Dubon to SF for Pomeranz and Black

[Lathund]

They could always bring Grandal back...

 

His market wasn't that hot, either. Miller Park's good for his numbers, and he'll have another year with the staff. I'd say the Brewers pick up his mutual option, and he decides to stick around as well. Maybe extends for another year or two.

 

If Grandal comes back it won't be as a result of the mutual option. It's for $16m, with a $2.25m buyout that he gets (as I understand it) even if the Brewers opt in and Grandal opts out. Why would he opt in for what's essentially $13.75m for one year? This time there is no qualifying offer, and he's having a very good season. He's getting more than the $18.25m guaranteed he got last year, for sure.

[long ball]

The implosion of Burnes cannot be overstated. This time last year the dude looked like a top end starter. At the very least a high leverage reliever. To have him become unpitchable is the single most important thing that has happened to this team this season. If it doesn't turn around it's a killer.

 

 

I think knebel not pitching one inning was the most important thing. But yes burnes being bad hurt too

 

Yep. Losing at least 150 good-dominant innings from Knebel and Burnes is the biggest killer. Add in a mediocre Jeffress and that's ~200-250 quality innings the Brewers were likely counting on when spring training opened.

[thebruce44]

I think this is another case of the Brewers FO being creative at the deadline. We can't just look at the individuals players to evaluate the trades- we have to factor in their role on this team in September. These players will hopefully keep us in the playoff picture through August, and then come September we now have a bunch of 2-3 inning high 90s out-getters to throw at the opposing team in whatever order matches up best.

 

We are going quantity over quality as that is were Stearns sees potential value right now. Let your quality starters get healthy and align through the next 2 months and hope you make it into the show. Its the best we could do this year and doesn't mortgage 2020, 2021, or 2022.

[long ball]

I think this is another case of the Brewers FO being creative at the deadline. We can't just look at the individuals players to evaluate the trades- we have to factor in their role on this team in September. These players will hopefully keep us in the playoff picture through August, and then come September we now have a bunch of 2-3 inning high 90s out-getters to throw at the opposing team in whatever order matches up best.

 

We are going quantity over quality as that is were Stearns sees potential value right now. Let your quality starters get healthy and align through the next 2 months and hope you make it into the show. Its the best we could do this year and doesn't mortgage 2020, 2021, or 2022.

 

I agree with this for the most part. Had to basically get in the August trade acquisitions in this month too because they eliminated the waiver deadline.

 

Sure, I wish they did more but the only guy that got traded who was in my "realistic" SP target group was Roark.

[CheezWizHed]

Pomeranz's career stats look a bit like Jimmy Nelson's. Similar WHIP, BB/9IP, K/9IP(Pomeranz is actually a bit better), ERA. Both of their better production years are closely tied to their BB/9 rate; things quickly go south when they exceed 3BB/9IP.

[Thurston Fluff]

Let me ask you, are you satisfied with the rotation right now?? Is it division winning quality to you?? I'll hang up and listen to your answer

 

The rotational piece you want means trading Hiura. There really isn't anything else in the system worth enough. I do not want to trade Hiura. Basically you are asking for something that isn't possible.

 

I disagree 100%...No way any of those guys available should cost Hiura. Grisham?? Sure, totally fine with that plus other pieces. That's what I thought they would pull off, using him in a deal for one.

 

Now that we see the price for Greinke and the comments from Stearns on the price of quality starting pitchers I think we can safely assume Grisham was not going to get us a quality starter.

[igor67]

I think it is fair to say that a lot went right last year with the pitching, this year we've had worse luck then average. Even offensively Hiura is really the only over achiever and there are multiple candidates for underachievement. And we are still playing authentically competitive ball. The number of teams close to us may lower the post season odds noticeably, but we are unlikely to be eliminate until the last week of the season at the worst.

[Brewcrewin07]

When did the term needle mover become so fashionable as a way to describe a single player? It's as if only one big move can make a difference while a combination of little moves can't. Taking all the moves together we are aruguably better than we were yesterday. How isn't that moving the needle?

