Shortstop for 2020

[reillymcshane]

A lot just depends on the club's perception of Arcia going forward. He just turned 25 a couple of weeks ago, and it's not uncommon for smaller middle infielder types to mature (physically and mentally) around this time. Perhaps the teams feels there is growth as a player - as a hitter and as a fielder. As a fielder, he offers a ton of potential. But the club has to feel he can tap into it.

 

If not, the options for 2020 are somewhat limited.

 

The biggest name will be Didi Gregorius. Power, solid BA, average defense. But he's had some injury issues the last few years and missed some time (this includes TJ surgery last season). Also, at age 30, he's not likely to get any better, so what you see is what you get (at best). His defense is average, he doesn't walk much (about 6.0% in his career), hits between .265-.285, and is good for 20-25 HR. That's good. Not great, but quite good. He's probably the best of the bunch, and should get a pretty good contract.

 

Next are Jose Iglesias and Freddy Galvis - both of whom are 30. Both are guys have limited upside. Iglesias hits for a better average, and has a better glove. Galvis has more power. Both are having career years, so be careful about looking at just 2019. Iglesias is likely not a .290 hitter who hits double digit HRs. Or Galvis is likely not a .270 hitter who hits 25 HR. Those numbers are outliers. Gavis will probably hit .250 and hit 15-20 HR. Iglesias will hit .260-.270 with 5 HR. Those numbers aren't bad - but they don't translate into huge upgrades. And let's not forget, both guys are probably at their peak. Numbers for guys like that usually don't get better as they age. Still, each is a decent player - likely to get you 2.0 WAR.

 

Your other options are not starting level quality players (at least at SS). You've got older guys (such as Jordy Mercer) who just aren't that good anymore, plus some guys who might still be productive, but should not play SS regularly (Sogard, Brock Holt, for example).

 

The team just might be fed up with Arcia's erratic play, but they may also just roll with him again, and hope that he gets things together. If he hits league average, and plays good defense, he's a valuable player.

 

Personally, if the club adds someone, I'd hope it is Iglesias. I love his defense - which will help the entire team. He's not a going to do a lot with his bat, but he's consistent.

 

A trade is always a possibility, but this club doesn't really have a ton to deal. But you never know.

[nate82]

Man, with all due respect because I know you're just posting some options...players that are slugging sub-.360 in AA or horrible AVG/OPS should not be major league options.

 

Gordon seems to be the only player that I could see as an option and I'd imagine that the Twins protect him.

 

That's like going after Luis Sardinas to start for our contending team.

 

These were all rule 5 pick options. So you are not going to get perfection and there are going to be warts.

[wntrtxn21]

I would guess the options for 2020 are going to be Arcia or a bunch of other guys that are basically the same as Arcia. Maybe the DBacks would be interested in unloading Eduardo Escobar but they're probably looking for an actual prospect or two for him.

 

Eduardo Escobar should never, ever see the SS position. Moose would likely be better there defensively at this point.

 

He's played so much SS in his career he can't be that bad. The .150 increase in OPS is probably worth it.

 

Escobar is a -15 career SS and rated a -34 SS this year. He's about as bad as you can get at SS and would kill the D.

[bill hAll Star]

Man, with all due respect because I know you're just posting some options...players that are slugging sub-.360 in AA or horrible AVG/OPS should not be major league options.

 

Gordon seems to be the only player that I could see as an option and I'd imagine that the Twins protect him.

 

That's like going after Luis Sardinas to start for our contending team.

 

These were all rule 5 pick options. So you are not going to get perfection and there are going to be warts.

 

Yes, understood, that's why I gave the disclaimer.

 

I understand you're just presenting options (rule 5) but I can't imagine any scenario where I'd be interested in really any of them. Send Arcia down to AA or AAA and as bad as he is in the majors, he'd blow those numbers away. Arcia was a better hitter than those guys at AA at age 21 and those guys have all probably been stuck in the minors for years and still cannot hit.

