2020 Brewers Starters

[LouisEly]

Woody, Chase, and then three of Houser, Davies, Gio, Lyles, and Nelson depending on what Gio/Lyles/Nelson are willing to come back for and how Nelson looks in spring training. AAA depth is Burnes, Peralta (too early to give up on him as a starter), Supak, Brown, Bettinger. If they need more than 10, their season is toast.

 

I do give some credit to the thought of moving on from three of Davies/Gio/Lyles/Nelson and making a big free agent splash. If they do, they'll need Houser and his pre-arb salary in the rotation instead of those four in order to afford it.

[JosephC]

 

 

2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy

 

 

Please find somebody with an ERA and FIP under 5 in their last 300 innings the next time you talk about trading away Davies or Anderson or Burnes (much less a combination of them plus prospects to boot).

 

I was really high on Dylan Bundy two years ago but have come around to the idea that the guy just isn't very good. Late bloomer at 27? Definitely could happen. But I'm not trading away anything of significant value in order to find out.

[MrTPlush]

Good chance it’s going to be Woodruff, Anderson, Davies, Hauser and then one of Burnes, Sutter, or Faria. I wouldn’t mind bringing Gio or Lyles back as depth depending on how the market plays out.

 

I’d venture to say the chances that happens is lower than 5%. The rotation was the problem this year...it was really bad. We tried to do it internally and the internal options bombed so bad most were sent to AAA at one point.

 

Stearns is going to get one notable addition...at least. If not he should be on the hot seat and get fired if the rotation bombs once again. At some point this is a competing team with high potential. Add to it and overspend a bit if you have to.

[homer]

Good chance it’s going to be Woodruff, Anderson, Davies, Hauser and then one of Burnes, Sutter, or Faria. I wouldn’t mind bringing Gio or Lyles back as depth depending on how the market plays out.

 

I’d venture to say the chances that happens is lower than 5%. The rotation was the problem this year...it was really bad. We tried to do it internally and the internal options bombed so bad most were sent to AAA at one point.

 

Stearns is going to get one notable addition...at least. If not he should be on the hot seat and get fired if the rotation bombs once again. At some point this is a competing team with high potential. Add to it and overspend a bit if you have to.

 

He shouldn't be and he won't be.

[MrTPlush]

Good chance it’s going to be Woodruff, Anderson, Davies, Hauser and then one of Burnes, Sutter, or Faria. I wouldn’t mind bringing Gio or Lyles back as depth depending on how the market plays out.

 

I’d venture to say the chances that happens is lower than 5%. The rotation was the problem this year...it was really bad. We tried to do it internally and the internal options bombed so bad most were sent to AAA at one point.

 

Stearns is going to get one notable addition...at least. If not he should be on the hot seat and get fired if the rotation bombs once again. At some point this is a competing team with high potential. Add to it and overspend a bit if you have to.

 

He shouldn't be and he won't be.

 

Maybe in your opinion. He won’t sit on his hands and roll the dice on a bunch of mediocre sure things and a few internal options so it is irrelevant.

 

If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

 

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.

 

But Stearns isn’t an idiot and like any other semi competent GM will go out and try to fix his biggest problem.

[FVBrewerFan]

They will have a hard time lowering the team salary next year. Braun and Cain still there, filling out the roster puts them right up to this year's level at least. Really doubt they pay big bucks for a SP. I know you used the word notable, maybe you dont mean a big contract.

[DHonks]

Woodruff should be the only lock, IMO.

 

Brewers won't be making the playoffs anytime soon with this hodgepodge of mediocre talent in the starting rotation.

 

Let FA's Chacin, Gio, Pomeranz and Lyles walk. (sign a better Free Agent if possible)

 

Look to trade Anderson and Davies while they still have any semblance of value.

 

Put Freddy back in rotation and let him figure it out.

 

Wildcards: Jake Faria, Corbin Burnes, Jimmy Nelson, Adrian Houser, Brent Suter

 

Pretty sure they’re going to make the playoffs this year, and I like their chances next year. You seem to think Chase Anderson isn’t good. He’s been very good for us since we acquired him

[DHonks]

Gio should be locked up now. The way that the market is, gio could be had for 2/10. Sorry, but Jordan shouldn’t be the quality we go for. Get gio as a backend, trade some surplus and sign a frontline starter to pair with woodruff. No matter who we buy the hitting stinks so let’s try some pitching for once.

 

Gio was more or less a league average pitcher in 2018. This year he has pitched a total of 50 innings and was released by one team. Guys like that don't typically have teams banging in their door for multi-year deals. I think he's definitely someone we could look to bring back for 2020 though.

