Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?

[Thurston Fluff]

i wish we would have kept Dubon and was fine with everyone else. I don't even mind trading Dubon because I don't think he's a ft for the bench role and he doesn't really have a place as a starter. He the wrong fit this team at this time. I Just think we should have traded him in the winter for a better fit going forward.

[adambr2]

They didn't "cash in" on Dubon. They got 2 guys with almost literally no surplus value. It's hard to believe he wouldn't be more valuable to us as a cost-controlled utility infielder for the next 6 years than what we got, even if he didn't hit enough to start.

 

The industry must view Dubon as more of a Nick Franklin than a Hernan Perez for him to return this little.

[MrTPlush]

They didn't "cash in" on Dubon. They got 2 guys with almost literally no surplus value. It's hard to believe he wouldn't be more valuable to us as a cost-controlled utility infielder for the next 6 years than what we got, even if he didn't hit enough to start.

 

The industry must view Dubon as more of a Nick Franklin than a Hernan Perez for him to return this little.

 

I guess I am a bit surprised they wouldn’t roll the dice on Dubon when Arcia has sucked for years and they don’t seem to be fond of him anymore. Sure these pitchers may have some “interesting” features or promise...but hardly more than Dubon.

 

I guess I don’t get the excitement for those pitchers. We can find similar value/potential pitchers on the scrap heap 365 days a year.

[Oxy]

Black has a strange profile. It sounds like he could become a major contributor in the pen. Dubon had almost no upside, and is easily replaced with Perez or Spangenberg or any number of guys. The only thing he had going for him was a couple of options. We'll see what happens.

[adambr2]

Black has a strange profile. It sounds like he could become a major contributor in the pen. Dubon had almost no upside, and is easily replaced with Perez or Spangenberg or any number of guys. The only thing he had going for him was a couple of options. We'll see what happens.

 

Other than his K/9, Black's Minor League numbers are nothing special, never have been and he's almost 30.

 

There are guys like this that you hear about taking a flyer on all the time. Maybe not with the K/9 numbers he has, but there's a reason he's 29 and still hasn't really gotten a shot in one of the better organizations in baseball for pitcher development.

 

I believe that Stearns fell in love with him and had to have him, but beyond that, I'll believe it when I see it that a guy at his age and minor league numbers is just going to suddenly morph into a late inning stud reliever at the MLB level.

 

Obviously they don't even think he can be a contributor right now much less a late inning guy, or he'd be here, because he's certainly not being blocked. I'd say the odds of him being a major late inning guy are probably somewhat less than him not even making the team out of spring training next year and being gone just that quickly.

[folly412]

My issue is mostly the lack of committing to a direction. Was very Melvin-esque in that regard: a "buy" being to acquire Tony Graffanino to signal a move to the fans that the team is crying, and a "sell" demanding "major-league ready" talent, which usually means ready to sit the major league bench. And these moves almost had a little of each within them which made them ever more strange.

 

I was fine with selling, and wouldn't have complained about getting low-minors potential for All-Stars on expiring contracts - it was a clear direction. I was also fine with buying, and wasn't being silly by demanding Greinke or Syndergaard - the prices for many relievers weren't what we gave up for Pomeranz and Black, and many starters wouldn't have bankrupted our already meager farm.

 

I like Faria's potential, though it is trademark of the confusion to me: if you're improving this year's team, he doesn't go to AAA. If you're selling for prospects, I'd rather have an A+ arm with some upside. The Dubon trade I don't understand - Pomeranz is similar to the relievers every contending team acquired for next to nothing, but has less of a track record as a reliever. Black has upside, but without options next year the risk is enormous; it's probably a coin flip that he gets DFA'd before the year is out, if he even manages to stay healthy.

[rickh150]

Black has a strange profile. It sounds like he could become a major contributor in the pen. Dubon had almost no upside, and is easily replaced with Perez or Spangenberg or any number of guys. The only thing he had going for him was a couple of options. We'll see what happens.

 

Other than his K/9, Black's Minor League numbers are nothing special, never have been and he's almost 30.

 

There are guys like this that you hear about taking a flyer on all the time. Maybe not with the K/9 numbers he has, but there's a reason he's 29 and still hasn't really gotten a shot in one of the better organizations in baseball for pitcher development.

