Shortstop for 2020

[pacopete4]

I didn't argue it. I am saying I believe he is more of the 1.4 or better guy than not. I did not argue that he has had a rough season or seasons for that matter. But he is now entering his prime and I don't want to shuffle that off for a guy that isn't that great who would be replacing him.

 

Exactly! Arcia obviously has a lower floor than Iglesias, but he offers a higher ceiling as well. It's risky to dump a guy who is 25 and has yet to reach his theoretical prime for a guy who may be already past his.

 

2 pea’s in a pod, choosing to die on a really odd hill. Talk about me doubling down!

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

[pacopete4]

I didn't argue it. I am saying I believe he is more of the 1.4 or better guy than not. I did not argue that he has had a rough season or seasons for that matter. But he is now entering his prime and I don't want to shuffle that off for a guy that isn't that great who would be replacing him.

 

Exactly! Arcia obviously has a lower floor than Iglesias, but he offers a higher ceiling as well. It's risky to dump a guy who is 25 and has yet to reach his theoretical prime for a guy who may be already past his.

 

2 pea’s in a pod, choosing to die on a really odd hill. Talk about me doubling down!

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

[pacopete4]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That's a good point. I guess I was just assuming that when people say they want Arcia replaced, they want him completely off the team. I never even really considered that he could be kept in a theoretically platoon situation or part-time role. I'm just worried about spending millions on another bad player.

 

If you are going to keep Arcia in a spot like that, he's going to play SS. He has never played another position in the majors and rarely played anything else in the minors. He played a bit of 2B. So he's not a Perez-type player. If you end up signing someone, Arcia is probably gone. Unless you trade for a guy like Villar who can play other positions when Arcia is playing SS because Iglesias doesn't play other positions other than SS either.

[pacopete4]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That's a good point. I guess I was just assuming that when people say they want Arcia replaced, they want him completely off the team. I never even really considered that he could be kept in a theoretically platoon situation or part-time role. I'm just worried about spending millions on another bad player.

 

If you are going to keep Arcia in a spot like that, he's going to play SS. He has never played another position in the majors and rarely played anything else in the minors. He played a bit of 2B. So he's not a Perez-type player. If you end up signing someone, Arcia is probably gone. Unless you trade for a guy like Villar who can play other positions when Arcia is playing SS because Iglesias doesn't play other positions other than SS either.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

But yeah, either way, you can likely have him & Iglesias for less than the theoretical cost of 1 WAR on the open market.

 

If he can be had that affordably, I would understand making the move. I personally think that he ends up signing for substantially more than that, but I've been wrong plenty before. I don't think he's the type or caliber of player it is smart to get into a bidding war over, though.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

But yeah, either way, you can likely have him & Iglesias for less than the theoretical cost of 1 WAR on the open market.

 

If he can be had that affordably, I would understand making the move. I personally think that he ends up signing for substantially more than that, but I've been wrong plenty before. I don't think he's the type or caliber of player it is smart to get into a bidding war over, though.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

 

What we really need is for Arcia to hit .330 down to San Antonio for a couple months next year. Then he'd be a future superstar! A true, natural hitter!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

 

What we really need is for Arcia to hit .330 down to San Antonio for a couple months next year. Then he'd be a future superstar! A true, natural hitter!

[RollieTime]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Arcia moves to the backup role and gets one more year to show some type of improvement without needing to be “the guy”. If he shows nothing in 2020, he is gone. If he shows some improvement, you now have two good options at short and increased depth on your bench.

[RollieTime]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Arcia moves to the backup role and gets one more year to show some type of improvement without needing to be “the guy”. If he shows nothing in 2020, he is gone. If he shows some improvement, you now have two good options at short and increased depth on your bench.

[pacopete4]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Arcia moves to the backup role and gets one more year to show some type of improvement without needing to be “the guy”. If he shows nothing in 2020, he is gone. If he shows some improvement, you now have two good options at short and increased depth on your bench.

 

And you have two guys on your roster that have only played SS in their careers.

[pacopete4]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Arcia moves to the backup role and gets one more year to show some type of improvement without needing to be “the guy”. If he shows nothing in 2020, he is gone. If he shows some improvement, you now have two good options at short and increased depth on your bench.

 

And you have two guys on your roster that have only played SS in their careers.

