2019-07-14: Giants (Beede) at Brewers (Chacín) [Brewers lose, 8-3]

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

After Hader who is the Brewers best reliever? Claudio? Wow.

 

Peralta? The cupboard is pretty bare. I'd take JJ over Claudio, but it's closer than it should be.

 

Honestly, the best reliever after Hader is probably Houser. The fact that they have to continue starting him is depressing.

[treego14]

After Hader who is the Brewers best reliever? Claudio? Wow.

Donnie Hart! We just don’t know it, yet! He had an ERA of ZERO in 4 appearances for us this season!

[Bulldogboy]

In other news David Gruber has a purple brewers shirt on in that commercial doesn't he??

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Too much just went wrong. Knebel was the first thing and it just kept coming. This just hasn't been a case of needing Kimbrel or a SP. You can pretty much pick a spot and there's a problem. There aren't those one or or two things that I wish went differently, there are like 12. It's hard for me say fire this guy when that happens. I don't even feel very passionate about Stearns lack of action because I suspect he saw too many problems to give up anything substantial to fix one or two.

[treego14]

Action Jackson has some Japanese moves on the mound!

[adambr2]

 

For a very middling prospect, and they were able to get that because Bailey is essentially owed no money this year. I didn't say Chacin and Albers weren't tradeable. I said they were worth nothing.

 

Don't ever tell me to get a clue again.

 

If Chacin continues to pitch like he has the last 3-4 times out, he will have a solid amount of value at the deadline. Albers is obviously hit and miss, but if he goes on another run of good outings, his contract is cheap enough that he will have value as well.

 

Telling you to get a clue was definitely wrong. But I think in this case, saying those pitchers have no value is wrong as well.

 

And Bailey was dealt for a former 1st rounder and that A's 17th ranked prospect. That isn't middling.

 

I am amazed they got that for Bailey, even though it still isn't much in terms of top organizational talent. Middling, was probably the wrong word.

 

I stand by Albers and Chacin bringing back essentially nothing. 5 ERA starter/reliever rentals do not have a big market for buyers. In Albers' case he's already coming off a poor year and hurt by that. Chacin has a not particularly cheap salary, if you're getting back anything you're also dumping salary. If you were a buyer, especially knowing we have to take on salary too, would you give up anything of real value for these guys? Do the 2019 versions of Jhoulys Chacin and Matt Albers make any contender better?

 

I never said if we dumped them that they wouldn't get new teams so I don't know why he went spewing on about that, although frankly, they both would have a chance to clear waivers because of their salaries. Hernan Perez cleared, I wonder who would have called him worthless a month ago?

 

My point was never that they couldn't be dumped but they'll bring back total nothing burgers in terms of value and therefore shouldn't be lumped in with names like Grandal or Moustakas, that's all I was saying.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think you're dreaming if you think Chacin could clear waivers. A veteran SP who has shown ability to string together a lot of good baseball with decent big game experience. He's having a bad year, but there is no chance that would happen.

[RollieTime]

 

Stop with the sell BS...that is NOT going to happen. It just isn't. I don't want to see that brought up again. Mark A will never go for that and the fans would revolt. Period. End of story.

 

It could definitely happen, we are on a pretty long slide here, you will see it brought up again if they don't turn this around.

 

NOT going to happen..You think Mark A/Stearns want to try to explain to fans why they are selling?? They didn't sign Grandal/Moose in the off season to sell. MAYBE MAYBE if they are like 5-6 games back going into that last week..they might sell a minor piece or two, but more likely I'd bet they just play out the stretch with what they have.

 

That’s how a small market team like Milwaukee would end up in a long rebuild. The Brewers’ minors is weak and the big league club isn’t performing. They have a few valuable pieces on one year deals that could net some decent prospects. Being a middle of the road team, finishing a few games outside the playoffs, and letting the players walk away at the end of the season with nothing to show for it is a bigger wasted opportunity.

[Bulldogboy]

Too much just went wrong. Knebel was the first thing and it just kept coming. This just hasn't been a case of needing Kimbrel or a SP. You can pretty much pick a spot and there's a problem. There aren't those one or or two things that I wish went differently, there are like 12. It's hard for me say fire this guy when that happens. I don't even feel very passionate about Stearns lack of action because I suspect he saw too many problems to give up anything substantial to fix one or two.

I'm on board with this take however some of it was to be expected. Regression is a fact of life for guys like Chacin. If you think about it what was our pitching addition for the off season to help get us over the hump? There was none. Not one arm of any value was brought in to help. Even after Knebel went down. That's the shame of it. They didn't really ever give it a go.

[HarveysWBs]

I am stunned at how frequently AAA results has absolutely zero bearing on major-league success, especially for our pitchers. And it goes both ways! Hader and Burnes had horrible numbers in AAA (granted, it was Colorado) and were good when called up. All these guys we shuffle back and forth from AAA have great numbers on the farm, and then they all seem to blow chunks when they come up. It’s astounding.

[BarneyStinston]

In other news David Gruber has a purple brewers shirt on in that commercial doesn't he??

