Shortstop for 2020

[PeaveyFury]

 

It is going to be interesting to see what happens this offseason. I tend to agree that the external choices, at least in the free agent market, look pretty bleak, so I'm at the point where I'm ready to bank on Arcia realizing his upside rather than go out and grab a guy that doesn't offer any. Of course, they could very well be looking at the trade market for a possible upgrade. I do agree that we need more production out of that spot. I just am not ready to write off the idea that Orlando Arcia can offer that increased production.

 

I think this is very fair. The Brewers have limited financial resources, and after today, have holes to fill at C, 3B, SS, 1B, and need about 3 arms between the bullpen and rotation. They have internal candidates that COULD fill 3B and SS, if you bank on Shaw and Arcia. Of the two, Arcia is the smarter choice as he's cheaper and still has age-based potential to figure it out. If you're going to need to use resources elsewhere, as they likely will need to, hoping for one more year with Arcia is probably the smartest financial play.

[JimH5]

Arcia is 324 Plate Appearances away from securing his place on the Brewers Wall of Honor.

[TURBO]

What will Arcia's attitude be like if we went the route mentioned above? I can see him not liking that situation one single bit and becoming a problem in the clubhouse.

 

Give me a break. You based this on what?

 

Over-react much?

 

I asked a simple question. What will Arcia's attitude be if he is demoted to a late inning replacement?

 

I'm not basing it on anything, I am stating what could happen, and it wouldn't surprise me if the situation happened, that he would be extremly unhappy, which could cause issues in the clubhouse.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

What will Arcia's attitude be like if we went the route mentioned above? I can see him not liking that situation one single bit and becoming a problem in the clubhouse.

 

Give me a break. You based this on what?

 

Over-react much?

 

I asked a simple question. What will Arcia's attitude be if he is demoted to a late inning replacement?

 

I'm not basing it on anything, I am stating what could happen, and it wouldn't surprise me if the situation happened, that he would be extremly unhappy, which could cause issues in the clubhouse.

 

I would imagine that being on a major league bench would be better for Arcia than going down to the minors again, which would be another possibility. He didn't seem to be a problem last year after going down and eventually coming back up. If he plays well, he'll play more ... it's that simple. These guys are pros. They know that if they don't produce, they aren't going to play.

[wntrtxn21]

Arcia & Iglesias will probably cost a relatively cheap 6-7 million combined & you get both a high floor with Jose (1.5+ WAR each of last five seasons) & the possibility of maybe some magic with Orlando.

 

That might be the best bet. Get a regular starter in Iglesias who is by no means a world beater, but can provide some consistency. Keep Orlando as a sub that can come in and provide late game defense (with Iglesias shifting to 2B for Hiura), and play when you can capitalize off Arcia's hot streaks. I'm just not comfortable giving up on Orlando completely.

 

I could see it. It would not get the Brewers to league average SS production but at least it would (most likely) get them out of last place.

 

The Brewers do not have the luxury of acting like a "contending team" in this situation...a "contending team" might trade minor leaguers for a better SS but we do not have much in the system to trade. It might be different if the FA market was better, but .800+ OPS shortstops with plus defense are a rare commodity. That's why Arcia will probably be the opening day SS in 2020. And there is a decent chance he will be there in 2021 and 2022 as well.

 

Imo Iglesis gets them to better than avg. at SS. Not top OPS (.734) guy, but he's a better than avg. fielder and a good hitter. He would be a significant upgrade over Arcia.

[pacopete4]

By all accounts he’s a great clubhouse guy. There’s never been a mention of him ever being a bad teammate. He’s supported by many. These things just don’t sit well with me when it seems as though the Latin American players get questioned quite a bit with things like this. It’s as bad as “he doesn’t care, he’s always laughing and smiling” takes.

[TURBO]

By all accounts he’s a great clubhouse guy. There’s never been a mention of him ever being a bad teammate. He’s supported by many. These things just don’t sit well with me when it seems as though the Latin American players get questioned quite a bit with things like this. It’s as bad as “he doesn’t care, he’s always laughing and smiling” takes.

 

Race has nothing to do with my comment whatsoever. Playing that card is asinine.

[LouisEly]

Haven't seen his name brought up yet, but someone I'd be interested in bringing in on a minor league deal w/NRI is Nolan Fontana. He played poorly last year but was injured which likely affected his performance. His AAA OPS was likely boosted by the PCL, but he has a career minor league OBP of .380 and he bats LH. Could be a possible backup middle IF who soft platoons with Arcia if they don't acquire a SS. Otherwise, good AAA depth and worth a look to see if he can provide an OBP improvement - hard to be worse than Arcia in that department.