 

 

I will tell you what a needle mover is...To me it's a player or players that you acquire, that almost EVERYONE in baseball or associated with baseball in anyway can clearly see by acquiring that player you made your team better for a pennant race, or into the postseason. They are a proven commodity, very consistent in what they do and will make an impact down the stretch...some examples of this...when the Brewers acquired CC Sabathia=HUGE needle mover...do they make the playoffs without him?? Absolutely NOT. When they acquired Zach Greinke=HUGE needle mover. When those two took the mound every night, you felt like you had a legitimate chance to win every night they pitched. You knew they were VERY unlikely to get shelled(it happens to everyone).

 

Examples this year...Greinke to the Stros...that pretty much locks them in as the clear American league favorites to at least get to the World Series, and now with that rotation can go head to head with the Dodgers, easily. Shane Greene to the Braves...model of consistency, night in night out when he closes. he comes in, almost always he will finish it out...=Needle movers.

 

What the Brewers did today are NOT needle moving moves...they can be I guess, but..you hope/wish/cross your fingers that it can. Not enough of an impact for it to be a CLEAR upgrade for anything. especially the rotation.

[monkeyman343434]

When did the term needle mover become so fashionable as a way to describe a single player? It's as if only one big move can make a difference while a combination of little moves can't. Taking all the moves together we are aruguably better than we were yesterday. How isn't that moving the needle?

 

 

I will tell you what a needle mover is...To me it's a player or players that you acquire, that almost EVERYONE in baseball or associated with baseball in anyway can clearly see by acquiring that player you made your team better for a pennant race, or into the postseason. They are a proven commodity, very consistent in what they do and will make an impact down the stretch...some examples of this...when the Brewers acquired CC Sabathia=HUGE needle mover...do they make the playoffs without him?? Absolutely NOT. When they acquired Zach Greinke=HUGE needle mover. When those two took the mound every night, you felt like you had a legitimate chance to win every night they pitched. You knew they were VERY unlikely to get shelled(it happens to everyone).

 

Examples this year...Greinke to the Stros...that pretty much locks them in as the clear American league favorites to at least get to the World Series, and now with that rotation can go head to head with the Dodgers, easily. Shane Greene to the Braves...model of consistency, night in night out when he closes. he comes in, almost always he will finish it out...=Needle movers.

 

What the Brewers did today are NOT needle moving moves...they can be I guess, but..you hope/wish/cross your fingers that it can. Not enough of an impact for it to be a CLEAR upgrade for anything. especially the rotation.

 

so REALISTICALLY, what did you want the Brewers to do today?

[rickh150]

I find it extremely odd that Dubon did not get a shot earlier in the year to start at SS. We had an opportunity for him, but Saladino got the call. It was deserved too, but Saladino is more seen as a utility fill in, not our next SS. I have to assume that Dubon was atrade chip all along, not someone thought highly of at all.

I am fine with this trade, although on paper it looks like we lost it. I mean, our prettynear top prospect for a FA to be lefty and a big arm lottery ticket? We'll see. Pitch wins games and we need pitching, though. This helps our pitching depth.

[rickh150]

When did the term needle mover become so fashionable as a way to describe a single player? It's as if only one big move can make a difference while a combination of little moves can't. Taking all the moves together we are aruguably better than we were yesterday. How isn't that moving the needle?

 

 

I will tell you what a needle mover is...To me it's a player or players that you acquire, that almost EVERYONE in baseball or associated with baseball in anyway can clearly see by acquiring that player you made your team better for a pennant race, or into the postseason. They are a proven commodity, very consistent in what they do and will make an impact down the stretch...some examples of this...when the Brewers acquired CC Sabathia=HUGE needle mover...do they make the playoffs without him?? Absolutely NOT. When they acquired Zach Greinke=HUGE needle mover. When those two took the mound every night, you felt like you had a legitimate chance to win every night they pitched. You knew they were VERY unlikely to get shelled(it happens to everyone).

