Dubon to SF for Pomeranz and Black

[BruisedCrew]

I expect that Black will be a part of the bullpen next year, even if it's one of the "shuttle" spots. He'll have an opportunity in spring training to earn a bigger role. Some of that depends on whether Knebel comes back at full strength and what Bobby Wahl is like. But I don't think he has shown yet that he has what it takes to be one of the top late inning options.

 

I also expect the Brewers to sign one or more veteran relievers to help fill out the pen.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I expect that Black will be a part of the bullpen next year, even if it's one of the "shuttle" spots. He'll have an opportunity in spring training to earn a bigger role. Some of that depends on whether Knebel comes back at full strength and what Bobby Wahl is like. But I don't think he has shown yet that he has what it takes to be one of the top late inning options.

 

I also expect the Brewers to sign one or more veteran relievers to help fill out the pen.

 

Black is out of options next year, so he'd be here to stay.

[tmwiese55]

He touches 100 from an almost sidearm angle. His numbers may show some concerns but at least there's something to work with which is more than can be said about moste of the bottom feeding bullpen arms we trotted out this year.

 

Yep, obviously yesterday's result is not ideal, but the command of his pitches was crap. He couldn't get his breaking ball over, and when you are forced to groove a FB, it doesn't matter how fast it is. I'm still optimistic about his chances of being a solid late inning pen option. I don't think anyone is calling him a future closer quite yet, though.

 

Well I bet someone is saying it...haha

[Brew crew 92]

He touches 100 from an almost sidearm angle. His numbers may show some concerns but at least there's something to work with which is more than can be said about moste of the bottom feeding bullpen arms we trotted out this year.

 

Yep, obviously yesterday's result is not ideal, but the command of his pitches was crap. He couldn't get his breaking ball over, and when you are forced to groove a FB, it doesn't matter how fast it is. I'm still optimistic about his chances of being a solid late inning pen option. I don't think anyone is calling him a future closer quite yet, though.

 

Well I bet someone is saying it...haha

 

He’s definitely a potential future closer. But a lot has to go right with him for that to happen, and I think we all know what that is, command of his pitches. Simple.

[tmwiese55]

shocker. yes, anyone who throws hard and has a a good 6-7 game run is a future closer. He's up right after Barnes and Taylor Williams.

[Brew crew 92]

shocker. yes, anyone who throws hard and has a a good 6-7 game run is a future closer. He's up right after Barnes and Taylor Williams.

 

Black has way way way way better stuff than the 2 mental midgets that you just mentioned. Command. It’s that simple. Right?

[tmwiese55]

shocker. yes, anyone who throws hard and has a a good 6-7 game run is a future closer. He's up right after Barnes and Taylor Williams.

 

Black has way way way way better stuff than the 2 mental midgets that you just mentioned. Command. It’s that simple. Right?

 

Go take a look at what Barnes did through around mid June last year and let me know how many years and how long of an extension you'd have given him? Simple, obvious, this guy had figured it out. He also throws 99 with a big slider, I'd pretty confidently say his slider bites more than Blacks.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

shocker. yes, anyone who throws hard and has a a good 6-7 game run is a future closer. He's up right after Barnes and Taylor Williams.

 

Black has way way way way better stuff than the 2 mental midgets that you just mentioned. Command. It’s that simple. Right?

 

Go take a look at what Barnes did through around mid June last year and let me know how many years and how long of an extension you'd have given him? Simple, obvious, this guy had figured it out. He also throws 99 with a big slider, I'd pretty confidently say his slider bites more than Blacks.

 

I think it's pretty obvious from BC92's takes that anything anyone did last year does not matter at all. Heck, we're lucky if anything someone did more than two weeks ago comes into play.

[Brew crew 92]

shocker. yes, anyone who throws hard and has a a good 6-7 game run is a future closer. He's up right after Barnes and Taylor Williams.

 

Black has way way way way better stuff than the 2 mental midgets that you just mentioned. Command. It’s that simple. Right?

 

Go take a look at what Barnes did through around mid June last year and let me know how many years and how long of an extension you'd have given him? Simple, obvious, this guy had figured it out. He also throws 99 with a big slider, I'd pretty confidently say his slider bites more than Blacks.

 

No, actually Barnes lost 3+ ticks, commented on that in February, never liked those two. Sorry neither of them ever hit 105 on the gun . Let’s get back to my extension’s:

 

Hiura > 8 years

Grisham > 8 years

Lyles > 2/3 years

Pomeranz 2/3 years

 

That’s it. Those are my extension’s. Never wanted any more to anyone other than these. Even more fervent in my belief they should be extended now than before, when I first said extend. I called for Hiura extension before they called him, to avoid the super 2 game.

 

Would have already saved millions, especially with the first 2.

[tmwiese55]

I said what would you have said about him in mid June last year as he was raking up an upper 1 to low 2s ERA? Not what in the preseason this year after he flopped 2nd half last year. That was the point, guys can get hot for a bit and come back to earth really quickly. Thus, why one should go nuts over a 30 year old who's done nothing and been hurt a ton having a good 10 game stretch.

[Brew crew 92]

I said what would you have said about him in mid June last year as he was raking up an upper 1 to low 2s ERA? Not what in the preseason this year after he flopped 2nd half last year. That was the point, guys can get hot for a bit and come back to earth really quickly. Thus, why one should go nuts over a 30 year old who's done nothing and been hurt a ton having a good 10 game stretch.

 

Sure.

