Woodruff/Burnes

[Bulldogboy]

One of the most interesting things about this year's team is the separate tracks that Burnes and Woodruff have taken. Coming up I think they both were highly regarded top 100 prospects. Then Woodruff seemed to struggle a bit when given a shot. Burnes came in last year and was impressive early and both ended the season being lights out in the playoffs. This year they both are given spots in the rotation. Woodruff turns into the ace and an all star. Burnes gets crushed early gets sent down and has been a disaster from spring training on. He appears to be a lost cause this season. I for one thought that Burnes of the two would be the better pitcher. I had hopes for him to be a Sheets type starter with Woodruff perhaps being a Nelson clone if all went well. I have no idea how these two have gone so far in the opposite direction. With the strides that Woodruff has made if Burnes had become what we thought he could this team would be set for a stretch with high end starting pitching. Burnes failure is the single biggest negative of this season by far. What happened?? Any thoughts??

[wildcat83]

One of the most interesting things about this year's team is the separate tracks that Burnes and Woodruff have taken. Coming up I think they both were highly regarded top 100 prospects. Then Woodruff seemed to struggle a bit when given a shot. Burnes came in last year and was impressive early and both ended the season being lights out in the playoffs. This year they both are given spots in the rotation. Woodruff turns into the ace and an all star. Burnes gets crushed early gets sent down and has been a disaster from spring training on. He appears to be a lost cause this season. I for one thought that Burnes of the two would be the better pitcher. I had hopes for him to be a Sheets type starter with Woodruff perhaps being a Nelson clone if all went well. I have no idea how these two have gone so far in the opposite direction. With the strides that Woodruff has made if Burnes had become what we thought he could this team would be set for a stretch with high end starting pitching. Burnes failure is the single biggest negative of this season by far. What happened?? Any thoughts??

 

I don’t know what happened, if it’s a mechanical thing, or a confidence thing that snowballed, or what. I do know the rest of our arms largely being a dumpster fire or injured seems to have prevented him from fixing it. I really think he needs to go down to be able to work on mechanics and build some confidence. Every time he’s gone down there’s an injury or something that has led to him being called right back up. He’s never had 3-4 weeks in San Antonio to make adjustments. If our pen was stable they could have afforded to let him stay down earlier in the year.

 

If we somehow right the ship and make the playoffs he needs to be effective to make a deep run. We don’t have a ton of arms with top end stuff, but he’s one of the few who does. He needs to go down and stay there till he figures it out. He’s a huge piece to not only this year, but our window in general.

[TigerUppercut]

One of the most interesting things about this year's team is the separate tracks that Burnes and Woodruff have taken. Coming up I think they both were highly regarded top 100 prospects. Then Woodruff seemed to struggle a bit when given a shot. Burnes came in last year and was impressive early and both ended the season being lights out in the playoffs. This year they both are given spots in the rotation. Woodruff turns into the ace and an all star. Burnes gets crushed early gets sent down and has been a disaster from spring training on. He appears to be a lost cause this season. I for one thought that Burnes of the two would be the better pitcher. I had hopes for him to be a Sheets type starter with Woodruff perhaps being a Nelson clone if all went well. I have no idea how these two have gone so far in the opposite direction. With the strides that Woodruff has made if Burnes had become what we thought he could this team would be set for a stretch with high end starting pitching. Burnes failure is the single biggest negative of this season by far. What happened?? Any thoughts??

 

I've never understood where the idea that Woodruff ever struggled came from. I certainly didn't think that watching him and the box scores from 2017 and 2018 seem to validate that. One or two outings each year skewed the overall results. To me, that's just a young guy going through some bumps. Given time as he was this year, Woody was able to get it going. Remember, he didn't get off to a great start by any stretch this year.

 

As for Burnes, the kid needs to be sent down, ASAP. I don't care what he says, they are really running the risk of damaging his long term confidence by trotting him out there every other day. Can't ruin a guy with that much upside.

[benji]

I am no pitching mechanic expert, but to me it looks like he is over throwing trying to blow by people even his slider. He has lost command several times on 0-2 counts. Its not easy when its a mental hurdle to tell yourself to slow down. I struggle every time I golf with that

[JosephC]

Burnes is the poster-boy for everything that is wrong with the current state of MLB pitching.

 

"His velocity is up over 95 MPH and he's hitting 99 MPH occasionally on the radar gun. So there is nothing wrong with his fastball."

