Dubon to SF for Pomeranz and Black

[TJseven7]

So we dealt a SS who is in AAA at 24.

He isn't producing at the same level as Perez, Spangenberg or Saladino.

He projects as a cheap filler depth infielder.

 

For that we got a good reliever and a lottery ticket arm who is on the verge of the majors while still being a lottery ticket.

 

Team added 4 arms. 2 controlled and one of them that we actually can trust in the pen immediately. They gave up nothing that will make an impact.

 

All 4 look like pen arms so Houser might be in the rotation to stay. The get is underwhelming but these aren't bad deals.

[tmwiese55]

Moving back to Aug 15 is so late there isn't many games left. I think this is a good date to have it set.

 

A tweak that pops in my head is to adjust the expanded roster to August though. I know they're changing all that stuff more next year. So maybe like you get one more roster spot now and then however many extra they're going to allow come Sept. An unintended effect of this change is that you can't grab depth and bench bats due to roster spots issues. Take your Granderson type trade last year, you can't do that now since you won't have a roster spot for him. Or other smaller bullpen moves, you can't grab guys because you don't have roster spots for them. Heck, or maybe that was an intended consequence, who knows.

[HarveysWBs]

So we dealt a SS who is in AAA at 24.

He isn't producing at the same level as Perez, Spangenberg or Saladino.

He projects as a cheap filler depth infielder.

 

For that we got a good reliever and a lottery ticket arm who is on the verge of the majors while still being a lottery ticket.

 

Team added 4 arms. 2 controlled and one of them that we actually can trust in the pen immediately. They gave up nothing that will make an impact.

 

All 4 look like pen arms so Houser might be in the rotation to stay. The get is underwhelming but these aren't bad deals.

 

The organizational ethos is depth and versatility. Injury and ineffectiveness have obliterated those qualities this year, and these trades can help get back to neutral on those fronts. I’d say a team that has performed as middlingly as the Brewers deserves nothing more or less than that. It’s up to the guys on the roster to do their jobs, and they’ll be competitive.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Harvey'sWBs

[Greenleaf1]

I don't think the lack of waiver trades is the only thing that led to this kinda boring deadline. It's more a problem that so many teams are still close to the Wild Card, combined with who those teams are. The Giants and Mets both seem kinda stupidly run, only willing to buy and never willing to really truly sell. Hell, even the Reds made a big trade for an SP.

 

Maybe a later trade deadline would help, but teams aren't going to pay much for a 6 week rental unless it's a superstar player.

 

The waiver trade deadline, if anything, helps keep teams focused on the bigger additions on July 31st. They can then use August to make the smaller tweaks needed for a playoff run. Today feels like we mostly just got a lot of August-type trades because they can't make them until August. I do wonder if having the August 31st deadline still intact would've led to GMs having more focus on big trades today.

[Bulldogboy]

Wow Astros get Greinke and Sanchez for 7 prospects. What would it be like to have that kind of farm depth to deal from? This is a scary time to be a brewers fan. They have very little on the horizon and the team on the field doesn't look great especially if Moose and Grandal leave.

[JimH5]

I keep seeing how Dubon is an upgrade to Arcia. That's just not reality. People read WAY too much into AAA numbers, which are highly inflated this year on top of it. Dubon is OPSing .809, nice. Except Nate Orf is .802. Saladino was .943, we see how that's turning out. Spangenberg is at .900. Oh, and remember Travis Shaw recently raking down there.

 

Point is, .800 in San Antonio this year is nothing special at all. Dubon does not walk. Very limited power. As dissapointing as Arcia has been, Dubon can't touch his OPS with batting avg alone. And he's not going to hit .300 either. Dubon is Sardinas, Rivera, and the long list of middle IF we have seen before. He will struggle to stay on a roster as a utility guy. I get Arcia isn't much better, but he is better. And I still believe he can become a .750- .770ish hitter.

 

Agreed on Dubon. He has shown nothing special and is already 25. Maybe he makes it as a minimum salary utility guy.

 

Why do you believe Arcia can be a .750-.770 hitter? He's only reached that level in 4 months out of 18 in his career, and 2 out of the most recent 10.

