MLB Players are furious over economic system! Can you believe this?

[Jopal78]

None of us have any idea how much the Brewers or any other team can afford in payroll. Your own recognition that the team value has skyrocketed during Attanasio's ownership suggests that they could have afforded more in payroll during that time.

 

Thank you for your voice of reason.

 

You're correct but you miss the point, I doubt any owner who has bought a team in the last 20 years is taking a draw of salary as the CEO. They're all beyond rich to begin with. Its a joke to think Attanasio (who's Crescent Capital Group manages over 25 billion dollars in assets) is somehow lining his pockets with tens of millions of dollars that could be spent in payroll.

 

The Brewers have the worst market in the major leagues. Two legacy MLB teams 100 miles to the south. The Twins 5 hours to the Northwest. Hemmed in by a lake on the East and North sides. With another legacy team the Tigers on the other side of Lake Michigan and a foreign country on the other side of Lake Superior. Their market is basically Wisconsin and the U.P. and perhaps north eastern Iowa. There just isn't a lot of people in their market, so just because revenue is up in the game generally, doesn't necessarily mean the Brewers wallet is extra fat.

[homer]

That 94 strike was as much about what was going on at the time as it was about 30 years of mistrust between the players and owners. Fay Vincent was fired because he figured out the owners were colluding against free agents.

[homer]

Make every player a free agent at the end of every season.

[JimH5]

None of us have any idea how much the Brewers or any other team can afford in payroll. Your own recognition that the team value has skyrocketed during Attanasio's ownership suggests that they could have afforded more in payroll during that time.

 

Thank you for your voice of reason.

 

You're correct but you miss the point, I doubt any owner who has bought a team in the last 20 years is taking a draw of salary as the CEO. They're all beyond rich to begin with. Its a joke to think Attanasio (who's Crescent Capital Group manages over 25 billion dollars in assets) is somehow lining his pockets with tens of millions of dollars that could be spent in payroll.

 

The Brewers have the worst market in the major leagues. Two legacy MLB teams 100 miles to the south. The Twins 5 hours to the Northwest. Hemmed in by a lake on the East and North sides. With another legacy team the Tigers on the other side of Lake Michigan and a foreign country on the other side of Lake Superior. Their market is basically Wisconsin and the U.P. and perhaps north eastern Iowa. There just isn't a lot of people in their market, so just because revenue is up in the game generally, doesn't necessarily mean the Brewers wallet is extra fat.

 

Jeter is drawing a $5 million salary (plus a bonus for profit incentives) as CEO of the Marlins.

 

And the Brewers franchise value is up nearly $1 Billion since Attanasio bought it, despite market size. Franchise values are up all over the place and player salaries are down. Players don't like that, so they want changes.

[wntrtxn21]

I agree Briggs. Pitching has become some dominant it actually is hurting the game. Seeing a starter who throws 95+ throw 5 innings and then a full pen of guys throwing 95+ seems pretty common these days. Not sure the game was ever meant to be played that way. Not sure what the solution is though, move back the mound a couple feet?

 

For the most part hitters have adjusted to the increased speed. Granted there are guys with speed and a good breaking ball that dominate, but those guys aren't prevalent. Pitching dominates because the modern day player wants to hit the long ball on every swing. Players used to dread striking out. Now they swing for the fences no matter what the count and situation. The batting average is overlooked for the bomb. Putting the ball in play, moving a runner over, taking a walk to put a RISP is no longer admired. Launch angles, exit velocity, dinger distance, and whiffs have replaced basehits, batting average, and critical RBIs.

[Brew crew 92]

April 10, 2017 Wiscnews article by Tom Oats

 

Mark Attanasio:

 

When asked if the team would bank $ saved during the low payroll years to spend when competitive:

 

“ when we are ready to compete again or compete very seriously again, any dollars that we save now can be used then”.

 

Why do we put up with empty words?

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

All I’ve heard from everyone on this site is how great an owner we have.

 

Why is he a “great owner”?

Is it because we’re comparing him to Wendy Selig-Prieb?

I think so. Low bar to be sure.

 

He bought this club from one of the most inept owners in baseball history, imo.

 

Among Attanasio ‘s attributes is he’s a fantastic salesman. Great speaker, relatable to us fans and media. A good salesman persuade’s others to agree with his viewpoint.

 

For 50 years, we as brewer fans, have had to put up with massive bias from the large city big market media, ignored, mocked even, for chronic losing, one WS appearance, but still, we fans of the brewers, overperform our market size to such an extreme, it’s really quite amazing, but in MY OPINION, we’re being TAKEN FOR GRANTED.