 

"He's still generating excellent swing-and-miss numbers and soft contract percentage numbers with his slider. So there is nothing wrong with his slider."

 

"He's struck out 67 hitters in 46 innings, so there is nothing wrong with him."

 

It's like the entire league has just decided to ignore that location is step #1 in making an effective MLB pitcher. And not simply location, consistent location. It seems like the approach around the league now is, "just throw it harder and the additional velocity will allow you to get away with more mistakes." That hasn't worked with Burnes.

[nate82]

Young players can be inconsistent. Burnes I expect will rebound from this and will be a better pitcher next year. If the Brewers are to be successful they need Woodruff, Burnes and Peralta to be the pitchers they should be.

[Jopal78]

Woodruff pretty much hit the ground running when he debuted in the major leagues in 2017. Since then he figured out how to put major league hitters away as his strikes out per 9 has gone up significantly, and his hits allowed per 9 has decreased. His walks and homeruns allowed per 9, however, have remained pretty constant since his debut.

 

Woodruff made 89 starts in the minor leagues, including72 starts before he debuted in the major leagues

 

Corbin Burnes on the other hand, made 45 starts in the minors total before debuting in the major leagues. Unlike Woodruff he has yet to figure out how to put major league hitters away, as evidenced in games like yesterday's many two strike counts resulted in the batter getting a hit. Perhaps the struggles from this season are attributable to Burnes being somewhat rushed to the major leagues before he was truly ready. With how he's been hammered at the major league level this year, I'm surprised he hasn't lost confidence in his abilities.

[rickh150]

Woodruff pretty much hit the ground running when he debuted in the major leagues in 2017. Since then he figured out how to put major league hitters away as his strikes out per 9 has gone up significantly, and his hits allowed per 9 has decreased. His walks and homeruns allowed per 9, however, have remained pretty constant since his debut.

 

Woodruff made 89 starts in the minor leagues, including72 starts before he debuted in the major leagues

 

Corbin Burnes on the other hand, made 45 starts in the minors total before debuting in the major leagues. Unlike Woodruff he has yet to figure out how to put major league hitters away, as evidenced in games like yesterday's many two strike counts resulted in the batter getting a hit. Perhaps the struggles from this season are attributable to Burnes being somewhat rushed to the major leagues before he was truly ready. With how he's been hammered at the major league level this year, I'm surprised he hasn't lost confidence in his abilities.

 

If he hasn't lost confidence yet, he isn't human.

[Oxy]

Burnes seems to be one of those guys that MLB hitters can see the ball well out of his hand and recognize pitches very well. It's just one of those unexplainable baseball things-- regardless of velocity, spin rate and trajectory. He doesn't get away with mistakes (at least this year. Who know what will happen next year).

 

It's very reminiscent of Manny Parra and Wily Peralta.

[TigerUppercut]

Burnes seems to be one of those guys that MLB hitters can see the ball well out of his hand and recognize pitches very well. It's just one of those unexplainable baseball things-- regardless of velocity, spin rate and trajectory. He doesn't get away with mistakes (at least this year. Who know what will happen next year).

 

It's very reminiscent of Manny Parra and Wily Peralta.

 

Part of me is left wondering if those "unexplainable baseball things" would have been explainable if Derek Johnson was still on the staff. Just sayin'.

[Thurston Fluff]

Woodruff pretty much hit the ground running when he debuted in the major leagues in 2017. Since then he figured out how to put major league hitters away as his strikes out per 9 has gone up significantly, and his hits allowed per 9 has decreased. His walks and homeruns allowed per 9, however, have remained pretty constant since his debut.

 

Woodruff made 89 starts in the minor leagues, including72 starts before he debuted in the major leagues

 

Corbin Burnes on the other hand, made 45 starts in the minors total before debuting in the major leagues. Unlike Woodruff he has yet to figure out how to put major league hitters away, as evidenced in games like yesterday's many two strike counts resulted in the batter getting a hit. Perhaps the struggles from this season are attributable to Burnes being somewhat rushed to the major leagues before he was truly ready. With how he's been hammered at the major league level this year, I'm surprised he hasn't lost confidence in his abilities.

 

That's where I'm at. Burnes just isn't as advanced as Woodruff is right now.

[wntrtxn21]

Woodruff pretty much hit the ground running when he debuted in the major leagues in 2017. Since then he figured out how to put major league hitters away as his strikes out per 9 has gone up significantly, and his hits allowed per 9 has decreased. His walks and homeruns allowed per 9, however, have remained pretty constant since his debut.