[djoctagone]

a player will need to be bumped off the 40-man to make room for one of these two acquisitions.

 

ray black is currently optioned, and will burn his final option this year.

 

drew pomeranz is out of minor league options.

it's been reported that black will be optioned by the brewers.

 

a player still needs to be removed from the 40-man, and it likely will be via designating a pitcher for assignment.

 

if the brewers dfa a pitcher on the active roster, they're essentially playing with a 24-man roster tonight. if they dfa an optioned player, that player is off-limits to a minor league affiliate.

 

aaron wilkerson is the scheduled starter tonight for the missions. trey supak and donnie hart are probably safe. jacob barnes or burch smith, probably not as safe.

[HarveysWBs]

Wow Astros get Greinke and Sanchez for 7 prospects. What would it be like to have that kind of farm depth to deal from? This is a scary time to be a brewers fan. They have very little on the horizon and the team on the field doesn't look great especially if Moose and Grandal leave.

 

If you want what the Astros have, then be ready to lose 100+ for three seasons or more. That’s the price. Me though, I’ve seen enough bad baseball in Milwaukee to last a while. I don’t mind the window staying open for a while longer, even if it’s only half open.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Wow Astros get Greinke and Sanchez for 7 prospects. What would it be like to have that kind of farm depth to deal from? This is a scary time to be a brewers fan. They have very little on the horizon and the team on the field doesn't look great especially if Moose and Grandal leave.

 

I don't know about that. That rightfielder seems pretty decent, and they have a young 2B who is hitting OK.

 

Honestly, this is a team that has a legit super-duperstar in Yelich, and potential ones in Hiura and Woodruff. If they can make smart moves to surround those guys with solid MLB players, that is the foundation of a strong team for the next 3 years.

[TJseven7]

a player will need to be bumped off the 40-man to make room for one of these two acquisitions.

 

ray black is currently optioned, and will burn his final option this year.

 

drew pomeranz is out of minor league options.

it's been reported that black will be optioned by the brewers.

 

a player still needs to be removed from the 40-man, and it likely will be via designating a pitcher for assignment.

 

if the brewers dfa a pitcher on the active roster, they're essentially playing with a 24-man roster tonight. if they dfa an optioned player, that player is off-limits to a minor league affiliate.

 

aaron wilkerson is the scheduled starter tonight for the missions. trey supak and donnie hart are probably safe. jacob barnes or burch smith, probably not as safe.

 

Wish Wilkerson was starting in Oakland tonight. Good luck Lyles.

[walleye]

Color me not impressed Cubs got better Cards are surging and we get two starters with plus 5 eras two lottery ticket bullpen arms . ( and the worst farm club in baseball) looks like our one year window is poof.

[djoctagone]

i'm predicting jacob barnes dfa'd, and jay jackson optioned when drew pomeranz reports to the club. the brewers keep burch smith as starting pitching depth on the 40-man behind aaron wilkerson.

[TJseven7]

Color me not impressed Cubs got better Cards are surging and we get two starters with plus 5 eras two lottery ticket bullpen arms . ( and the worst farm club in baseball) looks like our one year window is poof.

 

Houston missed the playoffs the year after they started their ascent to the WS.

Playoffs

missed playoffs

WS

 

I have been pointing this out since early June.

 

This team is based on stability depth in the pen and rotation. They whipped through 12 options this year and nothing stuck. That's very unlikely to happen again.

Edited July 31, 2019 by TJseven7

[Bulldogboy]

Wow Astros get Greinke and Sanchez for 7 prospects. What would it be like to have that kind of farm depth to deal from? This is a scary time to be a brewers fan. They have very little on the horizon and the team on the field doesn't look great especially if Moose and Grandal leave.

 

I don't know about that. That rightfielder seems pretty decent, and they have a young 2B who is hitting OK.

 

Honestly, this is a team that has a legit super-duperstar in Yelich, and potential ones in Hiura and Woodruff. If they can make smart moves to surround those guys with solid MLB players, that is the foundation of a strong team for the next 3 years.