 

Examples this year...Greinke to the Stros...that pretty much locks them in as the clear American league favorites to at least get to the World Series, and now with that rotation can go head to head with the Dodgers, easily. Shane Greene to the Braves...model of consistency, night in night out when he closes. he comes in, almost always he will finish it out...=Needle movers.

 

What the Brewers did today are NOT needle moving moves...they can be I guess, but..you hope/wish/cross your fingers that it can. Not enough of an impact for it to be a CLEAR upgrade for anything. especially the rotation.

 

so REALISTICALLY, what did you want the Brewers to do today?

 

We all were expecting one decent starting pitcher, right? That didn't happen.

[OldHeidelberg]

I am not loving this deal at first glance, as someone else said we already have some guys who throw hard who can't get it done in the majors. But I guess when you are thin on prospects you have to try to mine some nuggets. I doubt we will regret Dubon but then I never really thought Cain or Brantley would be half the players they turned out to be either. Oh well, about what I expected I guess for our deadline deals just seems like the Giants fans are probably thrilled about landing our #3 prospect for those guys.

[Brewcrewin07]

so REALISTICALLY, what did you want the Brewers to do today?

 

We all were expecting one decent starting pitcher, right? That didn't happen.

 

This...all of this. As much as I wanted a "big" move, I would have been perfectly happy with a couple of Tanner Roark type acquisitions for the rotation. Instead they want to be taken seriously in a pennant race, when the only acquisition they make to their starting rotation is Jordan Lyles?? Really?? Sure, I get prices were high on the big fish, but it didn't cost Oakland much to get Roark. You couldn't have found two steady arms(at a lower cost) to put in the rotation now to at least give you a somewhat decent rotation until Woody gets back?? Yeah Chacin comes back...big deal, he's been AWFUL. Davies has been getting shelled..No, you realistically can't cover all of that, but if you go get two Tanner Roark types, you can at least likely "cover" up some of that. Which may be all that was necessary. To not come away with at least ONE reliable starter, if anyone says they are fine with that they are full of you know what..

[Brewcrewin07]

Right now, there rotation this weekend against the Cubs is Davies, Gio, Houser...is that supposed to be taken seriously?? That's what you are trotting out there for a series against your division rivals in the middle of a playoff chase?? Lovely..

[TJseven7]

so REALISTICALLY, what did you want the Brewers to do today?

 

We all were expecting one decent starting pitcher, right? That didn't happen.

 

This...all of this. As much as I wanted a "big" move, I would have been perfectly happy with a couple of Tanner Roark type acquisitions for the rotation. Instead they want to be taken seriously in a pennant race, when the only acquisition they make to their starting rotation is Jordan Lyles?? Really?? Sure, I get prices were high on the big fish, but it didn't cost Oakland much to get Roark. You couldn't have found two steady arms(at a lower cost) to put in the rotation now to at least give you a somewhat decent rotation until Woody gets back?? Yeah Chacin comes back...big deal, he's been AWFUL. Davies has been getting shelled..No, you realistically can't cover all of that, but if you go get two Tanner Roark types, you can at least likely "cover" up some of that. Which may be all that was necessary. To not come away with at least ONE reliable starter, if anyone says they are fine with that they are full of you know what..

 

You don't buy when you are under performing. That is what stupid teams do. That is what you want? MKE to do what stupid teams do?

 

Enough already... no one was walking in the door and saving this season and making it a WS team. Why don't you get that. The price to add anything as big as you wanted would have obliterated the farm completely. That's not what smart teams do.

[Warning Track Power]

When did the term needle mover become so fashionable as a way to describe a single player? It's as if only one big move can make a difference while a combination of little moves can't. Taking all the moves together we are aruguably better than we were yesterday. How isn't that moving the needle?

