2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread

[FVBrewerFan]

It definitely sounds like MLF wasn't thrilled with the effort given in the NFCCG.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-matt-la-fleur-question-the-packers-effort-in-nfc-championship-game-165359777.html

How else could you explain giving up almost 300 yards rushing, 220 to a journeyman on his seventh team in five years, well over half of those before contact? The rushing defense Sunday was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen on a football field. Where was their pride? Where was their manhood? Lack of effort is all it could be. Even Mike Pettine's game plan wouldn't explain away that abortion of a performance.

 

And let's not forget Rodgers not making any effort to recover a fumbled snap. That was worse than Newton in the Super Bowl. At least Newton took a step or two toward the ball.

 

You could explain it by showing how LBs and Safeties were out of position and/or took horrible angles getting to the ball. Also this "journeyman" narrative that keeps coming up is irrelevant. He's a good RB regardless if he was #1 overall pick or an undrafted FA.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

And let's not forget Rodgers not making any effort to recover a fumbled snap. That was worse than Newton in the Super Bowl. At least Newton took a step or two toward the ball.

 

Pump the brakes Cowherd. This play getting any traction is a reach-o-rama. Funny that nobody mentioned it until two or three days later.

 

Rodgers wasn't getting that ball. And no, it's not worse than Cam Newton, but I also thought that play was something of nothing as well.

 

Ripping Rodgers gets viewers. Nobody is talking about that play with anyone else.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm fine with Pettine getting another year, for continuity if nothing else; though I was fine if they let him go too. I think sometimes there is some value in continuity when you have a new staff, as you have build a defense that favors Pettine's system, and you want to continue to use the players identified as fitting in that scheme that you've build up over the past two years.

 

Knowing that resources this offseason need to be devoted to the offense, I'm not surprised they're keeping things similar on defense. But I think the leash should be pretty short from here. There has been a lot of improvement with a lot of investment in that side of the ball, and now the coaching needs to create improved results with that investment.

[PeaveyFury]

Per PFF's defensive rankings:

8th Overall

4th Pass-rushing

7th Coverage

25th Run Defense

 

You really do wonder if the run defense would be ranked higher if they had people better than Lowry, Lancaster, and Martinez as your primary run stoppers.

[Jenkins5]

The fumble argument is one of the dumbest knocks I’ve heard around Twitter and such. Just uneducated football take. ARod’s momentum is going back. The awful snap barely hit his hands & went forward (not backwards) towards and past line of scrimmage. He would have had to fully stop his momentum on a dime dove through a moving Centers legs, crawled a little bit, and wrestle it was from a 300 pound lineman. Be different if ball was fumbled backwards or straight down but it wasn’t. Instead of wasting time made at ARod, why do all these people give Cory a free pass for having one of his worst snaps of his career. It was flat out awful. Just people wanting to get on ARod and blame him for something. His interception was ugly, I’d focus on that over a fumble he really wasn’t going to get nor any QB would. People act like it was bouncing by his feet and he just decided to ignore it.

 

I’m fine with Pettine coming back. He still needs a few more pieces though for sure! Our Front 7 is the Smith Bro’s & Clark. Lowry has moments, Martinez will clean up 4+ yards down field but we will not be good against run until we get another stud to add next to Clark & a downhill run stuffing backer. Martinez would thrive in a 3-4 as the Will with a mean & nasty Sam who plunges while he scraps. Sadly, we both don’t have a strong physical linebacker to pair with him nor do we run much base with two real linebackers in the middle. Even we do, he is pair with a Burks or someone else who is even worse than he is at plugging downhill. Martinez just is not strong or explosive enough to plug holes. He is a read & scrap guy.

 

FA will be so important this year. Sadly the ILB class is bad Littleton is a cover backer who pff ranked 103 of 126 against the run for backers. Schobert I think is better even he graded out iffy vs run. There are some good options at WR that we could get to take pressure off needing a WR in round 1. Such a loaded class, you can still get a good one in 2-3. However, if you don’t get Anderson, Green, Cooper, you need one of those high end studs.

 

 

My take

WR

I want Anderson. With awful offense and QB play his whole career, he has found ways to consistently make big plays downfield. Plus he has the size Gute likes. Green would be nice but guy is never on field. Cooper is too expensive. Cobb could come back if cheap enough. Still better than what we have. No matter what Gute needs to make splash in FA and draft to revamp awful core we currently have outside of Adams.

 

DE

Packers want an elite Defense.... you start by going out & dropping whatever is need to get Chris Jones at DE. It’s completely unlikely but I honestly don’t think he is far off of Donald. The attention he will receive just frees the Smith’s even more. Jones Clark Lowry with the Smith Boys on the outside is something no offensive line wants to deal with. For much cheaper get Leonard Williams who people really have written because he didn’t become the star he was suppose to but he is still a very solid 3-4 DE who can be good with Clark inside in Nickel and dime. Shelby Harris the Wisconsin boy who sadly was kicked out at UW for stealing video game systems with WR Appleton is a solid rotation piece to consider. Never been workhorse but has graded very well in his role. Could be good value add.