 

I believe that Stearns fell in love with him and had to have him, but beyond that, I'll believe it when I see it that a guy at his age and minor league numbers is just going to suddenly morph into a late inning stud reliever at the MLB level.

 

Obviously they don't even think he can be a contributor right now much less a late inning guy, or he'd be here, because he's certainly not being blocked. I'd say the odds of him being a major late inning guy are probably somewhat less than him not even making the team out of spring training next year and being gone just that quickly.

 

I heard Black has no options beginning next year...

[Eye Black]

It seems like the moves made at the deadline were much more with 2020 in mind than 2019. I’m fine with that, but as others have mentioned I just wish they would have gone in with both feet and reset the roster by getting value for the upcoming free agents and inserting players they want to evaluate/audition for their potential role next season.

 

I agree that it’s tough to make an argument that the Brewers “cashed in” on Mauricio Dubon when it appears they pretty clearly lost value on that deal. I do believe they could have gotten something more valuable in exchange for Dubon this off-season.

 

Ultimately the Brewers are going to have to strike gold on finding a couple of solid starters this off-season as well as probably hitting on acquiring another impact bat.

[Brewcrewin07]

I just couldn't understand the lack of getting at least one more back end of the rotation type(like Roark). Oakland didn't give up much to acquire him. All i know is I hope like hell, they get smart and buy some pitching next year in FA, and trade Zach Davies. Want him nowhere near this staff next year.

[Oxy]

Black will make the team out of SP, purely because Stearns traded for him. He'll have to fail at the MLB level before being DFA'd. Unfortunately, the 13th man in the pen is rarely an actual MLB quality pitcher anyway...

[wntrtxn21]

3. Huge overlook by media....Faria and Ray are out of options next year! Hader, Jeffress, Knebel, Wahl, Claudio, Faria, Ray... who is going to be optioned back and forth next year? Troublesome. This doesn't help next year's group's depth much (as is) because of lack of some guy's optioning and the risk of losing them!

assuming none are optioned for more than 20 days in 2019, josh hader and bobby wahl will each enter 2020 spring training with two minor league options and alex claudio with one.

 

They will never option Hader. I believe they re-sign Pomeranz as a lefty in the pen next year and say adios to Claudio. Wahl is iffy even assuming he's on the opening day roster. As horrendous as Jeffress has been and given he will be owed $4.3M next year, I doubt they keep him too. They almost have to keep Faria and Ray or lose them for little or nothing. Many internal options for the pen next year if Knebel comes back as good as ever. Starters are a totally different story.

[jerichoholicninja]

Outside of Moose and Grandal who was there realistically to sell? Two month rentals bring back next to nothing these days. They might as well have held on to those guys and hope August and September fall in their favor. I mean weren't they a game out of a wild card on July 31? This team looks mediocre on the field but I don't know how you can give up on a season when you're one game out of the playoffs.

[rickh150]

The rotation is quietly becoming the strength of the team.

 

Cashing in Dubon now was a smart move. He won't hit enough.

 

Last year, the team did poorly at the deadline. This year we did well.

 

1. The rotation is the root of all our problems.

2. No cashing in from Dubon trade..... scraps instead

3. What was the team's record in September?

Outhustled.

[Never Outhustled]

The rotation is quietly becoming the strength of the team.

 

Cashing in Dubon now was a smart move. He won't hit enough.

 

Last year, the team did poorly at the deadline. This year we did well.

 

1. The rotation is the root of all our problems.

2. No cashing in from Dubon trade..... scraps instead

3. What was the team's record in September?

Outhustled.

 

1. Even with Woodruff out, we have 3 starters with sub 4 ERAs plus a fast developing Hauser, and Lyles. Lyles looks back on track after fixing his pitch tipping.

 

2. Dubon was a scrap. We got 2 scraps for him. Black has the look of the very common late developing late inning reliever.

 

3. The team took off in September because of Yelich, not because of Schoop. It could happen again.

 

4. The Aguilar trade opened the door to bring up Grisham, a potential superstar.

[rickh150]

The rotation is quietly becoming the strength of the team.

 

Cashing in Dubon now was a smart move. He won't hit enough.

 

Last year, the team did poorly at the deadline. This year we did well.