[bill hAll Star]

Next are Jose Iglesias and Freddy Galvis - both of whom are 30. Both are guys have limited upside. Iglesias hits for a better average, and has a better glove. Galvis has more power. Both are having career years, so be careful about looking at just 2019. Iglesias is likely not a .290 hitter who hits double digit HRs. Or Galvis is likely not a .270 hitter who hits 25 HR. Those numbers are outliers. Gavis will probably hit .250 and hit 15-20 HR. Iglesias will hit .260-.270 with 5 HR. Those numbers aren't bad - but they don't translate into huge upgrades. And let's not forget, both guys are probably at their peak. Numbers for guys like that usually don't get better as they age. Still, each is a decent player - likely to get you 2.0 WAR.

 

Home runs are up 22% this year and closer to 40% if you compare back about 5 years before they juiced the balls the first time.

 

Batting average is up much less but there are some guys that get a boost in average because of how they hit it and I think Galvis falls in that category.

 

Anyways, this is not that big of a deal given that the point does remain in each player's standing among league shortsops, but I wouldn't be surprised if Galvis puts these numbers up again next year if they keep the balls the same.

[3and2Fastball]

We could trade Yelich for Gavin Lux

[HarveysWBs]

We could trade Yelich for Gavin Lux

 

A Lux and Buehler offer would make me at least think about it...

[reillymcshane]

The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

 

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

 

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

 

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.

[Brew crew 92]

The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

 

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

 

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

 

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.

 

I agree with you that we need to upgrade at SS. And I also agree that Iglesias should be our target. But I think it will cost closer to 8-10 mil. I would absolutely pay that, and tell him your our SS. Period. Reds are my home market team, and I watch a lot of their games. Iglesias is a fantastic defensive SS, a really good hitter, a great clutch hitter(best 2 strike hitter statistically in all of baseball), runs hard to 1B on every play, and is a leader. I’d call him one of the most underrated players in all of baseball. Overpay if necessary to steal him away from the reds, that signing alone would not just strengthen us, but just as important would hurt what could be our toughest competition for the central next year.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

 

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

 

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

 

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.

 

I agree with you that we need to upgrade at SS. And I also agree that Iglesias should be our target. But I think it will cost closer to 8-10 mil. I would absolutely pay that, and tell him your our SS. Period. Reds are my home market team, and I watch a lot of their games. Iglesias is a fantastic defensive SS, a really good hitter, a great clutch hitter(best 2 strike hitter statistically in all of baseball), runs hard to 1B on every play, and is a leader. I’d call him one of the most underrated players in all of baseball. Overpay if necessary to steal him away from the reds, that signing alone would not just strengthen us, but just as important would hurt what could be our toughest competition for the central next year.

 

Can’t overpay at every position. Also can’t have 8+ mil guys at 7 of the 8 starting positional players. Leaves nothing for pitching. Just won’t work.

[sveumrules]

Last year Iglesias hit 269/310/389 (88 OPS+). He got 1 year, 2.5 million.

 

This year Iglesias has hit 287/314/407 (85 OPS+).

 

Given most of the contending teams being pretty set at SS, I'd guess 8-10 million would probably buy you a couple two tree years of Jose easy.

[MrTPlush]

Jose Iglesias is no better this year than last. After 2018 he signed a $2.5mil contract. Reilly’s $5mil figure is already doubling his previous salary...$8-$10mil seems waaaay more than what it will cost. What did he do to deserve a quadruple in salary?

 

Didi is solid, but the numbers I have seen thrown around for him...hard pass.

 

Freddy Galvis. I mean, I guess he could be an option? Not really dying to add him though.

 

I don’t know what the trade market features. That could be a route to take. Quick glance shows nothing, but maybe I missed someone. In my opinion Iglesias is a solid option to try and bring in...I’d even keep Arcia around for utility purposes. If he doesn’t work rolling with Arcia one more year is sadly a likely scenario. As much as Arcia sucks a marginal upgrade seems like more work than it is worth.

[Brew crew 92]

The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

 

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

 

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

 

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.