I agree with you on the two studs. That said Cain and Braun have played their best ball. First base? Third base with no Moose? Catcher with no Grandal? Arcia? I mean it could be brutal. Outside of Woodruff and I guess Davies who is a lock for the rotation? Nelson appears done. I hope you are right but with the roster looking questionable to say the least you would love a few more high impact farmhands.

[Ennder]

I haven't counted, but I don't think volume-wise this was a particularly slow deadline especially in the 2nd wildcard era. And honestly I don't like a ton of movement. August 15th is too late for my taste. You build a team in the offseason, that's your team. The years when volume has been high and every contender tried to upgrade their 5th reliever well it almost smacks of the obnoxiousness going on in the NBA.

 

I think they said almost 70 players switched teams today, if you add in the few deals earlier in the week it is probably more like 90 this week.

[FVBrewerFan]

I keep seeing how Dubon is an upgrade to Arcia. That's just not reality. People read WAY too much into AAA numbers, which are highly inflated this year on top of it. Dubon is OPSing .809, nice. Except Nate Orf is .802. Saladino was .943, we see how that's turning out. Spangenberg is at .900. Oh, and remember Travis Shaw recently raking down there.

 

Point is, .800 in San Antonio this year is nothing special at all. Dubon does not walk. Very limited power. As dissapointing as Arcia has been, Dubon can't touch his OPS with batting avg alone. And he's not going to hit .300 either. Dubon is Sardinas, Rivera, and the long list of middle IF we have seen before. He will struggle to stay on a roster as a utility guy. I get Arcia isn't much better, but he is better. And I still believe he can become a .750- .770ish hitter.

 

Agreed on Dubon. He has shown nothing special and is already 25. Maybe he makes it as a minimum salary utility guy.

 

Why do you believe Arcia can be a .750-.770 hitter? He's only reached that level in 4 months out of 18 in his career, and 2 out of the most recent 10.

 

Faith. Sorry, don't have much more for you that that. We have seen him have stretches where he's really dialed in, and not just for a week. Granted, those stretches are few and far between but it shows me his ceiling. I will play the "young" card. Yes, you could say he has enough MLB ABs to show "he is what he is" by now. I'm not naive, I realize tat may be the case. I just think he's young and athletic enough that there's time for something to work for him. Stance, swing, maturing as a hitter. He's walking more, and K'ing less so it's a process. All that said, I don't know how many more years I want to wait to see if he breaks through.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm not sure when the Dubon hype train hit the tracks. I just happened to turn on WTMJ as they were reporting the trade and Jeff Wagner referred to Dubon as the Brewers "top prospect". He could be a nice player but what is his ceiling, utility infielder?

[wntrtxn21]

At least Pomeranz has been on the upswing. He had 5 starts since June 1st where he went 5 innings and allowed a total of 2 runs. 5 inning starters are Counsel's thing.

 

Pomeranz's last 5 starts: 23.1 IPs - 28 hits - 14 ERs.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I agree with you on the two studs. That said Cain and Braun have played their best ball. First base? Third base with no Moose? Catcher with no Grandal? Arcia? I mean it could be brutal. Outside of Woodruff and I guess Davies who is a lock for the rotation? Nelson appears done. I hope you are right but with the roster looking questionable to say the least you would love a few more high impact farmhands.

 

You are right. A lot of uncertainty going into next year. With what they are paying Cain, they need him to rebound and be productive next year as well. At 1B today's Aguilar deal all but guarantees that Thames' option will be picked up. Do they move Braun to 1B to platoon with Thames next year and open a spot for Grisham? Perhaps they could resign one of Moose or Grandal ... I mean Moose's market has been crap the last two offseasons, and while he's been decent this year, I can't imagine another team is going to suddenly decide to give him a 3-year, $50 million deal. Do they give Nottingham the chance to win the catcher's job? Pina? Freitas?

 

As for the rotation, I agree that Woody and Davies are likely locks. I think Houser is getting close to being a lock as well. Do they bank on Burnes taking a much-needed leap? Faria is a talented dude that has a chance. Peralta?

 

Definitely more uncertainty right now than at the end of 2018.

[TJseven7]

Allowing 4.69 runs per game has been the killer for this team.