 

Woodruff made 89 starts in the minor leagues, including72 starts before he debuted in the major leagues

 

Corbin Burnes on the other hand, made 45 starts in the minors total before debuting in the major leagues. Unlike Woodruff he has yet to figure out how to put major league hitters away, as evidenced in games like yesterday's many two strike counts resulted in the batter getting a hit. Perhaps the struggles from this season are attributable to Burnes being somewhat rushed to the major leagues before he was truly ready. With how he's been hammered at the major league level this year, I'm surprised he hasn't lost confidence in his abilities.

 

That's where I'm at. Burnes just isn't as advanced as Woodruff is right now.

 

Houser has started far more games in the minors than Woodruff and he isn't nearly as advanced as Woodruff either. Despite what the tv people say, Houser has stunk as a starter so far. 6 starts -- 23 IPs -- 36 hits -- 20 ERs -- 6 HRs -- 10 BBs. Not as bad as Burnes, but still horrible. Despite the hype for both Burnes' and Houser's 4 pitch mix, neither has shown they can start in the big leagues and do the job.

[Brew crew 92]

Woodruff pretty much hit the ground running when he debuted in the major leagues in 2017. Since then he figured out how to put major league hitters away as his strikes out per 9 has gone up significantly, and his hits allowed per 9 has decreased. His walks and homeruns allowed per 9, however, have remained pretty constant since his debut.

 

Woodruff made 89 starts in the minor leagues, including72 starts before he debuted in the major leagues

 

Corbin Burnes on the other hand, made 45 starts in the minors total before debuting in the major leagues. Unlike Woodruff he has yet to figure out how to put major league hitters away, as evidenced in games like yesterday's many two strike counts resulted in the batter getting a hit. Perhaps the struggles from this season are attributable to Burnes being somewhat rushed to the major leagues before he was truly ready. With how he's been hammered at the major league level this year, I'm surprised he hasn't lost confidence in his abilities.

 

That's where I'm at. Burnes just isn't as advanced as Woodruff is right now.

 

Houser has started far more games in the minors than Woodruff and he isn't nearly as advanced as Woodruff either. Despite what the tv people say, Houser has stunk as a starter so far. 6 starts -- 23 IPs -- 36 hits -- 20 ERs -- 6 HRs -- 10 BBs. Not as bad as Burnes, but still horrible. Despite the hype for both Burnes' and Houser's 4 pitch mix, neither has shown they can start in the big leagues and do the job.

 

Houser is way ahead of Burnes, and now that he’s FINALLY stretched, pitched well vs the Braves. Houser has good command of his pitches, Burnes does not. No clue really why your comparing the two. But whatever.

[wntrtxn21]

I was trying to show that the number of minor lg. starts is not indicative of success in the major leagues. I disagree that Houser pitched well vs. the Braves. I guess it's a matter of semantics, but I don't believe allowing 8 hits and 4 runs in 6 innings is pitching well.

[DHonks]

Burnes is costing us nearly every time out. He needs to go to AAA and start in order to have innings to adjust. He has a bright future. Remember that until recently, Roy Halladay had a record for highest ERA in a season. He was sent to A ball and came back dominant

[Brew crew 92]

I was trying to show that the number of minor lg. starts is not indicative of success in the major leagues. I disagree that Houser pitched well vs. the Braves. I guess it's a matter of semantics, but I don't believe allowing 8 hits and 4 runs in 6 innings is pitching well.

 

Then you must not have been watching the game. 2 hard hit balls all night, and one of them should have been caught. Pitched 6 innings, and gave the team a chance to win the game. He’s now stretched out, so outside of the cardinals start early in the year, he finally has the stamina to pitch like a starter. Oh, and the 3 run home run he gave up to Freeman was a good pitch, Freeman just a great hitter.

[wntrtxn21]

I was trying to show that the number of minor lg. starts is not indicative of success in the major leagues. I disagree that Houser pitched well vs. the Braves. I guess it's a matter of semantics, but I don't believe allowing 8 hits and 4 runs in 6 innings is pitching well.

 

Then you must not have been watching the game. 2 hard hit balls all night, and one of them should have been caught. Pitched 6 innings, and gave the team a chance to win the game. He’s now stretched out, so outside of the cardinals start early in the year, he finally has the stamina to pitch like a starter. Oh, and the 3 run home run he gave up to Freeman was a good pitch, Freeman just a great hitter.