[KeithStone53151]

It's tough to imagine getting a significantly more valuable player outside of either didi, or the trade market.

 

It sounds like the Phillies are hoping to upgrade from Segura, could certainly look at bringing him back if he's interested(he may have no trade protection). He has 3/44ish left on his contract and a buyout of his 2023 option. That's probably a slightly negative value contract at this point, so maybe we could get him on a good deal. He was also injured last year so has serious bounceback potential.

[TURBO]

Jon Morosi of MLB Network reports that the Phillies are pursuing Didi Gregorius.

 

The Phillies already have Jean Segura, but if they added Gregorius the idea would be to move Segura to a different position or trade him. It's debatable whether Gregorius would be an upgrade at shortstop, but he no doubt has the endorsement of new Phils skipper Joe Girardi, who managed him in New York. The Reds have also been connected to Gregorius.

 

Source: Jon Morosi on Twitter

Nov 22, 2019, 3:13 PM ET

[wntrtxn21]

It's tough to imagine getting a significantly more valuable player outside of either didi, or the trade market.

 

It sounds like the Phillies are hoping to upgrade from Segura, could certainly look at bringing him back if he's interested(he may have no trade protection). He has 3/44ish left on his contract and a buyout of his 2023 option. That's probably a slightly negative value contract at this point, so maybe we could get him on a good deal. He was also injured last year so has serious bounceback potential.

 

I don't see Segura as an option at all. He is due $15M each year for the next 3 years. Way too much money for Stearns.

[MrTPlush]

It's tough to imagine getting a significantly more valuable player outside of either didi, or the trade market.

 

It sounds like the Phillies are hoping to upgrade from Segura, could certainly look at bringing him back if he's interested(he may have no trade protection). He has 3/44ish left on his contract and a buyout of his 2023 option. That's probably a slightly negative value contract at this point, so maybe we could get him on a good deal. He was also injured last year so has serious bounceback potential.

 

I don't see Segura as an option at all. He is due $15M each year for the next 3 years. Way too much money for Stearns.

 

You know...teams can offer money in a deal.

[adambr2]

Yep. If the Phils took on 5M a year or so for Segura that would be a solid acquisition for us especially since it wouldn't cost much in return for trade capital and would be an easy upgrade over Arcia.

[JohnBriggs12]

It's tough to imagine getting a significantly more valuable player outside of either didi, or the trade market.

 

It sounds like the Phillies are hoping to upgrade from Segura, could certainly look at bringing him back if he's interested(he may have no trade protection). He has 3/44ish left on his contract and a buyout of his 2023 option. That's probably a slightly negative value contract at this point, so maybe we could get him on a good deal. He was also injured last year so has serious bounceback potential.

 

I don't see Segura as an option at all. He is due $15M each year for the next 3 years. Way too much money for Stearns.

 

It's an overpay but not a ridiculous one if you get him in a pure salary dump and he's young enough and controllable to enough to move him for the last year or two of his contract by eating some of that deal. To sign most FA requires an overpay.

[pacopete4]

Wonder if Segura would even want to come back.

[PeaveyFury]

Looking at this stats, it's unreal how great he's been since literally the year after he left Milwaukee. Exactly what I'm sure will happen if/when we dump Arcia.

[endaround]

Looking at this stats, it's unreal how great he's been since literally the year after he left Milwaukee. Exactly what I'm sure will happen if/when we dump Arcia.

 

Segura was really good in Milwaukee his first year. Arcia has never been good.

[TURBO]

Looking at this stats, it's unreal how great he's been since literally the year after he left Milwaukee. Exactly what I'm sure will happen if/when we dump Arcia.

 

Segura was really good in Milwaukee his first year. Arcia has never been good.

 

but 2017 gave us a taste of what we thought was coming in Arcia, sadly, he has regressed in almost everything since.

 

There was a lot of reason to think the best was yet to come after 2017.

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah, you can’t just ignore a 2.5 WAR season. Definitely not as good as Segura’s one great Milwaukee season, but good nonetheless.

[wntrtxn21]

It's tough to imagine getting a significantly more valuable player outside of either didi, or the trade market.

 

It sounds like the Phillies are hoping to upgrade from Segura, could certainly look at bringing him back if he's interested(he may have no trade protection). He has 3/44ish left on his contract and a buyout of his 2023 option. That's probably a slightly negative value contract at this point, so maybe we could get him on a good deal. He was also injured last year so has serious bounceback potential.