 

 

I will tell you what a needle mover is...To me it's a player or players that you acquire, that almost EVERYONE in baseball or associated with baseball in anyway can clearly see by acquiring that player you made your team better for a pennant race, or into the postseason. They are a proven commodity, very consistent in what they do and will make an impact down the stretch...some examples of this...when the Brewers acquired CC Sabathia=HUGE needle mover...do they make the playoffs without him?? Absolutely NOT. When they acquired Zach Greinke=HUGE needle mover. When those two took the mound every night, you felt like you had a legitimate chance to win every night they pitched. You knew they were VERY unlikely to get shelled(it happens to everyone).

 

Examples this year...Greinke to the Stros...that pretty much locks them in as the clear American league favorites to at least get to the World Series, and now with that rotation can go head to head with the Dodgers, easily. Shane Greene to the Braves...model of consistency, night in night out when he closes. he comes in, almost always he will finish it out...=Needle movers.

 

What the Brewers did today are NOT needle moving moves...they can be I guess, but..you hope/wish/cross your fingers that it can. Not enough of an impact for it to be a CLEAR upgrade for anything. especially the rotation.

 

so REALISTICALLY, what did you want the Brewers to do today?

While I was initially disappointed in this trade (and I still don't necessarily love it), it has become crystal clear that the prices on pitching was astronomical and this was about the extent of what the Brewers could do with their system. Did you see what the Astros gave up for Greinke? And they are STILL having to pay him a significant amount of his contract. Short of dealing Hiura, the Brewers simply weren't going to be able to acquire that top end pitcher.

 

Like I have said previously, I blame the click-baiting of Robert Murray that got all of our hopes up by saying Dubon was being traded in a "significant" deal. I think any one of us would assume a writer calling a "significant" deal for players of Pomeranz, Black and Dubon is the epitome of bad journalism. This one tweet alone got me emotionally twisted for this deal as I automatically assumed the deal would include actual significant pieces like Bumgarner or Smith, as well as actual significant pieces (Ray, Turang, Grisham, etc...) being included on the Brewers end.

[LouisEly]

I've had my eye on Ray Black for years. Career minor league K/9 of 16.8. Think about that for a minute. (For reference, Hader was 10.1; granted, he was starting most of the time but 15.1 in 2012 as an 18-year-old in relief).

 

I don't think this is the year to go for it. Save your bullets for the offseason and reload with a couple of free agents on short-term deals, and give Peralta and Burnes more time to develop. Dubon on his own wasn't going to bring back anything special. Throw some spaghetti on the wall and see if you can turn into the 2006 Cardinals.

[TJseven7]

Right now, there rotation this weekend against the Cubs is Davies, Gio, Houser...is that supposed to be taken seriously?? That's what you are trotting out there for a series against your division rivals in the middle of a playoff chase?? Lovely..

 

Yeah man I mean like they should have totally added Synder, Bum and Stroman. What were they thinking?

 

Just go all in with a weak hand!

[Brewcrewin07]

so REALISTICALLY, what did you want the Brewers to do today?

 

We all were expecting one decent starting pitcher, right? That didn't happen.

 

This...all of this. As much as I wanted a "big" move, I would have been perfectly happy with a couple of Tanner Roark type acquisitions for the rotation. Instead they want to be taken seriously in a pennant race, when the only acquisition they make to their starting rotation is Jordan Lyles?? Really?? Sure, I get prices were high on the big fish, but it didn't cost Oakland much to get Roark. You couldn't have found two steady arms(at a lower cost) to put in the rotation now to at least give you a somewhat decent rotation until Woody gets back?? Yeah Chacin comes back...big deal, he's been AWFUL. Davies has been getting shelled..No, you realistically can't cover all of that, but if you go get two Tanner Roark types, you can at least likely "cover" up some of that. Which may be all that was necessary. To not come away with at least ONE reliable starter, if anyone says they are fine with that they are full of you know what..

 

You don't buy when you are under performing. That is what stupid teams do. That is what you want? MKE to do what stupid teams do?

 

Enough already... no one was walking in the door and saving this season and making it a WS team. Why don't you get that. The price to add anything as big as you wanted would have obliterated the farm completely. That's not what smart teams do.

