Shortstop for 2020

[Brew crew 92]

Wanna guess what Arcia hit in his 100 ABs in the PCL last year. .341. He hit .341. With a .417 OBP.

 

He hit .267 there in 2016. As a 21 YEAR OLD!

 

This, once again, is the "grass is always greener" argument that BC92 has made a habit of this year.

 

My bad, I should have specified San Antonio. But ok, I just don’t get the Arcia love, especially by a reasonable, seasoned baseball fan as yourself.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Wanna guess what Arcia hit in his 100 ABs in the PCL last year. .341. He hit .341. With a .417 OBP.

 

He hit .267 there in 2016. As a 21 YEAR OLD!

 

This, once again, is the "grass is always greener" argument that BC92 has made a habit of this year.

 

My bad, I should have specified San Antonio. But ok, I just don’t get the Arcia love, especially by a reasonable, seasoned baseball fan as yourself.

 

I don't love Arcia. He's frustrating to watch. But he's also 25, and I want to make damn sure that we have exhausted his upside before tossing him away. I also believe that if the team is going to be serious about replacing him, and tossing money at the position to do it, it needs to be for a player who provides enough of an upgrade to justify robbing from Peter to pay Paul. Because if they sign another SS with the limited operating budget they have, that's less money they will have to upgrade other positions.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Wanna guess what Arcia hit in his 100 ABs in the PCL last year. .341. He hit .341. With a .417 OBP.

 

He hit .267 there in 2016. As a 21 YEAR OLD!

 

This, once again, is the "grass is always greener" argument that BC92 has made a habit of this year.

 

My bad, I should have specified San Antonio. But ok, I just don’t get the Arcia love, especially by a reasonable, seasoned baseball fan as yourself.

 

I don't love Arcia. He's frustrating to watch. But he's also 25, and I want to make damn sure that we have exhausted his upside before tossing him away. I also believe that if the team is going to be serious about replacing him, and tossing money at the position to do it, it needs to be for a player who provides enough of an upgrade to justify robbing from Peter to pay Paul. Because if they sign another SS with the limited operating budget they have, that's less money they will have to upgrade other positions.

[tmwiese55]

Ha, again some great ones here. Kind of boring that I miss most now.

 

For the having only played SS. Virtually any SS should be able to play 2B with no problem at all. 3B is a bit different due to the quick reaction, but in theory the arm strength should be there for the SS. And remember Arcia plays on the 2B side about 1/3 of the time as it is. If we got another guy to start at SS I'd be fine with Arcia in the Perez roster spot. Either he or the new guy should be able to move around as needed to cover some 2B due to injury or days, hopefully some 3B too. Somebody has to be here who can play 3B. Assuming Moose is back, I think it makes a ton of sense to have a RH backup 1B/3B combo guy.

 

ETA: I saw mention to 'clubhouse' type stuff in favor of Iglesias. Just adding that Arcia seems extremely well liked on the team in spite of how he gets ragged on here for his 'attitude'. I of course have no knowledge on Iglesias.

 

Thing is, outside of him there doesn't seem to be any even reasonable options. So a Nick Gordon or a blocked young guy of some kind might actually be the wiser move to have some upside left and also of course being cheap. [sarcasm]Then again, we had like 5 infielders in AAA this year hit the cover off the ball, so we should be all set actually. Just give them the chance.[/sarcasm]

[tmwiese55]

Ha, again some great ones here. Kind of boring that I miss most now.

 

For the having only played SS. Virtually any SS should be able to play 2B with no problem at all. 3B is a bit different due to the quick reaction, but in theory the arm strength should be there for the SS. And remember Arcia plays on the 2B side about 1/3 of the time as it is. If we got another guy to start at SS I'd be fine with Arcia in the Perez roster spot. Either he or the new guy should be able to move around as needed to cover some 2B due to injury or days, hopefully some 3B too. Somebody has to be here who can play 3B. Assuming Moose is back, I think it makes a ton of sense to have a RH backup 1B/3B combo guy.

 

ETA: I saw mention to 'clubhouse' type stuff in favor of Iglesias. Just adding that Arcia seems extremely well liked on the team in spite of how he gets ragged on here for his 'attitude'. I of course have no knowledge on Iglesias.

