Shortstop for 2020

[clancyphile]

Gregarious is expensive, and I'm a little worried about the OBP. Career low of .276 in 2019 - Orlando Arcia's was at .283 for 2019.

 

He is an upgrade over Arcia in terms of power. He averaged 19 home runs a year from 2015 to 2019. His career OPS is 90 points higher than Arcia's, but the bulk of that is in SLG.

 

I'd prefer to try to pry Eigoro Mogi (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mogi--000eig) from NPB (.348 career OBP, .767 career OPS) or Ha-Seong Kim (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kim---001ha-) from KBO (.368 career OBP, .858 career OPS). Both play SS, both have demonstrated superb OBP skills, and both will arguably be cheaper than Didi.

[wntrtxn21]

Gregarious is expensive, and I'm a little worried about the OBP. Career low of .276 in 2019 - Orlando Arcia's was at .283 for 2019.

 

He is an upgrade over Arcia in terms of power. He averaged 19 home runs a year from 2015 to 2019. His career OPS is 90 points higher than Arcia's, but the bulk of that is in SLG.

 

I'd prefer to try to pry Eigoro Mogi (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mogi--000eig) from NPB (.348 career OBP, .767 career OPS) or Ha-Seong Kim (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kim---001ha-) from KBO (.368 career OBP, .858 career OPS). Both play SS, both have demonstrated superb OBP skills, and both will arguably be cheaper than Didi.

 

It would depend on the money for either one of those guys. Plus their stats are from an AA or AAA type leagues where few pitchers have the speed they see in the majors. Remember, Arcia had a .347 OBP at AA and a .417 OBP in Colo. Springs. Maybe Mogi or Kim would be better, maybe not. I'd rather they go after Iglesis than Gregorius or either Mogi or Kim.

[82brewcrew82]

Gregarious is expensive, and I'm a little worried about the OBP. Career low of .276 in 2019 - Orlando Arcia's was at .283 for 2019.

 

He is an upgrade over Arcia in terms of power. He averaged 19 home runs a year from 2015 to 2019. His career OPS is 90 points higher than Arcia's, but the bulk of that is in SLG.

 

I'd prefer to try to pry Eigoro Mogi (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mogi--000eig) from NPB (.348 career OBP, .767 career OPS) or Ha-Seong Kim (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kim---001ha-) from KBO (.368 career OBP, .858 career OPS). Both play SS, both have demonstrated superb OBP skills, and both will arguably be cheaper than Didi.

If you are going to throw darts at the dart board and hope something hits you might as well just hang on to Arcia. A proven upgrade is what is needed otherwise it's probably not worth it.

[clancyphile]

Gregarious is expensive, and I'm a little worried about the OBP. Career low of .276 in 2019 - Orlando Arcia's was at .283 for 2019.

 

He is an upgrade over Arcia in terms of power. He averaged 19 home runs a year from 2015 to 2019. His career OPS is 90 points higher than Arcia's, but the bulk of that is in SLG.

 

I'd prefer to try to pry Eigoro Mogi (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mogi--000eig) from NPB (.348 career OBP, .767 career OPS) or Ha-Seong Kim (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kim---001ha-) from KBO (.368 career OBP, .858 career OPS). Both play SS, both have demonstrated superb OBP skills, and both will arguably be cheaper than Didi.

If you are going to throw darts at the dart board and hope something hits you might as well just hang on to Arcia. A proven upgrade is what is needed otherwise it's probably not worth it.

 

We know who Arcia is, though.

 

Someone like Mori or Kim looks to be better on several grounds - particularly their walk rate.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Gregarious is expensive, and I'm a little worried about the OBP. Career low of .276 in 2019 - Orlando Arcia's was at .283 for 2019.

 

He is an upgrade over Arcia in terms of power. He averaged 19 home runs a year from 2015 to 2019. His career OPS is 90 points higher than Arcia's, but the bulk of that is in SLG.

 

I'd prefer to try to pry Eigoro Mogi (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mogi--000eig) from NPB (.348 career OBP, .767 career OPS) or Ha-Seong Kim (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kim---001ha-) from KBO (.368 career OBP, .858 career OPS). Both play SS, both have demonstrated superb OBP skills, and both will arguably be cheaper than Didi.

If you are going to throw darts at the dart board and hope something hits you might as well just hang on to Arcia. A proven upgrade is what is needed otherwise it's probably not worth it.

 

We know who Arcia is, though.

 

Someone like Mori or Kim looks to be better on several grounds - particularly their walk rate.

 

In a league that is the equivalent of AA baseball.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'm not against going after some rando guy from a foreign league, but that shouldn't be The Plan for the starting shortstop for next year. Throw the stats out in a league that's AA equivalent. That stuff doesn't translate to big leagues. Bring one of those guys in and give him a shot at playing a few days a week and see if he can produce. I'm ok with that, but that shouldn't be the plan for a guy you plan to get 500 - 600 plate appearances.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

We know who Arcia is, though.

