2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread

[HiAndTight]

I think there is too much young talent at WR to only keep five, and if Tonyan has made strides then I think Lewis gets cut.

 

I also think they try to sneak Shepherd onto the practice squad. Maybe offer him a higher salary to stay. When other teams have inquired about guys on the Packers practice squad, the Packers have bumped their salaries up, sometimes to league minimum, to get them to stay.

 

WR locks: Adams, Kumerow, Allison, MVS

 

Competing for last two spots: ESB, Lazard, Davis, Moore, Shepherd

 

I think the last two spots go to Lazard (special teams play gives him the edge) and one of ESB or Davis.

 

I think we are seeing why they didn't draft a WR this year.

 

Agree that they'll keep at least 6 at WR. I don't think they can afford to cut Lewis. Tonyan HAS made enormous strides, but he's still a guy who was playing QB not long ago, then WR'er, then TE last year and this year. You have Lewis on the team because he's almost like an extra tackle with his blocking. The one thing Graham, Tonyan, Sternberger all have in common is none of them are very good blockers. Definitely not compared with Lewis. And if the Packers really want to use a lof of 21 personnel, you gotta keep 4 TE's I'd think.

 

 

I agree with everything else though. I think they could and put Shepard on the ST's and then offer him the equivalent of an active 54 man salary if someone wants to sign him as they've done in years past... as you said.

 

I'd be pretty shocked if St. Brown would find himself off the roster. It seems like he just hasn't gotten many balls the first two games...despite getting open at least a few of the times I've seen. I'm guessing the tape will answer a lot more questions for the coaches.

 

Lazard has done pretty much everything he can to play himself onto the team and I'd be disappointed to see them give up on EQ so fast. He's just too big, too athletic.

 

But based on the roster we've agreed upon, they don't really have a kick returner and they have...what, Tramon to return punts?

 

We COULD have a laughably large WR'er core though. The type that Getlemen dreamed of when he was in Carolina and specifically stated he wanted large WR'ers to play with Newton(while also stating that he didn't value the CB position very highly).

 

Adams-6'1 215

Allison-6'3 ~210

Kumerow 6'4 215(Did not realize he's already 27. Does not give him a very big window, but doesn't matter, clearly earned not just a spot, but a lot of reps).

MVS-6'4 205

St. Brown 6'5 215

Lazard- 6'5 230

 

That's an enormous WR'er core!

Even the "little guy," Davis is listed at 6'1 188, but reportedly put on 10-15 this off-season.

 

Then throw in 6'7 Graham...and Rodgers should get used to throwing the ball up a bit more this year on 3rd down.

[KeithStone53151]

I would assume all(or at least some of) those big WR should make for physical run blockers as well. A small part of what made the Bears run game so effective a few years back was Marshall and Jeffrey dominating cb's on the outside and taking them out of the play consistently.

[HiAndTight]

Davis is a guy you're being a bit unfair IMO. Useless? He had a hamstring issue last year. He came back from it and then injured it again. He probably came back too soon and they brought him back off IR using the one "designated to return," slot they get. He played in all 16 games his second year and was a healthy scratch early in his rookie year as best as I can remember.

 

So to this point, he's been hurt last year with one injury that's cost him playing time. "Useless," is overstepping the mark. Especially if he's as improved as the Packers are suggesting. Though, it's impossible to know how much "the Packers really like this kid," from Harlan and Lofton is legit and how much is them asking about a guy in the prep and them saying "He's looked good all camp."

 

He seems to be pretty clearly the best return man we've got. He's had some really nice returns for the Packers(helped them salvage that Bengals OT game when he had that last 65-yard return the week he won special teams player of the week) Obviously, he hasn't caught many balls. I don't know how much of that is him not being open the times he's played on offense and how much of it is him not having attained BFF-blood pact status with Rodgers.

 

I thought he looked pretty good this year, but he'll have to do something these next two weeks or the Packers are going to go with the younger guy.