 

It's just a sweat faded jersey after chasing all those ambulances.

[treego14]

I am stunned at how frequently AAA results has absolutely zero bearing on major-league success, especially for our pitchers. And it goes both ways! Hader and Burnes had horrible numbers in AAA (granted, it was Colorado) and were good when called up. All these guys we shuffle back and forth from AAA have great numbers, and they all seem to blow chunks when they come up. It’s astounding.

Not Donnie Hart!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

For a very middling prospect, and they were able to get that because Bailey is essentially owed no money this year. I didn't say Chacin and Albers weren't tradeable. I said they were worth nothing.

 

Don't ever tell me to get a clue again.

 

If Chacin continues to pitch like he has the last 3-4 times out, he will have a solid amount of value at the deadline. Albers is obviously hit and miss, but if he goes on another run of good outings, his contract is cheap enough that he will have value as well.

 

Telling you to get a clue was definitely wrong. But I think in this case, saying those pitchers have no value is wrong as well.

 

And Bailey was dealt for a former 1st rounder and that A's 17th ranked prospect. That isn't middling.

 

I am amazed they got that for Bailey, even though it still isn't much in terms of top organizational talent. Middling, was probably the wrong word.

 

I stand by Albers and Chacin bringing back essentially nothing. 5 ERA starter/reliever rentals do not have a big market for buyers. In Albers' case he's already coming off a poor year and hurt by that. Chacin has a not particularly cheap salary, if you're getting back anything you're also dumping salary. If you were a buyer, especially knowing we have to take on salary too, would you give up anything of real value for these guys? Do the 2019 versions of Jhoulys Chacin and Matt Albers make any contender better?

 

I never said if we dumped them that they wouldn't get new teams so I don't know why he went spewing on about that, although frankly, they both would have a chance to clear waivers because of their salaries. Hernan Perez cleared, I wonder who would have called him worthless a month ago?

 

My point was never that they couldn't be dumped but they'll bring back total nothing burgers in terms of value and therefore shouldn't be lumped in with names like Grandal or Moustakas, that's all I was saying.

 

I guess I just disagree. No harm in that. I think if Chacin continues to pitch well, the Brewers will get back a solid prospect for him. Dependable starting pitching is always valuable, and Chacin has enough of a track record that teams will look past his first half struggles if he puts up a few more good outings before the deadline. The remainder of his salary isn't going to be an issue.

 

Albers is a tougher sell, but if he pitches well over the next two weeks, I think he brings something better than a nothingburger too.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think Chacin's value is probably somewhere between Perez and Grandal. A contending team in need of an arm would claim him in a millisecond.

[BruisedCrew]

I’m glad I wasn’t home today to watch the Giants join the Marlins, Mariners, and Padres on the list of teams that have embarrassed the Brewers as they continue their descent to and below .500.

 

Because my daughter who lives in Florida wants to see one more Brewer game before she heads back I’m going to sacrifice my perfect record for the season tomorrow to see the Brewers whacked around by the first winning team they’ve played in over a month. Because I sold my tickets for a gamemin the Cubs series for 3 times face value I have a nice pot of cash to spend on food seats for tomorrow. By the time we go to another game in August there should be no pretense of this team being a playoff contender.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I’m glad I wasn’t home today to watch the Giants join the Marlins, Mariners, and Padres on the list of teams that have embarrassed the Brewers as they continue their descent to and below .500.

 

Because my daughter who lives in Florida wants to see one more Brewer game before she heads back I’m going to sacrifice my perfect record for the season tomorrow to see the Brewers whacked around by the first winning team they’ve played in over a month. Because I sold my tickets for a gamemin the Cubs series for 3 times face value I have a nice pot of cash to spend on food seats for tomorrow. By the time we go to another game in August there should be no pretense of this team being a playoff contender.

 

Um, good for you?

 

Sorry, just not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this post? Do you want all other posters to agree with you that the Brewers are done? Cause that may be coming, but I'm just not there yet.

[adambr2]

I think you're dreaming if you think Chacin could clear waivers. A veteran SP who has shown ability to string together a lot of good baseball with decent big game experience. He's having a bad year, but there is no chance that would happen.

 

Ok, let's talk it out as a real life scenario.

 

We place Chacin on waivers. Any team claiming Jhoulys Chacin owes him over $3.25M for the rest of 2019. Chacin has a FIP near 6 and an ERA of 5.18, and a WHIP of 1.50 for the season.

 

Which contender is making that claim and picking up that tab? The sellers aren't going to, because that's just a waste of their money. Contenders are likely in the market for better options than that. Who is paying $3.25M for a 2 and a half month rental of that?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Going to be an interesting off-season, that's for sure. I believe this season was the one most people targeted for our original rebuild taking shape a couple years ago. Suddenly feels like we have to do it again. I wouldn't even know where to start if I'm Stearns. And you loose Moose and Grandal. Yikes.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think you're dreaming if you think Chacin could clear waivers. A veteran SP who has shown ability to string together a lot of good baseball with decent big game experience. He's having a bad year, but there is no chance that would happen.

 

Ok, let's talk it out as a real life scenario.