 

Someone like Mori or Kim looks to be better on several grounds - particularly their walk rate.

But we don't know who Arcia is. He is only going to be 25 and was at once a top 15 prospect in all of baseball. I believe he is running out of time, but I don't think Stearns would replace him with another unknown. Arcia still has potential and could improve and be a 700-750 OPS good fielding SS like he did in 2017 as a 22 year old.

 

I'd prefer an upgrade at ss but without a obvious upgrade available that we can afford, I think they roll with Arcia for another year. I would love a Sogard to be brought in as a platoon (insurance) but that depends on what his market will be and whether other teams think he is a starting caliber player.

[82brewcrew82]

I really think they are going to non tender Shaw........Stearns certainly didn't sound confident that he would bounce back in his end of year news conference.

 

I guess we will find out by Dec. 2nd

They aren't going to just cut him loose without a significantly better alternative. Right now they don't have that. Until/unless they do, he will remain on the roster.

[owbc]

I'm glad I'm not the only one on the Arcia 2020 bandwagon. At this moment the guy is a textbook example of the kind of player the Brewers like to pursue in signings/trades...young, 3 years of team control, underachieving, etc.

 

I do not care at all that he has sucked for 2 years in a row. He already has one year of not sucking under his belt and the odds a 25 year old with that much big league experience will eventually figure it out are better than 50/50. And given the potential replacements being thrown around it's clear that the odds of Arcia breaking out are far higher than any of these other guys coming in and doing a better job.

 

Is Arcia a future star? No. But he would hardly be the first meh baseball player to put up a couple good years in his prime, and his prime comes at a very low price to the Brewers. The Brewers who are going to need a lot to go right to get back to the playoffs in 2020 and do not have the resources to do anything about shortstop. Arcia 2020!!!

[adambr2]

I do not care at all that he has sucked for 2 years in a row.

 

Really? That's a pretty big deal to me. I'd like to improve the areas of weakness on the club and shortstop has been the biggest weakness on the team for the better part of 4 years now.

[owbc]

I do not care at all that he has sucked for 2 years in a row.

 

Really? That's a pretty big deal to me. I'd like to improve the areas of weakness on the club and shortstop has been the biggest weakness on the team for the better part of 4 years now.

 

If he was 29 like Travis Shaw then I would definitely care that he sucked.

 

I agree about wanting to improve SS, I just don't think the external options are more likely to succeed than just going with Arcia again and hoping he gets better. Which I will admit is a less-than-ideal solution. And having some cheap alternatives around is a good idea.

[adambr2]

I do not care at all that he has sucked for 2 years in a row.

 

Really? That's a pretty big deal to me. I'd like to improve the areas of weakness on the club and shortstop has been the biggest weakness on the team for the better part of 4 years now.

 

If he was 29 like Travis Shaw then I would definitely care that he sucked.

 

I agree about wanting to improve SS, I just don't think the external options are more likely to succeed than just going with Arcia again and hoping he gets better. Which I will admit is a less-than-ideal solution. And having some cheap alternatives around is a good idea.

 

I can't totally disagree on what the available alternatives might be. I'd guess they are probably kicking around some trade ideas but unless they are really going to go all-in on a big fish like Seager I don't know what will really be out there.

 

I'd go all-in if Lindor became available to the extent of centerpiecing a deal around Hader, but if the Indians do make Lindor available I doubt that is the direction they will want to go.

 

Jean Segura is a guy who might be relatively inexpensive as far as trade capital goes, but I don't know if the Phillies will really be looking to move him unless they have other big plans for their middle infield in 2020. It's not like they can't afford Segura's contract.

[MrTPlush]

We probably targeted players like Arcia in the past cause we were yearly losers trying to find a needle in a haystack. Contending teams don’t like the Arcia’s of the world.

 

His one decent year really gets talked up like it was something special. 2.5 WAR and a .731 OPS...not all that great.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I do not care at all that he has sucked for 2 years in a row.

 

Really? That's a pretty big deal to me. I'd like to improve the areas of weakness on the club and shortstop has been the biggest weakness on the team for the better part of 4 years now.

 

If he was 29 like Travis Shaw then I would definitely care that he sucked.

 

I agree about wanting to improve SS, I just don't think the external options are more likely to succeed than just going with Arcia again and hoping he gets better. Which I will admit is a less-than-ideal solution. And having some cheap alternatives around is a good idea.

 

It is going to be interesting to see what happens this offseason. I tend to agree that the external choices, at least in the free agent market, look pretty bleak, so I'm at the point where I'm ready to bank on Arcia realizing his upside rather than go out and grab a guy that doesn't offer any. Of course, they could very well be looking at the trade market for a possible upgrade. I do agree that we need more production out of that spot. I just am not ready to write off the idea that Orlando Arcia can offer that increased production.

[82brewcrew82]

We probably targeted players like Arcia in the past cause we were yearly losers trying to find a needle in a haystack. Contending teams don’t like the Arcia’s of the world.