 

 

The three RB's seem pretty clearly set as Jones/Jamal Williams and Dexter Williams. And Jones is the only servicable return man in that group and they're not likely to take their top back and use him on returns. I guess Carson has looked like he could be that 3rd man given the mental mistakes Dexter Williams has made, but I really doubt it.

 

Shepard could win the job, but I think Davis is at least as likely. He needs to finish strong and has a couple of good games.

 

Theres no doubt that Davis is talented. But there's also the old adage that "you can't make the club in the tub", and that applies fully to him as well. There was some scuttle butt that they tried to deal him last year, but he was hurt (again). I think their patience for this guy is just about done. He just doesn't have the frame to stand up to the rigors and pounding a NFL WR and returner takes.

 

 

Ok, you're saying they couldn't trade him last year because he was hurt. -Again. He wasn't, that was the first injury that cost him playing time. Healthy his rookie year, healthy his second year, missed time last year with a hamstring injury. So I don't see why this first-year staff and his first-year coach who would be losing their patience with him or why you'd call him "useless." If you don't like him and you just don't think he should make the team, that's fine. But you're exaggerating the facts to support that case. And for the record, the injury he has now is a stinger. A fluke injury. that's as preventable as a concussion.

 

 

Do you think maybe that stinger was the reason Rodgers was so upset? One of the guys that both Rodgers and Bakhtiari have said could be the "breakout player" because he fits the system so well? So if he doesn't make the team, I really doubt it'll be because of any of the old cliches about "the best ability is...," or being in the "tub" after suffering a stinger during a joint practice that upset Rodgers enough that he publicly spoke out about it. It'll likely just be becuase the Packers liked the younger guys who would be cheaper in future years more than Davis.

[HiAndTight]

I would assume all(or at least some of) those big WR should make for physical run blockers as well. A small part of what made the Bears run game so effective a few years back was Marshall and Jeffrey dominating cb's on the outside and taking them out of the play consistently.

 

 

You'd certainly hope. I'd think Lazard, Kumerow would. Adams and Allison have already shown they're pretty solid and willing blockers. MVS and St. Brown are pretty thin.

 

 

I do think it'll be more important than ever to get guys blocked at the 2nd level this year. The way Jenkins looks so far, I think he's gonna be a bulldozer at guard and once we get Jones back, the Packers might having a legit running game.

 

It certainly has done wonders for Brees the past few years.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Davis is a guy you're being a bit unfair IMO. Useless? He had a hamstring issue last year. He came back from it and then injured it again. He probably came back too soon and they brought him back off IR using the one "designated to return," slot they get. He played in all 16 games his second year and was a healthy scratch early in his rookie year as best as I can remember.

 

So to this point, he's been hurt last year with one injury that's cost him playing time. "Useless," is overstepping the mark. Especially if he's as improved as the Packers are suggesting. Though, it's impossible to know how much "the Packers really like this kid," from Harlan and Lofton is legit and how much is them asking about a guy in the prep and them saying "He's looked good all camp."

 

He seems to be pretty clearly the best return man we've got. He's had some really nice returns for the Packers(helped them salvage that Bengals OT game when he had that last 65-yard return the week he won special teams player of the week) Obviously, he hasn't caught many balls. I don't know how much of that is him not being open the times he's played on offense and how much of it is him not having attained BFF-blood pact status with Rodgers.

 

I thought he looked pretty good this year, but he'll have to do something these next two weeks or the Packers are going to go with the younger guy.

 

 

The three RB's seem pretty clearly set as Jones/Jamal Williams and Dexter Williams. And Jones is the only servicable return man in that group and they're not likely to take their top back and use him on returns. I guess Carson has looked like he could be that 3rd man given the mental mistakes Dexter Williams has made, but I really doubt it.

 

Shepard could win the job, but I think Davis is at least as likely. He needs to finish strong and has a couple of good games.

 

Theres no doubt that Davis is talented. But there's also the old adage that "you can't make the club in the tub", and that applies fully to him as well. There was some scuttle butt that they tried to deal him last year, but he was hurt (again). I think their patience for this guy is just about done. He just doesn't have the frame to stand up to the rigors and pounding a NFL WR and returner takes.

