Why is everyone against trading Moustakas and/or Grandal?

[Lovethegame5]

Since June 1st the Brewers are 24-26.

Since June 1st, Moustakas is hitting .246 with an OPS of .807 and Grandal is hitting .236 with an OPS of .816.

Since June 1st - Many Pina is hitting .280 with an OPS of .979.

If you look at those stats since July 1st - Its even more pronounced

Moustakas .200, .642 - Grandal .232, .739, and Pina .375, 1.192

Also - The pitching staff has an E.R.A. of a run lower this season when Pina is catching instead of Grandal. This poor game caller rep is nothing new for Grandal and is a big reason why the Dodgers switched to the no-hitting Austin Barnes late last season, much of the post season, and the reason there wasn't much of a free-agent market for him as well. Everyone wants to bring up the change in pitching coaches, but how about the guy calling the majority of the games this season for part of the reason of having a disappointing pitching staff.

 

I say lets get as much as we can for Moustakas and Grandal before they walk and lets see if Shaw and Pina can hit .250 with an OPS of .800 the rest of the year.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

This is literally being discussed all over the transactions/rumors forum, and it is very obvious that saying "everyone is against trading" those guys is 100% hyperbole. There is quite a strong contingent that sees value in a rental sell-off. I personally would rather see them shoot for the playoffs this year, but I certainly see the value in dealing those guys off in the return is decent.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think a good number of people are for it. Shaw is worthless though. Some are really clinging to "this team can get hot" and that they're still very much in things by way of a bad NL and bad NL Central.

 

Sorry, I'm not pinning the staff on Grandal. They're not very good with anyone back there.

 

Another problem is that the contenders have catchers. Their value isn't as high as people seem to think. At this point, I'd rather just keep them and go for lightning in a bottle. Cubs and Cardinals seem just as incapable of pulling away. My money is on STL.

[Pugger]

I think a good number of people are for it. Shaw is worthless though. Some are really clinging to "this team can get hot" and that they're still very much in things by way of a bad NL and bad NL Central.

 

Sorry, I'm not pinning the staff on Grandal. They're not very good with anyone back there.

 

Another problem is that the contenders have catchers. Their value isn't as high as people seem to think. At this point, I'd rather just keep them and go for lightning in a bottle. Cubs and Cardinals seem just as incapable of pulling away. My money is on STL.

 

Yes, they are hot right now but could cool down and perform yet again like they had most of this season. Until the Cubs figure out their bullpen they won't pull away either. I wouldn't mind keeping both Moose and Grandal one more season if the price is right.

[patrickgpe]

Id trade moose, not grandal. they have options to replace moose, but really nothing solid at catcher. if thats what they have to do get some pitching, i like that solution rather than trading their last few top prospects.

[sveumrules]

Both Statcast & BPro have Grandal 2nd in MLB in framing runs.

 

Catcher ERA is extremely noisy (especially when one guy has 3.5x times more innings than the other), but here are Yasmani & his other guy's Catcher ERAs with the Dodgers...

 

2015: Yaz 3.35 | Ellis 3.37

2016: Yaz 3.72 | Ellis 3.28

2017: Yaz 3.22 | Barnes 3.74

2018: Yaz 3.37 | Barnes 3.35

 

Maybe Grandal just got bad at game calling this year or maybe like OSS said above, our pitchers just aren't very good.

[TURBO]

Id trade moose, not grandal. they have options to replace moose, but really nothing solid at catcher. if thats what they have to do get some pitching, i like that solution rather than trading their last few top prospects.

 

Curious who our options are at 3B if we trade Moose?

 

imo, if we trade Moose and/or Grandal, we are throwing in the towel on this season.

 

Even if we somehow got back a TOR starter and lockdown reliever, the offense we'd replace Moose and Grandal with would be detrimental to us winning this year.

[benji]

I like Pina, but he is also getting 1/2 starts

a week in favorable matchups. Grandal will get hot again. There is no doubt he is a much better hitter.