 

All I want as a rabid life long fan of this team is to have an owner that puts his $ where his mouth is.

 

Remember his words: “when we are ready to compete again or compete very seriously again, any dollars that we save now can be used then”.

[homer]

When Attanasio made that quote their payroll was under $80 million. It is now over $120 million.

[pacopete4]

April 10, 2017 Wiscnews article by Tom Oats

 

Mark Attanasio:

 

When asked if the team would bank $ saved during the low payroll years to spend when competitive:

 

“ when we are ready to compete again or compete very seriously again, any dollars that we save now can be used then”.

 

Why do we put up with empty words?

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

All I’ve heard from everyone on this site is how great an owner we have.

 

Why is he a “great owner”?

Is it because we’re comparing him to Wendy Selig-Prieb?

I think so. Low bar to be sure.

 

He bought this club from one of the most inept owners in baseball history, imo.

 

Among Attanasio ‘s attributes is he’s a fantastic salesman. Great speaker, relatable to us fans and media. A good salesman persuade’s others to agree with his viewpoint.

 

For 50 years, we as brewer fans, have had to put up with massive bias from the large city big market media, ignored, mocked even, for chronic losing, one WS appearance, but still, we fans of the brewers, overperform our market size to such an extreme, it’s really quite amazing, but in MY OPINION, we’re being TAKEN FOR GRANTED.

 

All I want as a rabid life long fan of this team is to have an owner that puts his $ where his mouth is.

 

Remember his words: “when we are ready to compete again or compete very seriously again, any dollars that we save now can be used then”.

 

Brewers have went from a $60ish million payroll to $125ish million payroll since he has said that in 2017...

 

I think you are the one that needs educating. But hey, that’s just an opinion.

[homer]

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

Your martyrdom act is growing REALLY tiresome. Particularly since you simply ignore all facts that run counter to your argument (which seems to be based solely off estimates in the Forbes article). Please do not inject this into every thread related to money and salaries. There's one thread for that sort of thing. Failure to do so with result in a ban.

[RollieTime]

You also fail to realize that they only were rebuilding for 2 seasons (15 and 16) where their payroll was still roughly $100 million from aging vets and expensive players. The payroll was only really slashed for one season (2017) and the Brewers ended up having a good season that year, signaling their “rebuild” was essentially already over. So his one year of having a low payroll isn’t an extended period where he pocketed tens of millions of dollars year after year. It was one single season of a very low payroll. The payroll is at an all-time high already and up almost FORTY million from the start of the 2018 season.

 

But why listen to facts when you can spit your opinion in every single thread over and over again as fact, trolling the entire board, and derail every thread.

[PeaveyFury]

April 10, 2017 Wiscnews article by Tom Oats

 

Mark Attanasio:

 

When asked if the team would bank $ saved during the low payroll years to spend when competitive:

 

“ when we are ready to compete again or compete very seriously again, any dollars that we save now can be used then”.

 

Why do we put up with empty words?

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

All I’ve heard from everyone on this site is how great an owner we have.

 

Why is he a “great owner”?

Is it because we’re comparing him to Wendy Selig-Prieb?

I think so. Low bar to be sure.

 

He bought this club from one of the most inept owners in baseball history, imo.

 

Among Attanasio ‘s attributes is he’s a fantastic salesman. Great speaker, relatable to us fans and media. A good salesman persuade’s others to agree with his viewpoint.

 

For 50 years, we as brewer fans, have had to put up with massive bias from the large city big market media, ignored, mocked even, for chronic losing, one WS appearance, but still, we fans of the brewers, overperform our market size to such an extreme, it’s really quite amazing, but in MY OPINION, we’re being TAKEN FOR GRANTED.

 

All I want as a rabid life long fan of this team is to have an owner that puts his $ where his mouth is.

 

Remember his words: “when we are ready to compete again or compete very seriously again, any dollars that we save now can be used then”.

 

I'll just say that I pretty much disagree with everything stated in this post, while agreeing with everything Jim stated in this one:

 

I don't have a problem with Attanasio investing back into the franchise. He didn't just pocket the money.

 

I also don't have a problem with players exercising their rights to do better for themselves. They should take the best deal they can get.

 

If teams aren't going to spend on players in their 30s, then players should try to get more in their 20s.

[MrTPlush]

Why do we put up with empty words?

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

 

But really you provided no information to back your viewpoint. Okay...Attansio said the saved money would be put into the team in the future when they are competing. But how much was saved? How much are we possibly over now? Was all that saved money going into one year? Five? Lorenzo Cain...is he here because of the saved money?