 

 

Ok, you're saying they couldn't trade him last year because he was hurt. -Again. He wasn't, that was the first injury that cost him playing time. Healthy his rookie year, healthy his second year, missed time last year with a hamstring injury. So I don't see why this first-year staff and his first-year coach who would be losing their patience with him or why you'd call him "useless." If you don't like him and you just don't think he should make the team, that's fine. But you're exaggerating the facts to support that case. And for the record, the injury he has now is a stinger. A fluke injury. that's as preventable as a concussion.

 

 

Do you think maybe that stinger was the reason Rodgers was so upset? One of the guys that both Rodgers and Bakhtiari have said could be the "breakout player" because he fits the system so well? So if he doesn't make the team, I really doubt it'll be because of any of the old cliches about "the best ability is...," or being in the "tub" after suffering a stinger during a joint practice that upset Rodgers enough that he publicly spoke out about it. It'll likely just be becuase the Packers liked the younger guys who would be cheaper in future years more than Davis.

 

Missed time his rookie year due to a shoulder injury. But last year was a lost year completely due to hamstring issues that started with OTAs and lasted all year. Yeah, he could come back and be a contributor this year. But I wouldn't bet on it.

[HiAndTight]

 

Missed time his rookie year due to a shoulder injury. But last year was a lost year completely due to hamstring issues that started with OTAs and lasted all year. Yeah, he could come back and be a contributor this year. But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

You might want to stop reaching too much or you're gonna end up with a shoulder injury. He "hurt" his shoulder in the final pre-season game, practiced the next week and was inactive.

 

 

And I'm not betting on anything. I'm disagreeing with your characterization that he's "useless," or that the coaches are growing impatient with him because of his injury history and inability to handle the "rigors" or returning kicks or being a WR'er.

 

Who exactly would they not be growing impatient of under these criteria?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Missed time his rookie year due to a shoulder injury. But last year was a lost year completely due to hamstring issues that started with OTAs and lasted all year. Yeah, he could come back and be a contributor this year. But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

You might want to stop reaching too much or you're gonna end up with a shoulder injury. He "hurt" his shoulder in the final pre-season game, practiced the next week and was inactive.

 

 

And I'm not betting on anything. I'm disagreeing with your characterization that he's "useless," or that the coaches are growing impatient with him because of his injury history and inability to handle the "rigors" or returning kicks or being a WR'er.

 

Who exactly would they not be growing impatient of under these criteria?

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Which is fine. Perhaps I'm just jaded by never really liking or understanding drafting Davis to begin with. I'm a proponent of WRs who are big and strong, or small, quick and shifty guys who can excel in the slot. I just don't think Davis is either of those.

[HiAndTight]

 

Missed time his rookie year due to a shoulder injury. But last year was a lost year completely due to hamstring issues that started with OTAs and lasted all year. Yeah, he could come back and be a contributor this year. But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

You might want to stop reaching too much or you're gonna end up with a shoulder injury. He "hurt" his shoulder in the final pre-season game, practiced the next week and was inactive.

 

 

And I'm not betting on anything. I'm disagreeing with your characterization that he's "useless," or that the coaches are growing impatient with him because of his injury history and inability to handle the "rigors" or returning kicks or being a WR'er.

 

Who exactly would they not be growing impatient of under these criteria?

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Which is fine. Perhaps I'm just jaded by never really liking or understanding drafting Davis to begin with. I'm a proponent of WRs who are big and strong, or small, quick and shifty guys who can excel in the slot. I just don't think Davis is either of those.

 

 

That's how I felt about J'mon Moore in the 4th round.

 

I'm not arguing that he's a great player. I think he's maybe 50/50 to make the team right now. And I agree, he's fast, but he's not shifty. Just not about how big of a concern injuries are with regard to him(and I guess about his value as a return man).