 

Thing is, outside of him there doesn't seem to be any even reasonable options. So a Nick Gordon or a blocked young guy of some kind might actually be the wiser move to have some upside left and also of course being cheap. [sarcasm]Then again, we had like 5 infielders in AAA this year hit the cover off the ball, so we should be all set actually. Just give them the chance.[/sarcasm]

[nate82]

If you are going to spend $5m+ on two SS I would rather just pay the cheaper one and not pay for the more expensive one. I would rather pay Arcia $2m and then sign Grandal, Moustakas, Pomeranz, and Lyles.

 

I just don't see the value in adding Iglesias. The improvement for the money being spent is minimal at best and the money can be spent better on other players like Pomeranz or Lyles. Capital wise if you are going to improve at SS it would be better to give someone like Nick Gordon a chance with Arcia than it is to sign Iglesias.

[nate82]

If you are going to spend $5m+ on two SS I would rather just pay the cheaper one and not pay for the more expensive one. I would rather pay Arcia $2m and then sign Grandal, Moustakas, Pomeranz, and Lyles.

 

I just don't see the value in adding Iglesias. The improvement for the money being spent is minimal at best and the money can be spent better on other players like Pomeranz or Lyles. Capital wise if you are going to improve at SS it would be better to give someone like Nick Gordon a chance with Arcia than it is to sign Iglesias.

[long ball]

Schoop is a free agent again this winter. They could always try that experiment again.

[long ball]

Schoop is a free agent again this winter. They could always try that experiment again.

[PeaveyFury]

I have no doubt that whatever choice they make with Arcia will be the wrong one, just because it seems that much of a toss-up to me. Keep him in the job, and he'll stay below replacement level. Let him go, and I have little doubt that he'll flourish and they gave up on him too early, just like Segura.

[PeaveyFury]

I have no doubt that whatever choice they make with Arcia will be the wrong one, just because it seems that much of a toss-up to me. Keep him in the job, and he'll stay below replacement level. Let him go, and I have little doubt that he'll flourish and they gave up on him too early, just like Segura.

[LouisEly]

Arcia's career OPS: .650

Iglesias's career OPS: .684

 

IMO, if he costs a lot more than Arcia, I pass.

 

If that's the best option, then I think it is a pretty good sign that there are not a lot of good shortstops out there.

 

Keep in mind, the Red Sox won the World Series last year with arguably the worst offensive production at two positions - 2B and C. In baseball, the sum is greater than the parts.

[LouisEly]

Arcia's career OPS: .650

Iglesias's career OPS: .684

 

IMO, if he costs a lot more than Arcia, I pass.

 

If that's the best option, then I think it is a pretty good sign that there are not a lot of good shortstops out there.

 

Keep in mind, the Red Sox won the World Series last year with arguably the worst offensive production at two positions - 2B and C. In baseball, the sum is greater than the parts.

[clancyphile]

Personally, at this point, if Arcia doesn't show improvement, I'd keep Moustakas, and if Shaw rebounds, use Moose at short. Maybe move Gatewood back to short this year to have one option, with playing time at third. Then there's Spangenberg...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Personally, at this point, if Arcia doesn't show improvement, I'd keep Moustakas, and if Shaw rebounds, use Moose at short. Maybe move Gatewood back to short this year to have one option, with playing time at third. Then there's Spangenberg...

 

"Thing that aren't going to happen for 100, Alex!"

 

The only portion of that statement that has any chance of happening is Spangenberg getting time at SS. If resigned, Moose is not playing SS. Yes, I realize that he saw a little time there in rookie league league a decade ago. It means nothing today. Highly doubt Gatewood sees any time at SS either. He was moved off of there for a reason.

[pacopete4]

Jake Gatewood? The guy that repeated AA this season and had a line of .187/.244/.331/.576? That Jake Gatewood!?!

[clancyphile]

Personally, at this point, if Arcia doesn't show improvement, I'd keep Moustakas, and if Shaw rebounds, use Moose at short. Maybe move Gatewood back to short this year to have one option, with playing time at third. Then there's Spangenberg...