 

See the problem is there is no way to know what exactly they are doing because none of us are in their front office or in accounting...we can say what we think forever, but we could be somewhat right or totally off the map and not even know it. It is an endless argument because no one will ever be proven right because there is no way to find out...none. Why have an endless argument?

 

Of course I see the value of the franchise brought up a lot...but a lot of that is reflective because of how expensive expansion teams in sports go for these days, inflation, and how crazy people overpay to get a team in the rare chance one becomes publicly available for purchase. That isn't necessarily indictive of increased profits/revenues...at least not completely.

[Brew crew 92]

You also fail to realize that they only were rebuilding for 2 seasons (15 and 16) where their payroll was still roughly $100 million from aging vets and expensive players. The payroll was only really slashed for one season (2017) and the Brewers ended up having a good season that year, signaling their “rebuild” was essentially already over. So his one year of having a low payroll isn’t an extended period where he pocketed tens of millions of dollars year after year. It was one single season of a very low payroll. The payroll is at an all-time high already and up almost FORTY million from the start of the 2018 season.

 

But why listen to facts when you can spit your opinion in every single thread over and over again as fact, trolling the entire board, and derail every thread.

 

2016 payroll > 62

2017 payroll > 68

 

2 years of an extremely low payroll not one. 140+ million in gross profit. Then add the 75-85 million in Gross profit for 2018.

 

So when is the banked $ really gonna be invested in payroll?

[homer]

You also fail to realize that they only were rebuilding for 2 seasons (15 and 16) where their payroll was still roughly $100 million from aging vets and expensive players. The payroll was only really slashed for one season (2017) and the Brewers ended up having a good season that year, signaling their “rebuild” was essentially already over. So his one year of having a low payroll isn’t an extended period where he pocketed tens of millions of dollars year after year. It was one single season of a very low payroll. The payroll is at an all-time high already and up almost FORTY million from the start of the 2018 season.

 

But why listen to facts when you can spit your opinion in every single thread over and over again as fact, trolling the entire board, and derail every thread.

 

2016 payroll > 62

2017 payroll > 68

 

2 years of an extremely low payroll not one. 140+ million in gross profit. Then add the 75-85 million in Gross profit for 2018.

 

So when is the banked $ really gonna be invested in payroll?

 

 

Read my post from the last page. Stop posting this argument in multiple threads.

[pacopete4]

You also fail to realize that they only were rebuilding for 2 seasons (15 and 16) where their payroll was still roughly $100 million from aging vets and expensive players. The payroll was only really slashed for one season (2017) and the Brewers ended up having a good season that year, signaling their “rebuild” was essentially already over. So his one year of having a low payroll isn’t an extended period where he pocketed tens of millions of dollars year after year. It was one single season of a very low payroll. The payroll is at an all-time high already and up almost FORTY million from the start of the 2018 season.

 

But why listen to facts when you can spit your opinion in every single thread over and over again as fact, trolling the entire board, and derail every thread.

 

2016 payroll > 62

2017 payroll > 68

 

2 years of an extremely low payroll not one. 140+ million in gross profit. Then add the 75-85 million in Gross profit for 2018.

 

So when is the banked $ really gonna be invested in payroll?

 

According to my calculations they lost money those years and MA has went into his piggy bank to keep the team in Milwaukee.

 

See how easy it is to throw crap against the wall?

[Brew crew 92]

Why do we put up with empty words?

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

 

But really you provided no information to back your viewpoint. Okay...Attansio said the saved money would be put into the team in the future when they are competing. But how much was saved? How much are we possibly over now? Was all that saved money going into one year? Five? Lorenzo Cain...is he here because of the saved money?

 

See the problem is there is no way to know what exactly they are doing because none of us are in their front office or in accounting...we can say what we think forever, but we could be somewhat right or totally off the map and not even know it. It is an endless argument because no one will ever be proven right because there is no way to find out...none. Why have an endless argument?

 

Of course I see the value of the franchise brought up a lot...but a lot of that is reflective because of how expensive expansion teams in sports go for these days, inflation, and how crazy people overpay to get a team in the rare chance one becomes publicly available for purchase. That isn't necessarily indictive of increased profits/revenues...at least not completely.

 

No one knows the net profit but THE BREWERS. But we can assume and guesstimate to infer.

 

2016 & 2017 gross profit > 140

2018 gross profit > 75-85 > 80

 

Lowest debt % < 5

 

We can infer that the brewers made a healthy net profit during these years, so again:

 

When is this banked $ going to be invested in payroll?