 

* Like Wilkerson, I take a chance on Williams. He flashed early in career and is only going to be 26. Jets haven’t been the model of getting most out of talent. Giants trade made zero sense and since college he had been a 3-4 end.

 

ILB

At inside backer. Martinez & his price will not make sense. Sadly, he may be best vs the run in FA class which just points to how bad class is. In the draft, Simmons will be long gone but Murray is the pissed off mean LB you’d like vs the run. He is a late first round option. Patrick Queen is a guy I’d love to have in 2nd. More complete backer than Murray but not as nasty. OSUs Malik Harrison is closer to Murray as a run first backer who needs to continue to grow in coverage. Logan Wilson of Wyoming is a guy I really like, hopefully 3rd or 4th round option. Overall, inside backers are not outstanding in this class.

 

TE

Hunter Henry not healthy often but when he is, he is a stud. Ebron broke out with Luck but Briskett did not help him repeat stellar season. Austin Hooper is underrated TE but could be a great add. As off now TE draft class is iffy & has awhile to be more defined. Rankings and reports are all over the place. Not a 1st round talent imo but solid option later on.

[MrTPlush]

The fumbled happened, went forward, and the 49ers guy jumped on it pretty fast. So fast it wasn’t even a fight for the ball for anyone. I’m not sure who’s fault that botched snap was, but Rodgers has no chance to get it because the guard was pulling. So Rodgers had to scramble back after getting the snap so the guard could get between him and the center. Problem is once the snap was fumbled that meant a 300 pound lineman was in front of him, so no, he couldn’t even dive between the centers legs for it.

 

The other problem is when Rodgers looked back for the ball it was already long gone. You could see him searching for it. It’s hard to make an effort for a ball when you have no idea where it is. If you are expecting our franchise QB to jump under 300 pound lineman like a ball pit to get trampled...well, good luck. It seemed apparent he was playing it like a typical botched snap where lineman are kicking it around like a pin ball machine. Unfortunately, it flipped right to a 49er.

[pacopete4]

Going after Rodgers for that fumble is just silly. There has been plenty in his game to discuss but that isn't one of them.

[JosephC]

Per PFF's defensive rankings:

8th Overall

4th Pass-rushing

7th Coverage

25th Run Defense

 

You really do wonder if the run defense would be ranked higher if they had people better than Lowry, Lancaster, and Martinez as your primary run stoppers.

 

Deceptive numbers IMO. Packers had some good pass-rushing statistics, but the defense still ranked 20th in yards allowed per pass play against. Not very good. They were 24h in the league in yards allowed per run play against. Sacks and turnovers can make a big difference in the regular season, but it's hard to rely on turnovers and sacks against playoff teams that generally will have better quarterbacks and offensive linemen.

 

Also think it's really unfair to put the run defense problems Lowry, Lancaster and Martinez. Za'Darius Smith is not a good player against the run. He loves to gamble and jump into the wrong gap. He also is a hustler when going after the QB but is definitely not a hustler when it comes to chasing a running back downfield. Frankly, I thought the biggest problem the Packers had on Sunday was that the Smith's got smacked around early and looked like they pretty much gave up (wouldn't be a bit surprised if LaFleur's comments were aimed directly at those two guys). It also doesn't help that the Packers still haven't found a decent linebacker to pair with Martinez. B.J. Goodson played 39 snaps this past weekend, but he clearly is not one of their better players. Goodson hit 40 snaps in the Oakland game. But in the 9 games he played in between the Oakland game and this last weekend's game, he only played an average of 11 defensive snaps per game. Shanahan must have been licking his chops when looking at the film leading up to this game. He knew he was facing a defense that has been 100% built to stop the pass and he had the players to just completely pummel the defense. And did he ever. Halfway through the second quarter I couldn't help but think that this looked like a Wisconsin versus Weber State game.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

All defensive numbers are deceptive and it can be for better or worse. If the 49ers throw 7 passes that's going to be generous to your "passing defense." There are too many variables that go into a matchup to really see how good a unit is based on yardage. You can see this essentially every week. Rodgers had 326 yards on Sunday and I'd hardly say he was slicing and dicing their secondary.

 

Clearly the Packers are vulnerable up the middle, but turnovers and points allowed are really what matters in the end. It's really, to me, more valuable to just go on eye test for the rest of it. You can tell by watching a defense what they do well. They've done a nice job shoring up the secondary and they can get to the QB. That's a hard problem to solve, imo much harder than fixing a rush defense, which Kansas City did in one season - former Packer Mike Pennel has been a big reason why.

 

They have their work cut out for them. The middle of the defense is a sieve. I genuinely feel like they are one great player or maybe two good ones from having a really good defense.

[adambr2]

I think the idea is that you don't want to create a hole on a team in hoping that the rookie you take out of North Dakota State or wherever can adjust to kicking in the NFL/at Lambeau in the winter, when you know that Crosby is fine.

 

I like the performance value relative to their cap number that a solid rookie contract K can provide, especially when you're really trying to address other needs, but I understand that it doesn't always work out. I'm sure the Bucs remember the Roberto Aguayo saga well. Matt Gay was ok, not great as a rookie this season.