 

"Thing that aren't going to happen for 100, Alex!"

 

The only portion of that statement that has any chance of happening is Spangenberg getting time at SS. If resigned, Moose is not playing SS. Yes, I realize that he saw a little time there in rookie league league a decade ago. It means nothing today. Highly doubt Gatewood sees any time at SS either. He was moved off of there for a reason.

 

Of course, the day I suggest a bat-first plan for shortstop, Arcia goes and hits a three-run double.

 

Could it be that making that suggestion removes the fear of the ball from Arcia's bats?

[reillymcshane]

A few things.

 

First, Iglesias has shown to be a better hitter and fielder than Arcia the last few years. Lots better? Not really, but his consistency would be a welcome upgrade from Orlando.

 

Second, despite all that, Iglesias is not that good. He offers little upside. Decent batting average, good defense. He’s a 1.5 WAR guy. Maybe 2.0 if he does well. That is, however, a big improvement over Arcia.

 

Third, Iglesias may very well need to be promised a starting gig. That’s no guarantee, but the Reds supposedly liked his play and would like him back. It only takes one team to make such an offer. Point is that getting him may not be that easy.

 

In the end, I think so much depends on the club’s vision of Arcia going forward. If they’re convinced he’s not going to get better, they shouldn’t stand pat. However, if they want to give him another go - not a huge deal. If Arcia matures - not out of the question for a younger player - it could be a big boon.

 

I don’t know if there’s a correct answer - but the club needs to address the situation going forward.

[TURBO]

Personally, at this point, if Arcia doesn't show improvement, I'd keep Moustakas, and if Shaw rebounds, use Moose at short.

 

You know, I used to think you made all these suggestions just to get a rise out of the board.

 

Now, I just think you are crazy.

[balsamlaker]

There just are not a great deal of "elite" shortstops out there (probably less than ten), so it doesn't make sense to spend much money on 11-30. I don't know what Arcia's arby number would be, but maybe they take a flyer on someone other than Saladino. A real "outside the box" suggestion who will not have his option picked up and could be "cheap" would be Starlin Castro.

[sveumrules]

There just are not a great deal of "elite" shortstops out there (probably less than ten), so it doesn't make sense to spend much money on 11-30. I don't know what Arcia's arby number would be, but maybe they take a flyer on someone other than Saladino. A real "outside the box" suggestion who will not have his option picked up and could be "cheap" would be Starlin Castro.

 

Since Arcia debuted in 2016 there are 32 shortstops with at least 1,500 PAs.

 

Arcia is dead last at 0.1 WAR. 11th place is Jean Segura with 14 WAR, so there is a considerable difference between #11 & #32.

 

Iglesias is 21st with 7.5 WAR, so still a notable upgrade (almost 2 WAR per year) over what Arica has provided.

 

I'm also guessing Jose will only cost a couple two tree million bucks, so not much money.

[clancyphile]

Personally, at this point, if Arcia doesn't show improvement, I'd keep Moustakas, and if Shaw rebounds, use Moose at short.

 

You know, I used to think you made all these suggestions just to get a rise out of the board.

 

Now, I just think you are crazy.

 

Well, Arcia has two hits, 3 RBI and a run after the suggestion today.

[wntrtxn21]

There just are not a great deal of "elite" shortstops out there (probably less than ten), so it doesn't make sense to spend much money on 11-30. I don't know what Arcia's arby number would be, but maybe they take a flyer on someone other than Saladino. A real "outside the box" suggestion who will not have his option picked up and could be "cheap" would be Starlin Castro.

 

Castro last played SS in 2015 and was horrible at short. He is also scheduled to make over $11M (if re-signed). He had an OBP of .296 this year. No option at all.

[BrewForLife]

Minnesota has Polanco (OPS .841) starting in the bigs and Royce Lewis as a top prospect.

I like Nick Gordon as a starting SS to come over in a trade. Arcia may never get it and it is time to spend capital to fix the worst SS WAR in the league.

[pacopete4]

If you don't spend on Grandal and/or Moose, I could see them trying to go this route. But not if they have to spend much of their resources on other positions. There are a lot of holes to fill.