[RollieTime]

Yeah, guys are making it sound like we are tossing $20 million at this guy. Arcia has been the worst hitter in the game for the last couple years. We are talking about giving a guy like $3 million to greatly increase the floor of the production at SS to something like a .250-.260 hitter instead of having a black hole. I would consider an upgrade from a black hole to a competent hitter as a very wise investment. Especially when it’s only a few million.

 

Yes, 100% knee-jerk. Falling in love with, and throwing money at a marginal upgrade is what gets GMs fired.

 

I always love reading your posts here, but are you actually saying that signing Iglesias to something like a 2/$6-8 million contract is a fireable offense for a GM? Especially at a position that we have been trotting out the worst hitter in MLB at? I actually think signing a guy like him is a no-brainer.

 

If you think Iglesias is the solid contact hitter who doesn't strike out much and is putting up a .720 OPS this year, fine, yeah, that's an upgrade. But we're talking about a guy with a career OPS of .685. He brings next to no power, doesn't do a lot on the basepaths, and is a solid but unspectacular defender. His range isn't great, and he will be entering his age 30 season, an age when range factors typically start to decrease for middle infielders. And because he is having a decent season offensively, it is likely he's looking at a solid multi-year deal. All I'm trying to say is that if you throw money at Iglesias expecting him to be a massive upgrade from Arcia, you're more than likely going to be disappointed with a player who is probably going to be fine, but certainly isn't going to get any better. And say you have to sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal at $4-$5 million per year ... that is probably what a guy like Pomeranz is looking at. I just want to get the best bang for what are going to be limited bucks, and I just don't see the Iglesias/Arcia upgrade as enough of a bang.

 

That’s a fair point. To be fair though, Arcia is a career .650 OPS hitter, who barely hits above the Mendoza line, has limited power (maybe a slight edge to Arcia), who also doesn’t do much on the basepaths, strikes out more, and is still only a good, not great defender. I think it would be fair to say that if we had a .284 hitter instead of a .218 hitter for 150 games, we would have 2 more wins this year. That would place us only a half game back of the Cardinals. And I know you can’t look at it and automatically give yourself more wins, but it’s the same as having a .260 hitter or a .320 hitter in your lineup all season and saying it wouldn’t make much of a difference. That’s a pretty substantial upgrade for only a few million and would definitely lead to an extra couple wins over a 162 game season.

[RollieTime]

Yeah, guys are making it sound like we are tossing $20 million at this guy. Arcia has been the worst hitter in the game for the last couple years. We are talking about giving a guy like $3 million to greatly increase the floor of the production at SS to something like a .250-.260 hitter instead of having a black hole. I would consider an upgrade from a black hole to a competent hitter as a very wise investment. Especially when it’s only a few million.

 

Yes, 100% knee-jerk. Falling in love with, and throwing money at a marginal upgrade is what gets GMs fired.

 

I always love reading your posts here, but are you actually saying that signing Iglesias to something like a 2/$6-8 million contract is a fireable offense for a GM? Especially at a position that we have been trotting out the worst hitter in MLB at? I actually think signing a guy like him is a no-brainer.

 

If you think Iglesias is the solid contact hitter who doesn't strike out much and is putting up a .720 OPS this year, fine, yeah, that's an upgrade. But we're talking about a guy with a career OPS of .685. He brings next to no power, doesn't do a lot on the basepaths, and is a solid but unspectacular defender. His range isn't great, and he will be entering his age 30 season, an age when range factors typically start to decrease for middle infielders. And because he is having a decent season offensively, it is likely he's looking at a solid multi-year deal. All I'm trying to say is that if you throw money at Iglesias expecting him to be a massive upgrade from Arcia, you're more than likely going to be disappointed with a player who is probably going to be fine, but certainly isn't going to get any better. And say you have to sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal at $4-$5 million per year ... that is probably what a guy like Pomeranz is looking at. I just want to get the best bang for what are going to be limited bucks, and I just don't see the Iglesias/Arcia upgrade as enough of a bang.

 

That’s a fair point. To be fair though, Arcia is a career .650 OPS hitter, who barely hits above the Mendoza line, has limited power (maybe a slight edge to Arcia), who also doesn’t do much on the basepaths, strikes out more, and is still only a good, not great defender. I think it would be fair to say that if we had a .284 hitter instead of a .218 hitter for 150 games, we would have 2 more wins this year. That would place us only a half game back of the Cardinals. And I know you can’t look at it and automatically give yourself more wins, but it’s the same as having a .260 hitter or a .320 hitter in your lineup all season and saying it wouldn’t make much of a difference. That’s a pretty substantial upgrade for only a few million and would definitely lead to an extra couple wins over a 162 game season.