 

1. The rotation is the root of all our problems.

2. No cashing in from Dubon trade..... scraps instead

3. What was the team's record in September?

Outhustled.

 

1. Even with Woodruff out, we have 3 starters with sub 4 ERAs plus a fast developing Hauser, and Lyles. Lyles looks back on track after fixing his pitch tipping.

 

2. Dubon was a scrap. We got 2 scraps for him. Black has the look of the very common late developing late inning reliever.

 

3. The team took off in September because of Yelich, not because of Schoop. It could happen again.

 

4. The Aguilar trade opened the door to bring up Grisham, a potential superstar.

 

3. No, no... The deadlineS brought on a host of help from Granderson, Soria, Moose, Cedeno...

[timpep]

I don't think you can say we did well at the deadline this year and poorly at the deadline last year without trolling.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Extremely small sample so far, but both Lyles and Pomeranz have been fine. I wish they would have done more, obviously, but the guys they did grab have been alright. If anything, the performance lately has proven than they were more than a couple pieces away from being a contender.

[Pugger]

The Brewers correctly identified that this wasn't the year to trade what little they had left of assets to chase a playoff spot when the team has 4-5 holes. They were close enough not to want to sell, though some of us suspected they should have. They instead chose to try to fill those holes to a point, while knowing that they didn't have the ammo to go all-in this year. I'm fine with what they did. If anything, I wish they had sold.

 

This. All day long.

[Thurston Fluff]

Outside of Moose and Grandal who was there realistically to sell? Two month rentals bring back next to nothing these days. They might as well have held on to those guys and hope August and September fall in their favor. I mean weren't they a game out of a wild card on July 31? This team looks mediocre on the field but I don't know how you can give up on a season when you're one game out of the playoffs.

 

This. They did a balancing act because it is silly to give up on a season when the team is in the thick of it and is equally silly to give up the future on a team that is only in it because the rest of the division is as average as we are. Keep what you got, make a few fringe moves that doesn't hurt your future, and see what happens.

[JosephC]

Nice bit of GM speak by Stearns.

 

"Black’s got as good a stuff as any reliever in the game."

 

Hey David, since the Brewer's bullpen is terrible, why do we have a TWENTY-NINE YEAR OLD reliever with "as good a stuff as any reliever" in AAA and Aaron Wilkerson is on the 25-man roster?

 

I can only think of two explanations for this. Either the Brewers are just plain stupid, or David Stearns really doesn't think that Black is that good. At least not as good as Aaron Wilkerson.

[Jopal78]

Nice bit of GM speak by Stearns.

 

"Black’s got as good a stuff as any reliever in the game."

 

Hey David, since the Brewer's bullpen is terrible, why do with have a TWENTY-NINE YEAR OLD reliever with "as good a stuff as any reliever" in AAA and Aaron Wilkerson is on the 25-man roster?

 

I can only think of two explanations for this. Either the Brewers are just plain stupid, or David Stearns really doesn't think that Black is that good. At least not as good as Aaron Wilkerson.

 

I think if you read all the quotes from Stearns, he believes they can work with Black to cut down the walks (118 as a professional against 187 innings) as well as the home runs allowed. Unless they're totally punting on 2019, I would expect they will do that in the minor leagues and call him up either when he shows improvement, or in September when rosters expand.

[MrTPlush]

I think they view Black as a project. His inclusion in the deal was likely so we weren't trading Dubon for a rental. Gives us something for Dubon long-term.

[adambr2]

I think they view Black as a project. His inclusion in the deal was likely so we weren't trading Dubon for a rental. Gives us something for Dubon long-term.

 

He has no options going into 2020. So if he doesn't make the opening day roster, there's no long-term.

 

Hard to carry a project on the 25 man all year if you're expecting to contend.

[pacopete4]

Reminder that next year is a 26 man roster.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think they view Black as a project. His inclusion in the deal was likely so we weren't trading Dubon for a rental. Gives us something for Dubon long-term.

 

He has no options going into 2020. So if he doesn't make the opening day roster, there's no long-term.

 

Hard to carry a project on the 25 man all year if you're expecting to contend.

 

I would certainly hope that they see something in Black that tells them that he'll be a surefire member of the pen next year, because if they don't, I'm not sure what they're doing.