 

His one decent year really gets talked up like it was something special. 2.5 WAR and a .731 OPS...not all that great.

I disagree in that finding needles in haystacks is a core operating principal for this organization, not some temporary measure to cobble together a roster. Has Arcia been acceptable the last two years, no. Are the realistic alternatives acceptable, probably not. Is a .731 OPS great, no, but it is acceptable assuming the rest of the line up is viable.

 

If the team can add a catcher, a TOR starting pitcher, an alternative at third, a bullpen arm or two and a RH platoon option at 1st, then I'd worry about Arcia. Every one of those other items are more pressing in my mind.

[MrTPlush]

not some temporary measure to cobble together a roster.

If the team can add a catcher, a TOR starting pitcher, an alternative at third, a bullpen arm or two and a RH platoon option at 1st, then I'd worry about Arcia. Every one of those other items are more pressing in my mind.

 

 

I didn't say it was to just cobble together a roster. When you are a rebuilding team you can afford to take chances on guys and hope they miraculously find out how to use their long lost potential they apparently had. You aren't trying to win 90+ games so if the player bombs it means nothing to the team in the short term.

 

The Brewers are not in that kind of position and taking a slight upgrade with a known ceiling versus hoping for an Arcia breakout is typically the wiser move.

[sveumrules]

Arcia & Iglesias will probably cost a relatively cheap 6-7 million combined & you get both a high floor with Jose (1.5+ WAR each of last five seasons) & the possibility of maybe some magic with Orlando.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Arcia & Iglesias will probably cost a relatively cheap 6-7 million combined & you get both a high floor with Jose (1.5+ WAR each of last five seasons) & the possibility of maybe some magic with Orlando.

 

That might be the best bet. Get a regular starter in Iglesias who is by no means a world beater, but can provide some consistency. Keep Orlando as a sub that can come in and provide late game defense (with Iglesias shifting to 2B for Hiura), and play when you can capitalize off Arcia's hot streaks. I'm just not comfortable giving up on Orlando completely.

[owbc]

Arcia & Iglesias will probably cost a relatively cheap 6-7 million combined & you get both a high floor with Jose (1.5+ WAR each of last five seasons) & the possibility of maybe some magic with Orlando.

 

That might be the best bet. Get a regular starter in Iglesias who is by no means a world beater, but can provide some consistency. Keep Orlando as a sub that can come in and provide late game defense (with Iglesias shifting to 2B for Hiura), and play when you can capitalize off Arcia's hot streaks. I'm just not comfortable giving up on Orlando completely.

 

I could see it. It would not get the Brewers to league average SS production but at least it would (most likely) get them out of last place.

 

The Brewers do not have the luxury of acting like a "contending team" in this situation...a "contending team" might trade minor leaguers for a better SS but we do not have much in the system to trade. It might be different if the FA market was better, but .800+ OPS shortstops with plus defense are a rare commodity. That's why Arcia will probably be the opening day SS in 2020. And there is a decent chance he will be there in 2021 and 2022 as well.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The ties cut today hint towards going an entirely new direction in my opinion. Thames was a value at $7.5 million given his production. Arcia's production is non-existent. I've also never seen Stearns so openly call out a player when citing the need for more offensively and defensively as he publicly did with Arcia. That doesn't scream hoping for improvement from the same player to me. My gut tells me they're tired of this "all or nothing HR offense" and are trying to build a more balanced lineup. Either put the ball in play and get on base or hit balls over the fence, with a good mix of both. Arcia really does neither.

[wallus]

Didi did not get extended the QO today.

[TURBO]

What will Arcia's attitude be like if we went the route mentioned above? I can see him not liking that situation one single bit and becoming a problem in the clubhouse.

[82brewcrew82]

not some temporary measure to cobble together a roster.

If the team can add a catcher, a TOR starting pitcher, an alternative at third, a bullpen arm or two and a RH platoon option at 1st, then I'd worry about Arcia. Every one of those other items are more pressing in my mind.

 

 

I didn't say it was to just cobble together a roster. When you are a rebuilding team you can afford to take chances on guys and hope they miraculously find out how to use their long lost potential they apparently had. You aren't trying to win 90+ games so if the player bombs it means nothing to the team in the short term.

 

The Brewers are not in that kind of position and taking a slight upgrade with a known ceiling versus hoping for an Arcia breakout is typically the wiser move.

I guess I just disagree with the principal that this team that doesn't take chances on guys. They take chances constantly on players and I think that is a necessary strategy for a team like this. The roster was literally littered with players they took chances on.

[long ball]

Didi did not get extended the QO today.

If the Brewers don't re-sign Grandal, Didi is probably my second choice of "realistic" position player targets. (assuming rendon and donaldson are not in the "budget")

[pacopete4]

What will Arcia's attitude be like if we went the route mentioned above? I can see him not liking that situation one single bit and becoming a problem in the clubhouse.

 

Give me a break. You based this on what?