[Brew crew 92]

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

 

What we really need is for Arcia to hit .330 down to San Antonio for a couple months next year. Then he'd be a future superstar! A true, natural hitter!

 

To believe one of the WORST hitters in baseball will hit or even defend as well as Iglesias is the “crazy” thought, then you have the bad baseball IQ, you know the “Villar” effect, that can’t be quantified analytically that brings him down even further.

 

Arcia is such a terrible hitter(outside of the playoffs)he’d be lucky to hit .285 in the PCL. Which, as you know is 100 points lower than Grisham or Freitas hit there. Oh, and the both of them(Grisham,Freitas)are actually pinch hitting at about the same rate 1-12. At some point moving forward, this site, you know, the 96% of which said the brewers weren’t going on a run in September, even though Stearns/Counsell the last 2 September’s dominated their competition, will realize how foolish they were again with regards to Freitas. It won’t be this year, you can thank his injury and Grandal for that.

[Brew crew 92]

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

 

What we really need is for Arcia to hit .330 down to San Antonio for a couple months next year. Then he'd be a future superstar! A true, natural hitter!

 

To believe one of the WORST hitters in baseball will hit or even defend as well as Iglesias is the “crazy” thought, then you have the bad baseball IQ, you know the “Villar” effect, that can’t be quantified analytically that brings him down even further.

 

Arcia is such a terrible hitter(outside of the playoffs)he’d be lucky to hit .285 in the PCL. Which, as you know is 100 points lower than Grisham or Freitas hit there. Oh, and the both of them(Grisham,Freitas)are actually pinch hitting at about the same rate 1-12. At some point moving forward, this site, you know, the 96% of which said the brewers weren’t going on a run in September, even though Stearns/Counsell the last 2 September’s dominated their competition, will realize how foolish they were again with regards to Freitas. It won’t be this year, you can thank his injury and Grandal for that.

[RollieTime]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Arcia moves to the backup role and gets one more year to show some type of improvement without needing to be “the guy”. If he shows nothing in 2020, he is gone. If he shows some improvement, you now have two good options at short and increased depth on your bench.

 

And you have two guys on your roster that have only played SS in their careers.

 

Arcia can play 2nd in a pinch. There’s just been no need to since we had Villar in the past, Shaw hitting well there last year, and Moose playing there this season with Hiura taking it over full time for the foreseeable future. Arcia plays way out in right in the shift a lot anyway. Arcia can be the backup at SS and 2nd, filling in for injuries and on off days. I think the Brewers have shown that they are open minded about putting guys in a position they haven’t played before. Giving Arcia a few reps at 2nd makes a lot more sense than Shaw or Moose and they’ve done that. He will have all off-season to put in work over there as well.

[RollieTime]

That's just the thing, though. You don't have to dump Arcia.

 

Arcia at 1.0-1.5 million in Arby plus Iglesias at 3.0-3.5 million & you've just raised the floor for your SS production considerably while retaining the potential ceiling Orlando offers for a total investment around 4.0-5.0 million dollars.

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Arcia moves to the backup role and gets one more year to show some type of improvement without needing to be “the guy”. If he shows nothing in 2020, he is gone. If he shows some improvement, you now have two good options at short and increased depth on your bench.

 

And you have two guys on your roster that have only played SS in their careers.

 

Arcia can play 2nd in a pinch. There’s just been no need to since we had Villar in the past, Shaw hitting well there last year, and Moose playing there this season with Hiura taking it over full time for the foreseeable future. Arcia plays way out in right in the shift a lot anyway. Arcia can be the backup at SS and 2nd, filling in for injuries and on off days. I think the Brewers have shown that they are open minded about putting guys in a position they haven’t played before. Giving Arcia a few reps at 2nd makes a lot more sense than Shaw or Moose and they’ve done that. He will have all off-season to put in work over there as well.

[pacopete4]

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

 

What we really need is for Arcia to hit .330 down to San Antonio for a couple months next year. Then he'd be a future superstar! A true, natural hitter!

 

To believe one of the WORST hitters in baseball will hit or even defend as well as Iglesias is the “crazy” thought, then you have the bad baseball IQ, you know the “Villar” effect, that can’t be qualified analytically that brings him down even further.