 

Didn't I just say I would have been happy with a couple of Tanner Roark type upgrades for the rotation?? That would not have even come close to "oblterating" the farm. I really wanted two, would have been satisfied with one...instead we got none.

[Brewcrewin07]

I will tell you what a needle mover is...To me it's a player or players that you acquire, that almost EVERYONE in baseball or associated with baseball in anyway can clearly see by acquiring that player you made your team better for a pennant race, or into the postseason. They are a proven commodity, very consistent in what they do and will make an impact down the stretch...some examples of this...when the Brewers acquired CC Sabathia=HUGE needle mover...do they make the playoffs without him?? Absolutely NOT. When they acquired Zach Greinke=HUGE needle mover. When those two took the mound every night, you felt like you had a legitimate chance to win every night they pitched. You knew they were VERY unlikely to get shelled(it happens to everyone).

 

Examples this year...Greinke to the Stros...that pretty much locks them in as the clear American league favorites to at least get to the World Series, and now with that rotation can go head to head with the Dodgers, easily. Shane Greene to the Braves...model of consistency, night in night out when he closes. he comes in, almost always he will finish it out...=Needle movers.

 

What the Brewers did today are NOT needle moving moves...they can be I guess, but..you hope/wish/cross your fingers that it can. Not enough of an impact for it to be a CLEAR upgrade for anything. especially the rotation.

 

so REALISTICALLY, what did you want the Brewers to do today?

While I was initially disappointed in this trade (and I still don't necessarily love it), it has become crystal clear that the prices on pitching was astronomical and this was about the extent of what the Brewers could do with their system. Did you see what the Astros gave up for Greinke? And they are STILL having to pay him a significant amount of his contract. Short of dealing Hiura, the Brewers simply weren't going to be able to acquire that top end pitcher.

 

Like I have said previously, I blame the click-baiting of Robert Murray that got all of our hopes up by saying Dubon was being traded in a "significant" deal. I think any one of us would assume a writer calling a "significant" deal for players of Pomeranz, Black and Dubon is the epitome of bad journalism. This one tweet alone got me emotionally twisted for this deal as I automatically assumed the deal would include actual significant pieces like Bumgarner or Smith, as well as actual significant pieces (Ray, Turang, Grisham, etc...) being included on the Brewers end.

 

EXACTLY....that's what really set me off the rest of the day...to say "significant" and then for it to be this?? Bad, bad, bad, HORRIBLY bad journalism.

[pacopete4]

Brewcrewin07 is not happy with the deadline and is now dragging down just about every thread? Imagine that.

 

PS. Learn how to quote people.

[LouisEly]

Maybe try going to work and being in meetings all day so you can't check your phone. Made for a nice low-stress day for me.

[Brewcrewin07]

Brewcrewin07 is not happy with the deadline and is now dragging down just about every thread? Imagine that.

PS. Learn how to quote people.

 

Believe me that annoys me to only being able to embed three quotes...how do you get around that?? I don't know how to do it.

[thebruce44]

Brewcrewin07 is not happy with the deadline and is now dragging down just about every thread? Imagine that.

PS. Learn how to quote people.

 

Believe me that annoys me to only being able to embed three quotes...how do you get around that?? I don't know how to do it.

 

If you're going three quotes deep you're doing something wrong. Just delete what isn't relevant, make your point, then move on.

[wntrtxn21]

I'm not sure when the Dubon hype train hit the tracks. I just happened to turn on WTMJ as they were reporting the trade and Jeff Wagner referred to Dubon as the Brewers "top prospect". He could be a nice player but what is his ceiling, utility infielder?

 

It happened when Arcia struggled again this year and the grass started looking greener on the other side.

 

Arcia'll always rank above Jim Gantner for his 2018 post-season run, but Moustakas at short sounds much more appealing. Yeah, he'd be an extremely bat-first option there, but... if he hits like he did this year, is it worth dealing Arcia?

 

Moustakas was a well below avg. 2B. He would be the league's absolute worst SS.