 

I agree with you that we need to upgrade at SS. And I also agree that Iglesias should be our target. But I think it will cost closer to 8-10 mil. I would absolutely pay that, and tell him your our SS. Period. Reds are my home market team, and I watch a lot of their games. Iglesias is a fantastic defensive SS, a really good hitter, a great clutch hitter(best 2 strike hitter statistically in all of baseball), runs hard to 1B on every play, and is a leader. I’d call him one of the most underrated players in all of baseball. Overpay if necessary to steal him away from the reds, that signing alone would not just strengthen us, but just as important would hurt what could be our toughest competition for the central next year.

 

Can’t overpay at every position. Also can’t have 8+ mil guys at 7 of the 8 starting positional players. Leaves nothing for pitching. Just won’t work.

 

Stearns likes our pitching, I like our pitching. Imo, we don’t need as much pitching help as positional help. Iglesias’s war not helped by his intangibles, all out hustle, clutch hitting etc., so his value is higher than his stats.

‘

[Brew crew 92]

Jose Iglesias is no better this year than last. After 2018 he signed a $2.5mil contract. Reilly’s $5mil figure is already doubling his previous salary...$8-$10mil seems waaaay more than what it will cost. What did he do to deserve a quadruple in salary?

 

Didi is solid, but the numbers I have seen thrown around for him...hard pass.

 

Freddy Galvis. I mean, I guess he could be an option? Not really dying to add him though.

 

I don’t know what the trade market features. That could be a route to take. Quick glance shows nothing, but maybe I missed someone. In my opinion Iglesias is a solid option to try and bring in...I’d even keep Arcia around for utility purposes. If he doesn’t work rolling with Arcia one more year is sadly a likely scenario. As much as Arcia sucks a marginal upgrade seems like more work than it is worth.

 

.287 > Stronger even than it looks, because he was the reds best clutch hitter. Hey, if I’m off, and he can be had for 5-8, it’s the best signing of this coming year, just like his 2.5 was the best signing last year.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

 

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

 

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

 

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.

 

I agree with you that we need to upgrade at SS. And I also agree that Iglesias should be our target. But I think it will cost closer to 8-10 mil. I would absolutely pay that, and tell him your our SS. Period. Reds are my home market team, and I watch a lot of their games. Iglesias is a fantastic defensive SS, a really good hitter, a great clutch hitter(best 2 strike hitter statistically in all of baseball), runs hard to 1B on every play, and is a leader. I’d call him one of the most underrated players in all of baseball. Overpay if necessary to steal him away from the reds, that signing alone would not just strengthen us, but just as important would hurt what could be our toughest competition for the central next year.

 

Can’t overpay at every position. Also can’t have 8+ mil guys at 7 of the 8 starting positional players. Leaves nothing for pitching. Just won’t work.

[wallus]

What would you guys think of Aledmys Diaz from the Astros for a year or two?

[long ball]

What would you guys think of Aledmys Diaz from the Astros for a year or two?

I don't know much about him. The offensive numbers are good. He's more of a utility guy that an every day short stop based on his defensive metrics at SS though.

 

 

Overall I think the Brewers need to add a SS with a higher floor than Arcia. His hitting is just unacceptable when you can add a guy like Mercer, Galvis or Iglesias on a small deal. That doesn't mean you need to non-tender Arcia. He still has an option left and I can't imagine his arbitration salary is much more than like $1.5mm.

[wallus]

What would you guys think of Aledmys Diaz from the Astros for a year or two?

I don't know much about him. The offensive numbers are good. He's more of a utility guy that an every day short stop based on his defensive metrics at SS though.

 

 

 

Yeah, I think the upgrade is going to have to come from a trade. So I looked for teams with a strong starting shortstop and backups that can hit at least.

[wntrtxn21]

What would you guys think of Aledmys Diaz from the Astros for a year or two?

I don't know much about him. The offensive numbers are good. He's more of a utility guy that an every day short stop based on his defensive metrics at SS though.