 

I don't see Segura as an option at all. He is due $15M each year for the next 3 years. Way too much money for Stearns.

 

It's an overpay but not a ridiculous one if you get him in a pure salary dump and he's young enough and controllable to enough to move him for the last year or two of his contract by eating some of that deal. To sign most FA requires an overpay.

 

Segura last year: .280/.323 - 743 OPS - 12 HRs - 60 RBI ..... Iglesias: .288/.318 - 734 OPS - 11 HRs - 59 RBI.... Imo Stearns could sign Iglesias for a lot less money and get a better defensive player and a very comparable offensive player. Plus he wouldn't cost anything to sign.

[PeaveyFury]

 

Segura last year: .280/.323 - 743 OPS - 12 HRs - 60 RBI ..... Iglesias: .288/.318 - 734 OPS - 11 HRs - 59 RBI.... Imo Stearns could sign Iglesias for a lot less money and get a better defensive player and a very comparable offensive player. Plus he wouldn't cost anything to sign.

 

I suppose that depends on the assumption that Segura is destined to be the player he was last year, rather than the 3.5+-WAR player he was the three years before that, which is what a team would have to determine.

[RollieTime]

The issue with bringing Segura back is what happened in the past when he was with Milwaukee. He was a guy I knew would be better somewhere else after getting a fresh start with another team since his son passed away when he was with the Brewers. He was an extremely talented player and there was just too much baggage for him to find his groove with us. I would be hesitant on bringing him back to a place with all the memories and emotions he had while with us. That’s something you don’t outgrow or forget. And bringing him back would trigger those emotions again to a certain extent. If this idea is explored, I hope the Phillies and Brewers both have conversations with him and make sure he is okay with the circumstances and comfortable on making a return to Milwaukee.

[MrTPlush]

The issue with bringing Segura back is what happened in the past when he was with Milwaukee. He was a guy I knew would be better somewhere else after getting a fresh start with another team since his son passed away when he was with the Brewers. He was an extremely talented player and there was just too much baggage for him to find his groove with us. I would be hesitant on bringing him back to a place with all the memories and emotions he had while with us. That’s something you don’t outgrow or forget. And bringing him back would trigger those emotions again to a certain extent. If this idea is explored, I hope the Phillies and Brewers both have conversations with him and make sure he is okay with the circumstances and comfortable on making a return to Milwaukee.

 

What a crazy pile of assumptions that have absolutely nothing to back them up. Way to assume how things effect a guy and how it does years later.

[RollieTime]

The issue with bringing Segura back is what happened in the past when he was with Milwaukee. He was a guy I knew would be better somewhere else after getting a fresh start with another team since his son passed away when he was with the Brewers. He was an extremely talented player and there was just too much baggage for him to find his groove with us. I would be hesitant on bringing him back to a place with all the memories and emotions he had while with us. That’s something you don’t outgrow or forget. And bringing him back would trigger those emotions again to a certain extent. If this idea is explored, I hope the Phillies and Brewers both have conversations with him and make sure he is okay with the circumstances and comfortable on making a return to Milwaukee.

 

What a crazy pile of assumptions that have absolutely nothing to back them up. Way to assume how things effect a guy and how it does years later.

 

Being from a family where this has happened is enough for me to know it’s real. Maybe you haven’t had a young child pass away to know how much it effects you, how much it messes you up mentally even a year or two down the road. It is all that’s on your mind and no matter what you do, it’s always there. I always attributed his struggles to his mind being elsewhere after that situation. Trying to hit major league pitching when something that emotionally straining is on your mind every second I’m sure isn’t easy. I’ve seen it and I know it. That’s all I will mention on this topic. I’ve always wanted to mention this when Segura talks come up, but I haven’t until now fearing this might be how it’s met. But it’s a very real thing and I personally feel that his child passing away is what lead to his struggles. I hope the Brewers talk with Segura extensively before making a decision on bringing him back to Milwaukee. The last thing they need to do is put him into a situation he isn’t comfortable with.

[Jopal78]

First off, if Segura makes 15 million per season, the Brewers are not going to trade for him. That’s a substantial contract and they can likely get 80% of Segura’s anticipated production for 50% of his cost on the free agent market. Also, conveniently left out, if the Phillies ate cash in a Segura trade they’re going to want real players in return not dog rockets. Roll call on who is going to give up legit prospects to reacquire Segura. I’ll hang up and listen...