 

I do agree that I'd like a quicker, smoother route runner WR'er. I think the guy that most Packer fans now overlook during the Driver-Adams era is Greg Jennings. He was so smooth and could get open so quickly and he was good at running after the catch. We're lacking that type of WR'er and I think we have been since he left. It's not a pre-requisite to a good offense, but someone who can run such clean routes and make such sudden cuts can really help the QB get some quick completions. We've had more big, physical guys. Maybe MVS can end up doing both.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

 

That's how I felt about J'mon Moore in the 4th round.

 

I'm not arguing that he's a great player. I think he's maybe 50/50 to make the team right now. And I agree, he's fast, but he's not shifty. Just not about how big of a concern injuries are with regard to him(and I guess about his value as a return man).

 

I do agree that I'd like a quicker, smoother route runner WR'er. I think the guy that most Packer fans now overlook during the Driver-Adams era is Greg Jennings. He was so smooth and could get open so quickly and he was good at running after the catch. We're lacking that type of WR'er and I think we have been since he left. It's not a pre-requisite to a good offense, but someone who can run such clean routes and make such sudden cuts can really help the QB get some quick completions. We've had more big, physical guys. Maybe MVS can end up doing both.

 

Maybe Darius Shephard can be that type of guy? I know UDFA from a small school ... but he's getting tons of reps with the #1s, and seems like a very smooth, shifty athlete. They also seem to be shoehorning Kumerow into that role, even though he's much bigger than a typical slot/possession type. But he does run good routes and knows where to be.

 

Agree on Moore, though. He seems to be the least talented of those 3 they drafted last year, but had the reputation for being the most polished coming out. We haven't seen that.

[HiAndTight]

 

 

That's how I felt about J'mon Moore in the 4th round.

 

I'm not arguing that he's a great player. I think he's maybe 50/50 to make the team right now. And I agree, he's fast, but he's not shifty. Just not about how big of a concern injuries are with regard to him(and I guess about his value as a return man).

 

I do agree that I'd like a quicker, smoother route runner WR'er. I think the guy that most Packer fans now overlook during the Driver-Adams era is Greg Jennings. He was so smooth and could get open so quickly and he was good at running after the catch. We're lacking that type of WR'er and I think we have been since he left. It's not a pre-requisite to a good offense, but someone who can run such clean routes and make such sudden cuts can really help the QB get some quick completions. We've had more big, physical guys. Maybe MVS can end up doing both.

 

Maybe Darius Shephard can be that type of guy? I know UDFA from a small school ... but he's getting tons of reps with the #1s, and seems like a very smooth, shifty athlete. They also seem to be shoehorning Kumerow into that role, even though he's much bigger than a typical slot/possession type. But he does run good routes and knows where to be.

 

Agree on Moore, though. He seems to be the least talented of those 3 they drafted last year, but had the reputation for being the most polished coming out. We haven't seen that.

 

 

Maybe it's Shepard. Outside of Redding, we've heard good things about pretty much everyone. Even Malik Taylor.

 

 

I guess I don't even really understand what LeFleur's offense is at this point. Zone Blocking Scheme is like "West Coast offense" now in that there are so many iterations of it, it doesn't really have much meaning. It basically means that you run to a spot and then look for a hole.

In the passing game if he is going to run as many bunch formations as he's been running, that gets guys open and they don't have to be elite off the LOS like Jennings was. We're kinda picturing the prototypical slot guy. With an X and a Y, but that bunch formation can get guys open with simple spacing routes.

 

I am curious as to how much consideration they put into the fact that Shepard, for example, would be under team control for 4 years vs Davis being a FA after this year? Obviously, it's not like baseball, but if it's a coin flip, you'd have to think they'd rather have the guy who's more likely to be there for the following 3 years cheap.

 

Anyway, Shepard's the only guy I've seen that is more of a slot in the traditional McCarthy offenses. And he could return kicks. I know he ran a slow 40 time...or a relatively slow time, but he looks real quick.

 

 

 

Also, slightly off-topic, did anyone watch Hard Knocks last night? They had a picture of Hunter Renfroe shirtless. Lets just say CoolhandLuke would lose his mind. He looked like a 40-year-old father. ZERO muscle...he looked like a thinner version of the "dad bod" thing going around for a while. But he was a helluva slot type WR'er at Clemson and he looked really good with the pads on.