 

Lets remember last years team was Miley Chacin Anderson Guerra Suter Peralta Davies and Gio. That's not a list of world beaters. They simply did their job and didn't get rocked.

Woodruff Davies Anderson are in place for next year

Hader Peralta are locked into the pen. Claudio will be better.

Houser will chime in somewhere in that.

 

Remember the offense has improved by .3 runs per game.

The pitching has been worse by a FULL RUN.

 

The pitching staff has been a collection of gas cans. That's the issue they need to fix. They've fixed it before on a budget.

 

Devin Williams, Rasmussen, Burnes, Faria, Black could play a part making this pen stronger next year.

Avoiding the early season woes of Burnes and Peralta would help this team a lot.

 

Davies 3.56, Woodruff 3.75, Anderson 3.89, Gio 3.48

Hader 2.29, Peralta in the pen 2.52, Houser in the pen 1.47

Albers Guerra and Claudio have put up another 145 IP at a 4.15 ERA and that's not all that damaging.

 

Do you understand HOW BAD everyone else has to be to put up a 4.69 ERA with those numbers going on?

 

10 guys in the rotation doing plenty well enough and the team allows 4.69 runs a game!?!

Edited July 31, 2019 by TJseven7

[owbc]

I'm not sure when the Dubon hype train hit the tracks. I just happened to turn on WTMJ as they were reporting the trade and Jeff Wagner referred to Dubon as the Brewers "top prospect". He could be a nice player but what is his ceiling, utility infielder?

 

It happened when Arcia struggled again this year and the grass started looking greener on the other side.

[Bulldogboy]

The implosion of Burnes cannot be overstated. This time last year the dude looked like a top end starter. At the very least a high leverage reliever. To have him become unpitchable is the single most important thing that has happened to this team this season. If it doesn't turn around it's a killer.

[willie key]

The implosion of Burnes cannot be overstated. This time last year the dude looked like a top end starter. At the very least a high leverage reliever. To have him become unpitchable is the single most important thing that has happened to this team this season. If it doesn't turn around it's a killer.

 

 

I think knebel not pitching one inning was the most important thing. But yes burnes being bad hurt too

[clancyphile]

I agree with you on the two studs. That said Cain and Braun have played their best ball. First base? Third base with no Moose? Catcher with no Grandal? Arcia? I mean it could be brutal. Outside of Woodruff and I guess Davies who is a lock for the rotation? Nelson appears done. I hope you are right but with the roster looking questionable to say the least you would love a few more high impact farmhands.

 

You are right. A lot of uncertainty going into next year. With what they are paying Cain, they need him to rebound and be productive next year as well. At 1B today's Aguilar deal all but guarantees that Thames' option will be picked up. Do they move Braun to 1B to platoon with Thames next year and open a spot for Grisham? Perhaps they could resign one of Moose or Grandal ... I mean Moose's market has been crap the last two offseasons, and while he's been decent this year, I can't imagine another team is going to suddenly decide to give him a 3-year, $50 million deal. Do they give Nottingham the chance to win the catcher's job? Pina? Freitas?

 

As for the rotation, I agree that Woody and Davies are likely locks. I think Houser is getting close to being a lock as well. Do they bank on Burnes taking a much-needed leap? Faria is a talented dude that has a chance. Peralta?

 

Definitely more uncertainty right now than at the end of 2018.

 

They could always bring Grandal back...

 

His market wasn't that hot, either. Miller Park's good for his numbers, and he'll have another year with the staff. I'd say the Brewers pick up his mutual option, and he decides to stick around as well. Maybe extends for another year or two.

[clancyphile]

I'm not sure when the Dubon hype train hit the tracks. I just happened to turn on WTMJ as they were reporting the trade and Jeff Wagner referred to Dubon as the Brewers "top prospect". He could be a nice player but what is his ceiling, utility infielder?

 

It happened when Arcia struggled again this year and the grass started looking greener on the other side.

 

Arcia'll always rank above Jim Gantner for his 2018 post-season run, but Moustakas at short sounds much more appealing. Yeah, he'd be an extremely bat-first option there, but... if he hits like he did this year, is it worth dealing Arcia?