 

I don't think it's a very strong rookie class of kickers in 2020. I think the guy from Georgia is at the top and there isn't much else.

 

That's the issue ... why create a hole for the sake of creating a hole? Why add another unknown to a team that already is likely to have several going into next season? Crosby seemingly wants to come back, isn't going to break the bank, and provides consistency. You're right ... they will need to eventually replace Crosby, and will likely do it with a young minimum-wage guy. But you don't do it following the best season of the guy's long, and actually pretty dang good career.

 

I've been on the "it doesn't pay to pay a kicker" bandwagon for awhile, but it does feel like the last few years that the rookie/undrafted kicker pool has gotten less and less reliable. It seemed like 3 or 4 years ago you could grab any rookie and get 80-85% but more and more of these guys seem to be flaming out.

 

I'm not interested in carrying a 5M+ cap number for any kicker not named Justin Tucker, but I'd be fine going like 2/6. That seems fair for both sides.

 

Loyalty is a 2 way street, and I hope Crosby remembers that many teams would have cut bait with him after 2012, and there's no telling whether or not he would have ever gotten a chance to get his career on track again. Instead, he's made $25M since then.

[adambr2]

Per PFF's defensive rankings:

8th Overall

4th Pass-rushing

7th Coverage

25th Run Defense

 

You really do wonder if the run defense would be ranked higher if they had people better than Lowry, Lancaster, and Martinez as your primary run stoppers.

 

What does Dean Lowry do well that made Gute decide he was worth a 3 year/20+M extension? I'm honestly just wondering. It feels like the Brad Jones and AJ Hawk extensions from years past - "well, these guys aren't good, but they're our guys and they fill a hole, so..here's some money."

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I've never liked Dean Lowry, but he was 24 and had gotten better each year in the league. It wasn't crazy money by NFL standards for an ascending DL. It seemed like a Ted Thompson move where you retain your own guy just for the sake doing it. I can see why he did it though, if he continued developing at the pace he was, those were bargain years.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Lowry won't ever be a star, but he is durable, strong and assignment-sure. That makes him dependable, which does bring a strong value in the NFL. You need guys like that. Where the D-Line lacks is expecting a guy like Lancaster, who is a very poor man's version of Lowry, to start on the other side. Lancaster is very much just a guy, maybe even a bit below that. He just doesn't have the athleticism to match up. Lowry's is marginal as it is. This team needed Montravius Adams to step up, and he didn't. Adams has the kind of athleticism that is very much needed, but got washed out a lot in his sporadic playing time. Both he and Keke need to improve. It wouldn't surprise me to see a high pick or free agent DL acquired as well.

[OldHeidelberg]

Lowry had some good games down the stretch, that's sort of what you get with average DL's, spurts of good play and other stretches where you wonder if they were even in the game. Adams was sure a disappointment after the good finish in 18 and Pettine hyping him in the offseason. But he was a boom or bust type pick and I think his effort was always the question. Maybe we can get a quality year out of him now that he is playing for another contract.

[PeaveyFury]

I think DE is a very likely spot to see them add a body this year. I'd love another Wilkerson-type 'prove-it' deal for a guy if they choose to devote their big FA money/draft picks elsewhere.

[adambr2]

As a whole I'm not disappointed with the defense this year, but I'm really concerned about how outcoached Mike Pettine was in the NFCCG. Pettine was absolutely pantsed by Shanahan. It's concerning to get outcoached to the level he did in that high profile of a game and what it means going forward with him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think it's insignificant that pretty much all of SF's staff has worked with MLF. That's a long time to learn a guy's tendencies.

[adambr2]

https://sports.yahoo.com/za-darius-smith-didn-t-202111112.html

 

#1, if you simply got your ass kicked, just say so. Anything else comes off like an excuse if you simply got overmatched.

 

#2, if this is actually true and you simply didn't show up ready to play, this is unacceptable on an unfathomable level. YOU ARE LITERALLY PLAYING A QUALIFYING GAME FOR THE SUPER BOWL. It is the pinnacle of your very profession. On top of that, YOU LITERALLY TOLD ANYONE WHO WOULD LISTEN THAT IF YOU PLAYED THE 49ERS AGAIN YOU WOULD BE READY.

 

I'm just blown away that one of the leaders of the defense can come out and say not only was the team not ready for this game, but he individually was not ready for it. The Charger game was your one mulligan to say "We didn't show up today" and get to shrug it off and say it happens. Not the mother loving NFC championship game.

 

Is the leadership and individual accountability on this team really this bad? What kind of incentive exactly do these 53 men need to go and lay it all out on the field for 3 hours in the biggest game of their lives?

[homer]

That doesn't really bother me at all.

[adambr2]

That doesn't really bother me at all.

 

Maybe I am not interpreting the context of his words correctly. It bothers me a lot that this team went out to California to play a football game three times this year and each of the three times they did not remotely resemble a professional football team. But this one certainly most of all.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

"We weren't ready to play" always struck me as page 5 in the canned response quote book. It's something you say when you know you sucked and can't explain why. Or you know the answer is "they're much better" and want to say something else.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

MLF apparently fired the WRs coach last week.