 

What could Stearns do with an extra 50 million in payroll next year?

[tmwiese55]

Owner says they'll us the banked money to compete. Rebuild end in 2017. Hands out the largest FA contract in team history and increased payroll to what 110ish last year. Next year, signs two FAs for about 30ish mil and ups payroll to 125-130 this year, by far the largest in team history. Seems to me he did exactly what he said. But I guess I'm just crazy and a head in the sand idiot.

[Brew crew 92]

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

Your martyrdom act is growing REALLY tiresome. Particularly since you simply ignore all facts that run counter to your argument (which seems to be based solely off estimates in the Forbes article). Please do not inject this into every thread related to money and salaries. There's one thread for that sort of thing. Failure to do so with result in a ban.

 

Ok

[OldSchoolSnapper]

So much complaining and expecting more. Minor league baseball is not a necessity to life. If you got a family to support, tough cookies...you made that decision and if it makes MiLB life hard then quit. Many people in everyday life (heck everyone) has to make tough decisions from time to time and might not do something they want to.

 

Who honestly is complaining about MiLB salaries down there? The next Mike Trout? No, it is life long career MiLB players. Leave if it isn't good enough, just like anyone in a normal job would. The supply of people to be MiLB filler greatly exceeds demand so there won't be big salary increases.

 

At least they get paid something for that opportunity. Many interns still work for free as slaves...most normal people go to college for four years, can't completely focus while there (part time job), and go $30,000+ in debt. Opportunities have costs, MiLB is an opportunity...not a job.

 

Hard to disagree. What I do have an issue with is how long it takes stellar players to get what they deserve. And yes, I understand the minimums are a generous salary to the average person, but the fact is that these aren't average people, and if the owner is able to start you on a major league squad and you smash 40 homers, then yes, I do believe he should have to pay you what is fair. And fair to me at that level is not 500k.

[tmwiese55]

While an overhaul to the player pay structure is needed and I agree with. The bigger point here about competitive balance and teams trying to win etc needs to be addressed in cap and revenue sharing structure as well. Any reform to the player system should go hand in hand with team structures to have balance and competitiveness among teams. You can't really put in a rule like players get X amount of revenue when each team is operating on it's own revenue, all the money has to be put in one pot first before it can get divided out and have a real and productive negotiation on how much the players should get. I know others here have laid it out in more detail pretty much exactly what I'm saying, so I guess I'm just saying I agree with them

[homer]

I’ve been crushed by many on this site for my opposite opinion regarding the brewers low payroll, and my lack of information provided to back up my opinion. Then when I provide said info in multiple threads I still get knee jerk mocking of my viewpoint, I believe people would be better served by educating themselves about the actual reality’s of this teams massive revenue streams, and this owners spoken words to us fans AND media.

 

Your martyrdom act is growing REALLY tiresome. Particularly since you simply ignore all facts that run counter to your argument (which seems to be based solely off estimates in the Forbes article). Please do not inject this into every thread related to money and salaries. There's one thread for that sort of thing. Failure to do so with result in a ban.

 

Ok

 

Thank you.

[pacopete4]

Would getting to arbitration sooner but it lasting longer help? It would allow teams like the Brewers to still control a player but all teams would start to have pay some of these young bucks that are breaking out.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Would getting to arbitration sooner but it lasting longer help? It would allow teams like the Brewers to still control a player but all teams would start to have pay some of these young bucks that are breaking out.

 

This is what I think is best. Arbitration is one thing baseball does mostly right. Sort of merit based raises. It just seems that it takes way too long. If you're a late-pick that ends up being really good, you can already be old enough that teams might view age as a concern by the time you hit FA for the first time. Or at the very least, your best stuff is behind you already.

[tmwiese55]

IMO the last two posts are the biggest area that needs to be addressed for the players perspective. One hting that's popped into my head is somde kind of merit based thing to move up arby (possibly FA with it). Something like post season awards to kick start it, MVP, gold gloves, silver slugger, whatever you can come up with, maybe being in top 5 or top 10 of MVP voting, etc. Khris Bryant for example wins MVP in his 2nd year, yea he shouldn't be making 500K anymore.

[Brew crew 92]

Peter Gammons idea is a simple one:

 

Raise The min Pre-Arby Salary to somewhere between 1-2 million, thus getting an extra 2-3 mil. Into the players hands earlier. That would also raise the players % of revenue to closer to what it was prior to the last labor deal.