Good low leverage mop up arms, the both of them. Barnes actually lost 3 ticks sometime in 2017. Never liked either of them, outside of Barnes in early 17 for just a bit.

 

I’m not going nuts over Black. Odds off gaining enough command to close > 25%. But to still be an effective pen arm > 60%.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Brew crew 92

[FVBrewerFan]

I said what would you have said about him in mid June last year as he was raking up an upper 1 to low 2s ERA? Not what in the preseason this year after he flopped 2nd half last year. That was the point, guys can get hot for a bit and come back to earth really quickly. Thus, why one should go nuts over a 30 year old who's done nothing and been hurt a ton having a good 10 game stretch.

 

Sure.

Mental midgets the both of them. Barnes actually lost 3 ticks sometime in 2017. Never liked either of them, outside of Barnes in early 17 for just a bit.

 

I’m not going nuts over Black. Odds off gaining enough command to close > 25%. But to still be an effective pen arm > 60%.

 

But if he can ever truly command his pitches, he’d be unhittable.

 

No, you're not going nuts over Black. Calling a 30 yr old relief pitcher's ceiling "unhittable" seems reasonable.

[tmwiese55]

haha guy puts up a 2.00 ERA over 3 months throwing 97-100. yea no way I was high on him, knew the whole time he was a bum. Guy has one dominant outing in AAA, he's figured it out and ready to dominate if you don't see it you're ignorant!!!! haha

 

Just jiving there of course. You're last post is much more realistic on acknowledging the range of possibilities with Black as opposed to a few post earlier when it was "definitely". Think that's what most folks are getting at, just trimming the small sample overreactions and absolutisms. love the energy and positivity, hopefully they keep winning and you can rub it in all our faces how you were right on your current view.

[Brew crew 92]

haha guy puts up a 2.00 ERA over 3 months throwing 97-100. yea no way I was high on him, knew the whole time he was a bum. Guy has one dominant outing in AAA, he's figured it out and ready to dominate if you don't see it you're ignorant!!!! haha

 

Just jiving there of course. You're last post is much more realistic on acknowledging the range of possibilities with Black as opposed to a few post earlier when it was "definitely". Think that's what most folks are getting at, just trimming the small sample overreactions and absolutisms. love the energy and positivity, hopefully they keep winning and you can rub it in all our faces how you were right on your current view.

 

 

Ha. Ok. Me too.

[PeaveyFury]

Mental midgets the both of them.

 

You doubled down on this phrase, and I'm not a fan.

[Sal Bando]

Dubon with a 127 OPS+ right now at the MLB level. .302/.327/.547 slash line in 55 plate appearances.

[82brewcrew82]

Drew Pomeranz has a 163 ERA+ right now with the Brewers. 2.79/1.14/14.9 in 19.1 IP.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

While I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't mind having Dubon around as an alternative at SS right now, I love what Pomeranz has provided this year so far, and I am very intrigued by Black's upside longer term. Edited September 17, 2019 by Joey Meyer Bombs

[nate82]

Mental midgets the both of them.

 

You doubled down on this phrase, and I'm not a fan.

 

I think the only player in recent memory to be this was Manny Parra and that was mostly him not getting out of his own head.

[HiAndTight]

 

But if he can ever truly command his pitches, he’d be unhittable.

 

No, you're not going nuts over Black. Calling a 30 yr old relief pitcher's ceiling "unhittable" seems reasonable.

 

 

Actually...yeah, that is pretty reasonable. If he can command his pitches, he probably would be unhittable.

 

If you can throw the ball 100 MPH where you want it, you're usually unhittable.

 

Webb would also be "unhittable," if he could command all of his pitches. But neither have shown they can for extended periods of time.

[Ennder]

Dubon with a 127 OPS+ right now at the MLB level. .302/.327/.547 slash line in 55 plate appearances.

 

At least use some stats that are approaching being meaningful in that small sample.

 

His average exit velocity is well below average at 83.6. His barrel rate is just awful, one of the worst in baseball. His xwOBA is .286 which is also well below average. His walk rate is downright ugly. The only really good thing he is doing right now is not striking out and that carries a good bit of value in today's game imo. His launch angle is also decent so he is at least hitting the ball in the proper plane. The samples are too small for any stat to really capture things so far but overall Dubon's stats don't paint a very pretty picture so far.

[brewmann04]

It will be cool if the trade works for both teams.

[Brew crew 92]

Dubon with a 127 OPS+ right now at the MLB level. .302/.327/.547 slash line in 55 plate appearances.

 

At least use some stats that are approaching being meaningful in that small sample.

 

His average exit velocity is well below average at 83.6. His barrel rate is just awful, one of the worst in baseball. His xwOBA is .286 which is also well below average. His walk rate is downright ugly. The only really good thing he is doing right now is not striking out and that carries a good bit of value in today's game imo. His launch angle is also decent so he is at least hitting the ball in the proper plane. The samples are too small for any stat to really capture things so far but overall Dubon's stats don't paint a very pretty picture so far.

 

You and Sveum and Lathund sure know your Analytic’s. I sure feel better after reading your analysis.

[Ennder]

With these small samples I would normally trust the scouts over the analytics. But the scouts are so mixed on what he is that it is hard to rely on them. What he has actually done at the major league level so far this year doesn't look very good even if the actual stats look good. Process generally trumps results, especially when you are talking these really tiny sample sizes. It is one of the keys to winning at fantasy baseball, being able to understand when the basic stats aren't telling you what is truly happening.

[wallus]

Fire Stearns