 

Was Gio released? I thought he opted out?

[wntrtxn21]

Woodruff should be the only lock, IMO.

 

Brewers won't be making the playoffs anytime soon with this hodgepodge of mediocre talent in the starting rotation.

Let FA's Chacin, Gio, Pomeranz and Lyles walk. (sign a better Free Agent if possible)

 

Look to trade Anderson and Davies while they still have any semblance of value.

 

Put Freddy back in rotation and let him figure it out.

 

Wildcards: Jake Faria, Corbin Burnes, Jimmy Nelson, Adrian Houser, Brent Suter

 

Your plan only seems make the rotation worse...which I give it to ya, that's pretty hard to do.

 

What exactly is your plan to improve the rotation? Because all you have said is keep Woodruff, let the trash walk, then trade anyone with a hint of value, put Peralta back in (downgrade), and mention (mostly) a bunch of garbage as possibilities. Your wildcards can't possibly be filling 2/5 of the spots (as you mention Woodruff in, probably a FA signing, and Peralta in your rotation). Seems, at best, similar to this year...likely worse

 

1. Sign MadBum as Free Agent

2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy

 

2020 Rotation

1. Brandon Woodruff

2. Madison Bumgarner

3. Dylan Bundy

4. Freddy Peralta

5. Jake Faria

 

Swingman: Brent Suter

 

Rotation Depth:

Whoever we don't trade of Davies/Anderson/Burnes

Jimmy Nelson

Adrian Houser

 

Prospects on the way...

Ethan Small

Aaron Ashby

Drew Rasmussen

Trey Supak

Zack Brown

etc.

 

Replace Moustakas and/or Grandal with cheaper options so we can afford to sign MadBum or Ryu, perhaps

 

You were being facetious right? Madbum and Dylan Bundy!! The same Bundy who has an FIP of 4.70-4.38-5.17-5.06 the last 4 years. Both Davies and Anderson are much better options than Bundy. Burnes would be a wash as bad as he has been this year. Bumgarner is nowhere near the pitcher he once was and will command way too much money for the Brewers to be in the running.

The Brewers could do much better than M.B. throwing around the kind of money he'll get.

[Lathund]

If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

 

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.

 

There's a very good chance that the entire reason the two big one year additions were possible was that they rolled the dice on the starters, as in there not being the funds to really sign both Moose/Grandal and a starter or two. Spending money on starters would've meant rolling the dice on inferior options to Moose/Grandal in that scenario.

[Brew crew 92]

They will have a hard time lowering the team salary next year. Braun and Cain still there, filling out the roster puts them right up to this year's level at least. Really doubt they pay big bucks for a SP. I know you used the word notable, maybe you dont mean a big contract.

 

With everything being equal(Attendance),if Stearns/Attanasio decide to go for it in 2020, instead of re-tool, payroll could be 9 mil higher(136) and still make the same profit. So based upon that figure, and the fact of wanting to leave room for potential additions at the deadline, I’m guessing payroll near this year’s payroll, so with Increases in salary(Yelich Cain) arbitration etc. that probably doesn’t leave room for a Higher salaried FA pitcher. Which based upon Stearns history isn’t his M/O anyhow. So agree with FV here.

[MrTPlush]

If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

 

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.

 

There's a very good chance that the entire reason the two big one year additions were possible was that they rolled the dice on the starters, as in there not being the funds to really sign both Moose/Grandal and a starter or two. Spending money on starters would've meant rolling the dice on inferior options to Moose/Grandal in that scenario.

 

Free Agency wise, sure, I would venture to guess that is pretty true/accurate. Though, again, guys like Gio Gonzalez and Wade Miley could have been had for very little. Now I am not trying to say that in retrospect...but it was two veterans that could have easily solidified a spot in our rotation that pitched well for us last year. There were and will be trade options available and as much as our farm system lacks we can still make notable/major trades with it. Not to mention last offseason we could have used one or more of those "roll the dice pitchers" we ended up using as a major piece to a trade. Peralta and Burnes both probably had quite high trade value last winter.

 

I like Stearn's general thought of "his price" or not overpaying so to speak. At the same time this team is a ticking clock and it will likely go from contender to rebuilding faster than one would generally hope. We have some big time championship quality pieces right now (Yelich/Hiura/Hader). Probably best to not constantly try and piece together a rotation of prospects and over the hill veteran types.