 

 

Overall I think the Brewers need to add a SS with a higher floor than Arcia. His hitting is just unacceptable when you can add a guy like Mercer, Galvis or Iglesias on a small deal. That doesn't mean you need to non-tender Arcia. He still has an option left and I can't imagine his arbitration salary is much more than like $1.5mm.

 

Not a huge fan of Mercer because of his age. He'll be 34 next year and making aroung $6M. Galvis OBP .296 not much of an improvement and a negative defensive SS. Iglesais is the only one of the three that seems viable with defense and with the stick.

[Madhawk23]

I would absolutely be on board with a 2 yr 7M type deal for Iglesias - if that's what it would take to get a deal done with him. That would at least buy us a couple of years to figure out what we have with Turang. Then, could we go out and find someone that might be willing to give us something in return for Arcia? Maybe someone that thinks they can get his offensive game turned around to go along with the glove? He's obviously still young enough to take a chance on. I guess I'm thinking of a trade more in line with what we got for Broxton last winter?

[nate82]

I just don't see the appeal of Iglesias.

 

Going from Arcia to Iglesias to me is not that big of a jump and you will be paying him more than what Arcia will be making in arbitration. I just don't see an investment in Iglesias being a smart move more of a knee jerk reaction than anything really.

 

If the Brewers want to make a serious upgrade at SS Nick Gordon maybe the best option out there for the Brewers to go and pick up he has fallen behind Lewis in Minnesota as their future SS and he didn't really have an all that great year at AAA and he had a poor year last year in AA before being promoted to AAA.

 

Gordon may not bring back a player as good as the Twins may want. I think a trade of Gordon for Brown and Nottingham should be enough. I am not sure that gets it done but I would rather have Gordon than Iglesias. I'll take 2011 Yuni B over Iglesias.

[sveumrules]

Arcia 2016-19 | 0.1 fWAR/2.0 bWAR | 67 wRC+/20.6 K%

Iglesias 2016-19 | 7.7 fWAR/6.6 bWAR | 79 wRC+/11.7 K%

 

Jose has produced much more consistently & should easily provide 1-2 wins over Orlando next year, plus he likely won't cost much more than the 2.5 million he is making this season.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I just don't see the appeal of Iglesias.

 

Going from Arcia to Iglesias to me is not that big of a jump and you will be paying him more than what Arcia will be making in arbitration. I just don't see an investment in Iglesias being a smart move more of a knee jerk reaction than anything really.

 

If the Brewers want to make a serious upgrade at SS Nick Gordon maybe the best option out there for the Brewers to go and pick up he has fallen behind Lewis in Minnesota as their future SS and he didn't really have an all that great year at AAA and he had a poor year last year in AA before being promoted to AAA.

 

Gordon may not bring back a player as good as the Twins may want. I think a trade of Gordon for Brown and Nottingham should be enough. I am not sure that gets it done but I would rather have Gordon than Iglesias. I'll take 2011 Yuni B over Iglesias.

 

I agree that those advocating throwing money at players like Iglesias and Galvis are making total knee-jerk reactions. They simply want them because they are not Orlando Arcia. If the Brewers are going to spend that kind of coin, in my opinion they need to make sure the player they choose is a sizable improvement offensively, while not taking a sizable step back defensively. Neither Galvis nor Iglesias are that. If you can't make that type of improvement, ride with Arcia another year, in the hope that possibly Turang may be ready sometime in 2021.

[nate82]

Arcia 2016-19 | 0.1 fWAR/2.0 bWAR | 67 wRC+/20.6 K%

Iglesias 2016-19 | 7.7 fWAR/6.6 bWAR | 79 wRC+/11.7 K%

 

Jose has produced much more consistently & should easily provide 1-2 wins over Orlando next year, plus he likely won't cost much more than the 2.5 million he is making this season.

 

I understand this but you are basically paying 2.5m for 2017 Arcia. Would you pay 2.5m+ a season for 2017 Arcia? I know I wouldn't pay that much for that type of production and I would rather try and find someone who is blocked like Nick Gordon.

[brewmann04]

I don't think we going to get a big upgrade @SS money can be spent elsewhere.