[Jopal78]

Does anyone know if BobMcginnfootball.com; is going to be back for the 2020 season?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Does anyone know if BobMcginnfootball.com; is going to be back for the 2020 season?

 

He didn't announce that it was coming back last year until after cut-downs I believe. Pretty much radio silence until then.

 

I too hope it comes back. Good stuff ... although he does tend to get a little preachy at times.

[HiAndTight]

Does anyone know if BobMcginnfootball.com; is going to be back for the 2020 season?

 

He didn't announce that it was coming back last year until after cut-downs I believe. Pretty much radio silence until then.

 

I too hope it comes back. Good stuff ... although he does tend to get a little preachy at times.

 

 

Yeah, I liked when he'd talk to actual experts. I couldn't stand when he'd try to play expert.

 

But I found the articles when he'd talk to 20 scouts or executives to be pretty interesting and informative. Moreso on the players from the other teams in the division as we all know the Packers players.

 

 

My lasting memory of McGinn will be how he said the Packers were a 10-6 team without Aaron Rodgers because Ted Thompson had done such a great job of building up this roster....and almost immediately after that he got hurt, the Packers were NOT a 10 win team without Rodgers and then McGinn went after Thompson pretty hard for a while.

 

 

But I do miss the player rankings, the tiers in each division...all those things.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

McGinn just announced via Twitter that he will be back writing about the Packers and the Draft this year. No other details. Says we'll find out Monday.

 

Wonder if we're getting a "Why I'm joining the Athletic" post?

[adambr2]

This is such an embarrassment for the NFL. You knew you were going to play a game on a CFL field and you didn't verify ahead of time how you were deal with it to create appropriate field conditions?

[homer]

This is such an embarrassment for the NFL. You knew you were going to play a game on a CFL field and you didn't verify ahead of time how you were deal with it to create appropriate field conditions?

 

That was my thought....how was this not identified a week, a month, six months ago?

[RollieTime]

That roughing the passer on Boyle was uhh... soft? The guy didn’t pick him up, didn’t hit him in the head, and made contact very quickly after the throw.

[yourout]

80 Yards of chewed up field turf and it's still a better playing surface than Soldiers Field.

[wildcat83]

This is such an embarrassment for the NFL. You knew you were going to play a game on a CFL field and you didn't verify ahead of time how you were deal with it to create appropriate field conditions?

 

That was my thought....how was this not identified a week, a month, six months ago?

 

Yep, didn’t this same type of thing happen in a game supposed to be played down in Mexico? Think that was a regular season game. How this is not noticed or addressed ahead of time is ridiculous. I’m really skeptical about Rodgers in a new offense with zero preseason reps walking into Soldier Field and that defense week 1. Just can’t simulate game speed in practice.

 

Proved to be a good call not to play him as Boyle slips second play and gets plastered because of it.

[wildcat83]

That roughing the passer on Boyle was uhh... soft? The guy didn’t pick him up, didn’t hit him in the head, and made contact very quickly after the throw.

 

It was definitely helmet to helmet. Wasn’t malicious or even the defenders fault really, mostly caused by Boyle’s slip, but they hit head to head.

[yourout]

There's got to be somebody out there that we could have for a backup that's better than what they have now

[yourout]

If you want to make the team you better not stop on another route Lazard.

[yourout]

Granted these are not many starters but the more I see the less impressed I get.

My gut says this is going to be a long year.

[nodakfan17]

This is such an embarrassment for the NFL. You knew you were going to play a game on a CFL field and you didn't verify ahead of time how you were deal with it to create appropriate field conditions?

 

That was my thought....how was this not identified a week, a month, six months ago?

 

I’m sure it was on their radar, but they assumed it would be an easy fix. That doesn’t make it any less embarrassing, but give them a little credit. I like games in unique locations, but maybe they need to stick to NFL and major college stadiums.

[nodakfan17]

Granted these are not many starters but the more I see the less impressed I get.

My gut says this is going to be a long year.

I wouldn’t infer anything from this game.