez could be a viable starting SS, wouldn't it have been prudent to hand him the job after Galvis left, rather than try to give it to an overmatched Kingery, or pay a big price for Segura in a trade?