 

I guess it's a matter of what your definition of "hard hit" means, but I saw a lot more than 2 hard hit balls. I agree Braun misplayed the one over his head, but it was still hit hard. When you say he gave his team a chance to win, how many runs does a pitcher have to allow to NOT give his team a chance to win? What may be a good pitch to some hitters, is a bad pitch to others. Freeman loves the low ball. He is the prototypical lefty "golfer". He has been for his whole career. Years ago I saw him play a couple of times in Gwinnett and he had the big uppercut and feasted on the low ball there too. Freeman devours those types of pitches. If you saw his last AB he took a huge swing at a ball low and out of the zone and fouled it off. The bottom line is Houser allowed 8 hits and 4 runs in just 6 IPs. If he pitches 120 innings and allows 160 hits and 80 ERs, would that be considered pitching well or would he be back in the minors?

[jjfanec]

Burnes seems to be one of those guys that MLB hitters can see the ball well out of his hand and recognize pitches very well. It's just one of those unexplainable baseball things-- regardless of velocity, spin rate and trajectory. He doesn't get away with mistakes (at least this year. Who know what will happen next year).

 

It's very reminiscent of Manny Parra and Wily Peralta.

 

Yet even though people see his ball well he still strikes a ton of guys out. The weird thing is he wasn't as big of a strikeout guy last year as he has been this year

[Ennder]

At this point in the season Burnes is a 1 pitch pitcher, his slider is strong and everything else is garbage. Very few one pitch pitchers succeed. I don't know why his fastball has been such hot garbage this season but he can't' survive without it.

[OnTheBlack]

I was trying to show that the number of minor lg. starts is not indicative of success in the major leagues. I disagree that Houser pitched well vs. the Braves. I guess it's a matter of semantics, but I don't believe allowing 8 hits and 4 runs in 6 innings is pitching well.

 

 

I guess if you look at the final box score instead of the actual game, that's not a good line. If you watch the actual game without bias, that game he obviously threw the ball well. He left with Riley on after he reached on fly ball to Braun that should have been caught. And other than Freeman's shot, the Braves weren't getting good swings off him.

 

It's one start, it hardly means anything, but it's funny how the person who's a big fan of him thinks it's proof he's finally ready and the guy who has been bashing him...continues to bash him.

 

Clearly he threw the ball well and ended up with a line that wasn't indicative of how he threw the ball. But he'll have other starts to prove one of you right.

[Brew crew 92]

I was trying to show that the number of minor lg. starts is not indicative of success in the major leagues. I disagree that Houser pitched well vs. the Braves. I guess it's a matter of semantics, but I don't believe allowing 8 hits and 4 runs in 6 innings is pitching well.

 

 

I guess if you look at the final box score instead of the actual game, that's not a good line. If you watch the actual game without bias, that game he obviously threw the ball well. He left with Riley on after he reached on fly ball to Braun that should have been caught. And other than Freeman's shot, the Braves weren't getting good swings off him.

 

It's one start, it hardly means anything, but it's funny how the person who's a big fan of him thinks it's proof he's finally ready and the guy who has been bashing him...continues to bash him.

 

Clearly he threw the ball well and ended up with a line that wasn't indicative of how he threw the ball. But he'll have other starts to prove one of you right.

 

What I said is he’s finally STRETCHED to be a starter. But since he’s going back to the pen, it might be a while before he starts again. Next year he’s in the rotation.

[OnTheBlack]

Burnes is costing us nearly every time out. He needs to go to AAA and start in order to have innings to adjust. He has a bright future. Remember that until recently, Roy Halladay had a record for highest ERA in a season. He was sent to A ball and came back dominant

 

 

That's a good point. Halladay was either bad or really bad just about every time out that year whereas Burnes has had stretches where he's pitched well(short ones, but still some stretches).

 

I don't think it's because his fastball is easy to see or anything like that, I just think when you throw a fastball over the heart of the plate to big league hitters in hitters counts, they're going to hit the ball hard.

 

I still believe he'll be a good pitcher, but at least for his sake he should be pitching down in the minors until Sept. And only bring him back up then if he is pitching well.

[TJseven7]

I want Burnes in AAA until 2021. He's a starter, he's just not ready yet.

[pacopete4]

I want Burnes in AAA until 2021. He's a starter, he's just not ready yet.

 

I hope you mean 2020.

[adambr2]

I want Burnes in AAA until 2021. He's a starter, he's just not ready yet.

 

He seemed plenty ready last year both in the postseason and regular season. I just don't know what happened since then.