 

 

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[tmwiese55]

I think anyone can see the logic in it. Both guys have in house replacements that we just won the division with last year. However, those against it are simply seeing that we're 2 games out and it's very tough to quit when 2 games out. As a team with like 5 total playoff appearances ever there is a value in providing a winning and competitive team. Combine that with since they're rentals you're unlikely to get thaaaat much and you might as well just roll with it. Remember almost no contending teams need a C so that really limites Grandal. Then remember how little we gave up for Moose to get an idea on what we'd get back for him. Also, remember you'd be trading Moose to a contender and what contender is going to give up pitching (what we need)? So it would be a prospect or two back that likely never makes the bigs.

 

An interesting route could've been getting involved in that 3 way for Bauer since Cle wanted MLB ready players and are weak at 2B where Moose could play. Or they could move Ramirez to 2B and let moose play 3B.

[benji]

Except Cleveland wanted RH bats

 

 

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[pacopete4]

Is the guy trying to steal my “Sell Mode” topics thunder?!? Not cool.

[FVBrewerFan]

Also - The pitching staff has an E.R.A. of a run lower this season when Pina is catching instead of Grandal. This poor game caller rep is nothing new for Grandal and is a big reason why the Dodgers switched to the no-hitting Austin Barnes late last season, much of the post season, and the reason there wasn't much of a free-agent market for him as well. Everyone wants to bring up the change in pitching coaches, but how about the guy calling the majority of the games this season for part of the reason of having a disappointing pitching staff.

 

Welcome to the Forum! I think the whole "calling the game" thing is more of a 1950's thing. The game is largely called from the dugout these days. Look closely, and you'll see any catcher constantly looking into the dugout between pitches. Not to mention before a series and each game the pitchers/catchers meet with the coaching staff, analytics people, advance scouts, etc. and plan out how each hitter is going to be pitched.

[jerichoholicninja]

Watch the Brewers on TV and the team is a borderline disaster. Look at the Brewers in the standings and they are very much in the thick of it. Who knows what to do.

[Lovethegame5]

I'd go with a bit better, but I'm not sold on much better.

Career Stats

Grandal = .242 Avg and .794 OPS

Pina = .257 Avg and .726 OPS

 

Here are some defensive career stats - averaged over 150 games

Grandal - 14 passed balls, 75 stolen bases with just 26 caught stealing

Pina - 4 passed balls, 55 stolen bases (less people will try stealing on Pina) with 31 caught stealing

 

Does anyone still believe in Travis Shaw. I understand that he has had a terrible 2019, but don't forget in 296 games with the Brewers in 2017 and 2018

He hit .258, .347, .497 with 57 doubles and 63 Homeruns. We need the Mayor of Ding Dong City to make a comeback.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Id trade moose, not grandal. they have options to replace moose, but really nothing solid at catcher. if thats what they have to do get some pitching, i like that solution rather than trading their last few top prospects.

 

Curious who our options are at 3B if we trade Moose?

 

imo, if we trade Moose and/or Grandal, we are throwing in the towel on this season.

 

Even if we somehow got back a TOR starter and lockdown reliever, the offense we'd replace Moose and Grandal with would be detrimental to us winning this year.

 

[sarcasm][/sarcasm]Lucas Erceg is batting 201, he literally isn’t hitting his weight, and opsing 700. Maybe this is the replacement they are looking at? [sarcasm] [sarcasm]

[sveumrules]

I'd go with a bit better, but I'm not sold on much better.

Career Stats

Grandal = .242 Avg and .794 OPS

Pina = .257 Avg and .726 OPS

 

Grandal career: 118 wRC+

Grandal 2019: 124 wRC+

 

Pina career: 90 wRC+

Pina 2019: 88 wRC+

 

I'd say Yaz being 30-35% better than Manny at the plate is more than just a bit.

 

Is Pina a better defender? Possibly, it depends on how much weight one puts on framing where Grandal has consistently graded out as elite.

 

Even if Manny is a better defender, is it enough to make up for being 30-35% worse at the plate? I don't believe so.

[tmwiese55]

We all know Pina is better on D than Grandal. But no way Pina is ever hitting 30 HRs like Grandal is going to do, he's just not in the same ballpark on offense. Moreover, Pina really seems to struggle with a full time workload, maybe just simply due to being a bit older. I'm generally fine with Pina as a starting C but you then need another good C to go with him (not Kratz) because he can't play 6/7 games like Grandal is doing.