 

Woodruff/Davies/Anderson is a good start. I think ideally you sign Lyles/Gonzalez (or some other vet) to fill the #5 spot and acquire a more top of the rotation arm to fill the other spot. I am not saying full fledged ace, but something a bit more flashy than the Davies/Anderson's of the world. I don't think that is particularly hard to pull off. I suppose Houser has time to make the Brewers comfortable with him getting one of the spots, but it is easier to acquire in the winter and have Houser/Suter/etc. fill in when injuries happen (or just poor play) midseason. One of our young guys will get plenty of starts and likely an extended look in 2020 whether they start in the rotation or not. Right now 3 of our original starters are on the DL, 1 is in the bullpen still sucking, and 1 sucked so bad he is in the minors now.

[Surhoff5]

If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

 

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.

 

There's a very good chance that the entire reason the two big one year additions were possible was that they rolled the dice on the starters, as in there not being the funds to really sign both Moose/Grandal and a starter or two. Spending money on starters would've meant rolling the dice on inferior options to Moose/Grandal in that scenario.

 

Free Agency wise, sure, I would venture to guess that is pretty true/accurate. Though, again, guys like Gio Gonzalez and Wade Miley could have been had for very little. Now I am not trying to say that in retrospect...but it was two veterans that could have easily solidified a spot in our rotation that pitched well for us last year. There were and will be trade options available and as much as our farm system lacks we can still make notable/major trades with it. Not to mention last offseason we could have used one or more of those "roll the dice pitchers" we ended up using as a major piece to a trade. Peralta and Burnes both probably had quite high trade value last winter.

 

I like Stearn's general thought of "his price" or not overpaying so to speak. At the same time this team is a ticking clock and it will likely go from contender to rebuilding faster than one would generally hope. We have some big time championship quality pieces right now (Yelich/Hiura/Hader). Probably best to not constantly try and piece together a rotation of prospects and over the hill veteran types.

 

Woodruff/Davies/Anderson is a good start. I think ideally you sign Lyles/Gonzalez (or some other vet) to fill the #5 spot and acquire a more top of the rotation arm to fill the other spot. I am not saying full fledged ace, but something a bit more flashy than the Davies/Anderson's of the world. I don't think that is particularly hard to pull off. I suppose Houser has time to make the Brewers comfortable with him getting one of the spots, but it is easier to acquire in the winter and have Houser/Suter/etc. fill in when injuries happen (or just poor play) midseason. One of our young guys will get plenty of starts and likely an extended look in 2020 whether they start in the rotation or not. Right now 3 of our original starters are on the DL, 1 is in the bullpen still sucking, and 1 sucked so bad he is in the minors now.

 

 

I guess my problem with this thinking is that if they signed Wade Miley and Gio, who was going to be out of the rotation? Chacin was a lock after the way he pitched last year. I think Burnes was a lock considering how he pitched out of the bullpen during the playoff run and his prospect status. Davies and Woody were going to be given every chance to start. I have never been high on Freddy, but they had Chase out of the bullpen in case one of the guys failed. Unfortunately, two of the young guys bombed and Chacin pitched worse than he has in a few years.

 

In the last three years, Stearns has thrown a hodgepodge of starting pitching at the wall. In 2017, Nelson and Anderson pitched like TOR pitchers. In 2018, it was Chacin and Miley. In 2019, it was Woody and Davies early on and Anderson lately. I don't think it's a bad philosophy. Its just everything else went wrong this year, including the bullpen blowing up. How many of the guys that were traded or signed in the last couple years have been good?

[A Swing and A Drive]

 

 

2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy

 

 

Please find somebody with an ERA and FIP under 5 in their last 300 innings the next time you talk about trading away Davies or Anderson or Burnes (much less a combination of them plus prospects to boot).

 

I was really high on Dylan Bundy two years ago but have come around to the idea that the guy just isn't very good. Late bloomer at 27? Definitely could happen. But I'm not trading away anything of significant value in order to find out.

 

I'm sure you would have made a similar statement when Orioles traded Jake Arietta to the Cubs at about the same age during a 7.23 ERA season with a 5 FIP.

 

Bundy has a much higher ceiling than any of the mediocre arms I proposed trading.

 

Sometimes you need to take a chance on talent, rather than cling to guys that are not difference makers, IMO.

[jjfanec]

 

 

2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy

 

 

Please find somebody with an ERA and FIP under 5 in their last 300 innings the next time you talk about trading away Davies or Anderson or Burnes (much less a combination of them plus prospects to boot).

 

I was really high on Dylan Bundy two years ago but have come around to the idea that the guy just isn't very good. Late bloomer at 27? Definitely could happen. But I'm not trading away anything of significant value in order to find out.

 

I'm sure you would have made a similar statement when Orioles traded Jake Arietta to the Cubs at about the same age during a 7.23 ERA season with a 5 FIP.