 

Arcia is such a terrible hitter(outside of the playoffs)he’d be lucky to hit .285 in the PCL. Which, as you know is 100 points lower than Grisham or Freitas hit there. Oh, and the both of them(Grisham,Freitas)are actually pinch hitting at about the same rate 1-12. At some point moving forward, this site, you know, the 96% of which said the brewers weren’t going on a run in September, even though Stearns/Counsell the last 2 September’s dominated their competition, will realize how foolish they were again with regards to Freitas. It won’t be this year, you can thank his injury and Grandal for that.

 

You fired Stearns already. You have no legs to stand on with anyone around here. Give it a rest.

[pacopete4]

 

Odd hill? We believe Arcia entering his prime will be what Iglesias is. That isn't a crazy thought, and you should know a crazy thought, you have plenty of them.

 

What we really need is for Arcia to hit .330 down to San Antonio for a couple months next year. Then he'd be a future superstar! A true, natural hitter!

 

To believe one of the WORST hitters in baseball will hit or even defend as well as Iglesias is the “crazy” thought, then you have the bad baseball IQ, you know the “Villar” effect, that can’t be qualified analytically that brings him down even further.

 

Arcia is such a terrible hitter(outside of the playoffs)he’d be lucky to hit .285 in the PCL. Which, as you know is 100 points lower than Grisham or Freitas hit there. Oh, and the both of them(Grisham,Freitas)are actually pinch hitting at about the same rate 1-12. At some point moving forward, this site, you know, the 96% of which said the brewers weren’t going on a run in September, even though Stearns/Counsell the last 2 September’s dominated their competition, will realize how foolish they were again with regards to Freitas. It won’t be this year, you can thank his injury and Grandal for that.

 

You fired Stearns already. You have no legs to stand on with anyone around here. Give it a rest.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Wanna guess what Arcia hit in his 100 ABs in the PCL last year. .341. He hit .341. With a .417 OBP.

 

He hit .267 there in 2016. As a 21 YEAR OLD!

 

This, once again, is the "grass is always greener" argument that BC92 has made a habit of this year.

 

Like I mentioned above, I have no problem with the team bringing in competition for Arcia. What I do have an issue with, though, is throwing money at a player who isn't going to be a substantial upgrade. If Iglesias can be had on a cheap one or two-year deal, by all means, lets get him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Wanna guess what Arcia hit in his 100 ABs in the PCL last year. .341. He hit .341. With a .417 OBP.

 

He hit .267 there in 2016. As a 21 YEAR OLD!

 

This, once again, is the "grass is always greener" argument that BC92 has made a habit of this year.

 

Like I mentioned above, I have no problem with the team bringing in competition for Arcia. What I do have an issue with, though, is throwing money at a player who isn't going to be a substantial upgrade. If Iglesias can be had on a cheap one or two-year deal, by all means, lets get him.

[MrTPlush]

Orlando Arcia has only ever played SS because that is the premium defensive position and there has been no one on a roster to even compare to him. I don't know why that is reflective of his ability at a different position. As an everyday player it wouldn't make sense to play him anywhere else.

 

Of course if he became a utility guy then he would need to play other positions depending on who is out at the time because that is what bench bats need to do. Do you think Ben Zobrist played every position in the minors? No, he played SS. Even Hernan Perez...he wasn't playing 3B/OF/1B in the minors. That is what those players started doing to maximize their value and keep a job.

[MrTPlush]

Orlando Arcia has only ever played SS because that is the premium defensive position and there has been no one on a roster to even compare to him. I don't know why that is reflective of his ability at a different position. As an everyday player it wouldn't make sense to play him anywhere else.

 

Of course if he became a utility guy then he would need to play other positions depending on who is out at the time because that is what bench bats need to do. Do you think Ben Zobrist played every position in the minors? No, he played SS. Even Hernan Perez...he wasn't playing 3B/OF/1B in the minors. That is what those players started doing to maximize their value and keep a job.

[Brew crew 92]

Wanna guess what Arcia hit in his 100 ABs in the PCL last year. .341. He hit .341. With a .417 OBP.

 

He hit .267 there in 2016. As a 21 YEAR OLD!

 

This, once again, is the "grass is always greener" argument that BC92 has made a habit of this year.

 

My bad, I should have specified San Antonio. But ok, I just don’t get the Arcia love, especially by a reasonable, seasoned baseball fan as yourself.