 

We place Chacin on waivers. Any team claiming Jhoulys Chacin owes him over $3.25M for the rest of 2019. Chacin has a FIP near 6 and an ERA of 5.18, and a WHIP of 1.50 for the season.

 

Which contender is making that claim and picking up that tab? The sellers aren't going to, because that's just a waste of their money. Contenders are likely in the market for better options than that. Who is paying $3.25M for a 2 and a half month rental of that?

 

For a playoff tested pitcher who has put up a month of good starts prior to the waiver claim? I would imagine most of them.

 

Gio Gonzalez certainly wasn't setting the world on fire when he was dealt last year, and the Brewers were happy to get him, and gave up value to do so.

[HarveysWBs]

I am stunned at how frequently AAA results has absolutely zero bearing on major-league success, especially for our pitchers. And it goes both ways! Hader and Burnes had horrible numbers in AAA (granted, it was Colorado) and were good when called up. All these guys we shuffle back and forth from AAA have great numbers, and they all seem to blow chunks when they come up. It’s astounding.

Not Donnie Hart!

 

And now Jackson just lowered his ERA by like 4 whole runs! Who else can I reverse jinx?

 

Yelich and Hader have plateaued.

Braun and Cain are washed up.

Shaw and Burnes will only be AAAA players going forward.

Woodruff is a flash in the pan.

Nelson will never throw another pitch in the majors again.

Arica stinks on both sides of the ball.

Hiura will only make us miss Weeks even more.

Knebel will return next year and never regain any semblance of control, especially of his off-speed pitches.

Stearns will win a World Series with the Mets in the next 5 years.

We’ll fire Counsell in the next two years and he’ll win Jeter a championship in Miami.

 

Did I forget anyone?

[mtrebs]

I think you're dreaming if you think Chacin could clear waivers. A veteran SP who has shown ability to string together a lot of good baseball with decent big game experience. He's having a bad year, but there is no chance that would happen.

 

Ok, let's talk it out as a real life scenario.

 

We place Chacin on waivers. Any team claiming Jhoulys Chacin owes him over $3.25M for the rest of 2019. Chacin has a FIP near 6 and an ERA of 5.18, and a WHIP of 1.50 for the season.

 

Which contender is making that claim and picking up that tab? The sellers aren't going to, because that's just a waste of their money. Contenders are likely in the market for better options than that. Who is paying $3.25M for a 2 and a half month rental of that?

 

$3.25 million is nothing in the MLB. If someone thinks there’s value that can help them make the postseason, they’d spend that in a minute.

 

Edit: However $4.5 million was too much for Stearns this off-season for Miley, and we’ve been struggling with starters all season.

[Bulldogboy]

I think you're dreaming if you think Chacin could clear waivers. A veteran SP who has shown ability to string together a lot of good baseball with decent big game experience. He's having a bad year, but there is no chance that would happen.

 

Ok, let's talk it out as a real life scenario.

 

We place Chacin on waivers. Any team claiming Jhoulys Chacin owes him over $3.25M for the rest of 2019. Chacin has a FIP near 6 and an ERA of 5.18, and a WHIP of 1.50 for the season.

 

Which contender is making that claim and picking up that tab? The sellers aren't going to, because that's just a waste of their money. Contenders are likely in the market for better options than that. Who is paying $3.25M for a 2 and a half month rental of that?

The fact is people were shocked when Perez wasn't claimed. Teams are not blowing cash unless the guy moves the needle. Not sure Chacin does it for anyone to pay that money.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think you're dreaming if you think Chacin could clear waivers. A veteran SP who has shown ability to string together a lot of good baseball with decent big game experience. He's having a bad year, but there is no chance that would happen.

 

Ok, let's talk it out as a real life scenario.

 

We place Chacin on waivers. Any team claiming Jhoulys Chacin owes him over $3.25M for the rest of 2019. Chacin has a FIP near 6 and an ERA of 5.18, and a WHIP of 1.50 for the season.

 

Which contender is making that claim and picking up that tab? The sellers aren't going to, because that's just a waste of their money. Contenders are likely in the market for better options than that. Who is paying $3.25M for a 2 and a half month rental of that?

 

Every team in baseball isn't going to make a decision based on his 2019 stats. A team for whom $3 million is peanuts is going to see a chance to make a claim and give up nothing for a guy who at times has been a pretty good SP and has playoff experience.

 

I can't believe you're that serious about this. There is not a chance he'd clear waivers. I get everyone is upset how the season is going, but come on.

[BarneyStinston]

Alberts is hot and cold, and cold much of the time. He's overpaid as well. Someone might take him for a middle level prospect if you paid off his salary.

[Bulldogboy]

Going to be an interesting off-season, that's for sure. I believe this season was the one most people targeted for our original rebuild taking shape a couple years ago. Suddenly feels like we have to do it again. I wouldn't even know where to start if I'm Stearns. And you loose Moose and Grandal. Yikes.

Get Braun to take a front office role. Free up the cash. Build around Yelich Hader Hiura and Woodruff. Maybe Davies. After that it's a mess. Cain deal only going to get worse.