 

Bundy has a much higher ceiling than any of the mediocre arms I proposed trading.

 

Sometimes you need to take a chance on talent, rather than cling to guys that are not difference makers, IMO.

Does Bundy have that much higher ceiling than Burnes? I mean we are just talking about potential not if it will actually happen so if we are focusing on that I think Burnes is right up there. Bundy has only had one year that was even kind of ok.

[MrTPlush]

I guess my problem with this thinking is that if they signed Wade Miley and Gio, who was going to be out of the rotation? Chacin was a lock after the way he pitched last year. I think Burnes was a lock considering how he pitched out of the bullpen during the playoff run and his prospect status. Davies and Woody were going to be given every chance to start. I have never been high on Freddy, but they had Chase out of the bullpen in case one of the guys failed. Unfortunately, two of the young guys bombed and Chacin pitched worse than he has in a few years.

 

In the last three years, Stearns has thrown a hodgepodge of starting pitching at the wall. In 2017, Nelson and Anderson pitched like TOR pitchers. In 2018, it was Chacin and Miley. In 2019, it was Woody and Davies early on and Anderson lately. I don't think it's a bad philosophy. Its just everything else went wrong this year, including the bullpen blowing up. How many of the guys that were traded or signed in the last couple years have been good?

 

Well for starters I wouldn't have signed both. Personally I wanted Miley because he seemed more like a guy who could pitch deeper into games...whereas Gonzalez is getting pulled after 5 max. Peralta wouldn't have been anywhere near my rotation.

 

For what it is worth my rotation would have been the following to start the year:

 

1) Chacin

2) Miley

3) Burnes

4) Woodruff

5) Anderson

 

I wouldn't have had a problem rolling the dice on the above rotation. I would have easily slid Burnes out of the rotation if an acceptable deal for a starter had become available. Only reason being you know many injuries/disappointment will happen and Burnes pitched so well out of the pen. What was the worst case there? The rotation is doing well/healthy and there is no spot for Burnes so instead he dominates out of the pen? Can't say that would have been a loss.

 

Yah, injuries really hit us bad this year...still a pretty disastrous roster construction. Chacin regression is on Stearns though. What I mean is that if you are going to construct a rotation with average starting pitchers like that they almost always have a crap year for you at some point. If he goes into next year with average veteran pitchers and unproven guys it is almost assured to be quite similar results. Maybe a guy or two working out, but a couple disappointments to match.

 

Personally I would like to see a dependable starter added that has a track record of success. Woodruff, Anderson, and Davies should all be good bets to get close to expectations...which naturally means one will probably be a notable disappointment. I don't like filling the last two spots with wild card types. They need another dependable guys to hopefully give us three good starters and ideally a fourth too.

 

The way the rotation was constructed going into the year it isn't really shocking the majority totally bombed. Stearns needs to put the team in a position where multiple starters aren't needed at the deadline. That is not a good place to be.

[Surhoff5]

Well for starters I wouldn't have signed both. Personally I wanted Miley because he seemed more like a guy who could pitch deeper into games...whereas Gonzalez is getting pulled after 5 max. Peralta wouldn't have been anywhere near my rotation.

 

For what it is worth my rotation would have been the following to start the year:

 

1) Chacin

2) Miley

3) Burnes

4) Woodruff

5) Anderson

 

I wouldn't have had a problem rolling the dice on the above rotation. I would have easily slid Burnes out of the rotation if an acceptable deal for a starter had become available. Only reason being you know many injuries/disappointment will happen and Burnes pitched so well out of the pen. What was the worst case there? The rotation is doing well/healthy and there is no spot for Burnes so instead he dominates out of the pen? Can't say that would have been a loss.

 

Yah, injuries really hit us bad this year...still a pretty disastrous roster construction. Chacin regression is on Stearns though. What I mean is that if you are going to construct a rotation with average starting pitchers like that they almost always have a crap year for you at some point. If he goes into next year with average veteran pitchers and unproven guys it is almost assured to be quite similar results. Maybe a guy or two working out, but a couple disappointments to match.

 

Personally I would like to see a dependable starter added that has a track record of success. Woodruff, Anderson, and Davies should all be good bets to get close to expectations...which naturally means one will probably be a notable disappointment. I don't like filling the last two spots with wild card types. They need another dependable guys to hopefully give us three good starters and ideally a fourth too.

 

The way the rotation was constructed going into the year it isn't really shocking the majority totally bombed. Stearns needs to put the team in a position where multiple starters aren't needed at the deadline. That is not a good place to be.

 

I think we are pretty much on the same page. My only thing is that you could have just as easily said that about Woody as you did about Burnes starting the year in the bullpen. They had to let those two guys start in my opinion. A small market team like the Brewers needs to develop young pitching. Burnes was a disaster, but I think if you asked most people before the year, he was much more of a guarantee than Woody...and I am the world's biggest Woodruff fan.

 

I also agree that they should have resigned Miley and that Peralta should have been nowhere near the rotation. That is my only complaint of the offseason. He was just so cheap and according to some sources, wanted to be in Milwaukee. If they would have resigned Miley, I am guessing it would have been Davies to the bullpen (considering he was our #5 to start the season)... but to have him and Anderson as depth would have saved them from regression/poor performances.

[MrTPlush]

If they would have resigned Miley, I am guessing it would have been Davies to the bullpen (considering he was our #5 to start the season)... but to have him and Anderson as depth would have saved them from regression/poor performances.

 

Looking back I think this was a big mistake going into the season. Their only real depth was Chase Anderson. Being realistic we knew one of those three young starters was going to bomb. After that who was the solid depth, no one. If we aren't going to have elite starters we better make sure we have the depth to always have reliable guys. I mean thank god the rotation bombed fast enough so we decided to pick up Gonzalez.

[wntrtxn21]

 

 

2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy

 

 

Please find somebody with an ERA and FIP under 5 in their last 300 innings the next time you talk about trading away Davies or Anderson or Burnes (much less a combination of them plus prospects to boot).

 

I was really high on Dylan Bundy two years ago but have come around to the idea that the guy just isn't very good. Late bloomer at 27? Definitely could happen. But I'm not trading away anything of significant value in order to find out.

 

I'm sure you would have made a similar statement when Orioles traded Jake Arietta to the Cubs at about the same age during a 7.23 ERA season with a 5 FIP.

 

Bundy has a much higher ceiling than any of the mediocre arms I proposed trading.

 

Sometimes you need to take a chance on talent, rather than cling to guys that are not difference makers, IMO.

 

What is Bundy's "higher ceiling"? He tops out at maybe a #4 IF he gets better. Certainly not any more of a difference maker than what the Brewer's already have. I'd rather have an Anderson who is doing very well, than let him go for a guy who has shown absolutely nothing and has pitched much worse than any of the three you'd trade for him.

[reillymcshane]

I could see the Crew go with Woodruff, Davies, Anderson, then look for one of Nelson, Houser, Peralta or Burnes to step into another slot.

 

Finally, I wouldn't be shocked if they added a FA arm. Sure they will look at the good players - but they will cost a ton (which means we won't sign Cole or Strasburg. Instead, we'll go after a solid, innings eater type. They'll look for reliability over risk.

 

Again, that's just a guess.

[Jopal78]

Stearns repeatedly said he likes his pitching better than most therefore 2020 starters likely to be: Woodruff, Davies, Anderson, Burnes and Houser/Jimmy Nelson.

 

Stearns didn’t throw away millions on Nelson for nothing; he’ll get another chance.

[Devinep]

Id they’re not willing to invest in pitching with a front end and back end rotation addition, they might as well go full on rebuild

[wntrtxn21]

Stearns repeatedly said he likes his pitching better than most therefore 2020 starters likely to be: Woodruff, Davies, Anderson, Burnes and Houser/Jimmy Nelson.

 

Stearns didn’t throw away millions on Nelson for nothing; he’ll get another chance.

 

Burnes has been so awful he is quickly pitching himself out of the picture. He just got demoted to AA, and is now nothing more than a pie-in-the-sky candidate to even make the big leagues next year. Nelson is in danger of non-renewal and still unable to pitch. I think Stearns may use Davies as part of a deal for a #2-3 starter over the winter.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Stearns repeatedly said he likes his pitching better than most therefore 2020 starters likely to be: Woodruff, Davies, Anderson, Burnes and Houser/Jimmy Nelson.

 

Stearns didn’t throw away millions on Nelson for nothing; he’ll get another chance.

 

Burnes has been so awful he is quickly pitching himself out of the picture. He just got demoted to AA, and is now nothing more than a pie-in-the-sky candidate to even make the big leagues next year. Nelson is in danger of non-renewal and still unable to pitch. I think Stearns may use Davies as part of a deal for a #2-3 starter over the winter.

 

Nelson pitched a scoreless inning (1 K, 1 BB) for San Antonio last night.

[MrTPlush]

If Nelson can make himself look even half relevant either in AAA or the MLB level by the end of the year I am sure they will pay him the ~$3.7mil to come back. If he doesn't they may still offer him arby and bring him into ST with the option of dumping him if he looks terrible then too.